An open letter from Boards.ie to Minister Sean Sherlock

briany

KyussBishop wrote: »

Would love to see them try and block Tor (though the cynic in me says that stuff will follow before too long). Prove it's impractical, go some way to showing how pointless it is, and that you're only left with all the negatives of such laws, without having any positive effects.

How practical would it be to block something like Tor? Furthermore what's the practicality of blocking the most commonly used methods to get around blocks? Do proxy sites have a common component of their coding that could be used to identify them in a blanket block? Could we see websites linking to software that helps circumvent blocks be themselves blocked? How long could we expect such hypothetical, dreadful and draconian methods to significantly curtail downloading?

Citizen_Kane

One of the fun examples among all the copyright fuss is the extreme example of copyright claims made by AT&T some time in the 1980s. It's the /bin/true program. This is a "dummy" library program whose main function is to make it easy to write infinite loops (while true do ...) in shells scripts. The "true" program does nothing; it merely exits with a zero exit status. This can be done with an empty file that's marked executable, and that's what it was in the earliest unix system libraries. Such an empty file will be interpreted as a shell script that does nothing, and since it does this successfully, the shell exits with a zero exit status. But AT&T's lawyers decided that this was worthy of copyright protection.

Link and credit to article here.

Imagine little gremlins similar to these coming to bite us?
I don't think that Sean Sherlock has even considered the code that runs things on the internet.

KyussBishop

To block Tor you would either need to try and block all IP's on the network, which is impractical, or do deep packet inspection to detect Tor; generally though, it is not practically possible to block Tor.

To block general proxies, you'd need to try block all IP's associated with them, thus, not practical; probably not a good way to determine them through packet inspection.

The main idea of such a plugin is to have something that just installs and works, so people don't need technical knowledge outside of the plugin (much like MafiaaFire); the problem with a lot of public proxies though is performance is quite bad.

Citizen_Kane

KyussBishop wrote: »

To block Tor you would either need to try and block all IP's on the network, which is impractical, or do deep packet inspection to detect Tor; generally though, it is not practically possible to block Tor.

To block general proxies, you'd need to try block all IP's associated with them, thus, not practical; probably not a good way to determine them through packet inspection.

The main idea of such a plugin is to have something that just installs and works, so people don't need technical knowledge outside of the plugin (much like MafiaaFire); the problem with a lot of public proxies though is performance is quite bad.

The logic of TOR as I understand it is that it uses kind of a P2P ip obfuscation. By routing the request through a number of random peers and selecting a random exit node, the originating request is hidden and thus anonymity is maintained.

I have tried it. By it's very nature it slows down your internet experience. (and you can't run javascript through it for some or other obscure reason). Besides, the good people who build it request that it not be used frivolously. It is intended for the likes of journalists and activists in oppressive regimes. If the public went on it in a large scale way - it could crash.

That said - seems Sean Sherlock may be taking us down the oppressive regime route.

If he thought the internet was a scary thing, wait till he sees the darknet. He will poop his pants. I did. Serious bad JU JU down there that will make your toes curl. Nothing there to limit the kind of abuses people justifiably fear and which are socially manageable on a free internet. This is where the good citizens of Ireland could be driven to seek their freedom.

Dear Mr Sherlock,

Let's keep the internet free and lets be mature about it. Let's at least do our 'criminal' activity and 'slandering' out in the open where everybody can see it and take a social responsibility over protecting peoples rights.

Let's not naively start a censorship regime Mr Sherlock.

KyussBishop

Ya you are right about Tor, it is a specialist network with limited resources; I'll be consulting them about it at least, as would need to during development.

K-9

Signed, nearly 80,000 signatures.

Takes 100,000 in the UK for a parliamentary debate as happened with a petition for Hillsborough and the release of information for it. 100,000 internet votes in a population of about 60 Million, 80,000 here with 4 million and treated with disdain.

Sums up the condescending attitude just about right and O'Dea would be doing the exact opposite in power, same as Sherlock in opposition.

Citizen_Kane

KyussBishop wrote: »

Ya you are right about Tor, it is a specialist network with limited resources; I'll be consulting them about it at least, as would need to during development.

Interesting thought here now which just invaded my head:

You can help out the TOR network as a charitable act by donating your bandwidth and infrastructure:
https://www.torproject.org/docs/tor-doc-relay.html.en

Basically - you become an 'exit node' for anyone on the network. That being that - you are as good as a VPN proxy for anyone exiting through you and your IP is identified for the connection onwards.

A 'reporters without borders' kind of guy is homesick and downloads some tellie 'illegally' because he can't get anything where he is. Your IP is identified by Enda's friends at the MPAA and an injunction is taken out against you. You are guilty - that is fact. Your IP says so.

As far as I can understand, this is a feasible and likely scenario? So much for charity and reason.

KyussBishop

Pretty much, except that ISP customers can't be targeted like that. If someone downloads child porn through your exit node though, and your IP comes to the attention of the police, good luck defending yourself in court.

briany

Citizen_Kane wrote: »

I have tried it. By it's very nature it slows down your internet experience. (and you can't run javascript through it for some or other obscure reason). Besides, the good people who build it request that it not be used frivolously. It is intended for the likes of journalists and activists in oppressive regimes. If the public went on it in a large scale way - it could crash.

If he thought the internet was a scary thing, wait till he sees the darknet. He will poop his pants. I did. Serious bad JU JU down there that will make your toes curl. Nothing there to limit the kind of abuses people justifiably fear and which are socially manageable on a free internet. This is where the good citizens of Ireland could be driven to seek their freedom.

I know that it isn't exactly a proscribed use of Tor but I, like many others, have pointed the program at a UK exit node to watch something on iPlayer from time to time and while it didn't initially play nice with the Javescript on there, you can get it to work but I know that enabling it can have an impact on anonymity and therefore is undesirable to those using it for that reason.

I think that a lot of people would be quite hesitant to use the dark net, unless they were really pushed, because A) they don't know what it is exactly and also, much more importantly, it's thought of as a safe haven for all kinds of things, a place where child pornographers, virus writers and all kinds of other nasty parties run free. Ordinary people don't want to mess with that crap and rightly so. I know I don't. As you say, bad ju-ju.

Citizen_Kane wrote: »

A 'reporters without borders' kind of guy is homesick and downloads some tellie 'illegally' because he can't get anything where he is. Your IP is identified by Enda's friends at the MPAA and an injunction is taken out against you. You are guilty - that is fact. Your IP says so.

I think this is why they are going for ISP level blocks, because an IP address showing that you acted as a node, or downloaded a song may show that your computer did it, but in the real world there's not always a way that they can prove who was operating the thing at the time unless they start calling on witnesses and alibis. It was an inefficient method to begin with but once this point was being raised, it made it look quite farcical.

Citizen_Kane

KyussBishop wrote: »

Pretty much, except that ISP customers can't be targeted like that. If someone downloads child porn through your exit node though, and your IP comes to the attention of the police, good luck defending yourself in court.

OK, but if you are donating to this kind of charity you would likely be a ISP or at very least have a fixed IP. If the burden of responsibility is now on you to shut down something further down the pipeline which is impossible to identify? You're gonna have to give up on charity if they don't shut you down.

Interestingly enough, this is how the 'darknet' operates:
Anybody who is a node on the relay network such as TOR can host a site. Because these sites are all before an internet exit node - they are all invisible. They are NOT the internet. They are identified by an encrypted, self generated hash/ public key pair. There is no DNS - so you need a key to get to the site. I don't understand it properly, but an explanation is here.

There is really no way to identify who owns or operates a site and from where. Payments to such sites can be done 100% anonymously via Bitcoin. This is 100% out of the reach of Sean Sherlock and Michael Noonan for that matter.

As most adults in the world understand, there is black and white and a million colours in-between. Even if you could - this thing should not be shut down. It is a child of oppression and censorship and provides freedom where there is none - but it is also a vehicle of oppression and abuse. To illustrate mildly.

Here is my point: Here is a black market where anything and everything including children could be bought and sold in complete safety. The network around this is being made increasingly accessible and popular because of censorship, monitoring and threats to internet freedoms. Surely this is only going to fuel the market?

It really is time for us to say enough is enough with all the inteference with our internet, which in its free state really is just a big yellow pages and everyone, somewhere, has a listing. If we go down another route we really are digging a hole for ourselves as a species.

Spacedog

don't know if it's been posted yet, I'm in work so can't check, but this should contain the whitewash debate...

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=20208&&CatID=130

If we can cut/paste the relevant section to youtube, and share with theregister, slashdot, boingboing and ars technica, we can demonstrate the attitude of passing these IP laws in Ireland, and is may help people prepare in more democratic and fair countries.

antoinolachtnai

Don't give up yet! There is still time to act.

1. Go to http://stopsopaireland.com/ . Make the pledge.

2. Ring your local government TDs and make an appointment to see your TD, as soon as possible. Let them know what it is about.

3. Go and see your TD. There are some hints on http://stopsopaireland.com/files/2012/02/TDhelpsheet.pdf

4. Even if you don't know your TD, or have never done anything like this before, you can do this. You are a voter or potential voter and your TD wants to know what you think. The only things you have to know about to do this effectively are courtesy, professionalism and respect.

Muzzier23

Signed

NewHillel

KyussBishop wrote: »

Would love to see them try and block Tor (though the cynic in me says that stuff will follow before too long). Prove it's impractical, go some way to showing how pointless it is, and that you're only left with all the negatives of such laws, without having any positive effects.

Ever wonder why your traffic always seems to be routed through specific, high capacity nodes? TOR is not as secure as you might think!

KyussBishop

^^ True but it depends upon the node, and as long as that high-traffic node is the the first or last node on your connection, then you are protected by (n/2) layers of encryption, where n is the number of nodes your data is being relayed through


On the wider topic of US influence on copyright laws, I recommend people check this information I discovered:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76879109

bedrock#1

So is anyone going to get into the city today for the protest?

infowars.com

what time and where abouts in town is it m8?

antoinolachtnai

If you can do one thing today before you go, go to see at least one of your TDs, along with the other thousand people all over the country who are playing their part. If you can't do it today because there is no clinic on, then ring their office, leaving a voice message looking for an appointment to talk about The Irish SOPA law.

It is really important to do this this weekend. It will make a big difference for the cabinet meeting next week.

bedrock#1

infowars.com wrote: »

what time and where abouts in town is it m8?

Garden of Rememberance at 1pm going to the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation - think the march starts moving at 1.20pm

ToadVine

The Slovenian ambassador has just apologised for signing ACTA http://techpresident.com/news/21727/slovenian-ambassador-apologizes-signing-acta-poland-halts-ratification

Spacedog

ToadVine wrote: »

The Slovenian ambassador has just apologised for signing ACTA http://techpresident.com/news/21727/slovenian-ambassador-apologizes-signing-acta-poland-halts-ratification

What is the actual Irish signatory on the ACTA treaty would me nice to drop him/her a mail to remind them of their civic responsibilities.

nesf

And the optics begins: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0204/1224311250553.html

AntiRip

nesf wrote: »

And the optics begins: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0204/1224311250553.html

So it's only teenagers worried about not getting things for free is contacting him :rolleyes:

KyussBishop

nesf wrote: »

And the optics begins: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0204/1224311250553.html

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, idk I don't follow Irish politics or papers much, but that's a shamefully one sided, stenographical article and should not have been printed without critical reply.

Do the Irish Times accept (and actually put up) articles from outside submitters, or only stuff hidden away in the 'letters' section?

Anyone with the writing talents and knowledge of the subject, would do well to spend the time writing up articles to submit to various papers; can't let there be a completely one-sided picture of things in the papers/media.

EDIT: While on the topic, are there any newspapers or whatnot in Ireland that are actually good? What sources are there with actual decent journalism in 'the media'?

meglome

KyussBishop wrote: »

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, idk I don't follow Irish politics or papers much, but that's a shamefully one sided, stenographical article and should not have been printed without critical reply.

Do the Irish Times accept (and actually put up) articles from outside submitters, or only stuff hidden away in the 'letters' section?

Anyone with the writing talents and knowledge of the subject, would do well to spend the time writing up articles to submit to various papers; can't let there be a completely one-sided picture of things in the papers/media.

I'd agree totally. They should have sought another view because the majority of the people who contacted him were not abusive I'd safely say.

TheZohanS

ToadVine wrote: »

The Slovenian ambassador has just apologised for signing ACTA http://techpresident.com/news/21727/slovenian-ambassador-apologizes-signing-acta-poland-halts-ratification

Too little too late. She only apologised after she got grief and a backlash.

Apparently she was flooded by emails and messaged from Slovenian citizens that criticized the treaty's ratification. On her personal blog, she then acknowledged that online protests raised concerns about a treaty that she now defines as “damaging to the state and citizens."

It's nothing more than a PR exercise.

Spacedog

My messages to him were very polite, well thought out and considered his position carefully. maybe if I'd gone and called him a bollocks he'd have gotten back to me to discuss the issue in detail.

SD.

AdamD

Sherlock is an arsehole.

Edg3

Only reason hes getting away with it is because no one is getting onto him about it. and its not being brought up like the banks stuff. They can do what they want long as they dont tell anyone what their doing!

Lemming

Edg3 wrote: »

Only reason hes getting away with it is because no one is getting onto him about it.

He'll be hauled across coals (and I'd petition for it to be a national spectacle if it were ever to come to chance god forbid) if/when facebook/google/ebay et.al make public announcements that they are "reviewing" their Irish operations over grave concerns about poorly drafted legalities if they see court shenanigans that do not sit well with them, with a potential cost of thousands of jobs and a very large wedge of both personal & corporate tax revenues for the state.

And all to satisfy a single industry at the expensive of the state, its people, and any other industry or commercial enterprise. An industry that has shown itself time & again over the last fifteen years to have absolutely no moral compass and a complete willingness to lie and abuse any legal processes available; and then to lie some more to try and get more legal processes handed to them by courting politicians.