Apples chinese work policy

TPD

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure the rate of suicide in the Foxconn plant is lower than that of China as a whole. Something like 17 out of 400,000 workers at foxconn in the past 5 years, versus 23 out of every 100,000 annually for the whole of China. Those figures are just quoted from memory though.

AeoNGriM

OSI wrote: »

And nobody does this for the latest, XBox, Playstation, Nintendo whatever, the latest game etc?

These people are saps too, what's your point?

RichieC

I like trees but never owned an Apple product.

Gophur

Auvers wrote: »

Knew what Obi-Wan

where did I say I gave a sh1t about Apples ethics nor do I give a flying sh1t about product copying

I just care about value for money and face it Samsung and the Android OS is kicking the arse off Apple at the moment

So, you're supporting SAMSUNG and GOOGLE, versus another Corporation? Good for you!

You don't "give a flying sh1t about product copying". Well, with an attitude like that, you'll go far.

Auvers

Gophur wrote: »

So, you're supporting SAMSUNG and GOOGLE, versus another Corporation? Good for you!

You don't "give a flying sh1t about product copying". Well, with an attitude like that, you'll go far.

no idea what your babbling about

and I have gotten on fine in life with my attitude

thanks darling

Overheal

Auvers wrote: »

nope it just makes you a slave to slick marketing, double the price for half the spec

I have to sell tablets to make a living and theres something to it. Mainly the fact that the iPad is easier for people to use and get into. All the honeycomb interfaces are a little more Here-there-everywhere, and it scares a lot of people away. The prices are better but for people with the money it's often the iPad just for the sake of being easier to work with. People who can deal with that learning curve, or are focused on the price-point, will go for the honeycomb tablets. I'd be happy with either.

On the subject Foxconn is China's problem. Too many companies are invested in it to turn away now. To do so they need to line up new production vendors, which might not even exist for their needs, and not at the same prices. That would generally lead to all of those listed companies taking a huge hit to their competitiveness.

Auvers

Overheal wrote: »

I have to sell tablets to make a living and theres something to it. Mainly the fact that the iPad is easier for people to use and get into. All the honeycomb interfaces are a little more Here-there-everywhere, and it scares a lot of people away. The prices are better but for people with the money it's often the iPad just for the sake of being easier to work with. People who can deal with that learning curve, or are focused on the price-point, will go for the honeycomb tablets. I'd be happy with either.

this is true I will suggest an iPhone\iPad to people who are not that technically competent

but Android is getting far slicker these days and with the emergence of ICS this "ease of use" argument is getting more irrelevant by the day

but this still doesn't matter when you see the price of a Macbook compared to a similar spec Laptop there is no competition on what I would purchase

The Internet Explorer

A great bunch of lads.

Blazer

Gotta love fabois especially the android tards...
Boss is a huge android fanboi and very anti apple. When I got the ip4 he went for the htd desire...
Guess who were ringing up his carrier yesterday whispering into the phone that he needed a few phone as his one had battery issues and problem installing apps to the phone as it only had 128mb internal ram....so you can install to the sd card...what they don't tell you is that you still need to install the app to the internal ram and addons to the sd card if required.
And my iph4? Still going strong with zero issues

Do I think that the iphone 4/4s is one of the best phone out there?- Yes
Do I think that Nokia or Android will eventually bring out a better phone and OS integration - Yes and I'll be hopping over in a heartbeat.

Mate who's a big android fan even admitted that the ipad kicks his Asus transformer's a$$ and it killed him to say it..

So if you're going to be a fanboi...don't...you'll just look and sound...retarded.

Auvers

Blazer wrote: »

So if you're going to be a fanboi...don't...you'll just look and sound...retarded.

please check your facts before posting nonsense,

why is there is no mention of the model phone your boss uses? have you seen the Motorola Razor or the Nexus running ICS?

and comparing a Asus Transformer to an iPad is just downright stupid

cloptrop

What has this got to do with yang and tuang jumping off roofs.

cournioni

At least with slave labour you're guaranteed good quality...










Oh no he didn't... :pac:

Auvers

OSI wrote: »

and the Transformer was touted as an iPad killer when it came out.

by whom? it was a hybrid between a Laptop\Tablet not a dedicated tablet

now the new Transformer Prime on the other hand is a true iPad killer for me

just tell your boss to upgrade his Desire to Gingerbread and the 250 MB system partition is fixed, oh and all you have to do is buy a new battery and insert it by clipping off the back

partyatmygaff

Nothing beats a good old disingenuous comparison. Apple fans in particular seem to be attracted to them.

"I bought a 2011 Macbook Pro 15 for €2000+ last year. It's way better than my old Dell (Whose model and price I carefully neglected to mention)."

If people actually compared like-to-like instead, €2000+ would get you a far better laptop than anything Apple has to offer.

Dyr

mikemac1 wrote: »

Why do Apple get singled out for using Foxconn but never Samsung, Dell, HP and others?

Edit, better posts then mine above with lists

because apple are annoying c**ts as are many of their users

Dyr

OSI wrote: »

My €1000 Macbook Pro is better built, more stable, more responsive, and better at running multiple programs at once, and lasts longer on battery than the 1 year old €2500 Dell it replaced.

lol you paid 2.5k for a dell laptop? Throw the ould model and specs up there :pac:

Auvers

Bambi wrote: »

lol you paid 2.5k for a dell laptop? Throw the ould model and specs up there :pac:

but a 1k MacBook beats it performance :P

I smell a load of bull

cloptrop

OSI wrote: »

You still haven't told us what Apple has to do with this specifically. They are not Apple employees. But Apple still pay the ones working on the production lines responsible for their products extra, making them the best paid of all Foxconn employees. What's more, as has already been stated suicide levels in Foxconn are lower than most national averages, including China.

So, lower suicide rates than the national average, better wages and conditions than the national average, and so many candidates are putting themselves forward to work there they could hire 3,000 people a day. Yeah, sounds like a hellhole.

I dont think they should do anything , I wanted to be informed if i should buy their **** on the grounds they they may or may not be baddies like in captain planet. By what you people are saying is go for it , they are only doing what everyone else is doing .

partyatmygaff

OSI wrote: »

I didn't say I paid for it.



I didn't say it's performance was better. Was the Dell more powerful? Hell yeah. What I said was, it was "better built, more stable, more responsive, and better at running multiple programs at once, and lasts longer on battery". Which to most people is all that matters.

The only actually comparable laptop that Dell sells is the Precision M4600/M6600. Could you please clarify what you mean by "Dell"?

cloptrop

OSI wrote: »

Do you know the working conditions of the people that make everything you own? Do you only buy clothes that you know for certain weren't made at any point by a little Pakistani buy? Do you only buy organic food made in Ireland? Do you only buy cars designed and manufactured in Europe? I really don't see the point in this thread other than an attempt to be part of the Apple bashing brigade unless you have serious concerns for the working conditions of those that manufacture every consumer item.

I like to do my bit for fellow man with my spening power.

cloptrop

OSI wrote: »

What laptop/pc are you using at the moment?

acer a multimedia one the girlfriend tells me , im not really into computers , I have a hp yoke I dont use it much and bought it before I ever heard of foxconn or whatever they're called,

partyatmygaff

OSI wrote: »

I'm not getting into this crap with you again.

What crap?

Is there anything wrong with comparing like-to-like? It doesn't make any sense to compare a laptop that starts at €599 like the XPS 15 to a Macbook Pro 15 that starts at €1830.

minidazzler

cloptrop wrote: »

OSI wrote: »

What laptop/pc are you using at the moment?

acer a multimedia one the girlfriend tells me , im not really into computers , I have a hp yoke I dont use it much and bought it before I ever heard of foxconn or whatever they're called,

So is it fair to say you don't give a sh1t about the conditions of the people who make these products and you simply want to have a go at apple?

smash

Ghandee wrote: »

(paging all iPhone users) :pac:

You use a pager but you slag iPhone users... :eek:

cloptrop

minidazzler wrote: »

So is it fair to say you don't give a sh1t about the conditions of the people who make these products and you simply want to have a go at apple?

I have not been educated on the conditions of these workers.

Discostuy

partyatmygaff wrote: »

What crap?

Is there anything wrong with comparing like-to-like? It doesn't make any sense to compare a laptop that starts at €599 like the XPS 15 to a Macbook Pro 15 that starts at €1830.

It works both ways in fairness, which is why these debates never end.
I have mates who slag me about spending €X amount on an Apple laptop, saying I could get a Dell or other brand that does the same job for half the price.

In truth, if you were to match like for like - a laptop built with similar parts, similar build quality, OS included etc...they usually come in at a very similar price.

And I have found (as someone who uses both Mac and Windows machines daily) the stability and user friendly-ness of Mac is far better than any Windows based PC i've used.

minidazzler

cloptrop wrote: »

minidazzler wrote: »

So is it fair to say you don't give a sh1t about the conditions of the people who make these products and you simply want to have a go at apple?

I have not been educated on the conditions of these workers.

Then what's this thread about?

cloptrop

Discostuy wrote: »

It works both ways in fairness, which is why these debates never end.
I have mates who slag me about spending €X amount on an Apple laptop, saying I could get a Dell or other brand that does the same job for half the price.

In truth, if you were to match like for like - a laptop built with similar parts, similar build quality, OS included etc...they usually come in at a very similar price.

And I have found (as someone who uses both Mac and Windows machines daily) the stability and user friendly-ness of Mac is far better than any Windows based PC i've used.

So that means that I shouldnt buy apple because of workers conditions?
I am finding it hard to see how this relates to thee thread. You may as well have posted

Cows like grass but I like chicken

Go start yer own thread to talk about macbooks shortcomings.

partyatmygaff

OSI wrote: »

We had pages of this in another thread and it's not relevant to this thread.

But as you insist, the Dell in question was a maxed out Dell XPS M1710, with a Core 2 Duo T7600G, a Geforce 7950GTX and 4GB RAM. The thing was ridiculously powerful and eclipsed almost every other laptop out there for raw power. But it still didn't compare to the everyday usability of the 13" Macbook Pro that I bought a year later with a Core 2 Duo P7350, 9400M and 4GB RAM.

Just because a laptop is well-specced and expensive after upgrades doesn't mean it compares to the Macbook Pro. Back in the days of the XPS M1710 and Windows Vista things were different. Back then OS X had a real advantage over Windows Vista (But not really XP as far as i'm concerned).

Nowadays however things have changed. Windows 7 does not need excessive amounts of RAM to run properly. Back then, buying a Macbook Pro 13/15 instead of a high end Windows laptop may have made sense. In 2012 however, spending €2000+ on a Macbook Pro when you can get a vastly superior (In almost every single way) laptop such as the M4600 just doesn't make any sense.

Yakult

I like oranges.

Discostuy

cloptrop wrote: »

So that means that I shouldnt buy apple because of workers conditions?
I am finding it hard to see how this relates to thee thread. You may as well have posted

Fair enough...didn't mean to derail your thread.

I'll still buy their products, along with Samsung and Co regardless of what people say about the conditions of Foxconn.

I don't believe these workers are being held at gun point to work?. They opt to work in the factories to earn a wage, which offers them choices to improve their own living standards. If they weren't working in Foxconn, they'd be working in some other factory making Nike runners or Kenwood pots and pans...for probably less wages and in worse conditions.

The conditions could be improved, but its not up to Apple to throw money at them.
As someone else mentioned in the thread, its an unfair comparison to compare their lifestyle/working conditions to ours and to try and pick out whats fair/unfair as they are two completely different animals.

the_syco

OSI wrote: »

Suicide levels within Foxconn are on par with most regions in China. People in China are queuing up around the clock to work for Foxconn.

Agreed. As one Chinaman once said: "It's dull and grey in there, but less dull and gray than working in the rice paddies. Also we get paid more."

=-=

But yes, I do lol at the tree huggers that protest at lots of things but yet benefit hugely from slave labour...

tricky D

Pfft, mistreatment of workers in China is small beer compared to the numbers of people dying each year so that we can get coltan to work so many of our lovely shiny consumer electronic gagdets. But we like our gagdets so don't mention the war.

ejmaztec

Bambi wrote: »

lol you paid 2.5k for a dell laptop? Throw the ould model and specs up there :pac:

It was €500 for the laptop and €2000 for the fire-damage when it went up in flames.

Auvers

Discostuy wrote: »

In truth, if you were to match like for like - a laptop built with similar parts, similar build quality, OS included etc...they usually come in at a very similar price.

that is so far off the mark its not even funny

Gophur

DELL, ACER, LENOVA (for computers) , Samsung, HTC, NOKIA etc would all charge Apple prices if they could get people to pay them.

Maybe they will be able to charge such prices if/when they make a product as good as an Apple one?

Maximus Alexander

I don't buy Apple products, but not because of any high minded morals. I just prefer to get similar or better products for cheaper.

Also, I still don't understand the purpose of the iPad (or any tablet). I already have a plethora of devices that do all the same things and more.

tonsiltickler

I recently bought a macbook pro 13". I had a 27% discount at the time making it somewhat affordable (that said an asus with the same spec was still €200 cheaper). OS X lion is the vista of OS X releases. If I had the choice again, I think I'd build a hackintosh.

I think people focus on Apple/Foxconn rather than on other brands made in the same factories beacuse of the ginormous profits that apple make.

Yakult

tonsiltickler wrote: »

If I had the choice again, I think I'd build a hackintosh.

I'd do the same. My brother is building one atm so I'm gonna see how it goes and maybe do the same this year.
Imo you cant fault the iPad/iPhone. Both brilliant pieces of kit. I just prefer IOS to android in terms of mobile/tablet technology.

partyatmygaff

Discostuy wrote: »

It works both ways in fairness, which is why these debates never end.
I have mates who slag me about spending €X amount on an Apple laptop, saying I could get a Dell or other brand that does the same job for half the price.

In truth, if you were to match like for like - a laptop built with similar parts, similar build quality, OS included etc...they usually come in at a very similar price.

And I have found (as someone who uses both Mac and Windows machines daily) the stability and user friendly-ness of Mac is far better than any Windows based PC i've used.

Hmm... they're not far off in terms of cost but in terms of quality and performance Windows laptops are still better value even when it comes to the very top end.

Take the base spec of the mid-range M6600 and a MBP 17 with upgrades to bring it up to the base spec of the M6600.

Laptop | Apple MBP 17 | Dell M6600
CPU | i7-2740QM | i7-2740QM
RAM | 8GB DDR 3 | 8GB DDR3
HDD | 750GB 7200RPM | 750GB 7200RPM
GPU | ATI HD6770M 1GB | Nvidia Quadro 3000M 2GB
LCD | 1920 x 1200 | 1920 x 1080
Warranty | 3 years collect and return | 3 years next business day onsite
Price | €3193 (Inc. Vat) | €2557 (Inc. Vat)


Considering the Dell is cheaper, has a more powerful GPU, is better built with better support and isn't even nearly maxed out (Whereas the MBP 17 I quoted is more or less top spec) i'd have to say the Dell is the better laptop here. If you used that €636 change to upgrade to say 16GB RAM, a better CPU, a Quadro 4000M, an SSD or an IPS screen it would annilhate the MBP 17.

conor.hogan.2

Specs can lie. They do not tell the whole story.

Plus you never ever buy ram from apple. So factor that in and it is cheaper than the price qouted above. Also you have applecare bought for that machine which imo is not needed.

Maximus Alexander

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Specs can lie. They do not tell the whole story.

Do you mean because the Mac is prettier?

Sindri

Most products are made from all over the world.

The iphone had pieces made in like 6 different countries, or more, so get over it.

partyatmygaff

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Specs can lie. They do not tell the whole story.

Too right.

I mean... The M6600 is ISV certified, has far more room for expansion, has infinitely better support, is better built, can run an IPS RGB screen and offers many other high end features such as Intel vPro.

That said, the MBP 17 is harbouring the all-powerful glowing Apple logo on the lid though. I heard it doubles the performance of any hardware within 10 cms of it...

conor.hogan.2

No but I can develop mac and/or iOS apps if I wanted to. I can also use ssh without having to download putty and use a terminal that is in anyway useful without having to install cygwin.

Expansion, I can add whatever I want to my MBP - it is called a screwdriver.

Also in what world does Dell have better support than Apple?

ISV certified? Really? Where can I sell my laptop so I can get an ISV certified one?

ejmaztec

I don't want any Apple sh1t in my possession, not because it's knocked together by a load of slaves working up to their elbows in acid, but because Apple sells over-priced sh1te.

partyatmygaff

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

No but I can develop mac and/or iOS apps if I wanted to.

So Apple forcing iOS developers to use Mac OS X to write their apps makes the Macbook Pro better than the M6600? Not really.

I can also use ssh without having to download putty and use a terminal that is in anyway useful without having to install cygwin.

That begs the question of why you'd even need to use SSH or the terminal. Surely OS X doesn't need you to pop open the terminal every couple of seconds? If you're a web developer e.t.c. who actually needs to SSH in to Linux servers, installing Putty or running Ubuntu in VMWare is a fairly trivial task.

Also in what world does Dell have better support than Apple?

The business world. I've posted this thread many times before. Dell give their business customers 3 years next business day onsite warranty as standard with upgrades to 5 years + software support possible. Apple give their customers 1 year collect and return warranty standard with the option of paying extra for 3 years collect and return. Apple's service is only good in comparison to consumer laptops, it pales in comparison to what can be provided for business laptops.

Expansion, I can add whatever I want to my MBP - it is called a screwdriver.

Shame there's nowhere to add any expansions. Here's an example, you can have up to 3 storage drives on an M6600 (2 HDD bays, mSATA SSD). Another example is the RAM. The M6600 can accept up to 32GB (Officially). Apple say the MBP 17 can take up to 8GB but in reality it can take up to 16GB.

I could go on if you like?

conor.hogan.2

In depends on the context of what you want to use the machine for, sure.
But I would argue in general that osx is a much better consumer machine.

If you need an ips display or 3 hdd then a macbook pro is hardly a good fit.
But that is a niche niche case.

You can fit an ssd in a mbp if you remove the cd bay, again it depends on what you need.

Business needs are of course important, but not for consumers or regular users.

partyatmygaff

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

In depends on the context of what you want to use the machine for, sure.
But I would argue in general that osx is a much better consumer machine.

In what context is buying a poorer product for more money better?

If you need an ips display or 3 hdd then a macbook pro is hardly a good fit.
But that is a niche niche case.

What if you're a photographer or videographer who needs an excellent display?

You can fit an ssd in a mbp if you remove the cd bay, again it depends on what you need.

When you have a massive 17" case and you've just spent over €3000 on a laptop you should not have to compromise on anything.

conor.hogan.2

partyatmygaff wrote: »

In what context is buying a poorer product for more money better?

If I do not need IPS, 3 hdd or 32gb of ram then does it matter if the dell can have all those things?
If not then they cost the same price or within 50-60 euro if you buy ram elsewhere.

I do not know when I, or the majority of people, would need more than 16gb of ram or 2 hdd in daily use.