Barrel length effect.

poulo6.5

tommyboy26 wrote: »

Very nice piece of kit. 31" barrell i have never seen one that lenght. is there a reason you went with that lenght?

the extra length allows you to take advantage of a few extra FPS that you would otherwise loose in a short barrel

i thought the op new that

dev110

I had a design in mind, but changed my mind in the middle of the build. The barrel was shortened from 32 to 31 to accomodate this change in design. Could have went to 30", but there was no need to cut it to 30" just to keep the number even.

Also there is at best about 30-35 fps extra with a 31" instead of a 30" barrel. When shooting out to 800 - 1,000 yards thats nothing.

Thanks for asking though.

poulo6.5

dev110 wrote: »

I had a design in mind, but changed my mind in the middle of the build. The barrel was shortened from 32 to 31 to accomodate this change in design. Could have went to 30", but there was no need to cut it to 30" just to keep the number even.

Also there is at best about 30-35 fps extra with a 31" instead of a 30" barrel. When shooting out to 800 - 1,000 yards thats nothing.

Thanks for asking though.

30-35 FPS can change the poi by 12" or more inches. in a game where consistency is everything. that can make the difference between winning and nowhere

Cass

He won't be changing barrels between shots so what are you talking about when you say "change in POI".

dev110

I won't be chopping the barrel half way through the match...

poulo6.5

Ezridax wrote: »

He won't be changing barrels between shots so what are you talking about when you say "change in POI".

that would be a good trick if he could. but to say that 35 FPS is nothing at a thousand yards is wrong

anyway best of luck with your new rig:D

what weight bullets do you hope to use for it. or have you decided yet.

Cass

poulo6.5 wrote: »

. but to say that 35 FPS is nothing at a thousand yards is wrong .

No its not, and i'm talking from experience not some Balistic calculator.

You are thinking the wrong way. He will loose approx. 30-35 fps going from 32" to 31". Thats 6-8 inches at 1,000 yards. Again thats from experience not a BC. As he will have the same barrel on the rifle he will reach a speed with a chosen bullet, and then maintain that speed by continuing to use that bullet in th 31" barrel.

You seem to think that he will loose out on 30-35 fps between shots which is not possible as its the same barrel. The comparison of loss was made between a 32-31 inch barrel.

Its a moot point and quite frankly its derailing the thread.

Cass

Split out from FTR thread.

poulo6.5

Ezridax wrote: »

No its not, and i'm talking from experience not some Balistic calculator.

You are thinking the wrong way. He will loose approx. 30-35 fps going from 32" to 31". Thats 6-8 inches at 1,000 yards. Again thats from experience not a BC. As he will have the same barrel on the rifle he will reach a speed with a chosen bullet, and then maintain that speed by continuing to use that bullet in th 31" barrel.

You seem to think that he will loose out on 30-35 fps between shots which is not possible as its the same barrel. The comparison of loss was made between a 32-31 inch barrel.

Its a moot point and quite frankly its derailing the thread.

i am not trying to derail the thread at all. are we not having a conversation here.

i said nothing about loosing or gaining. just there is a difference. as asked by another poster

i also made no reference to a 21" barrel so i dont know what you got that from.

what makes you think i have never shot out to 1000y and as such you are questioning my experience.

i will say it again well wear with the new rig, and if we can not discus this in a civil manner then i will leave you guys to it

you just edited my post so so will i. you originally said 32" and 21" where i highlighted your post.

you are not playing fair

tommyboy26

I have a 30" lilja barrell. what would the advantage of having a 31" 32" barrell

Cass

poulo6.5 wrote: »

i am not trying to derail the thread at all. are we not having a conversation here.

Not anymore. I've split the thread.

i said nothing about loosing or gaining. just there is a difference. as asked by another poster

You said there would be a 12" difference in POI at 1,000 yards with the 30-35fps difference. You also said ;

poulo6.5 wrote:

in a game where consistency is everything. that can make the difference between winning and nowhere

How so. Please explain to me how a 31" barrel shooting a bullet 30-35 fps slower yet consistantly would be any less accurate or consistant than a 32" barrel with an extra 30-35fps.

As i said above you seem to be crossing over your train of thought and implying there will be a difference of 30-35fps per shot.

i also made no reference to a 21" barrel so i dont know what you got that from.

Ah right. I see where this is going. I hit the 2 key instead of the 3 key and you jump on it as a reason to argue you didn't say something. Fair enough so. I've edited it now though, but your point is well taken.

what makes you think i have never shot out to 1000y and as such you are questioning my experience.

My apologies. I've never seen you on the firing line at the midlands so excuse my making assumptions. Have you?

, and if we can not discus this in a civil manner then i will leave you guys to it

Its civil as far as i can see. No name calling merely a debate on points of view.

tommyboy26 wrote: »

I have a 30" lilja barrell. what would the advantage of having a 31" 32" barrell

Not alot. A little more speed/stability. 30" is more than enough. between 30-32 is a personal choice. Anything after 32" is not necessary. There are no advantages in relation to speed, etc that offset the extra weight those additional 2-4" of barrel cause.

poulo6.5

for a start there could be easily more than 35FPS between shots depending on the quality of the ammo you use.
as it is not legal for us to reload here we have no control over the ammo we buy. only to allow for the extreme spread and standard deviation

i have never shot 1000y in midlands but i do have a range finder and plenty of places to practice and check the difference between faster and slower rounds. a chronograph explains a lot when you hit low.

and i did see you edited your post after i commented. clever.

anyway this all started in a different thread that you split from where the op said it made no difference at 1000y. i only showed the difference.

.243

poulo6.5 wrote: »

30-35 FPS can change the poi by 12" or more

thats complete bull,
just because his speed is reduced doesnt mean his groups are going to be 12 inches,
it just means is groups are going to be lower impacting on the target,

oh hang on a sec... is that what that turret thing is used for on the top of the scope :rolleyes:

poulo6.5

.243 wrote: »

thats complete bull,
just because his speed is reduced doesnt mean his groups are going to be 12 inches,
it just means is groups are going to be lower impacting on the target,

oh hang on a sec... is that what that turret thing is used for on the top of the scope :rolleyes:

correct and true. well said

Cass

poulo6.5 wrote: »

for a start there could be easily more than 35FPS between shots depending on the quality of the ammo you use.
as it is not legal for us to reload here we have no control over the ammo we buy. only to allow for the extreme spread and standard deviation

Not really. I reload and have done load developement as part of the pilot scheme in the midlands including chronographing with different loads, different bullets, and different barrels.

i have never shot 1000y in midlands but i do have a range finder and plenty of places to practice and check the difference between faster and slower rounds.

What you're describing sounds terribly like target shooting outside of an authorised range which is not permitted or legal. For your own sake i would be be cautious what you say on an open forum in relation to this.

a chronograph explains a lot when you hit low.

Very true. Found that out the day i chrono'd a few factory loads, and one hit low. When i checked the chrono is was almost 200 fps slower than the previous few shots. Explained the drop. otherwise i could have been questioning my hold, breathing, technique, etc.

and i did see you edited your post after i commented. clever.

Not really. I said i done so.

anyway this all started in a different thread that you split from where the op said it made no difference at 1000y. i only showed the difference.

I know. The topic is a good one hence the reason i split it. I don;t get much of a chance to talk about F-Class so enjoy it when a thread comes up.

There is a difference, a minimal difference, but one none the less. I believe, and i'm paraphrasing here, that the OP in the other thread meant the difference is so small as to not be an issue or be small enough to ignore especially when you consider that as he will be staying with the 31" barrel and a 1/2MOA or 3/4 MOa will sort out any difference between a 31 to 32" barrel. After this minor adjustment they will shoot consistantly if you feed them the right ammo.

poulo6.5

Ezridax wrote: »

Not really. I reload and have done load developement as part of the pilot scheme in the midlands including chronographing with different loads, different bullets, and different barrels.

i gather you load for your self and not the op. because that would be not legal as you put it. as such the rest of us are still stuck with shop bought ammo. or have you something to tell us.

Ezridax wrote:

What you're describing sounds terribly like target shooting outside of an authorised range which is not permitted or legal. For your own sake i would be be cautious what you say on an open forum in relation to this.

have plenty of permissions where i have the opportunity to shoot 1000y and beyond. i dont have any restriction on my license as to how far i can shoot.
feel free to take it further

Ezridax wrote:

Very true. Found that out the day i chrono'd a few factory loads, and one hit low. When i checked the chrono is was almost 200 fps slower than the previous few shots. Explained the drop. otherwise i could have been questioning my hold, breathing, technique, etc.

Not really. I said i done so.

I know. The topic is a good one hence the reason i split it. I don;t get much of a chance to talk about F-Class so enjoy it when a thread comes up.

There is a difference, a minimal difference, but one none the less. I believe, and i'm paraphrasing here, that the OP in the other thread meant the difference is so small as to not be an issue or be small enough to ignore especially when you consider that as he will be staying with the 31" barrel and a 1/2MOA or 3/4 MOa will sort out any difference between a 31 to 32" barrel. After this minor adjustment they will shoot consistantly if you feed them the right ammo.

i think you are just going around in circles here. lets just say you are absolutely right. as i couldn't be bothered arguing with you. you have proven the point i wanted to make anyway;)

Cass

poulo6.5 wrote: »

i gather you load for your self and not the op.

Of course i do. Why would i load for the OP? I have made no mention of reloading for anyone but myself and as the MNSCI strictly controls the componants used in reloading that would not be possible even if i were so inclined.

because that would be not legal as you put it.

Really. How so?

. or have you something to tell us.

Nothing. Why? Is there something you would like to say to me?

i have plenty of permissions where i have the opportunity to shoot 1000y and beyond. i dont have any restriction on my license as to how far i can shoot.
feel free to take it further

For game? Because the minute you go from shooting at game to shooting at targets thats when the problems start.

i think you are just going around in circles here. lets just say you are absolutely right. as i couldn't be bothered arguing with you. you have proven the point i wanted to make anyway;)

Thats a little disheartening. Why not continue to argue your point?

There is no need to get annoyed and walk away.

poulo6.5

Ezridax wrote: »

Of course i do. Why would i load for the OP? I have made no mention of reloading for anyone but myself and as the MNSCI strictly controls the componants used in reloading that would not be possible even if i were so inclined.

Really. How so?

Nothing. Why? Is there something you would like to say to me?

For game? Because the minute you go from shooting at game to shooting at targets thats when the problems start.

thats another thread entirely. but i will tell you that i have practised my shooting at various ranges to confirm my data. it would be irresponsible to hunt without knowing your drops for a clean kill..

from what you are saying, anyone that bought a rifle and fitted a scope is breaking the law when they check it for 0.

Ezridax wrote:

Thats a little disheartening. Why not continue to argue your point?

There is no need to get annoyed and walk away.

well sean as how you asked nicely,

Cass

poulo6.5 wrote: »

thats another thread entirely. but i will tell you that i have practised my shooting at various ranges to confirm my data. it would be irresponsible to hunt without knowing your drops for a clean kill..

I will again ask you to consider what you are saying before talking further on the matter. For your own sake.

from what you are saying, anyone that bought a rifle and fitted a scope is breaking the law when they check it for 0.

Yup.

Thats exactly what i'm saying. The law makes no allowance for zeroing. Once you shoot at a target for whatever reason outside an authorised range you are breaking the law.

Whether a Garda does you for it or not is another matter, but it is entirely at their discretion.

poulo6.5

Ezridax wrote: »

I will again ask you to consider what you are saying before talking further on the matter. For your own sake.

Yup.

Thats exactly what i'm saying. The law makes no allowance for zeroing. Once you shoot at a target for whatever reason outside an authorised range you are breaking the law.

Whether a Garda does you for it or not is another matter, but it is entirely at their discretion.

i am and have nothing to hide

tomcat220t

Ezridax wrote: »

I will again ask you to consider what you are saying before talking further on the matter. For your own sake.

Yup.

Thats exactly what i'm saying. The law makes no allowance for zeroing. Once you shoot at a target for whatever reason outside an authorised range you are breaking the law.

Whether a Garda does you for it or not is another matter, but it is entirely at their discretion.

Im not saying right or wrong on this because i dont know but i assume there is something in writing on having to zero any rifle on an authorised range ?
If your correct that makes most of us ..(including myself) guilty of breaking the law :eek:.

Sparks

tomcat220t wrote: »

Im not saying right or wrong on this because i dont know but i assume there is something in writing on having to zero any rifle on an authorised range ?
If your correct that makes most of us ..(including myself) guilty of breaking the law :eek:.

Yup.
It's a lovely gray area that crept in because Michael McDowell didn't realise that hunters don't fire absolutely every single last shot at game, or that rifles' zeros need to be checked.
He did publicly say that he didn't mean to outlaw zeroing.
Unfortunately, that statement had no legal weight whatsoever, and the Act itself still makes zeroing when not on an authorised range illegal.

roosman

It may be of interest in the barrel length debate, there is a very good article about this in Sporting Rifle magazine (a good one too on boar hunting abroad)

http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/sporting-rifle-magazine/id376807699?mt=8