Parents being 'advised' to park legally outside Renmore school

factual lies

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Given, that we as a nation, are facing an epidemic of obesity and related conditions such as type 2 diabetes, heart disease and so on. It might be considered madness to not use the obvious opportunity of a 15 minute walk to school. Or possibly a short drive and then a 10 minute walk.

There are also educational implications. I have a cousin who recently retired from working as a National Teacher. She tells me that in the days when children walked or cycled to school, they came into class ready to sit down and learn something. Their modern car-borne counterparts apparently find it very hard to settle down.

People who insist on driving their children door to door are arguably not just endangering the children who walk they are arguably also contributing to a disruptive classroom environment.

My kids have no problems settling down to work when they arrive. They get ample exercise everyday between football and hurling training/matches, dance classes, swimming, walking the dog etc etc etc. These few minutes every morning will not harm children in anyway whatsoever as long as the parent/s of the children help them see the way of a good normal life thats not revolving around electronic gadgets.

galwaycyclist

factual lies wrote: »

My kids have no problems settling down to work when they arrive. They get ample exercise everyday between football and hurling training/matches, dance classes, swimming, walking the dog etc etc etc. These few minutes every morning will not harm children in anyway whatsoever as long as the parent/s of the children help them see the way of a good normal life thats not revolving around electronic gadgets.

Ok as I hoped I made clear in my original phrasing I don't wish to get into anyones personal circumstances. However to address the point that you might be interpreted to be making. Are you saying that in your view, because someone has the wealth and time to provide extra curricular activities for their own children, that this in some way justifies or excuses behaviours in a shared public space that endanger and inconvenience other peoples children?

Iwannahurl

I don't want to focus on anyone's personal circumstances either. Other than my own, of course.

It's important to view issues like this at the public policy/population level, however.

In my view, the nature and use of shared public space ought to be conducive to the public welfare and the greater good. Some people (such as myself) want their children to be able to use shared public spaces in a manner that is beneficial to their safety, physical health, mental wellbeing and personal independence.

Walking and cycling to school are key aspects in this endeavour. That is my opinion, and it also supported by the available evidence TTBOMK.

If the road traffic environment is not conducive -- whether because of public policy deficiences, inappropriate behaviour by members of the public, or both -- then my kids' opportunity to have what I would regard as a "good normal life" (which includes not being dependent on somebody driving them around in a car) is being negatively affected.

Presumably all of us parents strive to do the very best we can for our children. Those parents who drive their children to school can do so AND at the same time drive/park in a manner that doesn't compromise the health and safety of other people's children. I see no reason why those parents (not including anyone here, I hasten to add) currently parking in an illegal/dangerous/obnoxious manner can't behave more responsibly, especially if it's only "for a few minutes every morning".

Mrs OBumble

TBH, I see an on-going moral hazard for society if the majority of kids watch their parents break the law (and make life inconvenient for other people) every day, and get away with it.

Johnny-5-year-old may not know that parking on the footpath is illegal. But at 6 or 8 of 10 or whatever he's going to find out - and he's going to notice that the woman pushing a pram has to walk on the toad to get around the cars. But he's going to think that breaking the law must be ok, 'cos Mum and Dad always did it.

Sure some kids will be exposed to illegal behaviour, but we should be working to make it a minority, IMHO.

Iwannahurl

I'm afraid the old-fashioned notion of showing good example may have passed its sell-by date in this country a long time ago.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0116/1224310308457.html

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056518955

wet-paint

It really pisses me off in Renmore, as the cap park is so close. They're all over the double yellow line, they really close up Rowan Avenue, which is usually fairly wide, and they take fking forever parking and moving off from parked, treating it like a private yard.


God, what I wouldn't do if I were a cop and had a ticket book.

Iwannahurl

wet-paint wrote: »

God, what I wouldn't do if I were a cop and had a ticket book.

Not a lot? See links in my previous post above.

wet-paint

Yeah, I read that article. Did you read my post?

Iwannahurl

I did. No worries -- I take your point and I wasn't dissing you in any way.

I was merely suggesting, in a roundabout and hopefully humorous way (hence the ), that if you were indeed a cop (or a Traffic Warden) you mightn't be so zealous.

Or that if you were zealous they wouldn't hire you.

My impression, based on some direct experience, is that many of the enforcers don't care much and that they seem to be implementing some unwritten policy which is to turn a blind eye when it suits. I have yet to work out what their main priorities are, but I am fairly confident that the safety and convenience of non car users is not top of the list.

I have addressed this issue ad nauseam in various places (as certain Boardsies would be happy to tell you) and I'm well familiar with official attitudes.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72343369

neemish

what strikes me about this debate is how one-sided it is. Apart from one or two brave posters, the parents of Renmore have suddenly gone to ground.
There are so many ways around this problem, its just surprising that it hasnt been done until now. Surely the best people to sort it out are the parents themselves. For example, in schools in the US there is 'car lane' duty where parents take it in turns to look after the car park and keep things moving. They help kids to exit cars, cross onto paths etc. That way the majority have no need to get out of their cars. In renmore it would be so easy to set up with the lane around the Church. And voile, problem solved.
Im sure there are other ideas. All it would take is a good Parents Council meeting to brainstorm and then set up. Common sense, no???

Iwannahurl

Some good suggestions there.

I'm not sure how necessary it would be in the specific case of Scoil Caithriona, since they have a large car park available close by.

There are other schools where the chaos and muppetry could be addressed by organising a school pick-up system. IMO this would have to be based on prioritising safety and convenience for non car users in the first instance, since they contribute nothing to the problem and are more vulnerable than vehicles.

School management would have to show leadership, or a high degree of concern at least, since they have no formal role in what goes on outside the school.

Parents will/can not act effectively on their own volition to deal with this issue until someone in a position of authority or influence takes a stand.

factual lies

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Ok as I hoped I made clear in my original phrasing I don't wish to get into anyones personal circumstances. However to address the point that you might be interpreted to be making. Are you saying that in your view, because someone has the wealth and time to provide extra curricular activities for their own children, that this in some way justifies or excuses behaviours in a shared public space that endanger and inconvenience other peoples children?

I am not, Im talking about this walk to school proposals people were talking about, not the parking situation. I park either in the car park or on the road down the side of nolan park (don't know the name of that particular road) where there is no double yellow lines.

And, what has wealth got to do with the kids activities? yearly membership for the local sports clubs is an average of E50 per year, swimming is around E8 per class (when broken down), dance classes is E7 per class and its still free to walk the dog. Overall I worked it out to be around E350 a year to cover all of them, money well spent. You'd do well to get a playstation and a couple of games for that !

Iwannahurl

More people could walk to school though. I doubt that everybody who drives does so out of sheer necessity.

As for the economic argument, there are people saying that the annual Household Charge is beyond their means, and that's only €100.

Mrs OBumble

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Parents will/can not act effectively on their own volition to deal with this issue until someone in a position of authority or influence takes a stand.

I believe that it's actually illegal for someone other than a guard to direct traffic ... remembering the driving test and the automatic fail for a serious offence if you so much as indciate to another driver or pedestrian with your hands.

Could be wrong. Suspect I'm not.

Robbo

JustMary wrote: »

I believe that it's actually illegal for someone other than a guard to direct traffic ... remembering the driving test and the automatic fail for a serious offence if you so much as indciate to another driver or pedestrian with your hands.

Could be wrong. Suspect I'm not.

A person in charge of animals may also direct traffic. There's plenty of Tiger-era horses going cheap as glue, so there's your solution.

antoobrien

JustMary wrote: »

I believe that it's actually illegal for someone other than a guard to direct traffic ... remembering the driving test and the automatic fail for a serious offence if you so much as indciate to another driver or pedestrian with your hands.

Could be wrong. Suspect I'm not.

That would be indicating/gesturing other traffic when in charge of a vehicle, which is a fail.

Robbo wrote: »

A person in charge of animals may also direct traffic.

As Robbo has pointed out there are situations where citizens can direct traffic, such as a few years back I helped direct traffic at a wake that was being held at somebody's house until the gardai could take over.

Iwannahurl

JustMary wrote: »

I believe that it's actually illegal for someone other than a guard to direct traffic ... remembering the driving test and the automatic fail for a serious offence if you so much as indciate to another driver or pedestrian with your hands.

Could be wrong. Suspect I'm not.

I have the impression at times that nobody at all is directing traffic in this country!

Since AGS are clearly not tackling this problem already, they would have to be persuaded to take an interest. That could take some time*.

Meanwhile, I will presume that "traffic" means vehicles circulating on the public highway. Perhaps therefore this could be interpreted in a way that permits schools/parents to keep cars off the footpaths and dished kerbs near schools. This would be the top priority, IMO.






* Then again, they can take a zero tolerance approach when they want to: http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/934/2012-5/Worshippers-warned-to-park-legally

Dan_Solo

SillyMcCarthy wrote: »

And don't forget to include the GAA supporter who also
think they can park where they bloody like!

Wasn't there a thing about this a few years back where someone out near Pearse stadium had his car blocked by a GAA van, and when he rang the police not only did they tell him to basically feck off, it turned out they hadn't even logged his call.
You can take a guess as to where I'm pointing the finger here on enforcement of commonly known legislation...

Iwannahurl

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Wasn't there a thing about this a few years back where someone out near Pearse stadium had his car blocked by a GAA van, and when he rang the police not only did they tell him to basically feck off, it turned out they hadn't even logged his call.
You can take a guess as to where I'm pointing the finger here on enforcement of commonly known legislation...

I've been there before, more than once...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056077602

po0k

<jest>
Get a length of wavin and herd them out of the way like the cattle they are.
In short, beat them with sticks.

The border collie is optional.
</jest>

galwaycyclist

po0k wrote: »

<jest>
Get a length of wavin and herd them out of the way like the cattle they are.
In short, beat them with sticks.

The border collie is optional.
</jest>

Yea no ear tag - no stopping or parking

Iwannahurl

po0k wrote: »

<jest>
Get a length of wavin and herd them out of the way like the cattle they are.

In short, beat them with sticks.

The border collie is optional.
</jest>

Hydrodare you (you city slicker).

Iwannahurl

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Given, that we as a nation, are facing an epidemic of obesity and related conditions such as type 2 diabetes, heart disease and so on. It might be considered madness to not use the obvious opportunity of a 15 minute walk to school. Or possibly a short drive and then a 10 minute walk.

There are also educational implications. I have a cousin who recently retired from working as a National Teacher. She tells me that in the days when children walked or cycled to school, they came into class ready to sit down and learn something. Their modern car-borne counterparts apparently find it very hard to settle down.

People who insist on driving their children door to door are arguably not just endangering the children who walk they are arguably also contributing to a disruptive classroom environment.

factual lies wrote: »

My kids have no problems settling down to work when they arrive. They get ample exercise everyday between football and hurling training/matches, dance classes, swimming, walking the dog etc etc etc. These few minutes every morning will not harm children in anyway whatsoever as long as the parent/s of the children help them see the way of a good normal life thats not revolving around electronic gadgets.

Bump.

While searching for an update on the Smarter Travel fund, I found the following:

• The latest research shows that over half of schoolchildren live no more than 2 km from school and almost 80% live within 5 km.
  
  
• The journey to school is an ideal way for children to take part in regular physical activity, to interact with their peers, and to develop the road sense that children need as pedestrians and cyclists. Alternative modes of transport also improve children’s alertness, with 90% of teachers surveyed across England & Wales saying that walking, cycling or using public transport increased pupils’ concentration levels in class.

No source given for that 90% claim.

Link: http://www.smartertravelworkplaces.ie/yo_schools.php



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