Did Enda Kenny blame the Irish people for the crisis?

seanknowsall

Gmol wrote: »

It would be interesting to know how many here who took out mortgages either
A) lied on their mortgage application about their earnings
borrowed money based on them having a 5% or 8% which was actually borrowed from the credit union

Good point Gmol......

sensibleken

Enda to us: "You are not to blame for this"

Enda to the people we rely on to help us out of this:"Those guys at homes are to blame for it"

Feck off. I never borrowed one red cent in my life yet he's labling me with this shít. 'The good times' as everyone keeps calling it was the most difficult time for low paid workers like myself. Cost of living was skyrocketing. rents, food, bills everything but we kept within our means. Now we're, and people just trying to put a roof over their families house, are being blamed along with property developers. just get fúcked Enda

PABSIreland

Enda forgets that it was the then government who set up and appointed an incompetent Financial Regulators office to monitor "all lending" on the island which clearly failed at.

Thereafter, it was the then governments decision to stoke the "greed" furnance with the policies that they came up with and implemented such as tax incentive properties and over generous tax deductions against rental income.

When our highly educated commentators warned that they were causing a bubble, they were met with outragous comments from the then government such as "why don't they commit suicide".

The banks pressured and actively encouraged customers of all ages, background and the financial illiterate, completely disregarding the basics of all lending principles breaching every Consumer Protection & Financial Regulators Code "advising" customers to borrow money that they didn't need. Again our government, financial regulator and everyone else knew it was going on and turned a blind eye to it.

Whilst some here think it is the peoples fault, I ask you this. Can you tell me who sets the curriculum in schools and makes economics or finance a mandatory part of our basic education system? It would be interesting to ask Leaving Cerificate students to explain what a mortgage is and how it works. How many would know. Did you when you left school?

Secondly, a governments job is to led, protect its people and defend them against "all enemies" which they have clearly failed at and Enda Kenny is continuing on the same course. The "real greed" here is the self serving, bribe taking hypocrites that call themselves our leaders.

All of us Irish people, who did or didn't borrow money, are in it together and our great elected leaders will prove this to us all as they continue to take your hard earned money and do with it as they choose.

Leslie91

mattser wrote: »

Kenny is absolutely correct. And for those who are whining " I didn't borrow a cent ", read what he said. He says people, not all the people.
And he looks and sounds well in an early morning interview.

Agree.

(although I can't comment on how well he sounded/looked this morning)

Enda is not the problem lads. I still put most of this mess at the door of Bertie and FF.

TheChizler

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Xenophile wrote: »

So he left out the word "some." So what is this big hoohaa about?

Try leaving out the word "some" when referring to a country or race and see how you get on!

"All Roma are thieves"
"All Nigerians are spongers"
"All travellers are drunken idiots"
(*not my actual views)
"All politicians are corrupt, self-serving fvcks"

That's not leaving out a word, that's replacing it.

starbelgrade

Regardless of whether Kenny meant some people or all people, to stand up in front of an international audience & say that it was the greed of the people and the banks that fucked up the country is only a half telling of the story.

The full story of a property boom fuelled by government tax incentives & re-zoning of land (supported at the time by Fine Gael), of poor banking regulation & a failure of the government or opposition parties to to actually do their jobs properly was never mentioned by Kenny.

Kenny told the truth. But he only told some of the truth.

In so many ways the "some" that he left out of his statement tells so much more than the little he put into it.

phil1nj

seanknowsall wrote: »

I think we need to accept a certain degree of responsibility here...........................................................................................

well I having the last laugh now... One of those gob****es lost his business, wife and two kids... another is in rented accomodation after losing the house... I tipped away quietly and ran up no bills and I luckily still have my job and am buying a place this year.... great bargain it is!!!

Bit of a mixed message here from you. Why do we need to accept a certain degree of responsibility when not everyone (yourself included judging by the last lines of your post) didn't go mad in the boom years?But yesterday Mr. Kenny saw fit to tar everyone with the same brush depsite saying the exact opposite in his stae of the nation address at the end of last year? Yes, SOME people were greedy, SOME people totally lost the run of themselves, SOME people thought the good times would never ended and borrowed accordingly and ended up in the situation you outlined above (I've very little sympathy for these people BTW) yet we ALL are now paying the price for it. But when the leader of our country speaks up at an international forum and says something like this about the people of Ireland (not SOME of the people - one small word could have saved him a great deal of hardship) your piss does tend to boil a bit.

The man is an idiot and a hypocrite for saying this on such a platform and everyone who didn't go mad during the boom years has every right to call him out on his remarks.

Chips Lovell

starbelgrade wrote: »

The full story of a property boom fuelled by government tax incentives & re-zoning of land (supported at the time by Fine Gael), of poor banking regulation & a failure of the government or opposition parties to to actually do their jobs properly was never mentioned by Kenny

And who enthusiastically voted for those people again and again?

Park Royal

Gmol wrote: »

It would be interesting to know how many here who took out mortgages either
A) lied on their mortgage application about their earnings
borrowed money based on them having a 5% or 8% which was actually borrowed from the credit union

How many people believe we are all in this together.....?


are we all going to get a pension of €107,000 per annum.....at 52.....

paid for by our taxes........or is it just a few who have not paid anything

into the pension pot get such pensions.......( were all in it together, me xxxx)

starbelgrade

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

And who enthusiastically voted for those people again and again?

Fianna Fail?

Less than half the country in successive elections.

phil1nj

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

And who enthusiastically voted for those people again and again?

I don't honestly know but I'd bet that a fair few of them are on here now supporting what Enda said last night as it eases their conscience a bit.

Crazy Horse 6

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i'm sure it was a generalisation, he MAY have been referreing to those who contributed to the situation

I did'nt contribute to it so why the broad generalisation then. It's disgusting that he would use such language.

Crazy Horse 6

starbelgrade wrote: »

Regardless of whether Kenny meant some people or all people, to stand up in front of an international audience & say that it was the greed of the people and the banks that fucked up the country is only a half telling of the story.

The full story of a property boom fuelled by government tax incentives & re-zoning of land (supported at the time by Fine Gael), of poor banking regulation & a failure of the government or opposition parties to to actually do their jobs properly was never mentioned by Kenny.

Kenny told the truth. But he only told some of the truth.

In so many ways the "some" that he left out of his statement tells so much more than the little he put into it.

Yeap he's a coward plain and simple.

im invisible

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

And who enthusiastically voted for those people again and again?

can i just ask who you voted for? I dont understand what kind of person asks a question like this...

cadaliac

mattser wrote: »

Kenny is absolutely correct. And for those who are whining " I didn't borrow a cent ", read what he said. He says people, not all the people.
And he looks and sounds well in an early morning interview.

Jesus, what a crock of sh1t.
Are you for real?

hawkelady

mattser wrote: »

Kenny is absolutely correct. And for those who are whining " I didn't borrow a cent ", read what he said. He says people, not all the people.
And he looks and sounds well in an early morning interview.

Morning Mr Phil Hogan !!!!

SafeSurfer

Enda Kenny was just repeating the mantra of - the Irish people are to blame, the Irish people will pay all their debts regardless of the consequences.

He could not say that the Irish people are paying bondholders and picking up the tab for incompetent bankers so that the large banks of France, Germany and the UK don't have to take a hit on THEIR losses.

Sure the state is spending more than we take in in taxes and that gap has to be bridged. However private banks should have been forced to take their losses, even after we recapitalised the banks they refused to write down any debt that had already been covered by the taxpayer.

The massive majority won by FG/LAB after the election was a mandate to stand up for the Irish people and renegotiate the debt on our behalf, as they promised.

There has been a complete VOTLE FACE since they got elected. They claim credit for a reduction in the interest rate that came about due to Greek protesters.

They have all the hallmarks of a puppet regime who do not act in the interests of the Irish people.

A puppet state (also known as puppet government or marionette government) is a nominal sovereign of a state who is de facto controlled by a foreign power.[1] The term refers to a government controlled by the government of another country like a puppeteer controls the strings of a marionette.[2] A puppet state has also been described as an entity which in fact lacks independence, preserves all the external paraphernalia of independence, but in reality is only an organ of another state who has set it up and whose satellite it is.[3]

Noun1.puppet government - a government that is appointed by and whose affairs are directed by an outside authority that may impose hardships on those governed

casta

Seems to me the real issue is being completely ignored, particularly in the media.
Does anyone really believe that this man, (who reminded me of nothing more than Alan Partridge) has the balls or the intelligence to renegotiate his way out of a paper bag, let alone renegotiate the debt? How does it help his case when he tells the world's media that the Irish are greedy and stupid?

He's a lightweight who thinks he's clever, and his vanity appears to be growing by the day. When he's rehearsed, he just repeats his key phrases, regardless of the question and when he's caught off the hop, he's inarticulate and just plays to the audience.

He's a fool and a puppet, and it makes me cringe that this is the calibre of leader we have in this country.

Gmol

Gmol wrote: »

It would be interesting to know how many here who took out mortgages either
A) lied on their mortgage application about their earnings
borrowed money based on them having a 5% or 8% which was actually borrowed from the credit union

Park Royal wrote: »

How many people believe we are all in this together.....?


are we all going to get a pension of €107,000 per annum.....at 52.....

paid for by our taxes........or is it just a few who have not paid anything

into the pension pot get such pensions.......( were all in it together, me xxxx)

I don't get the point you are trying to make in response to my previous post

Anyone

The reasons we needed to be bailed out though was to

(1) Save the banks
(2) Fund the deficit

The banks did not collapse due to personal debt, they collapsed due to lending for property development and the fact that they were surviving themselves on borrowed funds from other banks, which collapsed during the worldwide banking crisis. None of this was the fault of the personal debt run by the Irish people.

Once our banking system collapsed, we(Ireland) became a risk, our ability to borrow on the bond markets was removed and we were effectively forced into a situation where we needed to borrow to fund our needs. Again, this has nothing to do with personal debt of the Irish people.


The problems of person debt in this country has become an issue because of the economic conditions in Ireland due to the fact that we had to friggin borrow from the IMF/EU to fix the initial issue(banks). Once the IMF/EU gave us this money, they attached conditions. Those conditions were that we fixed our deficit(this is not a bad thing), but its those conditions which have contributed to the overall problem(increased taxation, decreased spending).

token101

seanmc1980 wrote: »

but really how much does this make up of the counties debt?

It's a lot of it! They reckon €16 billion (or that's the amount quoted it would take to clear personal debt in the country).

The media seem to unable to dessiminate anything anyone ever says. They'll take two different statements in differing contexts, crash them together and make something of a s***** tabloid story from them. Ordinary people aren't to blame for the sovereign debt/ banking crisis, but some people went ridiculously overboard, buying overpriced houses taking on debts that were never sustainable. They got greedy.

So he's right on both counts. People just need to put what he said in context.

SafeSurfer

casta wrote: »

Seems to me the real issue is being completely ignored, particularly in the media.
Does anyone really believe that this man, (who reminded me of nothing more than Alan Partridge) has the balls or the intelligence to renegotiate his way out of a paper bag, let alone renegotiate the debt? How does it help his case when he tells the world's media that the Irish are greedy and stupid?

He's a lightweight who thinks he's clever, and his vanity appears to be growing by the day. When he's rehearsed, he just repeats his key phrases, regardless of the question and when he's caught off the hop, he's inarticulate and just plays to the audience.

He's a fool and a puppet, and it makes me cringe that this is the calibre of leader we have in this country.

Dont worry Casta he has a 5 point plan.

This is the 5 point plan

"Our five-point plan is like a five-pointed star. The one on our logo.

It gives clarity, light and direction to what will be a difficult journey to a better future ahead.

Point One - Protecting and creating jobs

Because jobs and opportunity are the best chance of keeping our best asset - our young people – at home.

We plan to create 20,000 new jobs a year over the next four years. How? By cutting employers’ PRSI, by creating a welfare system that encourages work and by investing an extra €7 billion from State pension funds and from the strategic sale of state assets into developing the key infrastructures that will make our economy competitive for the future.

In doing so, we can, by 2016, make Ireland the best small country in the world in which to do business.

Point Two - Introducing better, fairer budgets to keep taxes low

We will fix Ireland’s budget deficit by prioritising cutting waste, over raising taxes. Because high taxes kill jobs, we will keep taxes – particularly income taxes – down.

No country has ever taxed its way to economic recovery.

Point Three – we will create a completely new health system

Thanks to Micheal Martin’s creation of the HSE, €17 billion a year is currently spent on a health system that doesn’t work. That’s going to stop.
Our FairCare plan – modelled on the reformed Dutch health service - will cut waiting lists and end apartheid in our health service. With universal insurance, we’ll offer equal access to all. There’ll be more and better community care, meaning fewer hospital stays. Fewer hospital patients mean lower hospital costs for the taxpayer.

Point Four - smaller, better government with the people’s money spent wisely on vital public services

By streamlining systems, cutting red tape and abolishing quangos, we will reduce public-service costs by €5 billion. In making the system more efficient, we will protect the essential services provided by our teachers, nurses, doctors, Gardai and local government workers.


Point Five - a political system that achieves more and costs less, with the Government leading by example

We will cut the number of politicians by over a third. We will impose a ceiling on higher public service salaries.

We will introduce car pooling for ministers.

We will ensure proper accountability for decisions. A single-chamber parliamentary system, with powerful Dail committees, will hold Ministers to greater account

With our plan, when cuts are needed, they start at the top. When accountability is needed? It starts at the top. When sacrifice is needed? It starts at the top. Not with the blind, or the carers, or the poor. That’s example. "

tiny timy

(Q) Whats the difference between Bosco and Enda Kenny?

(A) The Nationality of the hand up the AR$E

Plazaman

sanbrafyffe wrote: »

well the truth has to be said and it is.irish people went over board borrowing so it shows ya the want in us as people.so ya hes blaming the irish people(not all) and the banks too.he cant be more right.well said enda

where do i go from here wrote: »

He's right to blame the Irish people. Not one person was given a loan against their will.

Anyone who doesn't realise that booms and recessions are part of a natural (economically at least) cycle shouldn't be trusted to go to the toilet on their own.

What's this "Irish People" shít? I didn't borrow nothin', I didn't get a mortgage and if you calculate the figure roughly based on THIS, neither did the about 2 million + other adults...... (shurrup it's Friday, I'm not doing the exact maths so here's some relevant stats..)

Mortgage activity is so weak that the numbers taking out a home loan between July and September is now just 7pc of the numbers issued during the height of the boom in 2006.

In the first nine months of this year, 10,417 mortgages were issued

Chucky the tree

Plazaman wrote: »

What's this "Irish People" shít? I didn't borrow nothin', I didn't get a mortgage and if you calculate the figure roughly based on THIS, neither did the about 2 million + other adults...... (shurrup it's Friday, I'm not doing the exact maths so here's some relevant stats..)

Well it's not just mortgages. Loans for new cars, holidays, a few credit cards, overdrafts etc. Then add in the Irish people who continuously voted for Fianna Fail and that's a lot of Irish people.

AudreyHepburn

While I'll admit it was a bit foolish of Enda to go back on what he said in his address I also think we need to face facts....he is right.

During the boom years half the country was borrowing like it was going out of fashion. We all know at least one person with mutiple properites/holiday homes. People were offered enormous loans and they took them. Nobody dragged them kicking and screaming to do so. And not just the bankers and developers either so lets stop scapegoating. We are not the poor innocent victims we would like to be.

Nothing will ever change in this country until we are willing to admit we made mistakes and accept we have to take the consequences now.

starbelgrade

Anyone wrote: »

The reasons we needed to be bailed out though was to

(1) Save the banks
(2) Fund the deficit

The banks did not collapse due to personal debt,

It's so much easier though to blame "the people". "The people" lost the run of themselves, "the people" got greedy etc etc.

It's all smoke & mirrors with politicians. Pass the buck, blame everyone else, never accept responsibilty.

I think we've come to accept that as the way with politicians - what I really don't understand though is a lot of people's willingness to accept these half truths & jump on the bandwagon of pointing the finger at the people who did run into trouble with personal debts.

It's a pointless & rather stupid exercise that says more about the level of understanding that they have about the situation than it does about anything else.

But as I said, it's always easier to blame "the people".

SafeSurfer

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

While I'll admit it was a bit foolish of Enda to go back on what he said in his address I also think we need to face facts....he is right.

During the boom years half the country was borrowing like it was going out of fashion. We all know at least one person with mutiple properites/holiday homes. People were offered enormous loans and they took them. Nobody dragged them kicking and screaming to do so. And not just the bankers and developers either so lets stop scapegoating. We are not the poor innocent victims we would like to be.

Nothing will ever change in this country until we are willing to admit we made mistakes and accept we have to take the consequences now.

Why did he refer to mad borrowing instead of mad lending. You cant have one without the other. Judging by the number of people who refused credit from banks during the boom, there was more madness to lend than to borrow.

SafeSurfer

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Well it's not just mortgages. Loans for new cars, holidays, a few credit cards, overdrafts etc. Then add in the Irish people who continuously voted for Fianna Fail and that's a lot of Irish people.

You wouldnt hear Obama tell an international audience that his perple went mad with borrowing and greed. Maybe Enda should copy more of his speeches.

token101

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's so much easier though to blame "the people". "The people" lost the run of themselves, "the people" got greedy etc etc.

It's all smoke & mirrors with politicians. Pass the buck, blame everyone else, never accept responsibilty.

I think we've come to accept that as the way with politicians - what I really don't understand though is a lot of people's willingness to accept these half truths & jump on the bandwagon of pointing the finger at the people who did run into trouble with personal debts.

It's a pointless & rather stupid exercise that says more about the level of understanding that they have about the situation than it does about anything else.

But as I said, it's always easier to blame "the people".

Well if you're one of the people who didn't get into debt, who rented, who saved and didn't take on 375K mortgages on 30,000 wages, it's equally as galling to listen to people blame everyone else, banks, regulators, government, before taking a look a mirror. Don't tell me it's ALL someone else's fault. F*** that. No one put a gun to their head. Own up and have some personal responsibility aswell. Mistakes were made by everybody, not just the government, banks, and regulators.

token101

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Why did he refer to mad borrowing instead of mad lending. You cant have one without the other. Judging by the number of people who refused credit from banks during the boom, there was more madness to lend than to borrow.

You're under no obligation to accept it. Does personal responsibility come into this anywhere?

Maximus Alexander

What a ludicrous statement. The vast majority of people are not economists or financial experts. The bank offers them money, they can easily make the repayments, so they take it. They have no idea what the large scale impact is going to be and they should not have to.

It's the lenders' job to make sure that they mind their own house. Blaming the people that they were throwing money at is beyond idiocy. Greed caused the problem, but it was the greed up at the top, not that of the ordinary person.

And this is coming from someone who is not in any debt, so I'm not deflecting the blame. Enda is slowly working his way up my list of Top Tools™.

phil1nj

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

While I'll admit it was a bit foolish of Enda to go back on what he said in his address I also think we need to face facts....he is right.

During the boom years half the country was borrowing like it was going out of fashion.

Nothing will ever change in this country until we are willing to admit we made mistakes and accept we have to take the consequences now.

As a member of the other half who didn't go mad during the boom, I ain't apologising for **** nor will I apologise for how I lived during those years. I am also not willing to admit that WE all made mistakes (why should I, along with the others who kept a level head during those years, admit to something we didn't do?). I will concede that certain people need to put theirhads up and admit that they made serious mistakes and as a result of their actions they have ensured that everybody now gets saddled with this ****e.

Crazy Horse 6

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

While I'll admit it was a bit foolish of Enda to go back on what he said in his address I also think we need to face facts....he is right. During the boom years half the country was borrowing like it was going out of fashion. We all know at least one person with mutiple properites/holiday homes. People were offered enormous loans and they took them. Nobody dragged them kicking and screaming to do so. And not just the bankers and developers either so lets stop scapegoating. We are not the poor innocent victims we would like to be.
Nothing will ever change in this country until we are willing to admit we made mistakes and accept we have to take the consequences now.

He is not right. Im sick of this mantra.

Anyone

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

While I'll admit it was a bit foolish of Enda to go back on what he said in his address I also think we need to face facts....he is right.

During the boom years half the country was borrowing like it was going out of fashion. We all know at least one person with mutiple properites/holiday homes. People were offered enormous loans and they took them. Nobody dragged them kicking and screaming to do so. And not just the bankers and developers either so lets stop scapegoating. We are not the poor innocent victims we would like to be.

Nothing will ever change in this country until we are willing to admit we made mistakes and accept we have to take the consequences now.

He's not right, peoples personal solvency and their ability to repay their debts has been affected by this crisis, it hasn't caused it. Theres a massive difference.

up for anything

Who the feck writes their speeches and doesn't stop to think of the reaction of the general populace?

There's the other eejit or is it eejits - could the same person have put their foot in it two weeks running with the gems, students should stay in education for as long as possible until the country gets back on it's feet and the young people of Ireland are going abroad for travel and broadening the mind experience.

They should sack the speech writers and the gob****es who actually say the stuff in public.

Knobheads the lot of them. :mad::mad::mad:

seanmc1980

again i have to point this out as people seem to bet getting caught up in their personal gripes with people who borrowed in the boom. Big deal people got carried away and your great for never borrowing but at present Ireland are in the Sh1ts because
1) The country is spending 20 bil a year more than they are taking in
2) The Country bailed out the banks.

Again its not the personal debt of the masses that caused us to go to the IMF.

AngryBollix

Anyone wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/kenny-mad-borrowing-sparked-crisis-537452.html

So, according to Enda, we are resoponsible for the current economic crisis. He can go and fúck himself if he is laying the blame on us, the Irish people. Between this and that other gog****e in Cork proposing that SOPA'esque bill, I cant help think that this shower are as bad as the last shower we got rid of.

We're not blameless either.

Any attempt to absolve the general populace of their portion of responsibility is futile.

AngryBollix

seanmc1980 wrote: »

again i have to point this out as people seem to bet getting caught up in their personal gripes with people who borrowed in the boom. Big deal people got carried away and your great for never borrowing but at present Ireland are in the Sh1ts because
1) The country is spending 20 bil a year more than they are taking in
2) The Country bailed out the banks.

Again its not the personal debt of the masses that caused us to go to the IMF.

Who did the bank lend to exactly?

Victor

patwicklow wrote: »

What about seanie,bertie,buffo,mccreevy the last gubberment? i never borrowed a cent and saved for all i have, kenny some cheeky fook wit how dare he insult us

Where do you think the banks got the money to lend to people? They borrowed it.

Enda Kenny said "people" borrowed money, not "the people" borrowed money.

Kolido

I think Enda is correct to a certain extent but please let me clarify my opinion. Some people borrowed over their heads durring the boom but as we are not financial economists, we didn't see the bigger picture. As for the banks giving out the loans, well they knew they would get their money even if they knew the dangers. So I think they should of had a stricter criteria for giving out loans as they should have more knowledge of the dangers of an economic collapse.
When Enda was making all these promises durring the election, people were foolish to believe him. Every government would have faced the same problems. You can't get blood from a stone and create jobs from nothing. So we should of known what to expect dispite all the promises.
As for Enda blaming us for the problems now, he is correct to a point but he shouldn't blame everyone and he should include the banks also. I think the arguement lies with, he licked our @rses during elections and address to the nation and now he shows his true colours.
Moral of the story is, tell the trusth always, not just when it suits you. I don't think he is capable of running a book club never mind a country. But then again, who else have we got, they are all the same.

token101

LeighH wrote: »

What a ludicrous statement. The vast majority of people are not economists or financial experts. The bank offers them money, they can easily make the repayments, so they take it. They have no idea what the large scale impact is going to be and they should not have to.

So anyone who borrows money can just say, 'Sure I'm not an economist, I didn't know what I was doing'? :rolleyes:

Surely for something as big as a mortgage, you factor in everything in your decision making? Including worst case scenarios like losing a job? A lot of people didn't and were banking on two salaries just to maintain the roof over their head becuase they took on a stupidly high mortgage and now they're goosed. Would you say they have any responsibility for their problems? Yeah there's a lot of people who were desperately unlucky loosing two jobs in a family, but there's an awful lot more who didn't have basic maths skills and made some f***ing woeful decisions. Coddling people and saying 'It's not your fault, you're a victim' is nonsense.

Anyone

AngryBollix wrote: »

Who did the bank lend to exactly?

The Banks personal lending was not the cause of their insolvency. They lent huge sums to developers on the backs of property/land that is worthless. They funded this lending through interbank borrowing. They didnt lend their own money...they borrowed themselves and lent it out. Once they couldnt borrow from other banks the shít hit the fan and they became insolvent.

This insolvency has cost close to €100 billion to the Irish state.

phil1nj

seanmc1980 wrote: »

again i have to point this out as people seem to bet getting caught up in their personal gripes with people who borrowed in the boom. Big deal people got carried away and your great for never borrowing but at present Ireland are in the Sh1ts because
1) The country is spending 20 bil a year more than they are taking in
2) The Country bailed out the banks.

Again its not the personal debt of the masses that caused us to go to the IMF.

The 20Billion deficit was/is caused by previous governments budgetry policies. With tons of cash coming in from transactional taxes (mainly property related) the deficit figure was well hidden until the party came to a stop and the ugly truth was exposed. The same government (ff at the time) also made the decision to bail out the banks (do you honestly think if people were asked whether this was a good idea or not it would have happend so easiliy?) The point has been made that there are two parts to every loan transaction, the borrower and the lender. Well judging by the fallout and the way things have panned out you can see which side of the fence the current ruling body (and teh previous one for that matter) have come down in favour off.

The goverment (present one) also felt the need to say what they said on an international platform which, when teh problem is looked at as a whole, is just misdirection to the fact that this country was/is ruled by people who cannot see beyond the next five years. Arseholes in otherwords.

foxyboxer

MPuppet Taoiseach.

FG Labour coalition. The gift that keeps on giving.

Where there is a reckless borrower, there is an equally reckless lender.
Oh, and I didn't personally sign the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Act 2008.

starbelgrade

token101 wrote: »

Well if you're one of the people who didn't get into debt, who rented, who saved and didn't take on 375K mortgages on 30,000 wages, it's equally as galling to listen to people blame everyone else, banks, regulators, government, before taking a look a mirror. Don't tell me it's ALL someone else's fault. F*** that. No one put a gun to their head. Own up and have some personal responsibility aswell. Mistakes were made by everybody, not just the government, banks, and regulators.

Personal debt is not the issue here as the economy wasn't ruined by people borrowing money from the banks. For Kenny to suggest that is absurd. And for people to believe him is incredulous.

You must also remember that while most of the people who took out big mortgages are now in negative equity, it is an often overlooked fact that most of them are also paying off those mortgages & that in comparison the number of distressed mortgages that were taken out - excluding the sub-prime ones - is highly exaggerated in the media.

It's smoke & mirrors and Enda Kenny either knows that, in which case he is a very devious little cunt, or he doesn't know it, in which case he is a total fool. Take your pick.

listermint

I have to say Broadsheet commentator summed it up entirely for me in one foul swoop.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/01/27/the-best-mad-borrowing-rant-youll-read-today/


F*** you Enda, and F*** the possey you rode in with.

Broadsheet commenter Peter Farrahy writes:

“Let me see if I have this.

You base your economic growth on the building and housing market.

You stoke it up with tax breaks to developers and builders.

You protect the cement industry by refusing to introduce EU regulation on minimum standards of house insulation.

You encourage a people who have a built-in desire to buy their homes to “get in” before prices go beyond their reach.

You deregulate the banks and appoint regulators that don’t regulate.

You allow 100% mortgages and in some cases 120% mortgages and turn a blind eye to the fact that NO property bubble EVER had a soft landing.

You pay yourself some of the highest salaries in the world including almost unlimited expenses. You bask in the glow of the Celtic Tiger and sneer at all and any who question you.

You do nothing to control inflation, resulting in Tesco making higher profits in Ireland the the UK!

We pay five times the European average cost for Pharmaceutical products.

Everything we paid for from insurance to schoolbooks cost whatever the seller decided to charge with no interference from any of the 850 quangos created for jobs for the pals and costing some €3 billion a year to run.

We sold off Eircom and set back broadband for a decade while the company was asset stripped and sold time and time again.

Instead of building a good rail network (Ireland is an ideal size for rail connections) they built roads and then gave them to private companies to charge us to us them.

If you should wish to go, by rail, from Cork to Wexford you must go via Dublin!.

And this is all because WE (the people) were greedy?

Ah, it is little wonder that I rant.”

Galtee

token101 wrote: »

So anyone who borrows money can just say, 'Sure I'm not an economist, I didn't know what I was doing'?

Yet it's ok for the banks to claim this and get reimbursed? We actually didn't know what we were doing, sorry, can we have our money back now please.

token101 wrote: »

Surely for something as big as a mortgage, you factor in everything in your decision making? Including worst case scenarios like losing a job? A lot of people didn't and were banking on two salaries just to maintain the roof over their head becuase they took on a stupidly high mortgage and now they're goosed. Would you say they have any responsibility for their problems? Yeah there's a lot of people who were desperately unlucky loosing two jobs in a family, but there's an awful lot more who didn't have basic maths skills and made some f***ing woeful decisions. Coddling people and saying 'It's not your fault, you're a victim' is nonsense.

I think the real problem is that the financial institutions lapsed their usual lending criteria and as a result everything spiralled out of control. The regulator should have put a stop to it sooner.

gcgirl

I know loads who remortgaged several times to have the top end car outside their over priced house and now their penny less

laugh

Is it greedy to want a home for your family? What about the banks giving loans to the developers with one hand and to Joe public to buy what was developed with the other, they created the bubble with that behavior.