Apples chinese work policy

cloptrop

How come all these do gooder tree huggers still get apple stuff, even though they sub out their work to unscrupuous employers that make all their staff kill themselves.
Is the Ipad really that awesome.
Whats the difference between apple and all the other smartphones?
Slave labour.

Do you have an apple product and just not care about the chinese fella working 24 hour shifts with no chair etc etc , or do you feel bad for him but apple products are just so awesome your willing to overlook that little fact.
Does owning apple stuff now make you a heartless tosser?

Mr Benevolent

Lots of other companies use Foxconn as well.

Notable products which the company manufactures include the Amazon Kindle, iPad, iPhone, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360 and Wii.

Auvers

cloptrop wrote: »

Does owning apple stuff now make you a heartless tosser?

nope it just makes you a slave to slick marketing, double the price for half the spec

cloptrop

Confab wrote: »

Lots of other companies use Foxconn as well.

If loads of other companies jumped off a bridge should apple too.

danniemcq

hah there is an ad for the iphone at the bottom of my page!

also foxconn had to put up nets under some of the buildings as people were jumping off them so often.

lovely place to work!

danniemcq

cloptrop wrote: »

If loads of other companies jumped off a bridge should apple too.

Apple could be the first and jump off, everyone would follow but only apple would float...

Duggy747

List of customers of Foxconn (From Wiki, anyways)

Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
Amazon.com (United States)[27]
Apple Inc. (United States)[28]
ASRock (Taiwan)
Asus (Taiwan)
Barnes & Noble (United States)
Cisco (United States)
Dell (United States)
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Hewlett-Packard (United States)[29]
Intel (United States)
IBM (United States)
Lenovo (China)
Logitech (Switzerland)
Microsoft (United States)
MSI (Taiwan)
Motorola (United States)
Netgear (United States)
Nintendo (Japan)
Nokia (Finland)[28]
Panasonic (Japan)
Philips (Netherlands)
Samsung (South Korea)[30]
Sharp (Japan)
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)[31]
Toshiba (Japan)
Vizio (United States)

Pretty much most techy items in your house have been put together by an Asian.

biko

cloptrop wrote: »

How come all these do gooder tree huggers still get apple stuff, even though they sub out their work to unscrupuous employers that make all their staff kill themselves.
Is the Ipad really that awesome.
Whats the difference between apple and all the other smartphones?
Slave labour.

Do you have an apple product and just not care about the chinese fella working 24 hour shifts with no chair etc etc , or do you feel bad for him but apple products are just so awesome your willing to overlook that little fact.
Does owning apple stuff now make you a heartless tosser?

Where is your own phone made? Is it a smart phone? If so it's probably made in China too.

Ghandee

cloptrop wrote: »

How come all these do gooder tree huggers still get apple stuff, even though they sub out their work to unscrupuous employers that make all their staff kill themselves.
Is the Ipad really that awesome.
Whats the difference between apple and all the other smartphones?
Slave labour.

Do you have an apple product and just not care about the chinese fella working 24 hour shifts with no chair etc etc , or do you feel bad for him but apple products are just so awesome your willing to overlook that little fact.
Does owning apple stuff now make you a heartless tosser?

Nope.


Just makes you a tosser for shelling out too much money for a product which is, in many ways inferior to much cheaper, and more technologically superior products on the market.


(paging all iPhone users) :pac:

mikemac1

Why do Apple get singled out for using Foxconn but never Samsung, Dell, HP and others?

Edit, better posts then mine above with lists

cloptrop

OSI wrote: »

Suicide levels within Foxconn are on par with most regions in China. People in China are queuing up around the clock to work for Foxconn.

Probably just because they make Ipads. This doesnt make apples involvement in China justified. Id rather pay an extra 100 euro for an ipad tht was made in Ireland.

danniemcq wrote: »

Apple could be the first and jump off, everyone would follow but only apple would float...

Yeah your probably right , all that stuff about how Steve Jobs was a saint in the media when he died, maybe god gave him the cancer cause he was a ****head.

minidazzler

I buy apple products BECAUSE they use slave labour.

danniemcq

OSI wrote: »

Suicide levels within Foxconn are on par with most regions in China. People in China are queuing up around the clock to work for Foxconn.

rural suicide rate and suicide of older people often skew the averages

with a million people working there and 17 suicides it may not seem like very high but when the fact that these are young people working and that Foxconn have taken steps to stop people jumping off buildings there is an issue

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/02/ff_joelinchina/all/1

wired magazine done a very good piece on the story in the above link.

TheZohanS

cloptrop wrote: »

How come all these do gooder tree huggers still get apple stuff, even though they sub out their work to unscrupuous employers that make all their staff kill themselves.
Is the Ipad really that awesome.
Whats the difference between apple and all the other smartphones?
Slave labour.

Do you have an apple product and just not care about the chinese fella working 24 hour shifts with no chair etc etc , or do you feel bad for him but apple products are just so awesome your willing to overlook that little fact.
Does owning apple stuff now make you a heartless tosser?

If you don't have an iPhone, you don't have an iPhone.

You jelly?

Gurgle

OSI wrote: »

Oh this crap again. Look 99% of consumer goods are made by slave labour in China. Get over it. If they were all made by unionised workers with wages similar to those of Ireland and the US, you'd be paying double or triple the price for almost everything.

Great story, not true.
The saving is between 10% and 20%, and its not on labour.

Labour costs are a small percentage of mass produced electronics.
Parts & materials, tooling, machine depreciation, energy all cost pretty much the same no matter where you are.

Then take thousands of extra miles transportation off the savings on labour.

The big savings are in the fact that you can dump a million tonnes of toxic sludge in the nearest lake, don't have to bother with all this western-world health, safety and environment stuff.

TheZohan

TheZohan wrote: »

cloptrop wrote: »

How come all these do gooder tree huggers still get apple stuff, even though they sub out their work to unscrupuous employers that make all their staff kill themselves.
Is the Ipad really that awesome.
Whats the difference between apple and all the other smartphones?
Slave labour.

Do you have an apple product and just not care about the chinese fella working 24 hour shifts with no chair etc etc , or do you feel bad for him but apple products are just so awesome your willing to overlook that little fact.
Does owning apple stuff now make you a heartless tosser?

If you don't have an iPhone, you don't have an iPhone.

You jelly?

If you don't have an iPhone, you have an Android and feel so much better.

danniemcq

OSI wrote: »

Wait, 17 suicides in a population of 1 million? Ireland has a rate of 19 per 100,000! Who's the real slave driver :eek:

yeah but how many of these people commit suicide at work?

i know that people live in the compound (probably not the best word but i'm having a brain fart day)

I know the number is quite low when you look directly at the numbers and it could be a lot LOT worse but its still shocking.

sadly though i can't see it changing anytime soon as as long as joe public (myslef included) don't directly see the suffering when we buy whatever product we don't think.

However: if i was given the option of either buying a product from foxconn or the exact same from an irish factory for an extra couple quid i'd like to think i'd go irish as i'd feel the quality of work would be better.

They talk about a similer situation in that above wired link but use the US instead.

Yahew

I think that people see "dorms" and think slaves. Western workers work in dorms occasionally, i.e. oil workers. Soldiers live in dorms too of course. If you get paid and you get to leave you are not a slave.

A dorm is free accomodation, to boot. And I think the food is free. This is significant for people on low wages.

So, is the wage bad by Chinese standards? The NYT times report - from which the OP is getting his half understood positions - says that people work 6 days for $17 per day. $17 dollars sounds bad, it is 17 times the poorest people in the Earth earn, and about 17 times what the poorest Chinese earn.

The other way of putting it would be - the entry level salary is $5100 ( assuming 2 weeks off).

$5100 is a different story. By world standards thats middle income. There are few outgoings during the year or so in the Dorm so people save most of that, just as oil workers, or workers in Dubai ( kept in compounds) save most of their money too. So in term of disposable income after food and housing it is not bad by world standards, and better than low paid workers in the West in many cases.

And people can presumably work up the chain - the NYt report also talked about a project manager on $15K, which they pointed out was more than an American engineer laid off in Apple's Sacremento plant and now working in a call centre.
Not that they are Apple plants anyway.

AeoNGriM

cloptrop wrote: »

How come all these do gooder tree huggers still get apple stuff, even though they sub out their work to unscrupuous employers that make all their staff kill themselves.
Is the Ipad really that awesome.
Whats the difference between apple and all the other smartphones?
Slave labour.

Do you have an apple product and just not care about the chinese fella working 24 hour shifts with no chair etc etc , or do you feel bad for him but apple products are just so awesome your willing to overlook that little fact.
Does owning apple stuff now make you a heartless tosser?

It has to be said that, in my experience, the majority of (but definitely not all) people who buy Apple products are vaccuous morons who buy whatever the most popular or trendy brand of product is.

*OMGOMG new iPhone is out, OMGOMG, must queue overnight outside the phone shop. I LITERALLY have to be one of the first to have it. LITERALLY.

(*actually witnessed on Grafton Street when the 4S came out)

blackwhite

Deleted User wrote: »

If you don't have an iPhone, you have an Android and feel so much better.

Or else you have a work-issued Blackberry, and die a little every time you use it!

cloptrop

What happens when these people wanna have a bit of privacy with a lady friend?
Do you try get the other 6 lads out of the dorm or do you just have to let them all in on her?
The first rule about dorm Bukakke is you dont talk about dorm Bukakke.

Yahew

AeoNGriM wrote: »

It has to be said that, in my experience, the majority of (but definitely not all) people who buy Apple products are vaccuous morons who buy whatever the most popular or trendy brand of product is.

*OMGOMG new iPhone is out, OMGOMG, must queue overnight outside the phone shop. I LITERALLY have to be one of the first to have it. LITERALLY.

(*actually witnessed on Grafton Street when the 4S came out)

Yawn.

Liam Byrne

Ghandee wrote: »

cloptrop wrote: »

How come all these do gooder tree huggers still get apple stuff, even though they sub out their work to unscrupuous employers that make all their staff kill themselves.
Is the Ipad really that awesome.
Whats the difference between apple and all the other smartphones?
Slave labour.

Do you have an apple product and just not care about the chinese fella working 24 hour shifts with no chair etc etc , or do you feel bad for him but apple products are just so awesome your willing to overlook that little fact.
Does owning apple stuff now make you a heartless tosser?

Nope.


Just makes you a tosser for shelling out too much money for a product which is, in many ways inferior to much cheaper, and more technologically superior products on the market.


(paging all iPhone users) :pac:

Got mine free :pac: Where does that leave your argument ?

biko

Interesting that this is brought up now so close after the Chinese New Year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-alVAw_0U0

cloptrop

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Got mine free :pac: Where does that leave your argument ?

The worker prob didnt get paid for makin the phone for mr Liam

Yahew

cloptrop wrote: »

The worker prob didnt get paid for makin the phone for mr Liam

Yeah, he did. Now why are you posting about Apple and not the other electronics in your house, created by companies with less diligence about their employee conditions than Apple?

danniemcq

its often found that the suicide rate in happy wealthy "first world" countries is higher than those where the minimum wage is next to zero and living conditions are terrible (kinda depressing when you think about it)

again i'm not saying that the number is crazy high compared to number of employees but you have to think why its happening and if it wasn't that big a deal why go to such effort to put up nets etc.

cloptrop

Yahew wrote: »

Yeah, he did. Now why are you posting about Apple and not the other electronics in your house, created by companies with less diligence about their employee conditions than Apple?

Thats a post from a man with a sore bum from sleeping out all night for an ipad

Crazy Horse 6

OSI wrote: »

Oh this crap again. Look 99% of consumer goods are made by slave labour in China. Get over it. If they were all made by unionised workers with wages similar to those of Ireland and the US, you'd be paying double or triple the price for almost everything.

But seeing as you did bring up Apple, Apple actually has in place policies that make their workers some of the better paid and treated in China.

Kindle, Apple, PSP, PS 3, Xbox,Nokia, Samsung, Wii, IBM, Intel, MS all made at Foxconn.

I'd gladly pay more if the workers rights where protected.

Auvers

how long until the thread get derailed by fanboys with the iPhone\Android bullsh1t?

danniemcq

OSI wrote: »

And nobody does this for the latest, XBox, Playstation, Nintendo whatever, the latest game etc?

oh yes i've seen people queue for hours after xbox said they were releasing the exact same xbox 360 but with a bigger hardrive.

every company and product will have its fanboys who will go vrazy and queue for hours but apple seem to be able to manage it with f*ck all.

was the minor change to the iphone 4 to iphone 4s (siri) really worst the panic and chaos around it? especially seeing as it worked on older versions till apple stopped it saying other versions weren't powerful enough but people have hacked it to make it work)

they either have the smartest ad/PR guys in the world or the dumbest repeat customers in the world

Yahew

cloptrop wrote: »

Thats a post from a man with a sore bum from sleeping out all night for an ipad

:rolleyes: This is a man without an argument. I dont have an iPad, or an iPhone ( for now).

Time to end this thread. OP is a troll.

danniemcq

Auvers wrote: »

how long until the thread get derailed by fanboys with the iPhone\Android bullsh1t?

i'm thinking in and around now and i'm probably not helping either sorry

Back on Topic .... Ah i got nothing

Yahew

danniemcq wrote: »

oh yes i've seen people queue for hours after xbox said they were releasing the exact same xbox 360 but with a bigger hardrive.

every company and product will have its fanboys who will go vrazy and queue for hours but apple seem to be able to manage it with f*ck all.

was the minor change to the iphone 4 to iphone 4s (siri) really worst the panic and chaos around it? especially seeing as it worked on older versions till apple stopped it saying other versions weren't powerful enough but people have hacked it to make it work)

they either have the smartest ad/PR guys in the world or the dumbest repeat customers in the world

The new phone had twice the processor speed. It wasnt Siri. ( siri is software, the phone is hardware). When the xBox 720 comes out next year with less difference than the iPhone 4-4S upgrade the nerds will be really out in force.

I can also link to pictures of people queing to get sony playstations and Windows 97. People queue to get stuff. One of the reasons to do it in China, is to make money on the secondary market. Only a tiny percentage of people queue of all the buyers of the product.

As expected this thread is an Apple bashing thread. I am up for that.

Yahew

OSI wrote: »

Almost everyone I know that got the 4S, upgraded from a 3G or 3GS.

Thats true too.

cloptrop

Yahew wrote: »

:rolleyes: This is a man without an argument. I dont have an iPad, or an iPhone ( for now).

Time to end this thread. OP is a troll.

If you dont like the thread there is an unsubscribe button

No need to start hurling abuse.

Wibbs

mikemac1 wrote: »

Why do Apple get singled out for using Foxconn but never Samsung, Dell, HP and others?

For the same reason that some out there absolutely hate apple software and hardware until someone else copies/rips them off/is concurrently inspired, then what the other companies do is brilliant. It was ever so. Hell I'm old enough to remember some commentators calling the Apple GUI OS a kids OS and that DOS was sooo much better, designed for "real work". I guarantee they're all using GUI's today(with some getting hardons from fiddling with the command line in Linux to take up the slack). Same with touchscreen phones and online app stores. Apple does it = Baaaad, anyone else does the same thing, even if it's twitchy = Brilliant.

cloptrop

OSI wrote: »

OP, you still haven't stated whether or not you have any products used by many of the other companies that avail of the services of Foxconn. Do you not feel they should be questioned to? Why single out Apple (who as has already been said, is the only company that has gone out of it's way to improve the standards of Foxconn employees that build it's products, which is far from it's responsibility).

I have a nokia phone , i wasnt aware they used foxconn , i will try to get a more fair trade phone te next one I get. These people do however know apple use these practices and yet still buy their stuff.

minidazzler

cloptrop wrote: »

OSI wrote: »

OP, you still haven't stated whether or not you have any products used by many of the other companies that avail of the services of Foxconn. Do you not feel they should be questioned to? Why single out Apple (who as has already been said, is the only company that has gone out of it's way to improve the standards of Foxconn employees that build it's products, which is far from it's responsibility).

I have a nokia phone , i wasnt aware they used foxconn , i will try to get a more fair trade phone te next one I get. These people do however know apple use these practices and yet still buy their stuff.

How is it not fair trade? They get paid a fair amount compared to the economy they live in. And room and board. They may not have the luxuries we have but we are overly babied.

krudler

ah the apple v everything else argument, I changed to a macbook last year and doubt I'll ever go back to windows, my last laptop had so many issues, chrome has crashed on my macbook once on me, starts up in an instant, shuts down in about 3 seconds, everything just...works.

Auvers

Wibbs wrote: »

For the same reason that some out there absolutely hate apple software and hardware until someone else copies/rips them off/is concurrently inspired,.

come on Apple aren't that innocent starting with the Xerox PARC

and as for Jobs being this great "inventor" what a load of BS, a great PR\Marketing man but inventor I don't think so

Mr Benevolent

Wibbs wrote: »

For the same reason that some out there absolutely hate apple software and hardware until someone else copies/rips them off/is concurrently inspired, then what the other companies do is brilliant. It was ever so. Hell I'm old enough to remember some commentators calling the Apple GUI OS a kids OS

Apple have ripped off designs and interfaces everywhere. They're far from innocent. Personally I used to hate them until I saw the screen resolution firsthand. Amazing stuff.

Auvers

Confab wrote: »

Apple have ripped off designs and interfaces everywhere. They're far from innocent. Personally I used to hate them until I saw the screen resolution firsthand. Amazing stuff.

LCD screens manufactured by LG\Philips\Samsung which you can buy in another case for half the money

Mr Benevolent

Auvers wrote: »

LCD screens manufactured by LG\Philips\Samsung which you can buy in another case for half the money

I don't have an iPhone, can't be arsed spending the money.

Gophur

cloptrop wrote: »

How come all these do gooder tree huggers still get apple stuff, even though they sub out their work to unscrupuous employers that make all their staff kill themselves.
Is the Ipad really that awesome.
Whats the difference between apple and all the other smartphones?
Slave labour.

Do you have an apple product and just not care about the chinese fella working 24 hour shifts with no chair etc etc , or do you feel bad for him but apple products are just so awesome your willing to overlook that little fact.
Does owning apple stuff now make you a heartless tosser?

Absolute hogwash.:D

Auvers

Confab wrote: »

I don't have an iPhone, can't be arsed spending the money.

me or you?

If your asking me

I had a iPhone 1/3gs/4

but I have moved to Samsung Galaxy s2 as its simply a better spec cheaper phone, I don't go for fanboy items, just the best bang for your buck at the time

mikemac1

OSI wrote: »

The NY Times did a great piece on why the likes of the iPhone are made in China as opposed to the US..

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=all

Very interesting article
That was a great read

Gophur

Auvers wrote: »

.............
but I have moved to Samsung Galaxy s2 as its simply a better spec cheaper phone, I don't go for fanboy items, just the best bang for your buck at the time

Ah, the Galaxy, the phone that's a copy of the iPhone.

Are you satisfied SAMSUNG are a more ethical company than APPLE?

If only you knew?

Auvers

Gophur wrote: »

Ah, the Galaxy, the phone that's a copy of the iPhone.

Are you satisfied SAMSUNG are a more ethical company than APPLE?

If only you knew?

Knew what Obi-Wan

where did I say I gave a sh1t about Apples ethics nor do I give a flying sh1t about product copying

I just care about value for money and face it Samsung and the Android OS is kicking the arse off Apple at the moment

Wibbs

Auvers wrote: »

come on Apple aren't that innocent starting with the Xerox PARC

You do realise they weren't the only ones who walked through the PARC facility and that they paid licences to use some of the PARC stuff. Secondly, try using the Xerox GUI. Very different to the first MacOS. They most definitely improved on what Xerox had done.

and as for Jobs being this great "inventor" what a load of BS, a great PR\Marketing man but inventor I don't think so

Oh I'd agree. Not an inventor, I would say a very innovative man who often spotted trends way before others and often started them and knew how to mix technologies in interesting and novel ways. They were certainly better at doing that as a company than the majority of the other main manufacturers out there. A brand new PC laptop, looks much more like a 10 year old Apple laptop than the other way around. Even something as simple a design as the palmrests on laptops was an Apple innovation.

Auvers

Wibbs wrote: »

You do realise they weren't the only ones who walked through the PARC facility and that they paid licences to use some of the PARC stuff. Secondly, try using the Xerox GUI. Very different to the first MacOS. They most definitely improved on what Xerox had done.

indeed I was just using it a basic example as Apple aren't these innovation geniuses they have been made out to be in the media and by fanboys

I love they style of Apples products just not the locked down nature and price