Recent Forestry news from the DOAFM

Oldtree

from here:

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/

05 December 2011

2012 Provision for Forestry, Horticulture and Greyhound Sectors
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2011/december/title,60012,en.html

06 December 2011

Launch of 'Forestry & Timber Yearbook 2012'
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2011/december/title,60016,en.html

08 December 2011

2012 Bioenergy Scheme for Willow and Miscanthus
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2011/december/title,60085,en.html

17 January 2012

Extension to closing date for applications under the 2012 Bioenergy Scheme
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/january/title,60690,en.html


25 January 2012

Immediate Opening of Forest Roads (Grant) Scheme
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/january/title,60877,en.html


25 January 2012

Re-Opening of Broadleaf Thinning Scheme
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/january/title,60881,en.html

Caoimhín

I must say Im going to find it hard to build roads for €30 per meter.

greenfingers89

Caoimhín wrote: »

I must say Im going to find it hard to build roads for €30 per meter.

completly agree, i reckon less than a 5th of sites could get a road in for €30... its going to mean some small sites wont be thinned at all which is a major step backwards

Oldtree

Beacons report in 2003 suggested that various organisations insisted that it is not economically viable for contractors to harvest conifers in coupe sizes less than 25 hectares. have to ask the question why so many smaller coups have been planted here over the years.

http://www.coillte.ie/aboutcoillte/publications/other_publications/

same old story, start with the grant aid and not a thought to the actual length of time it is actually going to take nor the viability during and at the end of that time.

Caoimhín

greenfingers89 wrote: »

completly agree, i reckon less than a 5th of sites could get a road in for €30... its going to mean some small sites wont be thinned at all which is a major step backwards

It is, however, I have often felt that due to the recent high timber prices that forest owners/farmers are getting from their thinnings, they should at least contribute to the roads. I was told by someone high up in the forest service that this is one of the main reasons for the reduction. Obvisiously the main reason is cost cutting so maybe this is just an easy excuse.

Still, with the lack of demand for gravel and stone, I ill do my very best to pass as much of this reduction onto the subcontractors. I get calls on a daily basis from digger men looking for work. I do know that diesel has gone up in cost but on the other side, materials and labour has gone down.
My other gripe is that the specification for the road construction has stayed the same. I once had my brother, a civil engineer, have a look at the road specification of the roads we build and he remarked that the standard of road we build is better than many of the county roads (excluding the surfacing, ie; tar)

Originally posted by Oldtree, Beacons report in 2003 suggested that various organisations insisted that it is not economically viable for contractors to harvest conifers in coupe sizes less than 25 hectares.

True, but a lot of that is down to small farm sizes in Ireland, particurarly in the West. It is unusual for find a farm over 100 acres.

The only good thing that I can see is the exclusion of Coillte and possibly the IFor UT from the scheme. This will free up a lot of funds for small forest owners. I have often wondered how it could be justified for one arm of Government giving money for another arm of government/semi-state money to build roads.

Has any forester on here had any experience of just harvesting and forwarding timber to the side of a public road and just loading it from there with the trucks just parking on the public road and lifting directly from a stack just inside the forest boundary?

reilig

Caoimhín wrote: »

Has any forester on here had any experience of just harvesting and forwarding timber to the side of a public road and just loading it from there with the trucks just parking on the public road and lifting directly from a stack just inside the forest boundary?

While I'm not a forester, I do live in an area with a lot of private forests where farmers planted the unproductive or unaccessable parts of their lands. There has been quite a bit of thinning over the last few years and I have seen 2 forests within 1 mile of my home where the forwarder deposited timber through a temporary hole in the ditch and the lorry picked it up while parked on the public road (blocking it 100%) in both instances. Its a quiet country road with only a small amount of traffic so inconvenience was minimal.

Caoimhín

reilig wrote: »

While I'm not a forester, I do live in an area with a lot of private forests where farmers planted the unproductive or unaccessable parts of their lands. There has been quite a bit of thinning over the last few years and I have seen 2 forests within 1 mile of my home where the forwarder deposited timber through a temporary hole in the ditch and the lorry picked it up while parked on the public road (blocking it 100%) in both instances. Its a quiet country road with only a small amount of traffic so inconvenience was minimal.

Thanks, I think i might look into this a bit more. Considering the Forest Service never paid any more than 80% of the costs anyway, it might make sense to do it this way, particuralry on sites under 20 acres. I did do one job where i just got the forwarder to load a tractor and trailor with the timber and just drew that to the farmyard where the truck lifted it. The forest was at the bottom of the farm and the grant wouldnt have covered the construction of a road to the forest anyway.

The only problem I can see arisising is issues with the local county council. I am already having serious problems with county engineers looking for massive bonds (€10,000- - 15,000) in case the road was damaged. I have a gentlemans agreement with the engineers with the council engineers in that if the road is damaged by the extraction, I pay for it. I have had to double lift the timber in some cases where the engineers put a ten tonne weight restriction on the road to prevent using artics. However, I found that tractors and trailers did more damage than a truck alone.

I will say nothing about how the locals still used the road for hauling heavy machinery, tractors and heavy loads and trucks with stone on the roads despite the ten tonne ban :mad:.
I think forestry was just an easy target because the council is consulted on the felling licence....

Rovi

Caoimhín wrote: »

Has any forester on here had any experience of just harvesting and forwarding timber to the side of a public road and just loading it from there with the trucks just parking on the public road and lifting directly from a stack just inside the forest boundary?

Part of mine borders directly onto one of our shiny new Motorways!
I suspect I wouldn't get away with roadside collection for long

Caoimhín

Rovi wrote: »

Part of mine borders directly onto one of our shiny new Motorways!
I suspect I wouldn't get away with roadside collection for long

It probably wouldnt be there for long.

"Wanna buy some fire wood and few gates boss, Ill throw in a dog?"

reilig

Caoimhín wrote: »

It probably wouldnt be there for long.

"Wanna buy some fire wood and few gates boss, Ill throw in a dog?"

I posted here about buying the pulpwood from a harvesting contractor who was thinning just beside my own farm before christmas. He had 2 lorry loads of sawlogs ready to be collected on the day before christmas eve and the lorry broke down. When the lorry came back to pick them up on January 4th, they found that some intelligent person had gone onto the stack and sawed 1ft and 2ft lengths off nearly half of the logs. He was hoppin mad!!!

Caoimhín

reilig wrote: »

they found that some intelligent person had gone onto the stack and sawed 1ft and 2ft lengths off nearly half of the logs. He was hoppin mad!!!

Well I hope they put them into their open fire and enjoyed the fireworks that ensued! Carpets burnt, floor destroyed and maybe a few burns from flying embers....

greenfingers89

have tried loading with the lorry on road in roscommon and carlow....you should see the letter i got off roscommon co co! twas like they were going to hunt me down and hand me in the square in boyle! got away with it in carlow but id say that was because nobody complained so the council was none the wiser...
like was said timber trucks get extra scrutiny because the council has their nose in it already.....
i've heard of bonds of €50,000 being requested for a particular road on the sligo leitrim border, not sure exactly which one but its near sooey im told......there was a letter sent to 3 forestry companies about it

Caoimhín

greenfingers89 wrote: »

have tried loading with the lorry on road in roscommon and carlow....you should see the letter i got off roscommon co co! twas like they were going to hunt me down and hand me in the square in boyle! got away with it in carlow but id say that was because nobody complained so the council was none the wiser...
like was said timber trucks get extra scrutiny because the council has their nose in it already.....
i've heard of bonds of €50,000 being requested for a particular road on the sligo leitrim border, not sure exactly which one but its near sooey im told......there was a letter sent to 3 forestry companies about it

This all stems from a well Known forestry company eh, Grownbelt . About 4 years ago they extracted timber out of a forest in Sliabh Annerin a few years ago. They made shít of the road and led to lots of complaints from the neighbours to the council. Coillte have also taken large tonnes of timber out of sites with little regard to the council or the neighbours.
As I said earlier, I have built up a level of trust with the engineers by now. Along with taking photos and fining any truck driver exceeding 15kmph on the minor roads, this seems to have calmed all concerned.
I finally got it through to thew county engineers that the value of the thinning coming out of a forest is worth FAR less than the thinning value.

aLso, when im harvesting a site, I spend an hour or so going to neighbours to explain the operation and maybe offer the crankier ones a bit of firewood out of it.

Ive wondered though, if a forest owner with enough of money were to chalange in the courts their constitional rights to use public roads to harvest their crops would they win. If one looks at timber as a crop unlike barly or silage crop, they why should the council be able to restrict their right to earn a living. Any thoughts?

greenfingers89

Caoimhín wrote: »

Ive wondered though, if a forest owner with enough of money were to chalange in the courts their constitional rights to use public roads to harvest their crops would they win. If one looks at timber as a crop unlike barly or silage crop, they why should the council be able to restrict their right to earn a living. Any thoughts?

ye i reckon its only a matter of time before it is brought to the courts by someone.....i can think of 1 individual who is already in court over the irish government claiming carbon credits off privately owned forestry, saying that its not theirs to claim....he has mentioned the roading issue to me before.

having said all that if the councils lost in court i presume they would just go and introduce a specific by-law to officially place restrictions on timber movement

Oldtree

30/01/2012

Ireland's Closer Involvement in Tackling Forest Loss in Developing Countries

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/january/title,60956,en.html

6/2/2012

Increased Interest in Forestry

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/february/title,61077,en.html

greenfingers89

Oldtree wrote: »

6/2/2012

Increased Interest in Forestry

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/february/title,61077,en.html

i think a lot of these figures showing an increase is bullsh1t to be honest. i reckon more and more landowners are putting multiple applications in with different consultants and companies which is artificially bumping up the figures

Oldtree

Wouldn't that be fraud if they did that, besides being dishonest. Although the greed of it would not suprise me. Dont these people realise that the money they recieve comes out of their neighbours pocket?

Do you have any definitive evidence or just hearsay?

greenfingers89

hate to be the one giving you the bad news oldtree but it happens all the time, i've two landowners as we speak who have applications in with myself and at least 1 other forester. its not fraud its completely legal unfortunately

Oldtree

tut tut.

Is it that the department couldnt be bothered to check the addresses for duplication or is it that the dept have not yet computerised the info or is it that you are actually allowed under the strict rules to claim twice or more??

Inquiring minds want to know

Rovi

Are we talking about multiple APPLICATIONS on the same area of land here, or multiple CONTRACTS/PAYMENTS on the same piece of land?

greenfingers89

lads yee are getting overly excited!:eek:

its not multiple payments its just multiple applications. the department and individual inspectors are fully aware oldtree but they dont care, it doesnt really matter to inspectors because they still only look at the ground in question once

Oldtree

so is it that the foresters time is being wasted by the multiple applications? Is it like part of a quoteing process?

greenfingers89

Oldtree wrote: »

so is it that the foresters time is being wasted by the multiple applications? Is it like part of a quoteing process?

it might end up being wasted if they dont get the job. the reason a forester is willing most of the time to do another application on the same piece of ground is because they cannot plant ground for a landowner unless they have done the application for it. for example a farmer might have got land approved with sws, woodlands, green belt, and forestry services ltd but if the farmers decides to give the job to a local forester or a different company the a 5th application will have to be done. the system is a little bit crazy but it has its positives too.

its not really like quoting because at the end of it all the grants are fixed so everyone is offering the same thing. however in recent years in some parts of the country 2 companies have offered cash up front to landowners to try persuade them to give the job.

what i would say about this practice is the landowner is going to lose out in the long run, the companies will not lose money, they will simply save money on looking after the site and it'll mean a few trees arnt replaced or an area isnt sprayed or fertiliser is spread too lightly

Oldtree

5/3/2012
marks National Tree Week by Planting Trees for Charity Fundraiser
http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/march/title,61781,en.html

Tree Council:
http://www.treecouncil.ie/treeweek/treeweek.html

Irish Times article on saturday:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/magazine/2012/0303/1224312603393.html

Celt tree nursery (charity) trees certified from irish seed
http://www.celtnet.org/page9.php

Oldtree

Lots of info on the Teagasc website:

http://www.teagasc.ie/forestry/technical_info/index.asp#Management_issues

MOSSAD

greenfingers89 wrote: »

i can think of 1 individual who is already in court over the irish government claiming carbon credits off privately owned forestry, saying that its not theirs to claim on timber

interesting- been wondering for quite a while if I can sell my carbon credits to the state.

Oldtree

Any links to the case or other information?

So how do we go about selling our hard won carbon credits then?
What assessments of the production of carbon credits are there for natural woodland/forest/scrub?

I found a figure (somewhere) that said that 3 tonnes of carbon are sequestered per year in a hectar of maturing uncut meadow.

Oldtree

From here:

http://www.friendsoftheirishenvironment.net/paperstoday/index.php?do=paperstoday&action=view&id=14765

"Forestry establishment grants see 57% increase"

There has been a 57% increase in the volume of applications for the forestry establishment grant in the first two months of 2012, according to Forestry Minister Shane McEntee.

The new applications for 3,120 hectares in January and February are additional to financial approvals by the Department of Agriculture for 4,760 hectares for this year’s planting programme.

Mr McEntee said he is confident this year’s target area of 7,000 hectares will be afforested. He confirmed that restrictions on afforestation of unenclosed land continue, for environmental and economic reasons.

However, integrated planting of enclosed and unenclosed land is allowed if the unenclosed land does not exceed 20% of the project area.

He rejected views that unenclosed land restrictions are holding back afforestation, and said restrictions are needed for protection of ecologically important wildlife habitats and species on unenclosed land, the greater risk of fire damage than on enclosed land and the greater need for phosphate fertiliser, which has the potential for environmental risk to adjacent aquatic habitats and species such as the freshwater pearl mussel.

He said the price of timber is very solid and the future for the industry is very strong. “I was informed yesterday that the price of ash has increased from €60 to €90 a tonne for thinnings.”

Mr McEntee said the establishment grant covering the entire initial cost of planting of the trees, coupled with an annual tax–free premium of up to €715 per hectare for up to 20 years, has become a very attractive option for farmers.

Of the national forest estate, 53% of forest cover is in public ownership through Coillte Teoranta, while the remaining 47% is in private ownership (having risen 25% since 1987).

The Government is considering the sale of some Coillte assets, excluding the sale of land, which are now being valued by the NTMA (NewERA unit) and the Government.

It is likely that any buyer would have to replant all forestry areas harvested - this is government policy apart from exceptional circumstances. There is currently no grant assistance available for the replanting of forests following the commercial felling of trees."

Oldtree

3rd April 2012

Forthcoming Payment of Annual Forestry Premiums Announced:

Payments totalling €58.5 million will be issued by Department in the coming days in respect of over 16,250 forestry plantations nationwide

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/april/title,62404,en.html

Oldtree

11 May 2012

Seminar on Innovation in Wood Usage, Design and Care

"today opened a seminar entitled "Wood for All Seasons" dealing with the innovative use of wood and wood products mainly in external applications. The seminar, organised by the Wood Marketing Federation, took place in Farmleigh House, Dublin."

"exports of forest products worth almost €290 million in 2010"

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/may/title,63099,en.html

Wood Marketing Federation

http://www.wood.ie/about-us/

Oldtree

17 May 2012

welcomes initiative to improve the quality of future broadleaf forests

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2012/may/title,63184,en.html

The first batch of improved birch plants will be available later this year