Did Enda Kenny blame the Irish people for the crisis?

Janedoe10

I have to agree with Freddie59 statements . Remember he like u are entitled to voice them . It's why this forum is so successful . Please don't excuse the comments made by a government representative on a world wide forum as been correct .
Yes he had a point all he had to say was some . Was his "advisor" off that day that he could not have briefed him . ? Surely enda has been asked this question before? Was it the bright lights on the day ? Or the occasion that got to him? All it shows is that that thin veneer is getting exposed more and more . To Irish citizens who didn't go "mad" as enda liked to call it . It's an insult and to any of those outside Ireland it looks like the world wide crisis and yes enda it is not unique to Ireland they will think that the billions borrowed etc etc was caused by the old ladies and owl fellas in Ireland not to mention the young wans. Forget about certain developers and heads of banks who thought that they were playing with monopoly money in a computer game "second life ". ( or what ever it's called) . What is enda going to say next I wonder oh ya he"ll wheel out one of his team, the minions to tell us we are getting tetchy for no reason . " shure no one listens to that" I better stop now or I"will " burst a vessell . Or I might be declared "mad" by the establishment .

The Waltzing Consumer

Freddie59 wrote: »

Solution? The money is not owed by the Irish people. How many times does this have to be explained???? We can default. And then go around in circles borrowing 'to keep the country going' as they put it....from the very same people.

"**** the Irish people". Wow! Great outlook.:rolleyes: Are you really that much of an Enda fanboy that you put him before the country? Seriously?

It is completely delusional. Ireland does not owe this money. Individual banks do. They bet on a horse called the property market - and it lost. Get over it.

Except the interest rate will be much much higher then we currently pay, thanks, a lot more debt, any more great ideas?

Enda, please show me in those points anything to do with Enda, I would be saying the same for any leader of the Government at the moment if they have been taking the same actions. You just have Enda on the brain I think, the lady doth protest too much.

As for your third point, it is not working that way, any better ideas?

Freddie59

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Bizarre statements,

Oh boy, and there are so much more on this thread!

Bizarre would be:

* Defending a lame duck Taoiseach.

* Expecting the Irish people to cover a bet laid by Franco-German banks

* Attempting to berate people pointing out the obvious.

* Keeping one's head in the economic quicksand while shouting "F**k the Irish people".

Freddie59

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Except the interest rate will be much much higher then we currently pay, thanks, a lot more debt, any more great ideas?

Enda, please show me in those points anything to do with Enda, I would be saying the same for any leader of the Government at the moment if they have been taking the same actions. You just have Enda on the brain I think, the lady doth protest too much.

As for your third point, it is not working that way, any better ideas?

It is not working that way because........?

Bababa

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Bababa wrote: »

Look it up. We have been raped and now they are smearing our own excrement all over us while they laugh!!!...all the way to the BANK.

Lovely image.

Well be a friend and give us a link. You got the number from somewhere.

Here's one link.
http://www.sceala.com/phpBB2/irish-forums-25255.html

The Waltzing Consumer

Janedoe10 wrote: »

I have to agree with Freddie59 statements . Remember he like u are entitled to voice them . It's why this forum is so successful . Please don't excuse the comments made by a government representative on a world wide forum as been correct .
Yes he had a point all he had to say was some . Was his "advisor" off that day that he could not have briefed him . ? Surely enda has been asked this question before? Was it the bright lights on the day ? Or the occasion that got to him? All it shows is that that thin veneer is getting exposed more and more . To Irish citizens who didn't go "mad" as enda liked to call it . It's an insult and to any of those outside Ireland it looks like the world wide crisis and yes enda it is not unique to Ireland they will think that the billions borrowed etc etc was caused by the old ladies and owl fellas in Ireland not to mention the young wans. Forget about certain developers and heads of banks who thought that they were playing with monopoly money in a computer game "second life ". ( or what ever it's called) . What is enda going to say next I wonder oh ya he"ll wheel out one of his team, the minions to tell us we are getting tetchy for no reason . " shure no one listens to that" I better stop now or I"will " burst a vessell . Or I might be declared "mad" by the establishment .

Yes

Bababa

Another link


http://archive.galwayindependent.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14407&Itemid=86

The Waltzing Consumer

Bababa wrote: »

Here's one link.
http://www.sceala.com/phpBB2/irish-forums-25255.html

Ah Jesus :rolleyes: You said 400 BILLION, your reference, some posting board from another unsourced poster who makes up whatever and says 200 billion.
So you doubled the figure yourself? This is laughable stuff lads, do not see why some of us don''t agree with you?

I find some random figure on the internet with no source or evidence whatsoever, then I double this figure myself and then use it as my evidence for an anti-EU rant.

Laughing my fricking ass off here

The Waltzing Consumer

Bababa wrote: »

Another link


http://archive.galwayindependent.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14407&Itemid=86

I think you are worth 500 trillion dollars (source Eurostat European Commission)

Yep, great evidence there. Am I stating a verified stat there or making things up?

If you have a figure from Eurostat, post the link! Otherwise, people make stuff up all the time.

Bababa

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Bababa wrote: »

Another link


http://archive.galwayindependent.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14407&Itemid=86

I think you are worth 500 trillion dollars (source Eurostat European Commission)

Yep, great evidence there. Am I stating a verified stat there or making things up?

If you have a figure from Eurostat, post the link! Otherwise, people make stuff up all the time.

If u had bothered ur arse to read on you would have seen it would have been worth €400bn if processed here. Let me guess u are actually Enda kenny or Ian o'doherty

The Waltzing Consumer

Bababa wrote: »

If u had bothered ur arse to read on you would have seen it would have been worth €400bn if processed here. Let me guess u are actually Enda kenny or Ian o'doherty

If you had been bothered to read my post you would find the same amount of evidence as your claim. ZERO

Any person can say "we gave x Euro to this (source: Government Agency)"

That is not credible. Such a figure came from some where and this can be easily tracked. The S2S people are mad for making up figures too except their figures are bizarre and wrong.

This is simple. I post a fact, I post the source. If I want to post the uneployment stats, I post the link to the latest CSO unemployment figures. It shows the figures in black and white. The only reason I don't post an actual link is because it is bullsh**

Bababa

trAngela merkel?

Bababa

The whole reason this country is in the sh1t is because of these "accurate" figures u talk about.

The Waltzing Consumer

Freddie59 wrote: »

Oh boy, and there are so much more on this thread!

Bizarre would be:

* Defending a lame duck Taoiseach.

* Expecting the Irish people to cover a bet laid by Franco-German banks

* Attempting to berate people pointing out the obvious.

* Keeping one's head in the economic quicksand while shouting "F**k the Irish people".

Do you know what a lame duck Taoiseach is? Source your claim and I will believe you? Is it polls? The fact an election was held last year? Come on, treat me like an adult, where is your source?

Give an alternative that is not a million times worse. You say default, that means the people we default on won't lend us money to run the country, the people who do lend us money will lend a huge rate of interest then compared to now. Great idea!!

The obvious? Your default solution is not a better alternative. Stop paying 10 and pay 20 instead. How is that fricking better?

Seriously, it is simply such BS to waving the Irish flag and moaning about people like me with our "head(s) in the economic quicksand" when your only solution is to get us in more debt and that any first year economic student would tell you that. It is bravado, bull and completely wrong.

The Waltzing Consumer

Bababa wrote: »

The whole reason this country is in the sh1t is because of these "accurate" figures u talk about.I can't find squat so I will distract by giving out about the accuracy of figures the banks provided to the state, which bizarrely means that I am comparing the accuracy of my own stats to the known bullsh** stats the banks gave

Nice work.

Freddie59

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Do you know what a lame duck Taoiseach is? Source your claim and I will believe you? Is it polls? The fact an election was held last year? Come on, treat me like an adult, where is your source?

Source? Davos, January 2012. The World Economic Forum. Where a "Taoiseach" described Irish people as "mad" and "greedy".

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Give an alternative that is not a million times worse. You say default, that means the people we default on won't lend us money to run the country, the people who do lend us money will lend a huge rate of interest then compared to now. Great idea!!

Reduce the need to borrow. Oh - I forgot - we can't. Have to keep the Government/CS/PS gravy train on the rails. Cheerled by the most gullible among us.

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

The obvious? Your default solution is not a better alternative. Stop paying 10 and pay 20 instead. How is that fricking better?

I refer you to the previous answer. Bring about the conditions so we have to borrow as little as possible. Oh sh!t. We can't. That lame duck Taoiseach is scared sh!tless of upsetting his coalition partners.

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Seriously, it is simply such BS to waving the Irish flag and moaning about people like me with our "head(s) in the economic quicksand" when your only solution is to get us in more debt and that any first year economic student would tell you that. It is bravado, bull and completely wrong.

The situation, as already explained, is that the Irish people owe none of this debt. You're consistently dancing around this, while proclaiming "f**k the Irish people" while beating your chest (a hard thing to do when you bury your head in the sand though).:)

Unsecured bondholders, two dodgy Franco-German banks who obviously didn't know their arses from their elbows, and then, incredibly, gullible people asking the rest of us to pay it back - whilst trying to justify it. Macabre doesn't even cover it.:rolleyes:

While all of it breaks the basic rule of the Capitalist system. Succeed or fail.

We have the ludicrous situation of Banks being State-Controlled, and a "Government" pleading with them not to do certain things. Lame duck is too polite a description for it really.

tayto lover

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Bizarre statements, Are you one of those guys at the occupy dame street who think the EU is just a jewish-alien conspiracy trying to poison our water?

Please tell me what is wrong with it if you can.

Liam Byrne

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I think you are worth 500 trillion dollars (source Eurostat European Commission)

Yep, great evidence there. Am I stating a verified stat there or making things up?

If you have a figure from Eurostat, post the link! Otherwise, people make stuff up all the time.

Like Kenny, you left out the word "some".

I asked earlier if you'd view the phrase "politicians are corrupt" as referring to all politicians - Are you refusing to answer ?

The Waltzing Consumer

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Like Kenny, you left out the word "some".

I asked earlier if you'd view the phrase "politicians are corrupt" as referring to all politicians - Are you refusing to answer ?

You did? News to me. These are your posts to me in this thread:

"No idea why you refer to a Daily Mail reference, since I don't read tabloids.
The difference between your example and Kenny is that Kenny is currently charging us all for the drinks bill."

"Well then Kenny should come up with an alternative.
As for the tribunal vote, why should we allow politicians to investigate themselves, given their track record of supporting Ahern, O'Donoghue, O'Dea, Callely, etc ?
How could we trust idiots who think us footing the bill is "just" ?
Whatever slim chance we have of justice at the moment, it would be completely nil if that referendum had been passed."

"No - I don't trust someone no breaks their own pay cap, and anyone who does is being ridiculous.
Your opinion is flawed. When TDs were asked to weed out corruption and dodgy expenses they voted in favour of those involved. We need an independent third party.
Nice try, but that's YOUR contrived and biased reminder, not mine. And it's false, because I'm on record as supporting action against Quinn, therefore I couldn't remind you of that if you were being honest and fair."

"How is it a "separate issue" when they have proven that they have no interest in justice or fairness ?"

Can you point out where you made this statement and where I am refusing to answer?

I love how some people are so quick to place the blame on all our shoulders. Like many others I'm in my mid 20s and while a select few were going crazy we realized that here is no such thing as free money and as such lived within our means. I went to school with some people who got mortgages for crazy figures and loans for a new car each year. If I wanted something expensive I did not run out to the bank or credit union and get a loan, no I saved my wages till I could afford it. There are a number of people who took out ridiculous mortgages and loans that was far beyond their means of ever repaying. While they should have had some cop on a lot of the blame lies at the feet of the banks. they are there to advise people and as such there is a lot of trust placed with them so when they suggest a 100% loan many people assumed that the bank was looking after their best interests.

I don't blame the people of Ireland as a whole for the current economical climate, I blame the banks for not doing their jobs, I blame the greed of many property developers who now own holes in the ground worth hundreds of millions, I blame our elected officials, I blame the EU who sat back an ignored all the warning signs. The average working Irish person is very low down in the blame list.

As for Kenny's comments, when compared to his State of the Nation speech, well it just shows how two faced the man is. He's no better than any of the other liars who have held his office in recent years and the sad thing is that the next one will be as bad.

nacho libre

I guess this situation shows as a politican you can't afford to be consistently honest(if honest at all). What i mean is had he said in his state of the nation address, some of you went mad during the last few years and repeated the same thing in Davos, i'd have a lot of admiration for him. However he would have been seen as a total fool for doing so and roundly condemned. His pr advisers know the public(who they seem to view as automatons to be manipulated) really don't want politicians to tell them the truth.
Well, ironically I, maybe doing what he did, but i think it's fair to say a significant amount of the electorate don't want the harsh facts laid bare in front of them.

I simply feel that's the way the vast majority of Irish people are irrespective of who is in power.

Liam Byrne

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Can you point out where you made this statement and where I am refusing to answer?

It looks like I owe you an apology. I could have sworn that I posted a version of my earliest quote in this thread to you, asking you that question.

As I can't find it, I'll 100% stand corrected and apologise.

Would you care to answer it now ? If Enda leaving out the word "some" was a non-issue, would you object to a thread on here pointing out that "politicians are corrupt" ?

The Waltzing Consumer

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It looks like I owe you an apology. I could have sworn that I posted a version of my earliest quote in this thread to you, asking you that question.

As I can't find it, I'll 100% stand corrected and apologise.

Would you care to answer it now ? If Enda leaving out the word "some" was a non-issue, would you object to a thread on here pointing out that "politicians are corrupt" ?

No worries, all good.

Of course I would have no problem with a thread like that. We often speak in generalities even if we all know there are exceptions to every case. There is something real about speaking about like that, because it is flawed, and so are we.

Liam Byrne

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It looks like I owe you an apology. I could have sworn that I posted a version of my earliest quote in this thread to you, asking you that question.

As I can't find it, I'll 100% stand corrected and apologise.

Would you care to answer it now ? If Enda leaving out the word "some" was a non-issue, would you object to a thread on here pointing out that "politicians are corrupt" ?

No worries, all good.

Of course I would have no problem with a thread like that. We often speak in generalities even if we all know there are exceptions to every case. There is something real about speaking about like that, because it is flawed, and so are we.

I'm a believer in saying exactly what you mean - allowing "flaws" like that can be innocent, but is used in political circles as a get out clause, a la Sargent saying he "wouldn't lead The Greens into Government with FF", or even the whole "principal place of residence" fiasco with Calelly......and if we allow them phrase things like that then they'll never bother to tell the truth in proper English with no ambiguity.

The ally cat

I'm no supporter of Kenny but his only mistake was not saying the word "some", we did lose the run of ourselves, tradesmen suddenly became developers, D I Y men became contractors, many joe soaps jumped on the bandwagon and gambled and bought 2 or 3 houses, the banks gave out the finance, when you went on holidays abroad the places were full of scumbags who didn't work and were pissed from the minute they got on the plane to when they got back. Kennys right but we dont like being told it. Especially the media who must have over indulged more than most judging by their reaction.

coolbeans

Freddie59 wrote: »

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

It's not trite at all to understand that EK was right.

Actually, it is - because he wasn't. It's been pointed out numerous times in this thread why.

[QUOTE=AudreyHepburn;
The normal Irish person or taxpayer had no involvement in any of it.[/

Take your head out of the sand. A largw part of the reason the banks needed such recapitalising is that a huge number of Irish peoe willingly participated and abetted in the irresponsible lending of the banks. You cant have an ireresponsible lender without an equally irresponsible borrower i.e. A huge number of the Irish working population. Oh wait, maybe these people sharw no responsibility cos they were forced to borrow huge amounts. They were forced to do nothing. If you can't see how their bad debts are connected to the cutbacks we now experience you eithrr misunderstand the system thst broke the exchequer or have a bad case of frankly immature denial

tayto lover

coolbeans wrote: »

Freddie59 wrote: »

Actually, it is - because he wasn't. It's been pointed out numerous times in this thread why.

[QUOTE=AudreyHepburn;
The normal Irish person or taxpayer had no involvement in any of it.[/

Take your head out of the sand. A largw part of the reason the banks needed such recapitalising is that a huge number of Irish peoe willingly participated and abetted in the irresponsible lending of the banks. You cant have an ireresponsible lender without an equally irresponsible borrower i.e. A huge number of the Irish working population. Oh wait, maybe these people sharw no responsibility cos they were forced to borrow huge amounts. They were forced to do nothing. If you can't see how their bad debts are connected to the cutbacks we now experience you eithrr misunderstand the system thst broke the exchequer or have a bad case of frankly immature denial

What about the people who didn't participate ? Are they guilty too ? They are being made feel guilty by Enda contradicting his earlier statements and causing confusion and anger.

delaad

Re: Opening Post -

Oh! Yes he did!

(the rumour that e. kenny thinks he's in a pantomine is true, ....but he hasn't been told yet.)

LighterGuy

I was always under the impression that the economic crisis was caused by 3 things:

- the banks.
- the government.
- and to a lesser extent to the above, but a factor too, was people.

one foot in the grave

When Enda Kenny addressed the nation he told us that it wasn't our fault even though we would be paying the price for the mistakes made. He now tells the rest of the World that "we" partied.
In doing so he insulted the majority of people in this country and lead the World to believe the stereotype of "the Irish".
He gave a very superficial and ignorant answer to a complex question that would lead one to question his own understanding of the current situation

ascanbe

Kenny was, and has been since he's come to power, talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Just like he and his party slyly and duplicitously gave people, in the run up to the election, the impression that they'd do one thing, yet left enough wiggle room in their 'promises' so that they could say that 'technically' they're keeping their word.
Kenny, in his 'address to the nation' was only concerned with doing the poltically expedient thing; telling 'the people', ie voters, that it's not their fault.
When he found himself at this Davos shin-dig, holding court in front of people who actually 'matter', you could see how he got puffed up on his own self-importance and revealed what he and his party really think and how they are, and intend to continue, dealing with this crisis.
The message was simple; we know that we have to suck up/lie to the plebs at home, but don't worry, we know what's 'really' going on and we're totally on board with bleeding our country dry of every red cent of disposbale income in order to pay off the debts of your banks.
He was so impressed with the chance to hold court in front of these people that he forgot himself; and forgot to couch his and his party's real agenda in the duplicitous language they reserve for talking to us.

The ally cat

ascanbe wrote: »

Kenny was, and has been since he's come to power, talking out of both sides of his mouth.
Just like he and his party slyly and duplicitously gave people, in the run up to the election, the impression that they'd do one thing, yet left enough wiggle room in their 'promises' so that they could say that 'technically' they're keeping their word.
Kenny, in his 'address to the nation' was only concerned with doing the poltically expedient thing; telling 'the people', ie voters, that it's not their fault.
When he found himself at this Davos shin-dig, holding court in front of people who actually 'matter', you could see how he got puffed up on his own self-importance and revealed what he and his party really think and how they are, and intend to continue, dealing with this crisis.
The message was simple; we know that we have to suck up/lie to the plebs at home, but don't worry, we know what's 'really' going on and we're totally on board with bleeding our country dry of every red cent of disposbale income in order to pay off the debts of your banks.
He was so impressed with the chance to hold court in front of these people that he forgot himself; and forgot to couch his and his party's real agenda in the duplicitous language they reserve for talking to us.

I was disappointed with him in his pre budget speech when he said we werent to blame as clearly many irish people were to blame. Christ! we bought large sections of Bulgaria when we couldn't buy here, joe soaps driving around in 4 * 4's with 2 and 3 houses, less of the shock, don't blame anyone else if your up to your neck in debt from property and credit card debt, no one forced you! He's bang on!

ascanbe

The ally cat wrote: »

I was disappointed with him in his pre budget speech when he said we werent to blame as clearly many irish people were to blame. Christ! we bought large sections of Bulgaria when we couldn't buy here, joe soaps driving around in 4 * 4's with 2 and 3 houses, less of the shock, don't blame anyone else if your up to your neck in debt from property and credit card debt, no one forced you! He's bang on!

I didn't borrow any money from banks during the 'Celtic Tiger' days.
And, honestly, i know no-one personally who borrowed money in order to buy a flash car or to buy property abroad.
I know some young couples who borrowed in order to buy a house presuming that they'd still have a job in the future and would be able to pay off the mortgage, as they fell into the trap of believing what the media and our government of the day was telling them; you better get on the 'property ladder' now, or soon you won't be able to afford to buy a place to live.
They were misguided, as it happens; but that's hardly the worst crime, is it?
Anyway, they're left to try and pay off their debts.
The problem is that those who lent to our banks in order to make a profit don't have to pay for their failed gamble as those in power in this country see fit to pay them off; the entire bill has been placed on the backs of tax-payers in this country and everyone in this county, whether they borrowed a cent or not is expected to pay for their profligacy/mistake.
And remember, the people who borrowed money/perhaps made a bad decision, in this country aren't exempt from their debt like these foreign banks/bondholders are; they still have to pay it, if they can, and, on top of that, have to pay extra taxes etc and watch as their country is economically filleted in order to pay off those who made bad gambles/lending decisions.

The ally cat

ascanbe wrote: »

The ally cat wrote: »

I was disappointed with him in his pre budget speech when he said we werent to blame as clearly many irish people were to blame. Christ! we bought large sections of Bulgaria when we couldn't buy here, joe soaps driving around in 4 * 4's with 2 and 3 houses, less of the shock, don't blame anyone else if your up to your neck in debt from property and credit card debt, no one forced you! He's bang on!

I didn't borrow any money from banks during the 'Celtic Tiger' days.
And, honestly, i know no-one personally who borrowed money in order to buy a flash car or to buy property abroad.
I know some young couples who borrowed in order to buy a house presuming that they'd still have a job in the future and would be able to pay off the mortgage, as they fell into the trap of believing what the media and our government of the day was telling them; you better get on the 'property ladder' now, or soon you won't be able to afford to buy a place to live.
They were misguided, as it happens; but that's hardly the worst crime, is it?
Anyway, they're left to try and pay off their debts.
The problem is that those who lent to our banks in order to make a profit don't have to pay for their failed gamble as those in power in this country see fit to pay them off; the entire bill has been placed on the backs of tax-payers in this country and everyone in this county, whether they borrowed a cent or not is expected to pay for their profligacy/mistake.
And remember, the people who borrowed money/perhaps made a bad decision, in this country aren't exempt from their debt like these foreign banks/bondholders are; they still have to pay it, if they can, and, on top of that, have to pay extra taxes etc and watch as their country is economically filleted in order to pay off those who made bad gambles/lending decisions.

I didnt borrow either from the banks diring this time and I feel sorry for those who borrowed heavily in an inflated market just to get on the property market to get their first home. But the greed I saw wasn't with just developers, many many ordinary people jumped on the bandwagon and gambled with 2nd and 3rd homes but at the time they didn't really believe they were taking a gamble. It had to bust. Funny I don't recall enda Kenny or Gilmore crying halt in 2004 - 2007 in the absolutely mad years. Hindsight is great

gigino

The ally cat wrote: »

Funny I don't recall enda Kenny or Gilmore crying halt in 2004 - 2007 in the absolutely mad years.

Not only that, but if the FF/PD's tried to stop the bubble they would have attacked them. FF bought votes by doubling public service pay and social welfare and lowering taxes. Kenny or Gilmore did not cry halt. Plus ALL the politicians paid themselves much more than they deserved to be paid. At one stage our teeshock was paid more than the President of the USA. Kenny is still paid double what Cameron in the UK is paid.

Leadership should come from the top. If I ever met the f***** in the DAil during the boom I'd thump them, I really would. They controlled the country, the Central bank, the regulator etc. ....and they f***d up, not the hard working people of the country who were told to commit suicide if they thought it was a bubble.

NakedNNettles

There are many people on this planet, both wolves and sheep.

During booms everyone thinks they're a wolf but it is in the bust that we find the real wolves. A wolf thrives on chaos, they circle the sheep creating panic, then picking them off one by one.

This is what these kind of threads and Ireland remind me of everyday, uncertainty, chaos, division, panic.

Question is.... who is the wolf?

one foot in the grave

This country has been having this debate over whether or not "we" went mad since the bank bailout in 2008.
We really should be discussing Mr Kenny and his, lets face it, very poor performance to date. He has reinforced the stereotype of "the Irish" to the World. When we go looking for a cut in interest rates will we be told .. well, you went mad, only have yourselves to blame?
And the sight of a millionaire businessman coming to his aid was nauseating. Dennis O'Brien has close associations with FG. The Moriarty Tribunal found 'beyond doubt' that a FG Minister imparted substantive information to Denis O'Brien which was 'of significant value and assistance to him in securing the [Esat Digifone] licence'.

the purple tin

The ally cat wrote: »

I was disappointed with him in his pre budget speech when he said we werent to blame as clearly many irish people were to blame. Christ! we bought large sections of Bulgaria when we couldn't buy here, joe soaps driving around in 4 * 4's with 2 and 3 houses, less of the shock, don't blame anyone else if your up to your neck in debt from property and credit card debt, no one forced you! He's bang on!

During the boom years the majority of the ordinary working class Irish people did live within their means. Some people did "go mad" as Kenny says but only a relatively small amount of people.
People who keep trotting out the "it was all our own fault, we all have to take the blame before we can move on" line have been brainwashed by FF and now FG. It's just a tactic to take the heat off the chancers who really caused this shambles.

gcgirl

the purple tin wrote: »

The ally cat wrote: »

I was disappointed with him in his pre budget speech when he said we werent to blame as clearly many irish people were to blame. Christ! we bought large sections of Bulgaria when we couldn't buy here, joe soaps driving around in 4 * 4's with 2 and 3 houses, less of the shock, don't blame anyone else if your up to your neck in debt from property and credit card debt, no one forced you! He's bang on!

During the boom years the majority of the ordinary working class Irish people did live within their means. Some people did "go mad" as Kenny says but only a relatively small amount of people.
People who keep trotting out the "it was all our own fault, we all have to take the blame before we can move on" line have been brainwashed by FF and now FG. It's just a tactic to take the heat off the chancers who really caused this shambles.

My ex's father remortgage every other year I remember a family wedding in London himself and my self did Ryan air to stansted the rest paid treble what we did you fly in directly to London city with city jet and taxi from there to statford while we bused it, I personally thought the expensive route was a total waste of time but that was what their are like they lived on credit and also they were employed in the construction sector so when it fell it hit them hard and I told them as far back as 04 that it was going to burst I am raging I did not go to the bookies but I know quite a few families now struggling with their debt due to stupidity

the purple tin

gcgirl wrote: »

My ex's father remortgage every other year I remember a family wedding in London himself and my self did Ryan air to stansted the rest paid treble what we did you fly in directly to London city with city jet and taxi from there to statford while we bused it, I personally thought the expensive route was a total waste of time but that was what their are like they lived on credit and also they were employed in the construction sector so when it fell it hit them hard and I told them as far back as 04 that it was going to burst I am raging I did not go to the bookies but I know quite a few families now struggling with their debt due to stupidity

Exactly, some people did live like that. But the majority of normal Irish people didn't.
Anyone who says that the entire Irish public carried on like that for years, either has a personal agenda or they are swallowing the spin from our incompetent politicians.

gcgirl

the purple tin wrote: »

gcgirl wrote: »

My ex's father remortgage every other year I remember a family wedding in London himself and my self did Ryan air to stansted the rest paid treble what we did you fly in directly to London city with city jet and taxi from there to statford while we bused it, I personally thought the expensive route was a total waste of time but that was what their are like they lived on credit and also they were employed in the construction sector so when it fell it hit them hard and I told them as far back as 04 that it was going to burst I am raging I did not go to the bookies but I know quite a few families now struggling with their debt due to stupidity

Exactly, some people did live like that. But the majority of normal Irish people didn't.
Anyone who says that the entire Irish public carried on like that for years, either has a personal agenda or they are swallowing the spin from our incompetent politicians.

I agree with you there but as much as I dislike kenny he did not say "all" Irish people he said Irish people, I've said before people looked at homes as investments to make a profit in a couple of years not as a home, and bought 2,3 or 4 houses, to hold on to then sell on at a profit.

The Waltzing Consumer

the purple tin wrote: »

Exactly, some people did live like that. But the majority of normal Irish people didn't.
Anyone who says that the entire Irish public carried on like that for years, either has a personal agenda or they are swallowing the spin from our incompetent politicians.

:rolleyes: He did not say the entire Irish public, too many Helen Lovejoys on this thread.

I have spoken to a good few people who work in mortgage collections for a bank, unfortunately, the majority of people they deal with are normal people who did get carried away. Of course they deal with developers too, but the vast majority if their work is the everday working/middle class people.

the purple tin

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

:rolleyes: He did not say the entire Irish public, too many Helen Lovejoys on this thread.

I have spoken to a good few people who work in mortgage collections for a bank, unfortunately, the majority of people they deal with are normal people who did get carried away. Of course they deal with developers too, but the vast majority if their work is the everday working/middle class people.

Won't someone please think of the children?
I didn't say that Kenny said it. I said anyone that does say it-(several posters on recession threads have)

These working class people who got carried away, what exactly did they do? Where they buying up numerous houses to sell on like the ones gcgirl mentioned?
Someone who works with mortgage collections is going to see an awful lot of people who simply bought a home to live in, it wouldn't be fair to say that those people got carried away.

Freddie59

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

:rolleyes: He did not say the entire Irish public, too many Helen Lovejoys on this thread.

Speaking during a discussion on rebuilding Europe at the forum in Davos yesterday, Mr Kenny sparked a storm of controversy when he said the country's financial crisis happened because "people went mad borrowing".

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0127/breaking5.html

Not some people. People. Painting us as a nation of finacnial incompetents. Well done Enda. And those who defend and support you.:rolleyes: You've done the country proud.....NOT. Twit.

And as for Hogan's remarks about 'no-one being more in touch'. Give me a fcuking break. On his salary? I don't think so.

Freddie59

coolbeans wrote: »

Freddie59 wrote: »

Actually, it is - because he wasn't. It's been pointed out numerous times in this thread why.

[QUOTE=AudreyHepburn;
The normal Irish person or taxpayer had no involvement in any of it.

You cant have an ireresponsible lender without an equally irresponsible borrower i.e. A huge number of the Irish working population. Oh wait, maybe these people sharw no responsibility cos they were forced to borrow huge amounts.

Ha ha. God loves a trier.:D You could not have the irresponsible borrower had the irresponsible lender not acted first. Economics 101.

A huge number? How much, exactly?

Those 181 that borrowed the 60Bn?

The overpaid politicians and their band of CS/PS supporters costing us 400m a week?

Leaves around 1.5 million people being asked to pay for the fcuk-ups of others - and to keep the political/CS/PS/SW gravy train on the rails.

Well?

Freddie59

LighterGuy wrote: »

I was always under the impression that the economic crisis was caused by 3 things:

- the banks.
- the government.
- and to a lesser extent to the above, but a factor too, was people.

How many people?

Sub-categories for Government:

The bloated Public Sector and its wage bill.

The ridiculously generous Social Welfare System.

The ludicrous 'entitlements' of the Civil Service.

A ridiculously high number of TDs per capita.

The vulgar obscenity that is the Seanad.

Liam Byrne

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

the purple tin wrote: »

Exactly, some people did live like that. But the majority of normal Irish people didn't.
Anyone who says that the entire Irish public carried on like that for years, either has a personal agenda or they are swallowing the spin from our incompetent politicians.

:rolleyes: He did not say the entire Irish public, too many Helen Lovejoys on this thread.

I have spoken to a good few people who work in mortgage collections for a bank, unfortunately, the majority of people they deal with are normal people who did get carried away. Of course they deal with developers too, but the vast majority if their work is the everday working/middle class people.

He didn't say "some" either.

Mind you, he had already told ALL TV watchers "you are not to blame", so unless he was being a two-faced prat at the time, he obviously reckons that Ahern, Fitzpatrick, Quinn, Drumm and his own overpaid advisors don't watch Irish TV.

the purple tin

one foot in the grave wrote: »

When Enda Kenny addressed the nation he told us that it wasn't our fault even though we would be paying the price for the mistakes made. He now tells the rest of the World that "we" partied.
In doing so he insulted the majority of people in this country and lead the World to believe the stereotype of "the Irish".
He gave a very superficial and ignorant answer to a complex question that would lead one to question his own understanding of the current situation

Very true. We can't forget that he was speaking to the world media and a lot of people in other countries wouldn't be clued in on our situation.

That will be the quote that they will remember whenever they think about our recession. That all the Irish people went mad with greed and stupidity and brought it all on ourselves, and their own leader said it, so it must be true.

Freddie59

the purple tin wrote: »

Very true. We can't forget that he was speaking to the world media and a lot of people in other countries wouldn't be clued in on our situation.

That will be the quote that they will remember whenever they think about our recession. That all the Irish people went mad with greed and stupidity and brought it all on ourselves, and their own leader said it, so it must be true.

Only one phrase for it. GUBU.

The Waltzing Consumer

Liam Byrne wrote: »

He didn't say "some" either.

Mind you, he had already told ALL TV watchers "you are not to blame", so unless he was being a two-faced prat at the time, he obviously reckons that Ahern, Fitzpatrick, Quinn, Drumm and his own overpaid advisors don't watch Irish TV.

Ah lads, scraping the barrel here. If you are a child, then yes, you can take this attitude of "he told me it was not my fault" but seriously, you are speaking to adults here. You want something to give out about, end of, and this is the best you can come up with? Let it go Liam, it just looks silly.