ACTA to be signed tomorrow by gov.

dyer

European Parliament rapporteur quits in Acta protest

Negotiations over a controversial anti-piracy agreement have been described as a "masquerade" by a key EU official.

Kader Arif, the European Parliament's rapporteur for the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (Acta), resigned over the issue on Friday.

He said he had witnessed "never-before-seen manoeuvres" by officials preparing the treaty.

"I condemn the whole process which led to the signature of this agreement: no consultation of the civil society, lack of transparency since the beginning of negotiations, repeated delays of the signature of the text without any explanation given, reject of Parliament's recommendations as given in several resolutions of our assembly."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16757142

Stiffler2

dyer wrote: »

European Parliament rapporteur quits in Acta protest



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16757142[/QUOTE]

Well there you have it, proof IMO that the music & film industry are handing out brown envelopes to these twats in the EU who seem to be pushing this through without going through the correct channels hence why he quit.

O Yes - Acta will be activated

Kirby

Pretty shocking stuff if true.

Eman_321

So this ACTA means we can't stream movies and watch vids on youtube right?
Since they're technically downloading? Otherwise I can't see how an ISP will differentiate between downloading & streaming...
I wonder if proxies will work

Run_to_da_hills

Two years ago and you wouldn't listen.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Illegal downloaders will be sent a warning e-mail, then a letter if they continue, and finally must appear before a judge if they offend again.

The judge can impose a fine, or suspend their access to the internet.

This will inevitably spread throughout the rest of the EU through ATCA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8436745.stm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I could possibly see that being appealed as it is full of holes and could be a possible attack on our freedom of speech and expression.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63743393

Johro

I use satellite broadband which always puts my IP address as Torino, Italy. It's, apparently, where I operate from.
*shrugs*
Might come in handy after all.

HTCT700

You have to stand against this. This is sick treaty that may put censorship on the internet and narrow our privacy rights. I don't think anybody would agree for 24/7 watch in the internet. One of the ACTA statements says that a person may be sentenced without a trial. It's anti-piracy treaty but is it worth a price of free internet ?

Never say it's to late to react. ACTA is signed by Ireland already but it is not ratified yet. Until that will happen, it is not too late !You need to show your dissatisfaction with that fact and force government to change their mind. I am polish and in my country there where massive protests in all big cities. Still they have signed that but there is a big chance they will not ratify ACTA. I believe, Irish politics are much smarter than ours so it should not be that hard to convince them

One thing that frightens me is that, in Ireland there is very few people that know about ACTA and how dangerous the treaty is. You should tell people about it, maybe print posters saying "no to acta". The thing is that if lots of people will stand against that, then there is no chance they will ratify this because they will be afraid of losing support in the elections. You may send emails to politics asking them to support your decision in the Dail.

I don't know how it is in Ireland but is there any chance to call a referendum by Irish citizens in such cases ? In Poland, we need 500,000 people to sign in petition in order to call a referendum for ratifying ACTA. Maybe you know, I don't know too much about politics.

If you don't want government to interfere in your privacy, you should say NO TO ACTA before it's too late

Notorious97

I have some simple questions, all i want to know is

A - Can i download free albums right now or is UPC monitoring my downloads as of today?
B - If i use the US Itunes store, can I be cut off?

That is all

Run_to_da_hills

Notorious97 wrote: »

I have some simple questions, all i want to know is

A - Can i download free albums right now or is UPC monitoring my downloads as of today?
B - If i use the US Itunes store, can I be cut off?

That is all

Answer to A. It will take time to implement all this, service providers don't have the manpower or technology to monitor all this. Give it time and they will be obliged to install search robots and filters to monitor illegal activity.

I would guess that you would be OK for now but down the line if you were brought to attention for illegal downloading and they found that you had a history of it from your records they could throw the book at you. (Under current Irish and EU data retention directives your service provider must retain records of all your file correspondance for up to two years).

Answer to B.If it was unapproved by Apple they could possibly cut you off. It would be the same as purchasing a Maxbook Pro from the Apple store in Belfast and wanting them to forward it directly to you down south. I could fore see a time when you will only be able to download material through authorised agents within your jurisdiction.

Eman_321

But sites like netflix and youtube is OK? Or would watching youtube be banned as well.

HTCT700

Eman_321 wrote: »

But sites like netflix and youtube is OK? Or would watching youtube be banned as well.

Well, it's hard to say for sure but videos that contain music (at least 90% of YT) are going to be deleted. The other thing is that, you may go to jail for uploading your video from holidays where there is a music (e.g. from the radio) in the background. That is because you do not own rights to that song and thanks to ACTA - you're criminal

Eman_321

HTCT700 wrote: »

Well, it's hard to say for sure but videos that contain music (at least 90% of YT) are going to be deleted. The other thing is that, you may go to jail for uploading your video from holidays where there is a music (e.g. from the radio) in the background. That is because you do not own rights to that song and thanks to ACTA - you're criminal

I think this law should be revised if not scrapped. If it doesn't protect the users as in the government taking down illegal sites to prevent breaching the laws then I don't see why a person should not use one if they happen to come across it.
But uploading a video on youtube because a background song is playing is just :mad:

Capt'n Midnight

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

(Under current Irish and EU data retention directives your service provider must retain records of all your file correspondance for up to two years).

Is it not just one year now ?

http://www.irelandip.com/2011/02/articles/privacy-1/president-signs-communications-retention-of-data-act-2011-into-law/

The Act requires telephone service providers to retain telephone data for two years, and internet data to be retained by internet service providers for 12 months. Telephone data was previously retained for three years pursuant to Part 7 of the Criminal Justice (Terrorist Offences) Act 2005 (which the Act repeals). Internet data was not previously required by law to be monitored or retained.

Linky to law
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2011/en/act/pub/0003/print.html

Of course the revenue get rights , not sure if this is a backdoor/loophole since revenue could simply raid your house anyway if they suspected you were evading VAT or import duties.

(3) An officer of the Revenue Commissioners not below the rank of principal officer may request a service provider to disclose to that officer data retained by the service provider in accordance with section 3 where that officer is satisfied that the data are required for the prevention, detection, investigation or prosecution of a revenue offence.

Notorious97

HTCT700 wrote: »

Well, it's hard to say for sure but videos that contain music (at least 90% of YT) are going to be deleted. The other thing is that, you may go to jail for uploading your video from holidays where there is a music (e.g. from the radio) in the background. That is because you do not own rights to that song and thanks to ACTA - you're criminal

Not to be arguing with you here, I really dont know the full ins and outs of this law, but is the above definitely correct ab out YT content being deleted or is this just people over reacting?

Il go fuc*ing mad if they delete my YT channel, whats the point in YT if we cant share music videos!!

Nobody is going to want to see on YT my trip to the local shop for fu*k sake, god help us all.

Capt'n Midnight

Eman_321 wrote: »

But sites like netflix and youtube is OK? Or would watching youtube be banned as well.

unlikely

mainly because they can afford enough lawyers to fight it out in the High Court.


The big problems is that these laws haven't been discussed, and the wording is vague, and they will add more red tape without affecting the issue of copyright infringement.


Lesser sites could face bankruptcy just trying to lawyer up. If only such things could be sorted by arbitration or small claims court or if there were better safe harbour provisions or an IT / rights savvy commissioner.

AND it could be shown that the law was applied equally in the sense that the rights holders were seen to be going after sites based on the rate of infringement rather than going after easy targets. ( Does this mean local sites could complain of harassment ? )

Another solution would be where youtube , boards , ebay et ál change their terms and conditions to say
"I agree to cover any legal expenses incurred as a results of my uploads, and that I have sufficient assets / indemnity insurance to cover at least €60,000 in costs."

Look at how much health insurance costs, one reason is that medical care isn't cheap. Imagine a world were you had to take out insurance against rights holders. And like health insurance you'd have to take it out for your kids too...

Bearing in mind how often the rights holders have blamed the wrong person even the innocent have reason to fear.


In California they have (had?) a strange law. If you sold anything in California then you had to obey their laws, so you could be sued if one widget was sent there. IIRC the result was that lots of companies refused to sell stuff there unless the volume was high enough to be worth the risk.

Ireland is small. The big multinationals could cut their losses by blocking every Irish ISP, and set up small sacrificial shell companies to work here.

Ciaran500

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

(Under current Irish and EU data retention directives your service provider must retain records of all your file correspondance for up to two years).

What is your "file correspondence"?

Eman_321

I better start taking down all my uploads..
My original question hasn't been answered however.. when will this law being in effect?

Ciaran500

Eman_321 wrote: »

I better start taking down all my uploads..

You're at no risk of anything happening to you based on some youtube uploads, at worst youtube will take them down.

Eman_321

That's good to know Ciaran..
Does this law concern games as well?
I play a game where Sierra stopped the server, I don't know how but some guys manage to host some servers where we still play by downloading patches.
Is that also an infringement? Tbh, I don't see how it is.

Capt'n Midnight

Notorious97 wrote: »

Il go fuc*ing mad if they delete my YT channel, whats the point in YT if we cant share music videos!!

Nobody is going to want to see on YT my trip to the local shop for fu*k sake, god help us all.

you should still be able to share stuff you have rights to.

If you don't have the rights to use it, and by that I mean something signed by the rights holder, not just someone claiming to own the rights (LOTS of legal disputes over funny videos)


Forget the moral rights because under existing Irish law if you infringe someone else's copyright then you leave yourself open to prosecution Criminal penalties extend to fines of up to €127000 and/or terms of imprisonment of up to 5 years.


Now that you understand that in theory people could loose their house and have to put their life back on track after a few years in the slammer over one song* you may appreciate just how serious is the issue of granting the rights holders even more ways to "blackmail" people into paying trumped "settlements" rather than risk everything on the whims of a judge/jury/ambiguous wordings.


Is there any chance that something like this could affect house prices ?
What's the value of investments when the risk of loosing them goes up ?



*song,
can mean a riff, The Verve lost all their rights to Bitter Sweet Symphony
or four and a half minutes of silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-11964995 - you might say so what, point is that this case did make it to the High Court in the UK

seanbmc

There's a protest on saturday the 4th of February guys, not sure if this has been said already.

freeze4real

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Forget the moral rights because under existing Irish law if you infringe someone else's copyright then you leave yourself open to prosecution Criminal penalties extend to fines of up to €127000 and/or terms of imprisonment of up to 5 years.

Can we get this straight,

watching movies from posted on the internet apart from youtube/google video is infringement on copyright is this so ?

Watching movies without downloading them.

buyer95

Does this basically mean we should put our illegal downloading into overdrive and download as much as possible in what little time we have left our is it too late already?

Sobanek

freeze4real wrote: »

Can we get this straight,

watching movies from posted on the internet apart from youtube/google video is infringement on copyright is this so ?

Watching movies without downloading them.

Yes.

freeze4real

Sobanek wrote: »

Yes.

Dammit fecking hell all those good shows twilight new moon Spartacus vengeance, home and away neighbours.

We have to fight this. United as one or divided we fall.

Sobanek

freeze4real wrote: »

Dammit fecking hell all those good shows twilight new moon Spartacus vengeance, home and away neighbours.

We have to fight this. United as one or divided we fall.

'tis true, brother! The law should be afraid of the people, not people being afraid of the law.

Eman_321

buyer95 wrote: »

Does this basically mean we should put our illegal downloading into overdrive and download as much as possible in what little time we have left our is it too late already?

xD The very question I was afraid to ask

Eman_321

freeze4real wrote: »

Dammit fecking hell all those good shows twilight new moon Spartacus vengeance, home and away neighbours.

We have to fight this. United as one or divided we fall.

I told you.. now shut up with your Spartacus quotes :rolleyes:

44leto

Originally Posted by buyer95
Does this basically mean we should put our illegal downloading into overdrive and download as much as possible in what little time we have left our is it too late already?

Not at all
You just have to illegally download differently, this law will reduce illegal downloading for about a month, then it will return to the way it was.

freeze4real

When does this law start take effect.

Notorious97

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Notorious97 wrote: »

Il go fuc*ing mad if they delete my YT channel, whats the point in YT if we cant share music videos!!

Nobody is going to want to see on YT my trip to the local shop for fu*k sake, god help us all.

you should still be able to share stuff you have rights to.

If you don't have the rights to use it, and by that I mean something signed by the rights holder, not just someone claiming to own the rights (LOTS of legal disputes over funny videos)


Forget the moral rights because under existing Irish law if you infringe someone else's copyright then you leave yourself open to prosecution Criminal penalties extend to fines of up to €127000 and/or terms of imprisonment of up to 5 years.


Now that you understand that in theory people could loose their house and have to put their life back on track after a few years in the slammer over one song* you may appreciate just how serious is the issue of granting the rights holders even more ways to "blackmail" people into paying trumped "settlements" rather than risk everything on the whims of a judge/jury/ambiguous wordings.


Is there any chance that something like this could affect house prices ?
What's the value of investments when the risk of loosing them goes up ?



*song,
can mean a riff, The Verve lost all their rights to Bitter Sweet Symphony
or four and a half minutes of silence http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-11964995 - you might say so what, point is that this case did make it to the High Court in the UK

Thanks for the explanation, i have live music performances on youtube, hard to find ones considering the man is dead but i only put them up because other fans would like to see, this law is putting us backwards!

Someone on last page said we need to start downloading differently, pm me the ways haha

drdeadlift

bump

briany

Very true about downloading levels remaining unaffected. Even if they blocked the internet, people would take trading hard drives, SSDs and USB sticks like never before. Whole new social networks, and not the kind that exist only online, would be formed around the new practice, greatly enriching the lives of the people who take part while the others who attempt to access their content lawfully remain the ones who, ironically, feel the sting from the draconian legislation.

I got a retail copy Homefront the other day which is a PC game. Put the disk in, install.............OK............downloading an update from Steam.........Hmmmmmm this update looks like it's going to take........NINE HOURS! :eek: Turns out that they only put half the game on the actual disc! I don't know what your logic is there, lads, but you're not going to make strides toward deterring piracy like that. There's people out there still on dial up, no broadband available, who like to play games too. Does anyone think they're gonna try and download 7 GB over a 4/KBs connection, losing years and thousands of Euros in the process?

Carter P Fly

so what about second hand books, CD's and the like? I realise its is different due to volume of copies but take a charity shop or any second hand book store, could they face a huge fine or imprisonment for selling a hundred or so penguin books?

If someone posts a picture I took on facebook can I have them sent to jail because I'm the copyright owner?

I post a picture of me standing beside a sculpture and the sculptor has me fined into bankruptcy?

Its all madness I tells you, madness.

Helix

acta is nowhere near as bad as is being made out

canada signed up for it ages ago, and there's been absolutely none of the fallout people are expecting for it in ireland. it's a decent enough bill. it's fair, and it's well defined, unlike the other ones

acta isn't the problem at all, its the other ones

briany

Carter P Fly wrote: »

so what about second hand books, CD's and the like? I realise its is different due to volume of copies but take a charity shop or any second hand book store, could they face a huge fine or imprisonment for selling a hundred or so penguin books?

If someone posts a picture I took on facebook can I have them sent to jail because I'm the copyright owner?

I post a picture of me standing beside a sculpture and the sculptor has me fined into bankruptcy?

Its all madness I tells you, madness.

I know these examples are a bit tongue in cheek to highlight the unbalanced nature of the whole thing but we all know that these types of laws aren't set up by, nor conceived by small time interests or common people who'd like to have control over what's done with their online identities or properties even though those parties are infinitely less able to absorb the impact that infringement has.

I've often wondered about the legality of buying second hand but, really, buying second hand has been around a good amount of modern human history along with barter etc. There'd be uproar if someone tried to make that explicitly illegal. I hope we never come to the point of seeing news reports of police breaking up 'illegal' car boot sales, old ladies being bundled into the back of squad cars. :pac:

Carter P Fly

Im not really kidding though, There's an awful lot of stuff people do daily that in in breach of copyright but there simply wasnt anything in place should someone decide to be nasty about things.

There was a thread in the photography forum about a guy who was pissed because people werer phographing his sculpture that's actually a poxy HUGE thing made of trees on the side of a mountian.

These types of laws give power to people who are upset by soemthing you or I previously wouldnt have thought or cared about.

Cantona's Collars

Never seen this until last night: Googled 'tv streaming' as I was looking for US show and couldn't get my usual sites to play ball (all fixed now)

A message came up with the search results:

In response to a complaint we received under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have removed 1 result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaint that caused the removal(s) at ChillingEffects.org.

Maybe it's going around for a while but I never saw it before.

Sam Vimes

buyer95 wrote: »

Does this basically mean we should put our illegal downloading into overdrive and download as much as possible in what little time we have left our is it too late already?

This will have little or no effect on downloading. As John Gilmore said " The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it". People will always find a way

Pretty much the only people who have anything to fear from this law are those who run legitimate websites that allow users to upload content

Mr. Loverman

zerks wrote: »

Never seen this until last night: Googled 'tv streaming' as I was looking for US show and couldn't get my usual sites to play ball (all fixed now)

A message came up with the search results:

Maybe it's going around for a while but I never saw it before.

DMCA has been around for a good few years now.

ACTA is a different law.

kris71

I seriously wouldn't even consider calling anonymous as 'hackers' whole thing evolved into an international massive movement. If you can use google and twitter (or irc if you are an oldschool ) you can become an anonymous 'hacker' in 5 minutes. They certainly do have roots and there are smaller groups operating pretty close with them like lulz for example that are actually hackers.

Now back to the edge.

in case if you missed the link posted few posts up
european-parliament-official-charge-acta-quits-denounces-masquerade-behind-acta:
"I want to denounce in the strongest possible manner the entire process that led to the signature of this agreement: no inclusion of civil society organisations, a lack of transparency from the start of the negotiations, repeated postponing of the signature of the text without an explanation being ever given, exclusion of the EU Parliament's demands that were expressed on several occasions in our assembly.

As rapporteur of this text, I have faced never-before-seen manoeuvres from the right wing of this Parliament to impose a rushed calendar before public opinion could be alerted, thus depriving the Parliament of its right to expression and of the tools at its disposal to convey citizens' legitimate demands.”

Everyone knows the ACTA agreement is problematic, whether it is its impact on civil liberties, the way it makes Internet access providers liable, its consequences on generic drugs manufacturing, or how little protection it gives to our geographical indications.

This agreement might have major consequences on citizens' lives, and still, everything is being done to prevent the European Parliament from having its say in this matter. That is why today, as I release this report for which I was in charge, I want to send a strong signal and alert the public opinion about this unacceptable situation. I will not take part in this masquerade."
source: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120126/11014317553/european-parliament-official-charge-acta-quits-denounces-masquerade-behind-acta.shtml?fb_ref=article&fb_source=home_oneline

Does anyone still have any doubts that we are being ****ed up here?
Maybe in Canada yous are so used to being policed 24/7 that you can't see a difference anyway, or maybe corporations are not that stupid and will not start using acta potential before most of the countries will sign it