Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
Did Enda Kenny blame the Irish people for the crisis?
Comments
-
LOL! Enda had plenty of balls when he said it wasn't Irish peoples fault.Thanks Enda Kenny for having the balls, once again, to tell things as they are. Anyone who thinks otherwise should probably stop deluding themselves that they want a different sort of politics, and go back to voting for Fianna Fail. They'll fill you with all the cosy littlle lies and false platitudes for which you so obviously yearn.
My personal view is that it is the fault of the Government/Regulator primarily, then the banks, then the people.0 -
-
Was saying the exact same thing myself to a mate last night. Yes I know of a few people who bought houses at crazy prices but there weren't doing it as speculators but so they could own their own home and bring up a family. I also knew a couple of people who got €20k loans to buy a '06 car but it is hardly smaller loans like those that are sinking this country.
Fact of the matter is that 181 very wealthy citizens of this country borrowed €61bn* between them and now can't pay that back. They are the people who went borrowing like mad, not your average Joe on the street.
Kenny should be ashamed of himself. First we had Noonan's comments on emigration being a lifestyle choice and Varadakar spouting about'bombs going off in Dublin' and now Kenny talking out of both sides of his mouth.
I'm now convinced that this government are going to be removed from power before their 5 year stint it up. Not even a year in they have turned into Continuity FF and the Irish people are bound to snap at some stage in the next two years.
*I tried to divide €61,000,000,000 by 181 people on my iPhone to get an average borrowing by this select group of property speculators. But it turns out the figure is so big even Apple don't know how to process it. A top of the head calculation is that the average developer in this group borrowed circa €300m each. They're are the ones who 'went mad borrowing', not us Enda.
Excellent ^^
Forgive me if it's been posted before:
Data from here, but it shows (at least I think it shows) that we are fooked !!
We owe 10 times more per person than any of the other countries, eeeek !
Maybe some people on here, more into Economics can explain to the uninitiated like myself, what that figure means, ie. we owe €390k per person compared to Greece €38k & Spain €41k. Eg. if I owe €250k in a mortgage, is that figured into the €390k figure above, or do I (theoretically) owe that aswell !!??
What I don't get is, I took out a mortgage, I'm paying it back, why am I also paying for the collapse of Ireland.inc, and why is Enda saying it's MY (& your) fault ?? Who's at fault for our Foreign dept @ 1.7trillion when GDP is @ 0.2trillion ??!!0 -
Kenny was right to say what he said in Davos. He was wrong to say in his address to the nation that the people were not to blame. Most of us did not partake in the mad rush to have the, biggest house, the biggest car, the most holidays per year etc. However there were many who borrowed as much as they could from irresponsible bankers. I would have experienced the insatable greed of people around me, who bought apartments abroad, boats, horses, SUV's, anything they dreamed of while money was trhrown at them. These people did not have the means to pay that money back and the banks must have known this. This is what Kenny was alluding to, but he should have given this message to the people of Ireland at budget time. Now unfortunately we must all pay for the madness of some of our citizens.0
-
HE WAS CORRECT!!
Sorry for the shouting!!
But he's right. In a general sense, the Irish people over-borrowed during the economic boom. Not every single person or family but many of us. Everyone accepts the idea that the banks engaged in reckless lending, but seemunable to grasp the corollary- reckless lending can only take place where there are reckless borrowers. And there were plenty of those. Of course, there were many irresponsible developers, and they share with the banks a huge part of the blame for the collapse. There were also though, many ordinary citizens who borrowed imprudently, and this is reflected in the personal borrowing figures for Ireland.
There's really no escaping it- many people in Ireland went mad on credit. That's a fact. And I for one welcome a politician who's honest and brave enough to stand up and tell some hard home truths, espcially when he knows it will hurt him electorally. Because, from what I can see, many people on this forum and elsewhere decry Fianna Fail and their style of politics, and yet demand that politicians continue pander to them with half truths and falsehoods. That's not change.
Thanks Enda Kenny for having the balls, once again, to tell things as they are. Anyone who thinks otherwise should probably stop deluding themselves that they want a different sort of politics, and go back to voting for Fianna Fail. They'll fill you with all the cosy littlle lies and false platitudes for which you so obviously yearn.
People over borrowing did not cause the current crisis in Ireland. The vast majority of people are still paying off their mortgage and personal debts in full.
Irish banks had to be guaranteed by the state after the shock to the world financial system after the Lehmann Brothers collapse.
The vast majority of non performing loans on the books of Irish banks are to developers both large and small. Irish banks could have survived with limited state intervention if they only had to take losses on bad mortgage, credit card, personal debt etc.
When Enda Kenny said people went mad borrowing he was speaking at an international event as leader of his country.
Foreign media have already interpreted his comments variously as "the people" and "my people".
You can imagine the headlines in the German red tops. "Greedy Irish Went Mad With Greed" - Prime Minister.
And this guys meant to be on our side.Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
0 -
HE WAS CORRECT!!
Sorry for the shouting!!
But he's right. In a general sense, the Irish people over-borrowed during the economic boom. Not every single person or family but many of us. Everyone accepts the idea that the banks engaged in reckless lending, but seemunable to grasp the corollary- reckless lending can only take place where there are reckless borrowers. And there were plenty of those. Of course, there were many irresponsible developers, and they share with the banks a huge part of the blame for the collapse. There were also though, many ordinary citizens who borrowed imprudently, and this is reflected in the personal borrowing figures for Ireland.
There's really no escaping it- many people in Ireland went mad on credit. That's a fact. And I for one welcome a politician who's honest and brave enough to stand up and tell some hard home truths, espcially when he knows it will hurt him electorally. Because, from what I can see, many people on this forum and elsewhere decry Fianna Fail and their style of politics, and yet demand that politicians continue pander to them with half truths and falsehoods. That's not change.
Thanks Enda Kenny for having the balls, once again, to tell things as they are. Anyone who thinks otherwise should probably stop deluding themselves that they want a different sort of politics, and go back to voting for Fianna Fail. They'll fill you with all the cosy littlle lies and false platitudes for which you so obviously yearn.
some people borrowing caused an 18 billion hole in finances and the bailout of the banks? did it fúck0 -
HE WAS CORRECT!!
No he wasn't. The vast majority of people were in no position to over-borrow, even during the boom years. Only the faux middle class with ideas above their stations borrowed to the levels where they could not possibly repay.
For him to say on a world stage, that the Irish people are to blame, without qualifying it by mentioning exactly which section of people it was, is disgraceful. He's supposed to represent us and our interests, not belittle us in the company of his peers.
As an aside, the vast majority of people did not support the armed campaign of the IRA.. would you be happy to have a politician suggest that in general "Irish people" did support it?
It's this notion of accepting the damage caused by others and agreeing to pay for it that has us in this situation today.0 -
I'm pretty sure that Enda is blaming the entire population (and conveniently side-lining the ones involved in the property fiasco), so that he can justify saddling all of us with the huge debts that have been piled up.
Us - "Why are we having to pay for the banks' debts?"
Enda - "They're not the banks' debts, they're yours, you thick cunts".0 -
Sure as long as the impression is given that the ‘people’ are to blame, the public will remain preoccupied with fighting amongst themselves about what exactly that means. Kenny & Co. can carry on selling us down the river with minimal interference.
The more these muppets speak the more it seems like their aim is to create a class war.. it’s the best way to protect themselves from being subjected to public anger.0 -
Advertisement
-
Enda's Take on some other issues:
Interviewer So what caused the crisis in the Catholic church in Ireland?
Enda Kenny Catholics went mad riding children, driven by lust.Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
0 -
HE WAS CORRECT!!
Sorry for the shouting!!
But he's right. In a general sense, the Irish people over-borrowed during the economic boom. Not every single person or family but many of us. Everyone accepts the idea that the banks engaged in reckless lending, but seemunable to grasp the corollary- reckless lending can only take place where there are reckless borrowers. And there were plenty of those. Of course, there were many irresponsible developers, and they share with the banks a huge part of the blame for the collapse. There were also though, many ordinary citizens who borrowed imprudently, and this is reflected in the personal borrowing figures for Ireland.
There's really no escaping it- many people in Ireland went mad on credit. That's a fact. And I for one welcome a politician who's honest and brave enough to stand up and tell some hard home truths, espcially when he knows it will hurt him electorally. Because, from what I can see, many people on this forum and elsewhere decry Fianna Fail and their style of politics, and yet demand that politicians continue pander to them with half truths and falsehoods. That's not change.
Thanks Enda Kenny for having the balls, once again, to tell things as they are. Anyone who thinks otherwise should probably stop deluding themselves that they want a different sort of politics, and go back to voting for Fianna Fail. They'll fill you with all the cosy littlle lies and false platitudes for which you so obviously yearn.
Where do you get off your high horse??
People borrowed for mortgages cos they could not afford to pay rent! Rent was 40-50% more expensive than the mortgage! You can hardly blame people who bought a family home!!!
Were you expecting people to live on the street?? Not everyone was born with a silver spoon.
THE issue is the fact that the government was happy to let their developer friends build anywhere they wanted. You could not get a plot of land anywhere close to the place of work. You could not rent either as it was over priced.
I would have happily bought land and build my own place for 70% cheaper than I had to pay the developer! BUT NO, the government was set on helping the brown envelopes (sorry i mean friends) to do their thing.
Than government decided, lets offer more money for everything and had their public expenditure go trough the roof. WHY?? Cos now they had to share the wealth with their UNION buddies. WHY? Cos they would have the protest if they did not!
We still don't know why HSE put money in SIPTU account, oh sorry account with no owner.
We had politicians who were more than happy to claim expenses with false documents!
We than had politicians decide that all the banks are too important. Why? Cos people that would be hurt by letting them collapse have way too much information about the said politicians that they could not afford the details to come out. Maybe this is the same reason we still did not see a single person jailed over what happened.
Why did I have to bail out Allied Irish Bank?? They were commercial bank and bank for all the failed developers. Do you see the connections.
Why was it allowed to have the golden circle of people "buy" shares in that bank to make it look profitable, but the buying was with the loan from the bank. So if everything still worked these people would be collecting interest without ever actually paying for any of it.
Someone knew the bank was in trouble and made up this scheme. Why is that person not behind bars for fraud??
Enda is doing noting more than trying to show himself in a good light and keeps blaming previous government for everything. Enda promised a lot, actually sorry he promised nothing apart from 5 point plan.
Still to this date I can not for the love of god figure out what that plan was. How did anyone fall for that I have no idea.
Anyone who thinks Enda and the bunch are doing well I can honestly tell you you deserve everything that is coming. I really pity the rest of the country.
We will be sold to IMF for next 30years and Enda will laugh all the way to the bank when he retires after this term as he won't be voted back in. Sure why would he care, he is still keeping all the perks and pensions and lump sum payments on retirement, never mind the teachers pension he will collect.
I just hope people can wake up before we sell our independence away.. And I have no doubt that will go to the highest bidder just like any other state owned company!0 -
Bollocks was it ,my ex could of rented a 3 bed in the same area for €700 instead he opted for but a 2 bed and is stuck with a mortgage for €1000 a month which is in arrearsPeanut2011 wrote: »HE WAS CORRECT!!
Sorry for the shouting!!
But he's right. In a general sense, the Irish people over-borrowed during the economic boom. Not every single person or family but many of us. Everyone accepts the idea that the banks engaged in reckless lending, but seemunable to grasp the corollary- reckless lending can only take place where there are reckless borrowers. And there were plenty of those. Of course, there were many irresponsible developers, and they share with the banks a huge part of the blame for the collapse. There were also though, many ordinary citizens who borrowed imprudently, and this is reflected in the personal borrowing figures for Ireland.
There's really no escaping it- many people in Ireland went mad on credit. That's a fact. And I for one welcome a politician who's honest and brave enough to stand up and tell some hard home truths, espcially when he knows it will hurt him electorally. Because, from what I can see, many people on this forum and elsewhere decry Fianna Fail and their style of politics, and yet demand that politicians continue pander to them with half truths and falsehoods. That's not change.
Thanks Enda Kenny for having the balls, once again, to tell things as they are. Anyone who thinks otherwise should probably stop deluding themselves that they want a different sort of politics, and go back to voting for Fianna Fail. They'll fill you with all the cosy littlle lies and false platitudes for which you so obviously yearn.
Where do you get off your high horse??
People borrowed for mortgages cos they could not afford to pay rent! Rent was 40-50% more expensive than the mortgage! You can hardly blame people who bought a family home!!!
Were you expecting people to live on the street?? Not everyone was born with a silver spoon.
THE issue is the fact that the government was happy to let their developer friends build anywhere they wanted. You could not get a plot of land anywhere close to the place of work. You could not rent either as it was over priced.
I would have happily bought land and build my own place for 70% cheaper than I had to pay the developer! BUT NO, the government was set on helping the brown envelopes (sorry i mean friends) to do their thing.
Than government decided, lets offer more money for everything and had their public expenditure go trough the roof. WHY?? Cos now they had to share the wealth with their UNION buddies. WHY? Cos they would have the protest if they did not!
We still don't know why HSE put money in SIPTU account, oh sorry account with no owner.
We had politicians who were more than happy to claim expenses with false documents!
We than had politicians decide that all the banks are too important. Why? Cos people that would be hurt by letting them collapse have way too much information about the said politicians that they could not afford the details to come out. Maybe this is the same reason we still did not see a single person jailed over what happened.
Why did I have to bail out Allied Irish Bank?? They were commercial bank and bank for all the failed developers. Do you see the connections.
Why was it allowed to have the golden circle of people "buy" shares in that bank to make it look profitable, but the buying was with the loan from the bank. So if everything still worked these people would be collecting interest without ever actually paying for any of it.
Someone knew the bank was in trouble and made up this scheme. Why is that person not behind bars for fraud??
Enda is doing noting more than trying to show himself in a good light and keeps blaming previous government for everything. Enda promised a lot, actually sorry he promised nothing apart from 5 point plan.
Still to this date I can not for the love of god figure out what that plan was. How did anyone fall for that I have no idea.
Anyone who thinks Enda and the bunch are doing well I can honestly tell you you deserve everything that is coming. I really pity the rest of the country.
We will be sold to IMF for next 30years and Enda will laugh all the way to the bank when he retires after this term as he won't be voted back in. Sure why would he care, he is still keeping all the perks and pensions and lump sum payments on retirement, never mind the teachers pension he will collect.
I just hope people can wake up before we sell our independence away.. And I have no doubt that will go to the highest bidder just like any other state owned company!0 -
SafeSurfer wrote: »People over borrowing did not cause the current crisis in Ireland. The vast majority of people are still paying off their mortgage and personal debts in full.
Irish banks had to be guaranteed by the state after the shock to the world financial system after the Lehmann Brothers collapse.
The vast majority of non performing loans on the books of Irish banks are to developers both large and small. Irish banks could have survived with limited state intervention if they only had to take losses on bad mortgage, credit card, personal debt etc.
When Enda Kenny said people went mad borrowing he was speaking at an international event as leader of his country.
Foreign media have already interpreted his comments variously as "the people" and "my people".
You can imagine the headlines in the German red tops. "Greedy Irish Went Mad With Greed" - Prime Minister.
And this guys meant to be on our side.
What a difference a year makes, Gilmore called the bank gaurantee economic treasan in dail pre election, only to go on to vote for an extention to it in Nov 2011. And remember this "A Vote for labour was a vote for resistance to public money being used to pay private debt". Then we have Leo varadkar pre election promise "banks aren't getting another cent" only to also vote for an extension of the guarantee in Nov 2012.
And as for Enda his pre election promise was all about debt write down, renegotiating the deal, only to state this week that Ireland will not look for write down of any debt.
I am getting tired of people giving out about Merkel and Zarkosy, they are merely looking after French and German interests. Our gob****s need to do the same.0 -
-
He spoke the truth, plain and simple.
I think in his state of teh nation addresss he shoudl have user air quotation marks when saying it wasnt our fault, guess he was nervous and forgot.0 -
Advertisement
-
-
LOL! Enda had plenty of balls when he said it wasn't Irish peoples fault.
My personal view is that it is the fault of the Government/Regulator primarily, then the banks, then the people.
Yeah I agree with that. I'm not saying Irish people are totally responsible for the over-borrowing, but they do have to share some responsibility. I really don't see how taking responsibility for your own decisions is such a controversial concept.***Cough, cough** Bull**** **cough, cough**
Ah, scathingly insightful rebuttal.Peanut2011 wrote: »Where do you get off your high horse??
I've never saddled up, so not sure how I could get down.People borrowed for mortgages cos they could not afford to pay rent! Rent was 40-50% more expensive than the mortgage! You can hardly blame people who bought a family home!!!
I'm not seeking to blame anyone. But I can state that people who borrowed should accept some degree of responsibility for that borrowing. Do you disagree with that? If not, then I don't see how we differ in our views on the matter.Were you expecting people to live on the street?? Not everyone was born with a silver spoon.
Rent. I have huge sympathy for people who find themselves in a mortgage debt trap, and I'm delighted that the new insolvency legislation will help people out of such dilemmas, but not owning a house =/= homlessness.THE issue is the fact that the government was happy to let their developer friends build anywhere they wanted. You could not get a plot of land anywhere close to the place of work. You could not rent either as it was over priced.
Ah come on now. Talk about having your cake and eating it. You're defence of people spening too much on mortgages is that people couldn't afford rents?? Talk about a contradiction.I would have happily bought land and build my own place for 70% cheaper than I had to pay the developer! BUT NO, the government was set on helping the brown envelopes (sorry i mean friends) to do their thing.
Much as I despise FF and especially the last two governments, the housing bubble can't be blamed on FF helping out their buddies. There were many more factors which had a bigger impact on it- supply and demand, low taxes, high wages, and government dependency on stampo duty. Also, it's very easy to say now that FF didn't introduce stricter provisions for borrowing etc because they wanted to help developers, but I guarantee had such provisions been introduced there would have been outrage on sites like this- the government won't let me buy a house etc etc. FF were always far more concerned about buying off the electorate than they were about buying off their developer friends.Than government decided, lets offer more money for everything and had their public expenditure go trough the roof. WHY?? Cos now they had to share the wealth with their UNION buddies. WHY? Cos they would have the protest if they did not!
So...you're outraged when I say Irish people should share some responsibility for the economic crisis, yet then claim that the unions are at fault. The very same unions which represent a large proportion of Irish people. Another contradiction.We still don't know why HSE put money in SIPTU account, oh sorry account with no owner.
We had politicians who were more than happy to claim expenses with false documents!
And? Not sure what that has to do with Irish people borrowing too much.We than had politicians decide that all the banks are too important. Why? Cos people that would be hurt by letting them collapse have way too much information about the said politicians that they could not afford the details to come out. Maybe this is the same reason we still did not see a single person jailed over what happened.
You have absolutely no evidence of this. It really is just conspiracy theory fantasy. Your claim doesn't even stand up to even the most basic scrutiny. You claim that the government bailed out the banks to keep the bankers sweet so that they wouldn't spill the beans. And yet, Sean Fitzpatrick and David Drumm have been repeatedly maligned by politicians, both have been made bankrupt, and both are the subject of criminal investigations. And yet they observe some omerta when it comes to their alleged knowledge of FF's dodgy dealings? Come on...Why did I have to bail out Allied Irish Bank?? They were commercial bank and bank for all the failed developers. Do you see the connections.
Why was it allowed to have the golden circle of people "buy" shares in that bank to make it look profitable, but the buying was with the loan from the bank. So if everything still worked these people would be collecting interest without ever actually paying for any of it.
Someone knew the bank was in trouble and made up this scheme. Why is that person not behind bars for fraud??
I don't necessarily disagree with any of this or your general anger. My post wasn't about any of this though.Enda is doing noting more than trying to show himself in a good light and keeps blaming previous government for everything. Enda promised a lot, actually sorry he promised nothing apart from 5 point plan.
You've just spent a whole post blaming the previous government (and rightly so), and yet criticise Kenny when he does the same? I'm sorry, but you'll have to be a tad more consistent. Either FF are to blame for mucking up this country, or they're not. If they are though, then there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that, whether it's you doing so ofr FG.Anyone who thinks Enda and the bunch are doing well I can honestly tell you you deserve everything that is coming. I really pity the rest of the country.
In July of last year, the interst rate the state would have had to pay for 4 year bonds was about 18%. Last week it was down to 5.2%. That's a phenomenal reduction,and the government have to be given some credit for that. Just this week, Alan Shatter published the heads of a personal insolvency bill which will radically reduce the burden on those who find themselves struggling in debt. It amounts to the most radical moves on personal debt since the foundation of the state. Anyone who ignores these moves, and focuses only on the negative when judging the government is obviously either extremely partisan, completely ill-informed, or so fuming with anger that they cannot make a rational, objective judgement. Whatever the case, such opinions should be taken under advisement.0 -
I am getting tired of people giving out about Merkel and Zarkosy, they are merely looking after French and German interests. Our gob****s need to do the same.
I agree with you about candidates in the last election shouting their mouths off about standing up to Frankfurt, but neither FG or Labour claimed in their manifestos that they would renege on the deal. they stated that they would seek to renegotiate parts of the deal, but even this could not be guaranteed. Sinn Fein, the ULA, and indepedents stated clearly that they would renege on the deal. The electorate had a clear choice. They could vote one way and see the IMF et al spurned; they could vote the other way and see the bailout deal continue. We both know which way they voted, so it's a bit rich now to state that the government somehow sold us a pup.
Also, how exactly do you propose that our gob****es look after our interests? Last time I checked, the Irish banks were entirely dependent on ECB funding. Last time I checked, the Irish state was entirely dependent on troika funding. Last time I checked, these bodies remained opposed to brning bondholders and the like, and made it clear that Ireland would suffer consequences should we go down that route. So...can you explain how you would go about things differently, and how this would benefit this country?0 -
SafeSurfer wrote: »People over borrowing did not cause the current crisis in Ireland. The vast majority of people are still paying off their mortgage and personal debts in full.
Irish banks had to be guaranteed by the state after the shock to the world financial system after the Lehmann Brothers collapse.
The vast majority of non performing loans on the books of Irish banks are to developers both large and small. Irish banks could have survived with limited state intervention if they only had to take losses on bad mortgage, credit card, personal debt etc.
When Enda Kenny said people went mad borrowing he was speaking at an international event as leader of his country.
Foreign media have already interpreted his comments variously as "the people" and "my people".
You can imagine the headlines in the German red tops. "Greedy Irish Went Mad With Greed" - Prime Minister.
And this guys meant to be on our side.
Some good points there actually. I don't think that the borrowing of the Irish people is primarily, or even majorly, the cause of the financial crisis, but I do think we (as in us generally, not individually) have to take some responsibility- for our excessive borrowing, and particularly for allowing ourselves to be repeatedly bought off in an obviously unsustainable manner by Bertie Ahern & Co. We can't just shrug our shoulders and blame everyone else without examining our role in what happened. We live in a democracy- the buck doesn't just stop with the man in charge; in a sense it stops with us too.
And before people start screaming that they never voted for FF etc, I'll point out again that I'm using "we" as a general term.0 -
Some good points there actually. I don't think that the borrowing of the Irish people is primarily, or even majorly, the cause of the financial crisis, but I do think we (as in us generally, not individually) have to take some responsibility- for our excessive borrowing, and particularly for allowing ourselves to be repeatedly bought off in an obviously unsustainable manner by Bertie Ahern & Co. We can't just shrug our shoulders and blame everyone else without examining our role in what happened. We live in a democracy- the buck doesn't just stop with the man in charge; in a sense it stops with us too.
And before people start screaming that they never voted for FF etc, I'll point out again that I'm using "we" as a general term.
That's like saying you should go to jail because your neighbour stole a car, what nonsense. It's funny how you always seem to be able to put your hands on an umbrella when it's not raining.0 -
Advertisement
-
-
HE WAS CORRECT!!
Sorry for the shouting!!
But he's right. In a general sense, the Irish people over-borrowed during the economic boom. Not every single person or family but many of us. Everyone accepts the idea that the banks engaged in reckless lending, but seemunable to grasp the corollary- reckless lending can only take place where there are reckless borrowers. And there were plenty of those. Of course, there were many irresponsible developers, and they share with the banks a huge part of the blame for the collapse. There were also though, many ordinary citizens who borrowed imprudently, and this is reflected in the personal borrowing figures for Ireland.
There's really no escaping it- many people in Ireland went mad on credit. That's a fact. And I for one welcome a politician who's honest and brave enough to stand up and tell some hard home truths, espcially when he knows it will hurt him electorally. Because, from what I can see, many people on this forum and elsewhere decry Fianna Fail and their style of politics, and yet demand that politicians continue pander to them with half truths and falsehoods. That's not change.
Thanks Enda Kenny for having the balls, once again, to tell things as they are. Anyone who thinks otherwise should probably stop deluding themselves that they want a different sort of politics, and go back to voting for Fianna Fail. They'll fill you with all the cosy littlle lies and false platitudes for which you so obviously yearn.
The only problem with this post is the forum that you posted it in0 -
A Freudian slip? Enda, probably in his clumsiness ,revealed an inner cute, smug, prudent and maybe unsympathetic self.Whatever the truth,public speaking is not his forte as with the slydog from Drumcondra, .Endaspeak,Bertiespeak etc.:D0
-
Well the way I see it BIG LENDERS AND BIG BORROWERS are the ones he should have SPECIFICALLY referred to i.e the banks big property developers.The government are equally to blame as they had the power to regulate this but greed breeds greed in this case.
Most people who just worked and made their living without ever making a big mint during the boom years are the people who are rightly going to be pissed at Kenny's comments. He blambed everyone really without referring to developers or lenders. The average person who never really gained from the boom is the one suffering most now and he is a bit of a boll*x for being to general in his statement. it's the big shots who screwed us up not the average man/woman0 -
Jeez - things must be bad when even After Hours gets all serious...0
-
Fact of the matter is that 181 very wealthy citizens of this country borrowed €61bn* between them and now can't pay that back.
Indeed. Much as Kenny and his advocates on here would try to convince us otherwise.Kenny should be ashamed of himself.
Not alone for the stupidity, but for the fact that he embarrassed the country as a whole on a world economic stage. The bondholders must be rubbing their hands together with glee.They're are the ones who 'went mad borrowing', not us Enda.
In one. Well said.0 -
HE WAS CORRECT!!
Sorry for the shouting!!
But he's right. In a general sense, the Irish people over-borrowed during the economic boom. Not every single person or family but many of us. Everyone accepts the idea that the banks engaged in reckless lending, but seemunable to grasp the corollary- reckless lending can only take place where there are reckless borrowers. And there were plenty of those. Of course, there were many irresponsible developers, and they share with the banks a huge part of the blame for the collapse. There were also though, many ordinary citizens who borrowed imprudently, and this is reflected in the personal borrowing figures for Ireland.
There's really no escaping it- many people in Ireland went mad on credit. That's a fact. And I for one welcome a politician who's honest and brave enough to stand up and tell some hard home truths, espcially when he knows it will hurt him electorally. Because, from what I can see, many people on this forum and elsewhere decry Fianna Fail and their style of politics, and yet demand that politicians continue pander to them with half truths and falsehoods. That's not change.
Thanks Enda Kenny for having the balls, once again, to tell things as they are. Anyone who thinks otherwise should probably stop deluding themselves that they want a different sort of politics, and go back to voting for Fianna Fail. They'll fill you with all the cosy littlle lies and false platitudes for which you so obviously yearn.
NO HE WASN'T.
His incompetence was on display for the entire world to see, while dragging down our reputation at the same time. End of story. Define 'many people in Ireland'.
Did the whole adult population go mad? No.
Did those buying their first home go mad? No.
Were the Banks complete idiots? Yes.
A general sense? A generalisation perhaps?
So before anyone beatifies Enda just think for a minute about the damage he has caused. Just for a minute. While using us as scapegoats. FFS.0 -
0 -
Stupid motherf ucker0
-
-
Advertisement
-
In July of last year, the interst rate the state would have had to pay for 4 year bonds was about 18%. Last week it was down to 5.2%. That's a phenomenal reduction,and the government have to be given some credit for that.
The government deserve no credit for this. The ECB has flooded the European banking system with "unlimited" cheap credit at 1%. European banks can make huge profits by buying Irish government bonds at 5.2% with money that's costing them 1%.
This is no thanks to Enda, Gilmore and co. They took credit for the interest rate cut on the bail out too, which was won on the backs of Greek protesters.Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
0 -
I think the Taoiseach was just telling it like it is. The trouble is that no one wants to hear the truth. The Banks were very irresponsible in lending so much money and the developers and borrowers let money go to their head.0
-
that stupid pr1ck wont come back from this , it will haunt him.0
-
SafeSurfer wrote: »The government deserve no credit for this. The ECB has flooded the European banking system with "unlimited" cheap credit at 1%. European banks can make huge profits by buying Irish government bonds at 5.2% with money that's costing them 1%.
This is no thanks to Enda, Gilmore and co. They took credit for the interest rate cut on the bail out too, which was won on the backs of Greek protesters.
And yet, despite the availability of that same ECB money, the interest rates for Greek and Portugal have remained unsustainable, while no other European country has shown a similar reduction.0 -
-
.
Ah, scathingly insightful rebuttal.
I thought it was suitable for a blowhard that came in here shouting (huge font ffs!?!). The fact of that matter is that you speak in gross generalizations thinking that adds some sort of gravitas to your points and then wonder why people take you to task over your comments. Referring to Irish politicians as being honest and brave and commending them on telling home truths (how about the one that says that they are grossly overpaid for what they do, that their policies are often parochial and narrow minded and that given the right set of circumstances they will row back on any promise they made pre-election to save their worthless necks at the polling station ?)
I don't want half truths and platitudes, I just want some straight talking about how certain members of Irish society managed to screw us royally for the next decade at least. How some, not all, Irish people were overly greedy and managed to **** things up so badly that we all are suffering punitive taxes and penalties on our pay and standard of living. Unfortunately no one in the current Dail (or any future one for that matter) will ever manage to do this. Honest and brave indeed.0 -
I thought it was suitable for a blowhard that came in here shouting (huge font ffs!?!).
So what's changed? Your opinion of me as a blowhard? Or your feeling that the response was suitable?
By the way, is everyone who dares disagree with your view on things a blowhard, or just a select few? Because if you resort to ad hominems all the time, well then I'll feel less special.
I agree, the huge fonts were unnecessary, but I tend to get a tad frustrated with the bucking of any responsibility that's so prevalent on these threads. In a democracy, the buck doesn't just stop with the elected leader; it stops with the people who elected him or her too. Irish people can't seem to grasp that.The fact of that matter is that you speak in gross generalizations thinking that adds some sort of gravitas to your points and then wonder why people take you to task over your comments.
1. I wasn't speaking in gross generalisations. You may not agree with my points, but you can't accuse me of that. When I used the terms "we" and "general", I wasn't referring to every single Irish person but to a plurality of Irish people, and I said as much.
2. Even if I was speaking in gross generalisations, I fail to see how anyone could consider that an attempt to add gravitas. Perhaps you happen to equate generalisations with high intellect but I don't, and I doubt I'm alone in that.
3. You didn't take me to task over my comments. Your response was pretty inane to say the least, and didn't even address my points. I threated your response in the manner that it deserved. The fact that you are now replying properly implies that you realise that too.
You'll also find that I responded in a civil manner to the people who did take me to task. I might not agree with them, but I respect their opions and argued the points, not the man. You should try it sometime.Referring to Irish politicians as being honest and brave and commending them on telling home truths (how about the one that says that they are grossly overpaid for what they do, that their policies are often parochial and narrow minded and that given the right set of circumstances they will row back on any promise they made pre-election to save their worthless necks at the polling station ?)
I didn't say Irish politicians are brave and honest. I said Enda Kenny was. If you read my post you would have seen that. And I meant Enda Kenny was brave and honest in this instance. I'd fed up with the cute hoorism of FF politics, where the most important thing of all was to spin everything and, as far as possible, tell people what they want to hear. Even if I didn't agree with Kenny, I'd still admire his balls for getting up and saying what he thinks. It's a nice change.I don't want half truths and platitudes, I just want some straight talking about how certain members of Irish society managed to screw us royally for the next decade at least.
I think that's pretty established by now.How some, not all, Irish people were overly greedy and managed to **** things up so badly that we all are suffering punitive taxes and penalties on our pay and standard of living.
The punitive taxes relate more to our massive deficits than anything else. Those deficits have very little to do with the bank guarantees, and practically to do with the run away spending of the previous FF administrations. Who voted in FF over three consecutive elections? The people of Ireland. How did FF win that support? By bribing the people with give away budgets. In my world, that means that the Irish people (in general, not specific individuals) must bear some responsibility (not all, not even the major portion) for the current situation. In your world, it's someone else's fault. Always someone else's fault. What i want to know, is how the hell are we going to learn from the past decade, ensure that it never happens again, if we keep up this charade of pretending that we (again, not every single person) is entirely blameless?0 -
And yet, despite the availability of that same ECB money, the interest rates for Greek and Portugal have remained unsustainable, while no other European country has shown a similar reduction.
Portuguese debt has been downgraded to junk status. The borrowing costs for both Italy and Spain have also been reduced to a similar level.Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
0 -
The punitive taxes relate more to our massive deficits than anything else. Those deficits have very little to do with the bank guarantees, and practically to do with the run away spending of the previous FF administrations. Who voted in FF over three consecutive elections? The people of Ireland. How did FF win that support? By bribing the people with give away budgets. In my world, that means that the Irish people (in general, not specific individuals) must bear some responsibility (not all, not even the major portion) for the current situation. In your world, it's someone else's fault. Always someone else's fault. What i want to know, is how the hell are we going to learn from the past decade, ensure that it never happens again, if we keep up this charade of pretending that we (again, not every single person) is entirely blameless?
Fine Gael and Labour in opposition consistently called for MORE expenditure during the boom.
They matched Fianna Fail bribe for bribe in the auction politics stakes.
It may be convenient to forget but look at the Fine Gael election manifesto of 2002 and 2007.
http://www.irishelection.com/2007/05/fine-gael-manifesto/Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis
0 -
Advertisement
-
Einhard wrote:I didn't say Irish politicians are brave and honest. I said Enda Kenny was.
Honest and brave ? Where are those "burn the bondholders/no more taxes" election promises again ? And since we voted for him based on those, who's wrong ? Him for lying or us for believing someone you view as "brave and honest" ?
If I stated that "politicians are corrupt" then Kenny and yourself would object to the hilt, and rightly so, because some aren't.
Why the double-standards when Kenny lies via a sweeping generalisation ?0 -
There needs to be a legal guarantee brought in that a promise made by a politician when he is campaigning has to be upheld if he is elected. If it is not, they should be unable to run for office again.
It's not pie in the sky and it would work. It is difficult to know who to vote for as they are all lying, all the time.
I voted for labour as they promised no water charge and said they were strong on net neutrality.............. and now look what we have.0 -
Must have to say I'm pretty p1ssed off at his remark that we went mad borrowing.
I'm in my late 20s and I and many more people I know did not run amok with cheap banking credit.
We need to see accountibility for what went on here in this country, espicially when Bertie himself - the ex taoiseach is obvilious or not admitting his part in the making of Irelands mess. Nobody has been held accountible from the top.
Banks fed into and fuelled a boom. The government at the time rode on the back of this increasing public expenditure. The bust came. The banks went down. Public expenditure was not tackled head on and the deficit spiralled out of control to which we see a gap of 18B+ in finances.
We now have Enda Kenny - our taoiseach - swanning of to Europe coming out with such a remark that the Irish went mad borrowing when for the most part people borrowed for a home scared into believing that house prices were only going to go up with a select few completely losing the run of themselves. God only knows what they think of us out in Europe now - that we all went mad borrowing and we all didn't.
The Irish were sold to the banks and NAMA was set up to save the select few who completely lost the run of themselves. We have a huge deficit which we are tackling and will be for some time. At times of a recession I would imagine deficits would run. We need a little compassion and empathy from Europe. Reading these forums our own people are against us coming out with remarks that we all bought coke and hookers, foreign holidays, cars, holiday homes and decking. And, Kenny is in Europe not even on our side, just when we need it most. The UK had a property boom and you don't see David Cameron swanning off to Europe sticking a stick into the back of his people.
He then did a uturn today on the News reinforcing that it is not our fault. Whos fault is it, so, Kenny? The banks, developers, FF. We've gathered that much. So can you tell me why nobody has been held accountible especially when it's not our fault but by jesus we're picking up the pieces and the tab.0 -
So what's changed? Your opinion of me as a blowhard? Or your feeling that the response was suitable?
Pick one. Either answer will be correct.By the way, is everyone who dares disagree with your view on things a blowhard, or just a select few? Because if you resort to ad hominems all the time, well then I'll feel less special.
Not at all. I only disagree with people who come on claiming to speak for me (as you did you your initial comment). Enda Kenny does not speak for me, nor does he speak for the majority of people who did not lose the run of themselves during the boom years. What he said was factually incorrect and downright insulting to anyone who did not overstretch themselves during the boom years. If you disagree with that and have a different opinion, fine, but be prepared to deal with people who choose to call you out on it.I agree, the huge fonts were unnecessary, but I tend to get a tad frustrated with the bucking of any responsibility that's so prevalent on these threads. In a democracy, the buck doesn't just stop with the elected leader; it stops with the people who elected him or her too. Irish people can't seem to grasp that.
I'm glad we agree on something. As for the bucking of responsibility, I never bucked my responsibility for anything but in this case I'm afraid that the majority of the damage done to the Irish economy and country was wrought by a particular minority (reckless builders, developers, bankers, regulators etc). The ordinary worker who spent and lived in a sensible manner need to be excused from some of the more preposterous claims being made by certain posters on this thread despite what you say to the contrary.1. I wasn't speaking in gross generalisations. You may not agree with my points, but you can't accuse me of that. When I used the terms "we" and "general", I wasn't referring to every single Irish person but to a plurality of Irish people, and I said as much.
Oh but you were. "We" and "many" are very general terms, especially when applied against the entire population of a small island nation.2. Even if I was speaking in gross generalisations, I fail to see how anyone could consider that an attempt to add gravitas. Perhaps you happen to equate generalisations with high intellect but I don't, and I doubt I'm alone in that.
Maybe it was the thunderous way you announced yourself on this thread with your bold statement that lead me to make this claim. In summation: Enda Kenny was right to say what he said! Bound to make the odd person's dander rise after reading such a claim.3. You didn't take me to task over my comments. Your response was pretty inane to say the least, and didn't even address my points. I threated your response in the manner that it deserved. The fact that you are now replying properly implies that you realise that too.
My comment may have been inane in your eyes, but it still doesn't change my opinion that what you said was bull****. I base this claim on the myriad of posts already made to this thread that show that less than 200 individuals are responsible for over 60billion worth of debt in this state. Where is the "we" that you speak about present in that figure exactly?You'll also find that I responded in a civil manner to the people who did take me to task. I might not agree with them, but I respect their opions and argued the points, not the man. You should try it sometime.
Petty, very petty, especially for AH. I've argued in a civil manner here too also. But your claim (as bold as it was) the EK s 100% right to say what he said is sill fair game for criticism.I didn't say Irish politicians are brave and honest. I said Enda Kenny was. If you read my post you would have seen that. And I meant Enda Kenny was brave and honest in this instance. I'd fed up with the cute hoorism of FF politics, where the most important thing of all was to spin everything and, as far as possible, tell people what they want to hear. Even if I didn't agree with Kenny, I'd still admire his balls for getting up and saying what he thinks. It's a nice change.
Brave in this instance? But he completely contradicted what he said in December? If anything it makes him out to be a two faced little toad, unworthy of any elevation in peoples eyes (my own opinion). You'll find that most people are fed up with cute hoorism in this country but what he did is simply more of the same and will not go away anytime soon. The man has no balls as far as I' concerned and if anything these events have shown that without a preprepared script the man is a liability on the world stage.I think that's pretty established by now.
Again, we agree.The punitive taxes relate more to our massive deficits than anything else. Those deficits have very little to do with the bank guarantees, and practically to do with the run away spending of the previous FF administrations. Who voted in FF over three consecutive elections? The people of Ireland. How did FF win that support? By bribing the people with give away budgets. In my world, that means that the Irish people (in general, not specific individuals) must bear some responsibility (not all, not even the major portion) for the current situation. In your world, it's someone else's fault. Always someone else's fault. What i want to know, is how the hell are we going to learn from the past decade, ensure that it never happens again, if we keep up this charade of pretending that we (again, not every single person) is entirely blameless?
All this money must be paid back out of one giant pot which will be generated from the tax take of Ireland. There is no magic pot of gold that will repay these debts so the argument about the deficit is a disingenuous one. All of this money will need to be repaid by us (and Enda has said that we will repay all of this money, despite his election promises to the contrary - burn the bond holders, burden sharing - big words from a small man which have come to naught). The Irish people who voted for the FG/Labour coalition, I think, honestly believed that change would come once they gort in power. How wrong we are. These people are just the same as the last crowd and as time goes by the general populace are beginning to see that our options for change, real change are severally limited when it comes to politics. But it still doesn't change the fact that this crisis is not of the majorities making but we still have to pay the piper, regardless.0 -
SafeSurfer wrote: »Portuguese debt has been downgraded to junk status. The borrowing costs for both Italy and Spain have also been reduced to a similar level.
And Ireland's haven't. So Ireland's interest rates drop from 18% to 5%, whilst Spain and Italy and Portugal and Greece have their debt downgraded to junk status, but the Irish government can take absolutely no credit whatsoever for this?SafeSurfer wrote: »Fine Gael and Labour in opposition consistently called for MORE expenditure during the boom.
They matched Fianna Fail bribe for bribe in the auction politics stakes.
It may be convenient to forget but look at the Fine Gael election manifesto of 2002 and 2007.
http://www.irishelection.com/2007/05/fine-gael-manifesto/[/QUOTE]
I'm not stating that FG or Labour are perfect. They're far from it. But FF has consistently shown a willingness to put the interests of the party over the interests of the nation. They did so in the late 70s, and they did so in the last decade. FG on the other hand, and I have to stress that I'm not a party political supporter, have shown at least some concern for the good of the nation, even when it damaged their own prospects. Thus, Alan Dukes supported the government as part of the Tallaght strategy. There was nothing to gain electorally from it, but the party did the patriotic thing. Do you think FF would evern even contemplate such a selfless move? In the earlier part of the last decade, when FF were buying off the public sector unions with benchmarking, FG and Enda Kenny came out against the practice. Again, this was a dumb move in terms of electoral politics, and one that Bertie et al were keen to exploit, but it was an honorable act on their part. They put what they perceived to be the national good ahead of narrow party interests. Would Berie have done the same? Sorry- did Bertie do the same? Not a chance of it.Liam Byrne wrote: »Honest and brave ? Where are those "burn the bondholders/no more taxes" election promises again ? And since we voted for him based on those, who's wrong ? Him for lying or us for believing someone you view as "brave and honest" ?
Liam, you know as well as I do that neither FG or Labour had any mention of burning bondholders in their manifesto. FG especially were clear that, while they would seek to renegotiate the bonds, there would be NO unilateral reneging of them. Yes, Leo Varadker **** his mouth off, and some other candidates might have done the same, but it was clear to any rational party that there would be no burning of the bondholders. If you voted for FG on that basis, well then I'm sorry but you were deluding yourself.
As for taxes...FG explicitly stated that they would introduce a household tax and water charges. Now they're doing so, and a rump within a minority are dancing about as if it's somehow undemocratic!If I stated that "politicians are corrupt" then Kenny and yourself would object to the hilt, and rightly so, because some aren't.
Because most aren't I would have thought.Why the double-standards when Kenny lies via a sweeping generalisation ?
Yeah, I agree, he should have qualified his remarks more. I do though, think that the Irish people in general (not every single person etc) bear some responsibility for this crisis. Particularly those who contined to vote FF despite all the evidence that they were economically incompetent, and morally compromised.0 -
All this money must be paid back out of one giant pot which will be generated from the tax take of Ireland. There is no magic pot of gold that will repay these debts so the argument about the deficit is a disingenuous one. All of this money will need to be repaid by us (and Enda has said that we will repay all of this money, despite his election promises to the contrary - burn the bond holders, burden sharing - big words from a small man which have come to naught). The Irish people who voted for the FG/Labour coalition, I think, honestly believed that change would come once they gort in power. How wrong we are. These people are just the same as the last crowd and as time goes by the general populace are beginning to see that our options for change, real change are severally limited when it comes to politics. But it still doesn't change the fact that this crisis is not of the majorities making but we still have to pay the piper, regardless.
Ok, I was supposed to hit the sack about 3 hours ago, so just gonna respond to this part of your post:
Firstly, neither Enda Kenny nor FG stated that they would burn the bondholders. That's simply incorrect. I've checked their manifesto. They did claim that they would seek to renegotiate the deal, but wouldn't seek to unilaterally amend it. Part of the reason I voted FG was because they stated they wouldn't burn bondholders in a unilateral manner.
Secondly, how on earth can you dismiss a €20 billion current deficit as disingenuous? We spend approx that much every year over and above what we take in. And only a very small amount has anything to do with the bailout of the banks. So it really is entirely untrue to state that punitive taxes are being raised to pay back bondholders.
Finally, I voted FG and I think the government are doing a good job in tremendously difficult circumstances. Considering that the most recent opinion poll had FG at 33%, a mere 3% down on their general election tally, I think it's fair to say that the people who voted for this government are reasonably happy with their performance thus far.0 -
Advertisement
-
Did the whole adult population go mad? No.
Did those buying their first home go mad? YES (NakedNNettles edit)
Were the Banks complete idiots? Yes.
.
Hey man, thought I would correct your original post.
Why? Because anyone paying inflated prices for property just so they could have a home were one word....MAD!
Added to that they flamed the fire that was the property bubble, increasing the madness so to speak.
If all these people wanted homes so badly, where are they now when property is more reasonably priced.0 -
Ok, I was supposed to hit the sack about 3 hours ago, so just gonna respond to this part of your post:
Firstly, neither Enda Kenny nor FG stated that they would burn the bondholders. That's simply incorrect. I've checked their manifesto. They did claim that they would seek to renegotiate the deal, but wouldn't seek to unilaterally amend it. Part of the reason I voted FG was because they stated they wouldn't burn bondholders in a unilateral manner.
Secondly, how on earth can you dismiss a €20 billion current deficit as disingenuous? We spend approx that much every year over and above what we take in. And only a very small amount has anything to do with the bailout of the banks. So it really is entirely untrue to state that punitive taxes are being raised to pay back bondholders.
The 20 Billion deficit is down to poor fiscal policy on the part of the government (previous ones more so than the current one). We are borrowing more than we take in each year in taxes so the only way to address this is to raise taxes and broaden the tax base, no problem there. A pretty standard approach by any government. Then we come to the bank guarantee, one that had to be introduced due to the fallout from the "mad borrowing" that Enda talked so publicly about. The government of the day basically decided to pick up the tab for the banks losses and recapitilize them to the tune of 85 Billion. Now, please square the circle for me, in a country that is, to all intents and purposes broke, where is the money coming from to pay off these debts and more importantly, when and how is this money going to be paid back? I'll give you a clue, anyone that has an income in this country will be paying this back for decades to come in some shape or form. So once the budget deficit is sorted (4 or 5 more hair shirt budgets should do that) we can start tackling this problem.Finally, I voted FG and I think the government are doing a good job in tremendously difficult circumstances. Considering that the most recent opinion poll had FG at 33%, a mere 3% down on their general election tally, I think it's fair to say that the people who voted for this government are reasonably happy with their performance thus far.
This government is basically continuing the policies that FF started. My own opinion is that once the IMF turned up, FF's goose was cooked. A gibbering monkey with a FG badge could have been elected in the last election as long as it meant that FF were ousted. Role the clocks on almost 12 months, and what exactly has changed? answer. nothing. This government is doing exactly what FF would be doing had they won the last election. As for why its FG in power, I put this down to them being the lesser of two evils. FF showed how corrupting power can be to a political party, FG are slowly going down the same route (Noonan's emigration statement, Kenny's faux pas on the world stage - all products of hubris)0 -
And so the back pedaling begins:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-remarks-on-mad-borrowing-taken-out-of-context-3002549.html
I love Bruton's comments about how {Kenny} was referring to how "a circle of no more than a couple of thousand people led the bubble". LOL0 -
Einhard wrote:Because most aren't I would have thought.
How many is most ? Is "you would have thought" sufficient to issue a racist slur to us all ?
How many Irish people actually went mad ? How many of them were greedy ?
At what stage can we slander a whole group ?
It's not acceptable; either the accusation or the generalisation. Nor is the u-turn from his nonsensical TV waffle.
Kenny should resign if he has this opinion of the Irish people.
He would be right about some, but a sweeping generalisation like that means that his screwed-up mindset is "I'll punish them for being greedy".0 -
I suspect that those most offended by Kenny's remarks are those who did borrow unwisely for whatever reason. The truth hurts. I'm mad now hearing of the row back. He should have stuck to his guns. It's the truth and those who did not borrow, myself included, should hope that his statement will resonate with the huge numbers who did go mad. As I said, the truth hurts but if mistakes are recognised, not denied or avoided, maybe then wd can move forward as a more mature society. The Irish persecution complex is old. The only way we can avoid repeating mistakes is to acknowledge them.0
-
Advertisement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C14U7JYGRgA
Advertisement