An open letter from Boards.ie to Minister Sean Sherlock

MOH

AdamD wrote: »

I don't know much about how these things work so would appreciate some help;

How is this supposed to get passed? Does it get voted on? Because even within the TDs he seems on his own here, surely if he still proceeds to pass this, democracy is out the window.

He just signs it. There is no democracy.

PJTierney

And that's that, let's see where it goes from here.

Jev/N

AdamD wrote: »

I don't know much about how these things work so would appreciate some help;

How is this supposed to get passed? Does it get voted on? Because even within the TDs he seems on his own here, surely if he still proceeds to pass this, democracy is out the window.

If it is kept in its current form - a Statutory Instrument (secondary legislation) - he can just sign it and its law. No debate. No vote. Nothing

wiseguy

"we are not changing the wording"

I wont forget that come next election local or national :mad:
Do you hear me Labour (and FG for that matter) scum?

Jev/N

Did he just say at the end that he wasn't going to change the wording?

Has he not learned anything from the past few weeks? What is the point in any of these debates or proposed meetings if he's just shut his ears from Day 1?

Voy

Can't really see the point in him consulting with the technical group and their legal team if he's not going to make any changes anyway.

wiseguy

Jev/N wrote: »

Did he just say at the end that he wasn't going to change the wording?

Has he not learned anything from the past few weeks? What is the point in any of these debates or proposed meetings if he's just shut his ears from Day 1?

He did in his concluding sentence

Here you go people "democracy" at work.

DeVore

I envy the people of Wicklow. Well done Stephen Donnelly (and to be fair, Catherine Murphy and Willie O'Dea too)... they've done their bit. Lets see if we can help things along ... stay tuned. We're not shutting down of course btw... Not while there is a red cent in my pocket or breath in my body.

skelliser

DeVore wrote: »

I envy the people of Wicklow. Well done Stephen Donnelly (and to be fair, Catherine Murphy and Willie O'Dea too)... they've done their bit. Lets see if we can help things along ... stay tuned.

If Stephen Donnellys claim that boards will close is correct well then its time the boards team went public thru the news media.
Time to ring up RTE!!

AlmightyCushion

skelliser wrote: »

If Stephen Donnellys claim that boards will close is correct well then its time the boards team went public thru the news media.
Time to ring up RTE!!

It's not a guaranteed fact. If this gets signed into law tomorrow, it's not as if boards will be taken offline. It certainly is a possibility that boards could be blocked thanks to this idiotic law.

DeVore

You think the existing media *like* us?? We allow people to talk back to them. To criticise them. To point out their cosy relationships. We feed from the same trough of advertisers. They'd be glad to see that thorn out of their side.

Anyway, its a long road and we're prepared for this fight. In some ways now, we're immune after that debate... which Big Content is going to be the first up to be brave enough to injunct us now?


Want some irony?? Realistically we are fighting for the sites who would compete with us. We're fighting for the little "boards's's" of the future.

MOH

Depressing side note - in a debate on legislation which could have severe implications for privacy issues:

a) only 9 TDs spoke, by my count
b) 6 of those have websites which are in breach of data protection requirements by not providing a privacy statement. Two others didn't have any kind of contact form, and the last one seemed to only have a party website, which did have a privacy statement.

Citizen_Kane

DeVore wrote: »

You think the existing media *like* us?? We allow people to talk back to them. To criticise them. To point out their cosy relationships. We feed from the same trough of advertisers. They'd be glad to see that thorn out of their side.

Anyway, its a long road and we're prepared for this fight. In some ways now, we're immune after that debate... which Big Content is going to be the first up to be brave enough to injunct us now?


Want some irony?? Realistically we are fighting for the sites who would compete with us. We're fighting for the little "boards's's" of the future.

I am busy building a small start-up using Free and Open Source Software. Frankly, I am more than concerned that big players like Microsoft could abuse this Instrument.

Software patent and copyright litigation is a multi-million international business composed mostly of spurious claims and counter claims.

If they were to seek an injunction against IP addresses which provide for eg. Linux updates and security patches (which they could as they already claim about 200 infringing lines of code in Linux kernel) I could be dead in the water.

Spacedog

Jev/N wrote: »

If it is kept in its current form - a Statutory Instrument (secondary legislation) - he can just sign it and its law. No debate. No vote. Nothing

Does if have to be ratified by the Seanad?

If so then they are the next port of call, it is their role to stop elected governments doing stupid stuff like this.

If not, then Seanad reform is needed. Not FG policy of abolishment, but a democratic entity with increased powers to act of a safety net in the case of a lone wolf TD passing bad legislation without consensus or resolution to the debate.

Sherlock basically finished the debate by saying "I've listened to everyone, now fuck you all, I said before the discussion, I'm signing it anyway" and bolted for the door.

Doc Ruby

Spacedog wrote: »

Does if have to be ratified by the Seanad?

The Seanad hasn't stopped anything ever I think, its social welfare for failed politicians, like the quangos.

Can this legislation be challenged in the Supreme court?

If not what are the steps to getting it repealed?

What is involved in getting a corruption investigation started, one not involving tribunals?

DeVore

Spacedog wrote: »

Does if have to be ratified by the Seanad?

If so then they are the next port of call, it is their role to stop elected governments doing stupid stuff like this.

If not, then Seanad reform is needed. Not FG policy of abolishment, but a democratic entity with increased powers to act of a safety net in the case of a lone wolf TD passing bad legislation without consensus or resolution to the debate.

Sherlock basically finished the debate by saying "I've listened to everyone, now fuck you all, I said before the discussion, I'm signing it anyway" and bolted for the door.

Yeah.

How do you like your participatory democracy now Ireland?

#soangry

Spacedog

Doc Ruby wrote: »

The Seanad hasn't stopped anything ever I think, its social welfare for failed politicians, like the quangos.

I agree, we need a new safety net as this point illustrates, the Seanad should not be abolished without an alternative to prevent what we just saw today. It's worth remembering come referendum time, what TDs do with unrestricted power.

If he signs it, I'm sure it can be reversed/revised later. But this is a perfect example of the attitude behind the ACTA treaty currently being forced through the European Parliament. I would advise people angry about this to keep looking at the Stop Sopa Ireland site in the days ahead,

The SI being the first battle of a long war to defend our freedoms, of thought and expression.

Screw this... I'm breaking out the big guns...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3oz0zhEwZk

FREEDOM! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!

wiseguy

Sean Sherlocks (and the current governments with regard to other issues)

excuse has been "The EU made us do it"



Which raises the question as to why we need so many well paid and pensioned middle level beuracratic rubber stampers? Including Sean Sherlock himself.

Btw keep an eye on his career, if he gets a job in the music etc industry few years down the road then it will become quite obvious that something fishy has occurred.

[-0-]

I'm so angry right now. I love Ireland. Like so many others, I had to leave because the European banks never asked the likes of Anglo what they were doing lending so much money. They let Anglo run wild, and wild they did. The economy suffered big time, with approximately 15% unemployment. People blame the bankers but I blame the EU. They gave us a bailout at a profit to themselves (they had to), but the repayment plan is crippling the economy as well. Then what happens? They force ACTA on member states. One of our ministers pretends to discuss the issue and at the very end says "Well I'm not changing the wording anyway!".

The great Firewall of Ireland is being built by the EUSSR. Romantic Ireland is dead and gone. It's with O'Leary in the grave.

Citizen_Kane

TJ McIntyre: We know that blocking and three-strikes type laws don't work and in any event are easily evaded. We've also seen that consumers are happy to pay for services such as Netflix and to buy via iTunes. Digital downloads are taking off. There will inevitably be some leakage - but not enough to justify undermining the fabric of the internet. In the 1970s, the movie industry saw VCRs as the equivalent of the Boston Strangler. In the 1980s, the music industry tried to ban the double cassette recorder. In those cases they failed, but now they again seek to prohibit new technology - but this time in a way which presents much greater risk to civil liberties. By seeking to control the internet they seek to destroy the elements of the internet which guarantee freedom of expression and privacy - and worse, to do so in a way which won't achieve its intended result.

Citizen_Kane

Here comes the conspiracy theory, so forgive me Jeebus.

2 weeks ago I was a happy little camper worrying about the economy, work and the neighbours cat making a pest of itself. Today my head is full off SOPA, PIPA, SI's and even the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

It is so much for a citizen to consume at once and I don't think the timing is all co-incidental. There is a concerted global effort to put controls on the free internet. This is pre-empting mass democratic action in a bankrupt world with dwindling resources and fuel supplies.

The powers that be are going to tell you it is about copyright, about common standards, about promoting trade, about preventing child porn, about rights and fairness. The mainstream media is not going to tell you anything, and if they do, you won't be able to answer back.

Thank Lucifer for this SI thing. At least it has got us talking and building resistance.

AntiRip

Would the video above of braveheart now have to be taken down because of this law? Is this how bad its going to get?

DeVore

You shouldnt over estimate our government, they really are this incapable.

I've been working behind the scenes on this thing and its just a cluster-f*ck and headless chickenism.

They paid 1,250M euros, predominantly to French banks last week before this ever took off, so (unlike the "arrest" of Ivor Callely) this isnt a mis-direction attempt.

DeVore

AntiRip wrote: »

Would the video above of braveheart now have to be taken down because of this law? Is this how bad its going to get?

The biggest problem with this law is that we dont know. But the actual answer to your question is "yes, its possible because there are no constraints what so ever on the basis on which an injunction can be sought".

Daftendirekt

What pisses me off about this whole thing more than anything else is how deeply entrenched this whole "ISP's are responsible for what other people do with the Internet" attitude is becoming.

The SI and EU directive can pay all the lip service to notions of fairness they want, but if the mere conduit principle is simply thrown by the wayside when it becomes inconvenient for EMI, then it all becomes meaningless. If copyright owners are forced to go after infringers directly, they have to deal with inconveniences like the courts and due process. Silly little things like that. But of course, it's much easier to go for the service providers. They aren't obliged to provide Internet access to anyone, or to permit access to any website, so there's nothing to stop them from giving your website the Pirate Bay treatment without even giving you a chance to plead your case.

Ugh.

<shakes fist vigorously>

Spacedog

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIc6jZ5abW8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNZuatGwWGI

I asked in the comments for the uploader to share the entire debate, including Sherlocks arrogant response.
Shame on RTE News, once again, asleep at the wheel.

Citizen_Kane

For the twitter'ers, check out:

#IAmAKeyboardWarrior

Priceless!

AntiRip

Can't get my head around the law at all its so stupid, it's like my subconscious keeps telling me it can't be true but it is.

So what's next, a phone company having to monitor voice calls incase someone sings a song down the phone :rolleyes:

Hilt

Daftendirekt wrote: »

What pisses me off about this whole thing more than anything else is how deeply entrenched this whole "ISP's are responsible for what other people do with the Internet" attitude is becoming.

To blame IPSs for what users look at is based on extremely flawed logic. That's like blaming phone companies for drug problems because drug dealers use their networks to communicate. Do we see Eircom, Vodafone, Meteor...etc in trouble because drug dealers use their networks? No. Why? Because that wouldn't make any sense. It doesn't make sense to blame ISPs either...but it is convenient.

Blaming ISPs is simply a cop out. It's sweeping dust under the carpet. It's a quick "solution" that makes things look tidy at a glance but upon further inspection the reality is it's just moving the problem elsewhere.

Citizen_Kane

AntiRip wrote: »

Can't get my head around the law at all its so stupid, it's like my subconscious keeps telling me it can't be true but it is.

So what's next, a phone company having to monitor voice calls incase someone sings a song down the phone :rolleyes:

If ASCAP had a say, yes. (ASCAP represents song writers)

They tried to sue the Girl Scouts for camp fire singalong violation.

I kid you not.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/17/ny...ted=all&src=pm

http://jamesvdelong.com/articles/ip/best-things.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...and_Publishers