An open letter from Boards.ie to Minister Sean Sherlock

_AVALANCHE_ · 30-01-2012 10:31pm

I've only just noticed how many countries have signed ACTA in already,

Japan
Austria
Belgium
South Korea,
Bulgaria
Czech Republic
United Kingdom
Denmark
Finland
France
Greece,
Hungary
Italy
Canada
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxemburg
Malta
Singapore
Poland
Portugal
United States
Romania
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Australia
Morocco,
New Zealand

...and that's not all of them, this is "in" already, why were we talking about SOPA and PIPA at all? Do as your told Ireland won't change anything, it'll be signed here, the EU will ratify in June and the whole thing will be active sometime in 2013.

It may even have implications for Generic Medicines....I thought it was just media.

Noble Korhedron · 30-01-2012 10:32pm

Consider me as signing this thing also.

Citizen_Kane · 30-01-2012 10:42pm

_AVALANCHE_ wrote: »

I've only just noticed how many countries have signed ACTA in already,

Japan
Austria
Belgium
South Korea,
Bulgaria
Czech Republic
United Kingdom
Denmark
Finland
France
Greece,
Hungary
Italy
Canada
Latvia
Lithuania
Luxemburg
Malta
Singapore
Poland
Portugal
United States
Romania
Slovenia
Spain
Sweden
Australia
Morocco,
New Zealand

...and that's not all of them, this is "in" already, why were we talking about SOPA and PIPA at all? Do as your told Ireland won't change anything, it'll be signed here, the EU will ratify in June and the whole thing will be active sometime in 2013.

It may even have implications for Generic Medicines....I thought it was just media.

ACTA was signed by Ireland in Japan last week. Fact that you didn't know that is the point.

While the good people in the US think the SOPA battle is won, ACTA slips in.

While Ireland thinks the devil himself is being given a good fight here, our own government is off signing things in Japan.

While we will be fighting ACTA in the EU Parliament in June, the Trans-Pacific partnership will be slipping in.

We can never win until the people set the agenda.

Therightway · 30-01-2012 10:51pm

Minister Sean Sherlock TD,
You have likely received an uncountable number of messages on the same subject. We are sending to you because we are very concerned.

This act you are due to sign will:
- open up the Irish rights to abuse from large scale international business.
- undermine our ability to share knowledge
- Create an un-unified global internet
- Scare away international business
- Put us in the leagues of countries such as China and Iran, in regards to respect of Free Speech
- cost the legal system enormously in following up all claims from any internet user, whether their claims are legitimate or not.

I ask that you do not move on this if you do not FULLY understand all the details and outcomes. It is not to late to change your mind, or too at least delay until you have seen both sides. As a Minister you have a responsibility to all the Irish people to use your own initiative in making decisions, please don't just do what you think is expected of you. Make the right choice.

Regards,

_AVALANCHE_ · 30-01-2012 11:31pm

Citizen_Kane wrote: »

ACTA was signed by Ireland in Japan last week. Fact that you didn't know that is the point.

While the good people in the US think the SOPA battle is won, ACTA slips in.

While Ireland thinks the devil himself is being given a good fight here, our own government is off signing things in Japan.

While we will be fighting ACTA in the EU Parliament in June, the Trans-Pacific partnership will be slipping in.

We can never win until the people set the agenda.

I saw Ireland in the list and thought it added in error because of all the EU Countries that signed at the same time, from sites I've read ACTA is more vague and wider reaching than SOPA so I don't see why so much effort is being put in to stop the little brother

Was reading about TPP on the Electronic Frontiers site.

I'm obviously abit behind on the subject though.

oscarBravo · 31-01-2012 12:57am

Citizen_Kane wrote: »

3 strikes is a different, related animal which obligates an ISP to cut of your private internet access. This SI will obligate an ISP to cut off access to a whole website for the whole of Ireland.

Well, no. The SI doesn't actually indicate in any way, shape or form what the effect of an injunction can be; more to the point, it sets no limits whatsoever on the injunctive relief a copyright owner can seek. That's one of the worst aspects of it.

Per the proposed amendment, a copyright owner could seek an injunction to force us to disconnect a customer from the Internet, block access to a website, dance a jig while wearing a clown suit on Grafton Street - there are literally no parameters. The SI says that copyright owners have the legal right to seek injunctions against ISPs - that's it.

It's a bloody mess.

Citizen_Kane · 31-01-2012 12:57am

_AVALANCHE_ wrote: »

I saw Ireland in the list and thought it added in error because of all the EU Countries that signed at the same time, from sites I've read ACTA is more vague and wider reaching than SOPA so I don't see why so much effort is being put in to stop the little brother

Was reading about TPP on the Electronic Frontiers site.

I'm obviously abit behind on the subject though.

Because ACTA was largely done in secret.

One MEP has already resigned in protest of the undemocratic way ACTA is being shoved through.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16757142

DavidCollins · 31-01-2012 10:49am

oscarBravo wrote: »

Per the proposed amendment, a copyright owner could seek an injunction to force us to disconnect a customer from the Internet, block access to a website, dance a jig while wearing a clown suit on Grafton Street - there are literally no parameters. The SI says that copyright owners have the legal right to seek injunctions against ISPs - that's it.

It's worse than that, it allow copyright owners have the legal right to seek injunctions against "intermediaries". The term "intermediary" is not defined anywhere I could find it, so they could construe the term to mean anything from a website to an ISP to a router, to advertising company, to payment company. Literally anything you could make an argument for being an "intermediary"

hardCopy · 31-01-2012 11:03am

1865 wrote: »

This is very FG, Rush in a half-baked idea and feck the consequences.

Really?

Arfan · 31-01-2012 1:01pm

So there's a debate due on this at about 5:54pm today in the Dail. Hope everyone tunes in!(And doesn't fall asleep)

Spacedog · 31-01-2012 1:05pm

I hope more than 4 people bother show up for work this time.

seawoman · 31-01-2012 1:18pm

Signed

jay-me · 31-01-2012 1:41pm

Arfan wrote: »

So there's a debate due on this at about 5:54pm today in the Dail. Hope everyone tunes in!(And doesn't fall asleep)

How do we tune in?? Will it be on tv or radio or what?

MOH · 31-01-2012 1:48pm

jay-me wrote: »

How do we tune in?? Will it be on tv or radio or what?

I'm guessing here, if it works (never used it)

Fingleberries · 31-01-2012 2:11pm

Update from the office of Richard Bruton - not much for moving on this, I believe. The decision has already been made before any discussion in an Empty Dáil chamber takes place. Perhaps I'm too cynical.

From: Xxxxxx.Xxxxxxxx@djei.ie On Behalf Of Richard Bruton
Sent: 31 January 2012 12:42
To: XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: RE:

The principles which the Courts must apply have been clearly set out in previous cases. The SI is a better approach than trying to prescribe in a piece of legislation specific cases and remedies.

Kind regards,

Richard Bruton T.D.
Minister for Jobs, Enterprise & Innovation.

FreudianSlippers · 31-01-2012 2:30pm

For those with saorview, I'm pretty sure this is on RTÉ news channel.

Arfan · 31-01-2012 2:57pm

jay-me wrote: »

How do we tune in?? Will it be on tv or radio or what?

Oh sorry. As MOH pointed out the Dail and Seanad do live webcasts and also provide playback of previous sessions. It's a darn sight easier than trying to get in the visitors' gallery! The webcasts work pretty well and the radio one is handy on low end connections.

Citizen_Kane · 31-01-2012 3:55pm

Sorry to veer towards a broader topic, but I have also been lobbying Irish MEP's regarding ACTA.

Here is the their pro-forma response which I have received from both Jim Higgins and Gay Mitchell:

Many thanks for your email in relation to ACTA.

I was involved in the debate on ACTA. I am fully aware of the importance of the digital economy to Ireland, however, I believe there are a number of misunderstandings in relation the impact ACTA will have on it.

ACTA will not change EU law. It is about enforcing the existing rules and giving the holders of intellectual property rights the tools to pursue their right should they be confronted with large-scale counterfeits. Everybody who holds an intellectual property (IP) right, from the wine producer to the owner of entertainment software, will be able to count on common rules regarding the way they can complain with the authorities and how a complaint is dealt with. However, ACTA does not push the balance of rights towards IP right-holders. It fully respects free Internet and safeguards the role of service providers, as well as of the European system of copyright exceptions. The European regime of conditional exemption of liability for Internet operators, but also the European exceptions like private or educational use, will remain valid and unchanged. Respect for fundamental rights such as, privacy, freedom of expression and data protection is enshrined as a basic principle of the agreement and provisions in this regard are clearly stated in the text.

There also seems to be a misunderstanding in relation to how the ACTA agreement was negotiated. The text of ACTA is publicly available to all. The negotiations were not different from negotiations on any other international agreement. It is a fact that such agreements are not negotiated in public, but with the Lisbon Agreement and the revised Framework Agreement there are clear rules on how the Parliament should be informed of such trade negotiations. These have been followed. The European Commissioner for Trade (Karl De Gucht) participated in three Parliament debates, and replied to several written and oral questions, as well to two Resolutions and one Declaration of the Parliament, whilst Commission services have provided several dedicated briefings to MEPs during the negotiations.

In relation to how ACTA may affect access to affordable medicines in the developing world, there are no provisions in ACTA that could directly or indirectly affect the trade in generic medicines or global public health. The Commission has consulted on a number of occasions in the course of the last two years with public health stake-holders and NGOs, as well as with companies and associations producing generics and even with representatives of countries like Brazil and India, to ensure that ACTA would not impact on the access to affordable medicines for developing countries.

I hope this reply is of assistance to you.

Regards,

(Jim Higgins and Gay Mitchell sent the same thing verbatim)

Here is my response which may be used for ideas and inspiration, but please do not copy verbatim.

Dear Mr Higgins,

Thank you for your reply.

Your words of assurance do not put my concerns to rest.

I, as most informed citizens, are aware that ACTA is an international trade agreement which can operate and enforce outside of the protection of European democratic law.

We are also aware that ACTA is being promoted by powerful lobby groups and corporate representation in many digital and non-digital rights fields.

At heart, my and many others, concern is that this is not a democratic or social representation of how the people wish their culture, knowledge and medicine to be (or not be) regulated. It is feared that it over-represents corporate monopolies and their claim to financial profit at the expense of civil liberties and humanitarian issues.

In short - agendas are no longer being set by the people, but by corporations and non representative arms of government.

Many of these concerns are echoed by Mr Kadir Arif, who I am sure you are aware, has resigned in protest.

I will confess that my defence of digital rights are more informed than that of generic medicines. I will be satisfied that your assurances have substance when NGO's such as Doctor's without borders, OXFAM and Health Action International start publicly endorsing ACTA as a progressive framework.

Until then, will you please try and look past the labour you have put into the creation of this agreement, and see it from the perspective of us, the people, who in a very short time-frame, have become victim to financial and now potentially informational/rights/medicinal groups which do not represent us or our best interests.

Regards,
***** ******

Alwyn Walker · 31-01-2012 4:53pm

Not stating an opinion but this article is relevent:

http://www.hotpress.com/archive/8628862.html

bobbytables · 31-01-2012 6:16pm

A quick question: What if a site owner/manager had an online service in which the software application (E.g. web app) driving that service was the target of an attack. In such an attack see the injection of content that could be interpreted as a means to facilitate the infringement of copyright. Now of course the site/owner manager could more easily remedy sporadic cases of such a breach if detected, but what if this keeps happening in viral fashion.

On one end of the scale you have countless sites/services around the world who do not have the resources (finance or other) to be anything but low hanging fruit in this scenario.

Does this then mean that web 2.0 only becomes feasible for the corporations?

ShooterSF · 31-01-2012 6:33pm

Alwyn Walker wrote: »

Not stating an opinion but this article is relevent:

http://www.hotpress.com/archive/8628862.html

Not really fair to claim the ISPs want piracy to prevail or that it does their bottom line better. I'm not sure but I'd say OscarBravo as someone that runs one could confirm, ISP's would much prefer if you had the internet for social networking, email and some light downloads rather than bandwidth hogging piracy.

As for google or yahoo or someone not suggesting any alternatives it's not their place but alternatives have and continue to be suggested. You only need look at Steam and what it's done for PC gaming as it has become easier to get a game on steam than to bother pirating. Similarly Netflix or Hulu Plus will help too. Yes piracy of TV shows and movies still happen but I'd wager many of these pirates use netflix now in Ireland (though connected to the US version) and then download what they can't get. Beat Piracy by providing a better service. "I don't want stuff for free but I won't wait months to get something released elsewhere" is one argument of pirates.
That's not to say you can ever eradicate piracy but you'll never eradicate it the other way either. The tipping point has come though where it is easier to pirate and often you get a better final product *cough* DVDs with unskipable anti-piracy ads versus rips without them or music with awkward drm *cough*

Citizen_Kane · 31-01-2012 6:37pm

Alwyn Walker wrote: »

Not stating an opinion but this article is relevent:

http://www.hotpress.com/archive/8628862.html

A very relevant article coming from a respected Irish music magazine. It is a long read, but worth it.

I do have some major points of contention:

The use of the 'Child Pornography argument'. This is nominated by me to be included as a topic in Godwin's Law. However well intentioned, if you mix in this highly emotive subject into topical debates regarding civil issues you are digging for emotive value. It deserves it's own forum and adult debate - not be used lightly.

Mr Stokes refers to ISP's in relation to the likes of Google, Facebook, Twitter etc. He does not seem to understand the concept of Internet Service Providers as companies who provide infrastructure and switching services for the internet - like a telephone exchange. I am sure that he would be willing to agree that it is important that telephone exchanges be free from monitoring and incorruptible by corporate interest.

He argues that this is a battle between the (incorrectly named as ISP) Goliath industry of Google, Facebook and the likes against the David of the entertainment industry - citing monetary values measured in billions. What he fails to grasp is that the public don't give a toss about these industries and their billions. The backlash against Google and Facebook and peoples right to privacy and content is coming. People are educating themselves and starting to learn.

A casual reader could be led to believe from the tone of the article that companies like Google and Facebook built the internet to make money out of advertising revenue. Mr Stokes fails to acknowledge (or understand) that the internet was built altruistically and was designed to operate under the ideology of free.

Mr Stokes fails to acknowledge or even mention the existence of efforts to provide a progressive legal framework for the protection of artists rights to income, such ascreative commons.

Overall, the article reads to me like it was written by someone with long-standing involvement in the music industry, nostalgia for the 'good old days' of the industry and zero understanding of the dynamics and socio-political import of the internet.

Sorry Mr Stokes for the criticism - I know you are a good guy.

DeVore · 31-01-2012 6:40pm

Stephen Donnelly and Catherine Murphy have put forward an alternative SI which at least curbs the worst excesses of this overly hasty foolishness...

http://www.stephendonnelly.ie/featured/statement-the-alternative-to-sherlocks-sopa-law/

Here's hoping the government/minister has the wisdom to accept this.

MOH · 31-01-2012 6:53pm

Dear God. It looks like there's about 6 TDs in.

The rest must be at the recently organised Freebeermusicfestorama in Stephen's Green, courtesy of EMI.

VinLieger · 31-01-2012 7:04pm

Just off the phone with Mary Mitchell O Connor whos one of my locals, made my points very clear about whats wrong and how sherlock and brutons unmoving attitudes are only exacerbating the situation.
One major point she mentioned is how many e-mails everyone in there has receieved, she didnt complain but she did say how it has almost become an unmanageable situation trying to deal with them all especially since so many of them are exactly the same cut and paste jobs from templates here or from stopsopaireland.com.
Main positive to take away is that we deffinitely are being heard, now whether they are listening is the other question

MOH · 31-01-2012 7:06pm

Sherlock starting now.

Bodhran · 31-01-2012 7:08pm

Sean Sherlock is speaking now on the proposed amendment to Section 40 of the Copyright & Related Rights Act 2000. Transmission now on UPC Channel 801.