ACTA to be signed tomorrow by gov.

quietriot

Kirby wrote: »

Mate, I've had a look at your posts in After Hours in the last few minutes and I would wind it back a bit.

Between this thread, the "Was Jesus a Gay" and "Do we actually have complete 'freedom' " threads you are heading for trouble. It is possible to be polite while debating a point.

Personally, I feel there is a large difference between a simple youtube video that may infringe copyright and pirating 20 million copies of a movie. You seem to cling to your legislation and let that guide your morals. I don't agree.

Ok so what you're saying is, "You're right, I'm wrong, but instead of admitting it and thanking you for the information, I'll sit here and attempt to insult you and derail the topic".

Good for you. You're welcome for the info by the way. Luckily it's free online and I didn't have to infringe on people's copyright or pirate the content to show you it.

I cling to legislation and morals to back up a point about LAW?! OH NO! I use facts? What a f*cking bastard I am, eh? Your opinion has no weight in law buddy, facts are facts and if you can't admit that and deal with it then head over to somalia or similar where the law, fact and moral don't appear to hold much weight.

You tried to "prove me wrong" using your gut feeling and nothing else, I've shown to you using fact and legislation, as well as a bit of history about it, why you're wrong. If you can't accept that then f*ck off over to the conspiracy theorists where gut feeling dominates everything while fact and logic is left to the wayside.

Darius.Tr

Jesus the two of you have been arguing about this for a few hours now
It's clear that piracy and copyright infringement is one and the same thing, the "It often refers to copying without the creator's written permission."
This clearly explains it, that even in youtube video, you would be copying someone elses song without their permision, and sharing with other...so people who are watching it cam easily download it and share with their friends.

quietriot

Darius.Tr wrote: »

Jesus the two of you have been arguing about this for a few hours now
It's clear that piracy and copyright infringement is one and the same thing, the "It often refers to copying without the creator's written permission."
This clearly explains it, that even in youtube video, you would be copying someone elses song without their permision, and sharing with other...so people who are watching it cam easily download it and share with their friends.

It's unfortunate isn't it? There's really no need for an argument when everything is there factually in plain text for all to see, yet some people feel that their own opinions or gut feeling on matters holds more weight than the law, facts or moral code combined and just can't seem to deal with it.

In this case they even tried to derail the topic just to try to deflect themselves from having to face that fact that they're wrong. Crazy really but there you go, no matter how much evidence and truth you show someone, they'll still insist that theory inside their head is correct and that everyone else is plain wrong.

One of the things that makes life interesting I say Seems to be frighteningly common on After Hours forum though, I mean a few times tonight already someone has made an ignorant, outlandish statement, I've provided them with a reasoned, logical answer and I've received abuse or more raving nonsense in response. It's unfortunate but again, no matter how much evidence and reality you actually show someone, some will just never be able to deal with it inside.

Kirby

Hours? I started posting 20 mins ago. He's been ranting for a while though.

And it isn't "gut" as you call it quietriot. It's morality. You may need the government to direct your life and tell you whats right and wrong, I was raised correctly. I know it already.

LighterGuy

Agree 100% Kirby

quietriot

Kirby wrote: »

Hours? I started posting 20 mins ago. He's been ranting for a while though.

And it isn't "gut" as you call it quietriot. It's morality. You may need the government to direct your life and tell you whats right and wrong, I was raised correctly. I know it already.

You were raised extremely poorly if you were taught to disregard fact and the law of the land for whatever you felt was right.

At the end of the day, you're wrong here and I'm right, or I should say, the law and my interpretation of it is right.

Don't give me this absolute crap, "you might need the government to direct my life", I absolutely do not. We do, however, need the government to enact law in society to prevent people like you, who feel they're above it and may interpret it however they wish, going unpunished.

It's not open to interpretation either. This isn't a passage in the bible. This is law. It's written very plainly and the definition of "piracy" has changed over time to keep up with this law, now referring to the infringement of copyright.

Listen, I know it can be hard to admit defeat or being wrong on something, especially after just telling someone you would "explain simply and succinctly how you are wrong and haven't got the foggiest idea about what this discussion is about.", we all have our pride, but to sit here instead and fling vacuous accusations at me is just hilarious, but absolutely pathetic.

Get over yourself Kirby, this isn't the first time you've been wrong and it won't be the last either. As I said, if you really believe the law is open to interpretation then head over to an essentially lawless country like Somalia and see how great life is there. If not, adhere to fact and enjoy what is a fairly decent society.

If you've nothing else to say on the matter except fling personal crap at me in an effort to heal your own bruised ego then I bid you goodnight. I am sure that you're petty enough that even though you've actually nothing else to add, you'll still try to get the last word in. Tip: Don't bother. You've made a big enough clown of yourself already.

Darius.Tr

Well we were not talking about whats right and whats wrong, we discussing about the difference between copyright infringement and piracy...until we finaly decided that its pretty much one and the same thing.

quietriot

Darius.Tr wrote: »

Well we were not talking about whats right and whats wrong, we discussing about the difference between copyright infringement and piracy...until we finaly decided that its pretty much one and the same thing.

Yep, case closed really.

Kirby

Darius.Tr wrote: »

Well we were not talking about whats right and whats wrong, we discussing about the difference between copyright infringement and piracy...until we finaly decided that its pretty much one and the same thing.

You may have decided that, but many would disagree....myself included. Lumping them together might make it easier for some, but that doesn't make it right.

Are you really suggesting that some kid who sings a cover tune of Lady GaGa on youtube is the same as the guy who uses Torrents to allows everyone to download her latest album?

Really? It's "pretty much one and the same thing"?

AlmightyCushion

Kirby wrote: »

You may have decided that, but many would disagree....myself included. Lumping them together might make it easier for some, but that doesn't make it right.

Are you really suggesting that some kid who sings a cover tune of Lady GaGa on youtube is the same as the guy who uses Torrents to allows everyone to download her latest album?

Really? It's "pretty much one and the same thing"?

It's the same name, just different degrees of it. Whether someone steals a bag of crisps or a shipment of crisps worth millions it's still theft. Obviously, one is more serious than the other.

cocoshovel

So now what? We just accept it? Is there really anything we can do to stop it? Im ****ing píssed off but I dont have the damn time to do anything about it.

Pherekydes

Dannyboi3k wrote: »

Hmm.. guess everyones laptop/ipod/iphone/mp3 player/PC etc is gonna be nabbed so.

Why? What's on my device that's unauthorised?

Looks like I have to get the blue ribbon out again.

the groutch

oh no! now where will I illegally download off the internet? :rolleyes:

#firstworldproblems

120_Minutes

Copyright infringement and/or piracy is but a smokescreen here. This is and always has been about control.

Control over what we're allowed to see and consume on the Internet.

humanji

120_Minutes wrote: »

Copyright infringement and/or piracy is but a smokescreen here. This is and always has been about control.

Control over what we're allowed to see and consume on the Internet.

No, it's about copyright. It's what happens when people who don't understand technology (our government) are informed by those who lose out because of technology (the record/film companies etc).

The Irish government don't need to control the internet because the Irish people mean nothing to them. Not once during this current administration has the government listened to the wants of the people. They don't need to control the people as they can happily continue their lives by ignoring the people.

krudler

quietriot wrote: »

Ok so what you're saying is, "You're right, I'm wrong, but instead of admitting it and thanking you for the information, I'll sit here and attempt to insult you and derail the topic".

Good for you. You're welcome for the info by the way. Luckily it's free online and I didn't have to infringe on people's copyright or pirate the content to show you it.

I cling to legislation and morals to back up a point about LAW?! OH NO! I use facts? What a f*cking bastard I am, eh? Your opinion has no weight in law buddy, facts are facts and if you can't admit that and deal with it then head over to somalia or similar where the law, fact and moral don't appear to hold much weight.

You tried to "prove me wrong" using your gut feeling and nothing else, I've shown to you using fact and legislation, as well as a bit of history about it, why you're wrong. If you can't accept that then f*ck off over to the conspiracy theorists where gut feeling dominates everything while fact and logic is left to the wayside.

Do you pay the band Quiet Riot for using their copyrighted name as your username?

krudler

the groutch wrote: »

oh no! now where will I illegally download off the internet? :rolleyes:

#firstworldproblems

sigh, thats not the only thing the act is about, is this comes in you could be forced by WWE to remove your SES logo avatar as its copyrighted material.

Sykk

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Names of the signatories please, I'd like to remind people who not to vote for in future.

Loud and often.

This

General Zod

krudler wrote: »

Do you pay the band Quiet Riot for using their copyrighted name as your username?

Actually, as he is not performing gigs publically trying to be the band Quiet Riot he is not infringing on an copyright regarding their name.

You are wrong on one part, quietriot, you are allowed to make copies of works you purchase for yoru own backup provided you are not circumventing any DRM (which in itself is a horrible thing, but that's for another thread).

you are pushing hard to equate coperight infringement as theft.

The United States supreme court has previously ruled that
""interference with copyright does not easily equate with theft, conversion, or fraud. The Copyright Act even employs a separate term of art to define one who misappropriates a copyright... 'an infringer of the copyright.'" In the case of copyright infringement the province guaranteed to the copyright holder by copyright law is invaded, i.e. exclusive rights, but no control, physical or otherwise, is taken over the copyright, nor is the copyright holder wholly deprived of using the copyrighted work or exercising the exclusive rights held"

There is no proof that your "even 1%" would purchase if not available.

General Zod

Sykk wrote: »

This

The irish signatory will be the Irish ambassador to Japan, so it will be unlikely you will ever vote for him.

Sobanek

Are people actually retarded?
THIS DOES NOT BLOCK PIRACY ONLY - THIS CAN NOW BLOCK YOUTUBE, TWITTER, FACEBOOK AND WIKIPEDIA

ALL YOUR ACTIONS ON THE INTERNET ARE TO BE RECORDED.

Lets organise a protest in front of the Dail.

Also - THIS WAS DONE BEHIND OUR BACKS WITH NO DEMOCRATIC POWERS - THIS IS A BETRAYAL OF THE STATE AND ITS PEOPLE.

ixoy

I very much doubt even anyone in this state would seek to block YouTube, etc. YouTube willingly take down videos that violate copyright law. Many of the big records willingly put up their music videos.

Same would go for other of the major sites.

humanji

ixoy wrote: »

I very much doubt even anyone in this state would seek to block YouTube, etc. YouTube willingly take down videos that violate copyright law. Many of the big records willingly put up their music videos.

Same would go for other of the major sites.

That's no reason to give them the power to do so.

Stiffler2

Who gives a $h1t, certainly not I.

Download BitComet, go to torrent sites. Filter encrypted Torrents. Download encrypted torrents. There are even privatised torrent sites that only :

A) deal with encryption - ie all torrents are encrypted
Private community - you need to know a member to become a member

Once your downloads are encryted they can't tell what you're doing.
Use Tor to browse the net as well via proxie's to get your music.

I have a NAS box at home which is 6TB - about 80% full - ALL FOR FREE

This new law will stop nothing ............yawn

Nothingbetter2d

Acta will put ALOT of chinese out of work lol..... no more fake iphones and ugg boots from ebay in china

humanji

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Who gives a $h1t, certainly not I.

Download BitComet, go to torrent sites. Filter encrypted Torrents. Download encrypted torrents. There are even privatised torrent sites that only :

A) deal with encryption - ie all torrents are encrypted
Private community - you need to know a member to become a member

Once your downloads are encryted they can't tell what you're doing.
Use Tor to browse the net as well via proxie's to get your music.

I have a NAS box at home which is 6TB - about 80% full - ALL FOR FREE

This new law will stop nothing ............yawn

You're missing the point. Ignore the piracy part. This law allows for a company to dicatate to a country what sites it's people can view. As stated before, it allows them to demand the likes of youtube, google, facebook, twitter etc to all be blocked.

Nothingbetter2d

humanji wrote: »

You're missing the point. Ignore the piracy part. This law allows for a company to dicatate to a country what sites it's people can view. As stated before, it allows them to demand the likes of youtube, google, facebook, twitter etc to all be blocked.

ACTA in ireland would kill off our IT cloud computing industry if the likes of facebook/google/ebay/youtube was blocked... it would cause huge job losses.

Stiffler2

humanji wrote: »

You're missing the point. Ignore the piracy part. This law allows for a company to dicatate to a country what sites it's people can view. As stated before, it allows them to demand the likes of youtube, google, facebook, twitter etc to all be blocked.

well maybe they'll be blocked for you but nothing will be blocked for me :cool:

Seachmall

Stiffler2 wrote: »

well maybe they'll be blocked for you but nothing will be blocked for me :cool:

Completely missing the point...

AeoNGriM

ixoy wrote: »

I very much doubt even anyone in this state would seek to block YouTube, etc. YouTube willingly take down videos that violate copyright law. Many of the big records willingly put up their music videos.

Same would go for other of the major sites.

All it takes is one asshole with a gripe to ruin it for the rest of us. Apply Murphy's law here.

This is totally the wrong approach by the Government, this isn't their decision to make. There should be a referendum to decide what the people want. They are OUR elected representatives after all, and shouldn't be free to push their own agendas and make decisions of this magnitude without consulting the people.

humanji

Stiffler2 wrote: »

well maybe they'll be blocked for you but nothing will be blocked for me :cool:

Actually, they will be, because they'll shut down since no country would be allowed to have them.

cocoshovel

I honestly think the government dont even know why they're doing this let alone how to even use a f*ckin computer. Mouth breeding wánkers.

Sykk

General Zod wrote: »

The irish signatory will be the Irish ambassador to Japan, so it will be unlikely you will ever vote for him.

People in support etc.

Stiffler2

Seachmall wrote: »

Completely missing the point...

Well if they only block sites like Megaupload then I don't really have any issue's
These "companies" you speak of is really the music companies and the film industry.

By the looks of it they only seem to be interested in p2p or file sharing sites like megaupload and don't care about youtube or torrents.

If that's the case then I don't have any issue's.
If that isn't the case then I have major issue's

either way it opens the flood gates for things to come.
download what you can now or afterwards contact me

and let's not forget Irelands Justice system where murderers get 2 years in jail, a pirate will get nothing.

Here's a vid that suits the tone from the "limewire" days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wryDicO6WQ

k.p.h

Anyone notice that all this conspiracy hype that has been going on for the last decade or so is actually happening...

My buddy was extremely well read in the area, especially the financial side of things. He even managed to compile a documents from various sources of over 200 pages long. He presented it to a couple of TD's and the Gardai and got laughed out of it. Today 1.25 billion of our money got paid exactly to the people he said it would 8 years ago.

Now I'm not one for conspiracies, but he was exactly right. Not kinda right and he didn't take a shot in the dark, he just spent two years researching the subject.

Now if I ever got the feeling that it was out of our hands it it is right now. I am starting to be of the opinion that the majority of the world current affairs are being perpetuated by individuals and with their own best interests at heart.

As soon as something looks good a downgrade or some other occurrence happens. A lot of the civil unrest and uprisings lately have been perpetuated and organised through the internet. I don't think the powers that be like the scenario.

And as I looks now we stand on the eve of loosing the freedom of the internet and we have long lost the freedom of our finances. Money,communication and information the things that make the world go around. Slipping away from the majority's grasp.

Money going to the Rothschild's
Big brother taking over the internet.

Dark days ahead..

Seachmall

Stiffler2 wrote: »

Well if they only block sites like Megaupload then I don't really have any issue's
These "companies" you speak of is really the music companies and the film industry.

By the looks of it they only seem to be interested in p2p or file sharing sites like megaupload and don't care about youtube or torrents.

If that's the case then I don't have any issue's.
If that isn't the case then I have majoy issue's

If the wording does not directly protect sites that are based on web 2.0 princples and are not intended for pirating copyrighted materials sites like Youtube, Facebook, Twitter and Flickr are in jeopardy.

Makes sense, right?

The issue comes with the fact you cannot prove a websites intent. How can you? Presumably it won't have a domain that indicates it (e.g. www.comepirate.com) and it won't be mentioned in it's terms of use or service (e.g. "This website is solely for the avoidance of copyright laws"). Perhaps by it's content? But take a look at Youtube, a vast majority of it's material is copyrighted, and as it's all user generated anyone could organise a mass-upload of copyrighted materials as protest (I've heard this idea been thrown about). Would they be justified in blocking Youtube so?

You can't prove a websites intent and so you can't write a site-blocking law that isn't open ended and open to abuse.

download what you can now or afterwards contact me

What? You have access proxies? To remote shells? Torrents? To Darknets?

So do I and everybody else, but proxies and remote shells won't be very effective if the site doesn't exist and I really don't want to spend 6 days (legally!) downloading one album on a darknet.

MajesticDonkey

I reckon we all emmigrate to Tor.

Stiffler2

Seachmall wrote: »

You can't prove a websites intent and so you can't write a site-blocking law that isn't open ended and open to abuse.
What? You have access proxies? To remote shells? Torrents? To Darknets?

So do I and everybody else, but proxies and remote shells won't be very effective if the site doesn't exist and I really don't want to spend 6 days downloading one album on a darknet.

This is true, I expect what will happen in the future, don't know how far down the line is that you will accessing everything via the darknets.

We will also "probably" see a massive uprising of new servers hosting media in countries like Russia which I will be accessing via the darknets.

MajesticDonkey

Stiffler2 wrote: »

This is true, I expect what will happen in the future, don't know how far down the line is that you will accessing everything via the darknets.

We will also "probably" see a massive uprising of new servers hosting media in countries like Russia which I will be accessing via the darknets.

Just use Wikileak's hosting company: http://prq.se/?intl=1

Does this ACTA mean now that ISP's will be spying on what you download/browse?

MajesticDonkey

RVP 11 wrote: »

Does this ACTA mean now that ISP's will be spying on what you download/browse?

No, even though they can do that anyway.

Stiffler2

RVP 11 wrote: »

Does this ACTA mean now that ISP's will be spying on what you download/browse?

They can do that anyway with the DPI - Deep Packet inspection that ISP's run in Ireland. I know of a few that do anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection

Google has been watching you for years though.

If you don't want them to know what you're doing your options are :

proxies
Tor
Freenet

etc
etc

Son Of A Vidic

cocoshovel wrote: »

I honestly think the government dont even know why they're doing this let alone how to even use a f*ckin computer. Mouth breeding wánkers.

When you have a fúckwit of a Taoiseach that stands up in the Dáil and proudly states, "We have paid our way and will pay our way," for the debts of others of course. What do you expect? Should we even be surprised by the continuing muppetry?

Nothingbetter2d

would it not be easier just block MIAA and RIAA websites instead and leave the rest alone.

up for anything

The Irish government will lick your Troika ass in order to be seen as good little doggies awaiting a pat on the head. :mad:

lividduck

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Under the ACTA agreement customs officials could nab you for the unauthorised content of your Laptop, IPhone, Ipod, MP3 player etc

OMG..The authorities could take stolen property of us!!! where will it end?

Lone Stone

I think its time to start a new internet.. hmm..

lugha

Kirby wrote: »

You may have decided that, but many would disagree....myself included. Lumping them together might make it easier for some, but that doesn't make it right.

Are you really suggesting that some kid who sings a cover tune of Lady GaGa on youtube is the same as the guy who uses Torrents to allows everyone to download her latest album?

Really? It's "pretty much one and the same thing"?

Perhaps many have convinced themselves that they disagree?

Even if you do argue that there is a difference between piracy (odd word BTW, when did the patched-eyed, parrot wearing types ever take to the high seas to knock out counterfeit gear??) and copyright infringement (and I also think the difference in your example is in scale only, not principle), what does it matter?

If you are going to break the law, what does it matter what particular law you break? I’m not moralising btw, but I am amused as this apparent need for those who, if you prefer, infringe on copyright, to rationalise their bahaviour.

Stiffler2

Lone Stone wrote: »

I think its time to start a new internet.. hmm..

Not a bad idea actually and not that it couldn't be done.
Let's create ourselves a vlan across the whole net and blacklist any ip's that have to do with :

any governemnt agency's
governement in general
interpol
music industry
film industry

and profit ?

Downloading Music is Not a Big Deal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wxg2t8LRCbg