Dilemma of sorts, job vs business?

zig

Hi all ,
I was going to write this in Personal Issues as its not strictly business related, more a decision I must make myself. But I would much rather advice from other start ups, and other experienced entrepreneurs etc rather than casual advice from people giving their 2c.

Reason being, you will have better insight into what it is Im about to get into.

Basically Im setting up food product business, flavoured Peanuts. The flavours , the packaging, the branding etc, is ALL unique. You can't purchase these flavours anywhere else.

Feedback has been great, Ive been to quite a few farmers markets, and some car boot sales, and I would say 90% of people that tested samples purchased.
My target market however will be small shops, bars, and hotels. And if I grow in the future, then larger chains, etc.

Ive alot of the health/safety/HAACP elements sorted and am ready to register with the HSE.
Ive been chatting to Social Welfare and am nearly good to go to go on the Back to Work Enterprise Allowance. They just asked me to get Paul Partnership to look at the business plan and see could they help fix it up, before I present it to them.
I have received alot of advice in general, and have completed a Start your Own Business Course, and am currently doing a FETAC level 5 HAACP course just to insure Im up to scratch.
Now I still have some issues to deal with in terms of figuring out a better way of extending the best before date, and also dealing with pricing etc, but overall there is good momentum.

Anyway, reason I gave all those details is to express how seriously I want to take this.

Heres the dilemma, its looking like there is a job available to me, a permanent one, completely unrelated to business/food industry etc.

But this job would probably give me a relatively decent career in the long run. The fact that its permanent says enough.
This is obviously appealing, but the business has been exciting me more and more over the past few months. Granted Ive no idea will it be a success or not, but I have always wanted to work for myself, and tend to get very down in conventional jobs after some time.

What do you think I should do?
People say, "Go with your gut" etc. But I would much rather hear some practical views on this from experienced and even newly forming business people.
Am I mad and naive to try and pursue this given the economic climate?
Am I mad to take the risk given the odds arent exactly in my favour? Or do you think it really IS a case of "go with your gut?"

Any help would be great
Cheers

zig

Ill just add one more detail,

A few months back , while setting this , I took contract work for 3 months. I found it incredibly difficult to keep pushing with the business, for a few reasons, time, energy, even contacting and meeting people became impossible.
So Im not sure could I take the job and do this too. Perhaps thats lazy as well, but it can be tough trying to do both.

Also , Ive no mortgage or kids,
Its probably fairly obvious what decision I want to take. But I just dont want to be stupid and naive about it if you get me.

NomadicMe

Research, research, research.

Gut and intuition are good for certain things but while setting up a business, you need facts.

If you go on your own, will you be able to sustain yourself and make profit- simple as- do the cash flow, realistically figure out expenses and sales. Good response in farmer's market shows that there is demand but is there enough of a demand?

If you are going to make profit, then follow your gut and decide with what makes you feel better.

All the best- not an easy decision but hopefully you will make the right one for you.

zig

Thanks NomadicMe
Thats good advice (the practical kind I was looking for:))
I have the cashflow made out for the year, but unfortunately it is based completely on assumptions. Sometimes I think Im being conservative, other times its the opposite.

I guess all I can do is take your advice and talk to more retailers, bar owners, etc and see can they give me an indication of what kind of sales I could expect.

Thanks again.

Chet Zar

Jobs come and go, and a job is just a job no matter what - but especially so when no kids/no mortgage. Also it'd be different if you were asking about leaving a job, instead of not taking one up.

Go for it. Life is short. Your passion and determination comes through very clearly and it sounds like you'll only be happy committing 100% and seeing this through.

Just my 2 cents as the man says.

adsw

I would say go for it too. I have a wife and 2 young kids, so would probably have to take the job option but as you have no dependents, you're putting no one at risk only yourself.

And as above, life is too short !!

Best of luck

ifah

sounds like you're already leaning towards the business - i would probably be inclined that direction too.

Try think of it this way : in the future what is the likelihood of you ever being in a position to start this business again versus what is the likelihood of you finding a job with someone else ?

I would think if you let this opportunity pass you by now you might be in a different set of circmstances (family / kids / mortgage etc) if the chance comes around again and you might not have the freedom to take a chance.

brownbinman

have you a business plan? How many units will you have to sell to breakeven? Is there a bigger opportunity with larger buyers? If you approach them, and perhaps get a purchase order or even letter of intent, that could make your mind up.

As NomadicMe said, research is the key. The research you did, who did you ask and what did you ask them? The research needs to be rigorous and thorough.

Hope this helps

Gloomtastic!

You only regret the things in life you didn't do as opposed to things you did. Nuff said.

Do it, review it, change it.

bcool

zig wrote: »

Hi all ,
I was going to write this in Personal Issues as its not strictly business related, more a decision I must make myself. But I would much rather advice from other start ups, and other experienced entrepreneurs etc rather than casual advice from people giving their 2c.

Reason being, you will have better insight into what it is Im about to get into.

Basically Im setting up food product business, flavoured Peanuts. The flavours , the packaging, the branding etc, is ALL unique. You can't purchase these flavours anywhere else.

Feedback has been great, Ive been to quite a few farmers markets, and some car boot sales, and I would say 90% of people that tested samples purchased.
My target market however will be small shops, bars, and hotels. And if I grow in the future, then larger chains, etc.

Ive alot of the health/safety/HAACP elements sorted and am ready to register with the HSE.
Ive been chatting to Social Welfare and am nearly good to go to go on the Back to Work Enterprise Allowance. They just asked me to get Paul Partnership to look at the business plan and see could they help fix it up, before I present it to them.
I have received alot of advice in general, and have completed a Start your Own Business Course, and am currently doing a FETAC level 5 HAACP course just to insure Im up to scratch.
Now I still have some issues to deal with in terms of figuring out a better way of extending the best before date, and also dealing with pricing etc, but overall there is good momentum.

Anyway, reason I gave all those details is to express how seriously I want to take this.

Heres the dilemma, its looking like there is a job available to me, a permanent one, completely unrelated to business/food industry etc.

But this job would probably give me a relatively decent career in the long run. The fact that its permanent says enough.
This is obviously appealing, but the business has been exciting me more and more over the past few months. Granted Ive no idea will it be a success or not, but I have always wanted to work for myself, and tend to get very down in conventional jobs after some time.

What do you think I should do?
People say, "Go with your gut" etc. But I would much rather hear some practical views on this from experienced and even newly forming business people.
Am I mad and naive to try and pursue this given the economic climate?
Am I mad to take the risk given the odds arent exactly in my favour? Or do you think it really IS a case of "go with your gut?"

Any help would be great
Cheers

Hi
The reason i came across your post was, i too am in the process of setting up in business and typed in business plan into search bar,as i need to do one to get going, and here we are.
My situation is similar to yours, Unemployed ( 3 months) been offered work ,(poor money compared to what i was on) and have also a lot of work done an setting up on my own.

Your case is differnt as i believe the job you have been offered seeems to be ok, as you are thinking of taking it up.

I have done the start your own business course. (Enterprise Ireland).It us helpful but not the answer to your dreams. There is a very good mentoring programme in place , but at the end of the day its down to You.

One thing that i learned from the course is they said about working and trying to start a business is extremely difficult. And in your case ,if you wanted to try both i think it would be even more difficult as you would be starting a new job , which will take time to settle into as well as trying to get a business off the ground.

But like the other posts have said it seems you are veering towards the peanuts end of things.

You mentioned the back to work allowance scheme. This i believe is a great incentive in your case. If you have been unemployed for more than a year you keep your benifits for a limited period etc. etc.
You have no mortgage etc. so you are not under severe financial pressure like 700,000 other people (including myself).

I will finish by saying its your choice but this is how i see it
Choice 1
Take the job, save money, build up a good relationship with the bank , buy a house (property rock bottom). Have a happy life in a job that you may or may not like, but at the end of the day it keeps the bills paid and bread on the table.
Choice 2
Go for it. But be prepared for a roller coaster . Next 3 years broke. You will think of nothing else only business . The bank will treat you like dirt.You will not get a mortgage untill business is making alot of money. (5 years i predict if it goes really well for you). You will have alot of doors slammed in your face ( trying to sell your peanuts) etc etc

Best of Luck either way
Ps. In 2006 i took home 85000 a year in job i hated.
I hope to take home 20000 in my first year of business but to be happy at it.
See you on Dragons Den

NomadicMe

zig wrote: »

Thanks NomadicMe
Thats good advice (the practical kind I was looking for:))
I have the cashflow made out for the year, but unfortunately it is based completely on assumptions. Sometimes I think Im being conservative, other times its the opposite.

I guess all I can do is take your advice and talk to more retailers, bar owners, etc and see can they give me an indication of what kind of sales I could expect.

Thanks again.

No cashflow is going to be perfect- it's an art, not a science but if you are 10% within expectations, it's extremely good. Start off conversative- always more fun beating targets.

Research is key.

bcool wrote: »

Hi


I have done the start your own business course. (Enterprise Ireland).It us helpful but not the answer to your dreams. There is a very good mentoring programme in place , but at the end of the day its down to You.

One thing that i learned from the course is they said about working and trying to start a business is extremely difficult. And in your case ,if you wanted to try both i think it would be even more difficult as you would be starting a new job , which will take time to settle into as well as trying to get a business off the ground.

At the end of the day, EI and other such bodies can ONLY give advice- none of them have really started their own business. Any sccessful business is built on its people and initially, the only person is you so you have to put in the hardwork. Sadly, hardwork does not always imply profits so research ALOT and if it works, then go for it.

Yes, you are young, have no dependants etc and ca afford a risk but that doesn't mean you shouldn't weigh it. I would advise against throwing all caution to the wind and jumping in anyway.

And yes, you will be broke for the next while, have NO life, but you wouldn't give a hoot cos you are doing something you enjoy!

Best of luck!!

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

To me it sounds like you've already made your mind up, it's one of those moments in life where you need to either make it happen or remember this moment as being the time when you could have had it all and decided not to give it a go.

There will be other opportunities to get a job but if you let the business die now it will be a massive regret that stays with you.

Trojan

Don't take the job, you'll make peanuts.

But as the others say, go for it. There's always a job out there, but you're in a good position of freedom, and ifwhen you make mistakes consider them a learning experience.

Try to have the less expensive type of learning experiences

DublinWriter

The best career advise I ever got was from the last manager I worked for as an employee...."you'll never get rich working for somebody else".

Red Sheds

No mortgage, no kids, then follow your passion, forget the rest. If you dont you will regret what might have been.

I was in a similar situation 9 years ago, had a mortgage but no kids, left a well paying job to follow something I wanted to do, hadent really a business plan either, just a gut that it would work and happily it did. I have 3 children now and tell you that if I had to make that decision now, I would have to stay in the job for the security aspect.

Go for it and best of luck, if it dosent work out, you can always get another job, that was my attitude.

fitz265

im no rocket scientest but could you take that full time job and ask a family spouse or a close trustwordy friend to help you set up the buisness on your days off and even after work you could push on with the buisness sure twill be hard work give that 3 to 6 months and if the buisness takes of leave the full time job and if it goes belly up you have your full time job in the morning they say the best time to set up a buisness is in reccession but take that full time job as a rebound best off luck to you

SeanSouth

OK, I think the answer to your question is - "It depends on what you have in mind"

To set up a successful new business in the current climate, you will need

1) Money -
If you dont have money of your own, You need to raise it and plenty of it.
A lot of people seem to think that you can start a business on 5k or 10K.
This is absolute nonsense. You wont succeed. Think a minimum of 100,000
start up capital for any serious venture.

2) To succeed in business, You will need to be taken seriously by your customers. Are you properly set up. Do you have dedicated production or preparation facilities. Do you have proper quality systems in place ?
Are your communications professional. Is your product of top quality and presented well. Do you have capacity to supply ? Its important that the customer can see that you have invested properly in your business.

If you are planning serious investment in a professional business and have the necessary financing available and if you have already conducted serious market research with positive outcome, then I would say GO FOR IT

On the other hand if you plan to start "small" on your own kitchen table
with little or no money with intention to supply the local pub trade and shop, my advice would be to take the job.

zig

Hi everyone, thanks again for the advice.

The decision is still playing on my mind, it was obviously very clear from the start of this thread what decision I want to take and I guess if everyone (in a business forum) said "take the job" then Id probably lean towards it alright.

But it seems most people are saying what I was already thinking.

ifah, I think a point you made has stuck with me ...

Try think of it this way : in the future what is the likelihood of you ever being in a position to start this business again versus what is the likelihood of you finding a job with someone else ?

This is really really true. If nobody is depending on me right now, why put myself under the pressure of opting for something I may not ultimately be happy in, when I can at least take a chance.

SeanSouth, thanks for all the advice, but as you say "It depends on what you have in mind"

What I have in mind is creating a situation where I am working for myself, where Im earning my own full time living. Going by my business plan I dont even begin to start paying myself any bit of a wage until August (even that will be tiny starting out),and I wont even be getting a full time wage from it until 2013. In the mean time Ill be on the Back to Work Enterprise Allowance.

Im never going to be in a situation where I have 100k , or have good access to 100k. At least not until I have proven myself and the product on a smaller scale first.

Just wondering could you elaborate on this if you dont mind...

On the other hand if you plan to start "small" on your own kitchen table
with little or no money with intention to supply the local pub trade and shop, my advice would be to take the job.

I take advice like this seriously and would love to know why you think the job would be a better option given my circumstances (low budget etc)

zig

bcool wrote: »

Hi
The reason i came across your post was, i too am in the process of setting up in business and typed in business plan into search bar,as i need to do one to get going, and here we are.
My situation is similar to yours, Unemployed ( 3 months) been offered work ,(poor money compared to what i was on) and have also a lot of work done an setting up on my own.

Your case is differnt as i believe the job you have been offered seeems to be ok, as you are thinking of taking it up.

I have done the start your own business course. (Enterprise Ireland).It us helpful but not the answer to your dreams. There is a very good mentoring programme in place , but at the end of the day its down to You.

One thing that i learned from the course is they said about working and trying to start a business is extremely difficult. And in your case ,if you wanted to try both i think it would be even more difficult as you would be starting a new job , which will take time to settle into as well as trying to get a business off the ground.

But like the other posts have said it seems you are veering towards the peanuts end of things.

You mentioned the back to work allowance scheme. This i believe is a great incentive in your case. If you have been unemployed for more than a year you keep your benifits for a limited period etc. etc.
You have no mortgage etc. so you are not under severe financial pressure like 700,000 other people (including myself).

I will finish by saying its your choice but this is how i see it
Choice 1
Take the job, save money, build up a good relationship with the bank , buy a house (property rock bottom). Have a happy life in a job that you may or may not like, but at the end of the day it keeps the bills paid and bread on the table.
Choice 2
Go for it. But be prepared for a roller coaster . Next 3 years broke. You will think of nothing else only business . The bank will treat you like dirt.You will not get a mortgage untill business is making alot of money. (5 years i predict if it goes really well for you). You will have alot of doors slammed in your face ( trying to sell your peanuts) etc etc

Best of Luck either way
Ps. In 2006 i took home 85000 a year in job i hated.
I hope to take home 20000 in my first year of business but to be happy at it.
See you on Dragons Den

Great post bcool, personally I regard happiness as a highly important thing so long as its tied in with responsibility, alot of people dont mind good conventional jobs, and thats great, all the better for them. But I always see the same patterns playing out when I go into a company and start working and I guess thats why I want to give this a shot. Ive always wanted to be my own boss. I love working hard, but I hate being a number if you get me. It just always begins to feel like Im handing my life over to someone else.
I know thats a bit of a skewed view on the whole thing (i.e. a job is a job), but I guess its those kind of point of views that drive people to set up business in the first place.

Im not sure why, but even down to something as silly as organising the packaging for the product was exciting me. I guess because it was for me, not for some company I dont really care about.

Im quite lucky regarding the Back to Work Enterprise Scheme in that I spent alot of time spent in FAS doing a traineeship , and all that time counts towards qualification for the scheme.
Anyway, you laid out the choices , and you did a good job of making the second choice incredibly realistic pointing out the negatives, and it STILL looks more appealing to me which is telling.

Best of luck in your business also! I hope it goes well.

ifah

SeanSouth wrote: »

OK, I think the answer to your question is - "It depends on what you have in mind"

To set up a successful new business in the current climate, you will need

1) Money -
If you dont have money of your own, You need to raise it and plenty of it.
A lot of people seem to think that you can start a business on 5k or 10K.
This is absolute nonsense. You wont succeed. Think a minimum of 100,000
start up capital for any serious venture.

This is so wrong and really bad advise.

Loads of businesses are being setup based on ingenuity and people using resources freely available to them. Serious ventures can grow from small or no investments. Knowledge and a will to suceed are huge factors, combined with a sound business idea and you may be on a winner.

I'm almost ready to launch a new business and it has evolved out of an idea I have which is based on my knowledge and experience. Some very recent, highly publicised events have already proven and prepared the marketplace and I'm nearly ready for launch. My actual investment has been time and energy - everything else is free (read free = open source ). I've already provided pro-bono work for a number of clients to test the market and feedback has been positive - some of the pro-bono have even paid me when they saw the value to their business.

Chet Zar

ifah wrote: »

This is so wrong and really bad advise.

Loads of businesses are being setup based on ingenuity and people using resources freely available to them. Serious ventures can grow from small or no investments. Knowledge and a will to suceed are huge factors, combined with a sound business idea and you may be on a winner.

I'm almost ready to launch a new business and it has evolved out of an idea I have which is based on my knowledge and experience. Some very recent, highly publicised events have already proven and prepared the marketplace and I'm nearly ready for launch. My actual investment has been time and energy - everything else is free (read free = open source ). I've already provided pro-bono work for a number of clients to test the market and feedback has been positive - some of the pro-bono have even paid me when they saw the value to their business.

+1 - it's completely outdated advice as so much is free these days (only costs your time) and with everything moving online and only continuing to do so more and more, the cost of setting up is greatly reduced. That's before we even get to the lower cost of materials, rent etc for those who are setting up bricks and mortar businesses!

TheCostumeShop.ie: Ronan

ifah wrote: »

This is so wrong and really bad advise.

Ditto. That is such a common mis perception and the reason why so many people never start a business. Raising 100k or any other amount as an unknown / unproven entity is excessively difficult in this market. Often there are ways to lower the capital needed, the OP has been trading for a while now without needing seed, angel or venture funding.