Basic Economics Lesson for Irish People

boobar

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

The sum total of money I borrowed from banks during the boom = 0
The sum total of money I now owe the banks after the boom = 0

Cheap Credit = Self-Made Slavery.


Deal with it.

and I resent having to pay to bail out the rest of you.

Chill out Enda!

boobar

Highly Salami wrote: »

This is utter nonsense of the highest order. In a cold climate people need to have a roof over their head. If we all slept in ditches, I don't think we would last long in our jobs going to work smelling of rats pee. What if food prices were to increase, should we all starve to save money?

I think you'll find the proper term is a Hedge Dwelling.

stevedublin

micropig wrote: »

rent

you rent.
From me.

stevedublin

bluewolf wrote: »

So rent ffs and stop giving us sob stories about ditches

Rents were also high during the boom. Were renters being irresponsible for renting? Also, whats this about sob stories? I didn't actually live in a ditch, i just used it as a metaphor to show how ridiculous this "putting a roof over your head is irresponsible" attitude is.

Benny_Cake

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

Jet Black wrote: »

The sum total you owe despite not borrowing = 10% of your wages for the rest of your life
The sum total of high horses = 1

Which is why I am leaving this country.

Slurring "you'll never beat the Oirish..." as we are four goals down in a pub this summer is not the panacea I need.

The self-hatred is strong in this one.

micropig

stevedublin wrote: »

Rents were also high during the boom. Were renters being irresponsible for renting? Also, whats this about sob stories? I didn't actually live in a ditch, i just used it as a metaphor to show how ridiculous this "putting a roof over your head is irresponsible" attitude is.

Do you have a hedge fund?:P

Logical Fallacy

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

The sum total of money I borrowed from banks during the boom = 0
The sum total of money I now owe the banks after the boom = 0

Cheap Credit = Self-Made Slavery.


Deal with it.

and I resent having to pay to bail out the rest of you.

Not much of a lesson. Basically you are saying you were sensible, but are now being punished.

It's like giving a kid detention for doing his homework.

Mickey Dazzler

Yes well you better get used to idea because you and all your " i didn't borrow anything" smart friends will be paying through the nose for the rest of your lives. get use to it.

couldntthink

Ghost Buster wrote: »

This could happen to anyone and so we took out the mortgage we did with this in mind. If either of us did lose our job then we dump the over payment and our mortgage is so low we could pay it from the dole. We also have lots of luxuries and non essentials we can dump. Was discussing this with my wife and she reckons as both of us had poorish up-bringings we never had this entitlement attitude and have an aversion to being in debt. The only borrowing our parents ever did was for absolute essentials. Going into debt for a holiday, 4x4, landscaped garden, ensuites etc is utterly alien to us.

We run the gas off the electricity and the electricity off the gas. And we save TWO HUNDRED POUNDS a year.

44leto

What has the boom done for us, in comparison to the rest of Europe higher wages, higher levels of pensions and welfare, we are still a low tax economy, excellent roads, our health to spite perceptions is better, I will admit I don't know or think this can continue, but OP you may not of borrowed but you still benefited.

kincsem

I was poor then, and I'm poor now. I didn't get drawn in by all the hype.

Oh, wait ...

K-9

Doc Ruby wrote: »

The taxes were fine. What is ridiculous is trying to force taxes up to get bubble level revenue.

Yeah, low taxes were fine!

Trying to find a substantial party not wanting to reduce taxes or even raise them was nearly impossible from the 2002 and 2007 election.

Edit: Renting is for peasants, you see this attitude on here and in people I meet. You'd think people would have copped on after a massive property crash, but nope.

krudler

Highly Salami wrote: »

This is utter nonsense of the highest order. In a cold climate people need to have a roof over their head. If we all slept in ditches, I don't think we would last long in our jobs going to work smelling of rats pee. What if food prices were to increase, should we all starve to save money?

there's this mad theory that you can pay other people to live in their houses, "renting" the kids call it.

ascanbe

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

The sum total of money I borrowed from banks during the boom = 0
The sum total of money I now owe the banks after the boom = 0

Cheap Credit = Self-Made Slavery.


Deal with it.

and I resent having to pay to bail out the rest of you.

Basic lesson in economics:

The sum total you borrowed from the banks during the boom = 0

The sum total that you and future generations in this country will be paying-off, in the various ways our government/s see fit in order to extact this money from Irish people who had nothing to do with this debt, taxes etc, leaving this country economically moribund, at best, for the foreseeable future, in order to pay off the bad debts that should've been incurred by the foreign banks/bondholders who lent money to PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS in our state in order to make a profit = astronomically huge, growing all the time and, as of this moment, yet to be determined.

Seems to me you don't know what the f*ck you're on about; but thanks for the lesson.

ascanbe

Ghost Buster wrote: »

I took out a mortgage in 2001. We took out the bare min' to build our house to a liveable standard i.e concrete floors, heating, plumbing and furniture from the Super Value stamps thingy system!
We were offered decorating money. We declined and did it ourselves including hanging doors, skirting boards, laying floors and tiling all of which i had to learn how to do.
We were offered money to furnish the house. We declined and made do with Super Value furniture and second hand stuff we had gathered over a few years.

We were offered money for landscaping and gardening. We declined and did it ourselves.
We did not install a fitted kitchen until our SSIA came through despite being offered money for 'additional and unforeseen extras"
It took us until last year to finish our house fully and even indulged in a suite of furniture not supported by planks:D
WE are not badly off now and were not then but call it a sixth sense or intuition. Call us boring, call us sensible. Im not bothered:rolleyes:
We are now paying off the premium of our mortgage, are able to over pay by €100 per month and should have it paid off by 2018.

Ummmmmmm. Im not sure how to end this post.... Hows about IM SMUG :P:P:P;):D:o:cool:

You shouldn't be smug.
Your house is in a country/you live in a country on the brink of social and economic meltdown due to our previous government, literally, selling us out and our current government not having the vision, will or guts to do anything about it.
Hope you enjoy your house up until 2018; that's if you can maintain your payments on the mortgage up to that point.
Ya 'see, unless your revenue stream is cocooned from any of the possible fallout from the economic destruction of our country taking place, and if it is good-luck to you, you might be facing a different reality pretty soon.
This is why you should care about what's going on with other people, and why you shouldn't be 'smug'.

stevedublin

krudler wrote: »

there's this mad theory that you can pay other people to live in their houses, "renting" the kids call it.

YOU rent if you want to. Its not for me. People have died for freedom in this and other Western countries. If you want to live in a country where people are not allowed purchase their own property, then go to somewhere like North Korea and leave the rest of us alone!

buck65

buck65 wrote: »

Some of us borrowed and paid and are paying our debts. It wasn't my fault I had to pay over the odds to buy a home.

stevedublin wrote: »

YOU rent if you want to. Its not for me. People have died for freedom in this and other Western countries. If you want to live in a country where people are not allowed purchase their own property, then go to somewhere like North Korea and leave the rest of us alone!

first it's "not my fault i had to buy a home" and now it's "i have to buy a home because NORTH KOREA"

jesus :rolleyes:

stevedublin

bluewolf wrote: »

first it's "not my fault i had to buy a home" and now it's "i have to buy a home because NORTH KOREA"

jesus :rolleyes:

No one said you HAVE to buy a home, its a CHOICE!
You can rent if you WANT to!!!
btw do you rent/own/live with parents/sleep on a park bench ?
....I suspect that many of those who expect everyone else to rent, don't actually rent themselves.....

take everything

bluewolf wrote: »

buck65 wrote: »

Some of us borrowed and paid and are paying our debts. It wasn't my fault I had to pay over the odds to buy a home.

stevedublin wrote: »

YOU rent if you want to. Its not for me. People have died for freedom in this and other Western countries. If you want to live in a country where people are not allowed purchase their own property, then go to somewhere like North Korea and leave the rest of us alone!

first it's "not my fault i had to buy a home" and now it's "i have to buy a home because NORTH KOREA"

jesus :rolleyes:

Incredible sense of entitlement.

stevedublin

stevedublin wrote: »

No one said you HAVE to buy a home, its a CHOICE! .

you mean like the guy i quoted right above you who said just that?

token101

buck65 wrote: »

Some of us borrowed and paid and are paying our debts. It wasn't my fault I had to pay over the odds to buy a home.

Isn't it? Whose fault is it then? Were they holding a gun to your head? Why couldn't you rent?

stevedublin

People seem to forget that rents were also high (and still are).
I am still trying to figure out whether those on here who think renting is fantastic practice what they preach and actually rent themselves.
And what if the price of food or clothes were to get very high?
Are we all supposed to rent those too?

stevedublin

stevedublin wrote: »

People seem to forget that rents were also high (and still are).
I am still trying to figure out whether those on here who think renting is fantastic practice what they preach and actually rent themselves.
And what if the price of food or clothes were to get very high?
Are we all supposed to rent those too?

the pointis that someone said he had to buy
he did not have to buy because he could rent
you can do whatever the fcuk you like, but don't come whingeing about how you HAD to do one or the other, otherwise it's ditches in north korea or whatever

coolbeans

stevedublin wrote: »

krudler wrote: »

there's this mad theory that you can pay other people to live in their houses, "renting" the kids call it.

YOU rent if you want to. Its not for me. People have died for freedom in this and other Western countries. If you want to live in a country where people are not allowed purchase their own property, then go to somewhere like North Korea and leave the rest of us alone!

Stop trotting out this jingoistic drivel as an excuse for people spending money they don't have and then landing the country in a whole heap of debt. I have no bother with people buying but only if they do so employing a mortgage that is in some way reasonable. Huge numbers of people did not do this, they borrowed irresponsibly essentially and now many, such as you are developing this frankly pathetic persecution complex seeking to blame anyone but themselves. And what's with the comparison to NK? Is that the best you can do? We can't move on if we don't recognise our own recent failings. And yes, I rent.

old_aussie

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

Which is why I am leaving this country.

Where shall you be going?

stevedublin

bluewolf wrote: »

you can do whatever the fcuk you like, but don't come whingeing about how you HAD to do one or the other, otherwise it's ditches in north korea or whatever

People have to sleep somewhere, a ditch is not a reasonable choice for most people, so yes its either buy or rent, I don't understand why this is considered "whingeing" all of a sudden.

stevedublin

stevedublin wrote: »

People have to sleep somewhere, a ditch is not a reasonable choice for most people, so yes its either buy or rent, I don't understand why this is considered "whingeing" all of a sudden.

yes it is buy or rent. not buy and "its not my fault i had to buy"

juan.kerr

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

The sum total of money I borrowed from banks during the boom = 0
The sum total of money I now owe the banks after the boom = 0

Cheap Credit = Self-Made Slavery.


Deal with it.

and I resent having to pay to bail out the rest of you.

Get off your high horse.

Some of us borrowed and are meeting all our personal commitments.

stevedublin

People who rent are irresponsible, profligate and have an enormous sense of entitlement. No one put a gun to their head and FORCES them to rent. They can always sleep on the streets!

ronan45

Basic Economics Lesson for Irish People # 2

Buy apartment during boom, use equity each year to buy a second third and fourth apartment.
Proceed to rent apartments 2-4 to the government for social housing.

Then moan that you have loads of property and are in negative equity at this stage proceed to do deal with bank and have debts written off and paid for by Joe Public.

LMFAO:D

juan.kerr

stevedublin wrote: »

People who rent are irresponsible, profligate and have an enormous sense of entitlement. No one put a gun to their head and FORCES them to rent. They can always sleep on the streets!

People who sleep on........blame........

coolbeans

stevedublin wrote: »

People who rent are irresponsible, profligate and have an enormous sense of entitlement. No one put a gun to their head and FORCES them to rent. They can always sleep on the streets!

All of this is way over your head isn't it? The problem many have is that so many home "owners" were financially irresponsible and borrowed from equally irresponsible lenders. Now that times are tough they can't pay their their debts. You can't say that about those who had the sense to recognise that this is madness and therefore wanted no part in the charade. I, for one, want people to pay their way and stop whining about their self imposed life sentences.

coolbeans

old_aussie wrote: »

OurLadyofKnock wrote: »

Which is why I am leaving this country.

Where shall you be going?

Lourdes.

stevedublin

juan.kerr wrote: »

People who sleep on........blame........

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Fair play to coolbeans for stating whether renting/owning/living with parents forever.
If only bluewolf were so forthcoming!

juan.kerr

stevedublin wrote: »

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Fair play to coolbeans for stating whether renting/owning/living with parents forever.
If only bluewolf were so forthcoming!

Neither - I thought you were taking the piss out of the OPs post / opinions. Sorry.

stevedublin

juan.kerr wrote: »

Neither - I thought you were taking the piss out of the OPs post / opinions. Sorry.

The whole housing boom and bust is a farce imho.

nacimroc

Joe Public is paying off your over spending! FACT, no high horse ****. Money is being taken out of our pockets to pay off your debt!

Drives me mad that people have a problem with us being annoyed about the whole ****storm the greedy created that we are now paying for. So we should sit quietly whilst being prudent with our money during the boom, and sit quietly whilst we have to pay for others greed after! Bull****! I'll kick up as much as I like until you pay your own debts! You overspent! You overborrowed! You bought something you couldn't afford!

Logical Fallacy

nacimroc wrote: »

Joe Public is paying off your over spending! FACT, no high horse ****. Money is being taken out of our pockets to pay off your debt!

Drives me mad that people have a problem with us being annoyed about the whole ****storm the greedy created that we are now paying for. So we should sit quietly whilst being prudent with our money during the boom, and sit quietly whilst we have to pay for others greed after! Bull****! I'll kick up as much as I like until you pay your own debts! You overspent! You overborrowed! You bought something you couldn't afford!

Out of interest who are you talking to?

Because from here it just looks like a little aimless temper tantrum designed to make you feel better.

I'd suggest you turn around to people you actually know in real life who overborrowed and chat to them.

Nyan Cat

I rent. Ireland is also one of the few countries - in Europe - where owning your own home outweighs renting.
I agree with 'stop whigning over debt' if you got in debt to own a home it's a choice you made. The lenders were irrisponsible to lend so freely but so were the people who got loans they couldn't afford. This is not directed at all people who got loans.

It's hard to have sympathy

coolbeans

stevedublin wrote: »

juan.kerr wrote: »

People who sleep on........blame........

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Fair play to coolbeans for stating whether renting/owning/living with parents forever.
If only bluewolf were so forthcoming!

Don't misquote me. I suppose though when you haven't got the capacity to make a cogent argument in support of your stance there's not much left in tbe arsenal but to misquote. I rent now. I will buy when the time is right and that time is almost nigh. I will be paying my way though.

token101

stevedublin wrote: »

People who rent are irresponsible, profligate and have an enormous sense of entitlement. No one put a gun to their head and FORCES them to rent. They can always sleep on the streets!

WTF are you on about?

You said you were forced to buy a house. You weren't, you could have rented. You chose to buy, that's grand. But if you, or anyone else, can't pay it's no one's responsibility to bail you out.

stevedublin wrote: »

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

Fair play to coolbeans for stating whether renting/owning/living with parents forever.
If only bluewolf were so forthcoming!

I'd happily rent/ live with mammy and daddy having the comfort knowing that when people can't afford their house anymore that I'll come in and buy it from the bank for a lot less money than they paid.

stevedublin

old_aussie wrote: »

Where shall you be going?

North Korea?

stevedublin

coolbeans wrote: »

Don't misquote me. I suppose though when you haven't got the capacity to make a cogent argument in support of your stance there's not much left in tbe arsenal but to misquote. I rent now. I will buy when the time is right and that time is almost nigh. I will be paying my way though.

I didn't intend to give the impression that juan.kerr's post was your quote. You said in a previous post that you rent, i didn't think I needed to put it a quote it. My point is that if people who bought houses during the boom are supposed to be responsible for high house prices at that time, similarly people who rented during the boom would also be responsible for high rents at that time. So I don't see why people who rent can take the high ground.

coolbeans

stevedublin wrote: »

coolbeans wrote: »

Don't misquote me. I suppose though when you haven't got the capacity to make a cogent argument in support of your stance there's not much left in tbe arsenal but to misquote. I rent now. I will buy when the time is right and that time is almost nigh. I will be paying my way though.

I didn't intend to give the impression that juan.kerr's post was your quote. You said in a previous post that you rent, i didn't think I needed to put it a quote it. My point is that if people who bought houses during the boom are supposed to be responsible for high house prices at that time, similarly people who rented during the boom would also be responsible for high rents at that time. So I don't see why people who rent can take the high ground.

I read your last post hastily. I apologise.and withdraw those remarks. You did not misquote me.

The Waltzing Consumer

stevedublin wrote: »

I didn't intend to give the impression that juan.kerr's post was your quote. You said in a previous post that you rent, i didn't think I needed to put it a quote it. My point is that if people who bought houses during the boom are supposed to be responsible for high house prices at that time, similarly people who rented during the boom would also be responsible for high rents at that time. So I don't see why people who rent can take the high ground.

I don't read or hear much about renters who borrowed huge sums of money to rent houses they could not afford or to rent out multiple properties.

I do read, hear and see the many thousands and thousands of people who borrowed huge sums to buy multiple properties thinking they would make a profit by renting them out or thinking the price would go up.

So yes, people who rent can take the high ground in this argument

Scanlas The 2nd

stevedublin wrote: »

coolbeans wrote: »

Don't misquote me. I suppose though when you haven't got the capacity to make a cogent argument in support of your stance there's not much left in tbe arsenal but to misquote. I rent now. I will buy when the time is right and that time is almost nigh. I will be paying my way though.

I didn't intend to give the impression that juan.kerr's post was your quote. You said in a previous post that you rent, i didn't think I needed to put it a quote it. My point is that if people who bought houses during the boom are supposed to be responsible for high house prices at that time, similarly people who rented during the boom would also be responsible for high rents at that time. So I don't see why people who rent can take the high ground.

Renters pay they're rent or get kicked out. No one forced anyone to take out huge mortgages on overpriced houses. Lemming behaviour is no one else's responsibility. If you borrow 500k you have to pay it back with interest . The price of a house is a much as someone is willing to pay for it. So there was never any guarantee that you could sell your house for as much as you bought it. Some people just don't get these very basic facts.

AudreyHepburn

buck65 wrote: »

Some of us borrowed and paid and are paying our debts. It wasn't my fault I had to pay over the odds to buy a home.

And here is the reason we are in the position we are in. You did not have to buy an expensive home, you had a choice.

Honestly we will never get out of this mess if people across the board don't start owning up to their mistakes.

We are far to quick to scapegoat in this country and it needs to stop.

micropig

i have sympathy for genuine people who worked out their budget and bought a house they could afford and bought within that range.

i don't have asympathy for those who borrowed more than they ever had a chance of paying back, borrowing more to furnish it, tv on higher purchase, new cars and the necessary 4x4, designer handbag designer clothes and holidays they couldn't afford.

maybe they thought they could afford it because their house would increase in value, but this makes no sense. your equity is tied up in the house, you'd still need somewhere to live and other houses would have a high price tag

buying a house is one thing but was it necessary to decorate & furnish it on credit?

The Waltzing Consumer

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

And here is the reason we are in the position we are in. You did not have to buy an expensive home, you had a choice.

Honestly we will never get out of this mess if people across the board don't start owning up to their mistakes.

We are far to quick to scapegoat in this country and it needs to stop.

It would help if the people who feign ignorance during the many years of "boom time" and did not have any clue about finanace works would stop acting like they are now professors of economics.

It is simply baffling the amount of posters who's biggest contribution has literally been "blast it with piss" are now masters of economics and comfortably talk about macro and micro economic policy

AudreyHepburn

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

It would help if the people who feign ignorance during the many years of "boom time" and did not have any clue about finanace works would stop acting like they are now professors of economics.

It is simply baffling the amount of posters who's biggest contribution has literally been "blast it with piss" are now masters of economics and comfortably talk about macro and micro economic policy

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with me, or making a comment about the kind of person you think I am......

I never once feigned any kind of ignorance and I am not holding myself up as a doyen of economics now.