30 litre tank

JDPhotography

Hey
so iv picked up another expensive hobby haha

i bought a 30 litre tank from Equipet, its a Aquael 30L shrimp tank, i have fish in it though, shrimps are horrible looking

i got the filter, light and heater with it all for €50 last one in all their stores

anyway so today i got the bottle of live bacteria stuff and added it along with 2 algae suckers the gold ones and 5 neon tetra's

tomorow i will buy a background picture for the tank and maybe a few more fish

how many small fish could i fit in 30l tank?
i might buy some cherry barbs and some other small fish :cool:

Pic of the tank i bought

Fish in it, Neon Tetra's

Gold algae suckers


cheers
Jamie

Sleepy

Did you treat the tap water before filling the tank? Tap water in Ireland contains chlorine, chloramine and a few other nasties for fish. You'll need something like Seachem Prime, Stress Coat or similar.

If you read the sticky above about 'cycling' a tank, you'll discover that a tank should be set up for about 6 weeks before adding fish. Since you've already done that, you need to make sure you do about a 20% water change daily (treating the fresh water) until the water tests show balanced results (something else to buy instead of the extra fish!). Adding more fish at this point would be disastrous, the fish you already have in are at enough risk as it is.

Good post on another forum on doing a cycle when you've fish in the tank already: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/

JDPhotography

Sleepy wrote: »

Did you treat the tap water before filling the tank? Tap water in Ireland contains chlorine, chloramine and a few other nasties for fish. You'll need something like Seachem Prime, Stress Coat or similar.

If you read the sticky above about 'cycling' a tank, you'll discover that a tank should be set up for about 6 weeks before adding fish. Since you've already done that, you need to make sure you do about a 20% water change daily (treating the fresh water) until the water tests show balanced results (something else to buy instead of the extra fish!). Adding more fish at this point would be disastrous, the fish you already have in are at enough risk as it is.

Good post on another forum on doing a cycle when you've fish in the tank already: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/

we used fresh bottled water, my dad works for a delivery company that delivers ballygowan water around offices so he brought home 5 massive bottles, fish shop said once the live bacteria was added to that water all would be fine

Sleepy

The fish shop lied or didn't know any better. The standard of advice given out by most of them is horrendous!

Bottled water could well hold some trace elements that are bad for fish so I'd still advise treating it with Prime or something similar.

JDPhotography

Sleepy wrote: »

The fish shop lied or didn't know any better. The standard of advice given out by most of them is horrendous!

Bottled water could well hold some trace elements that are bad for fish so I'd still advise treating it with Prime or something similar.

suppose same as everything, they seem like they know what there on about but they dont :P

anyway we added the bottle of live bacteria ( on the back it even said fish can be added same day? )
so far so good with the fish and surely if the water wasn't ok they'd be dead by now?

i'll be going to the fish shop tomorow for the background anyway so is there anything i could add to the water?

JDPhotography

also got info from here
http://newaquariuminformation.com/aquarium-information/freshwater-aquariums/starting-a-freshwater-aquarium.htm

Sleepy

Seachem Prime if they have it, if not, I've used Stress Coat successfully in the past but it's not supposed to be as good. The shop should have a range of dechlorinators, any of which should do fine. "Tap-safe" is another one I've used successfully.

Fish can generally handle poor water for a few days/weeks before it kills them. There's also the fact that what kills them in an uncycled tank is the ammonia produced when their waste breaks down in the tank. Until the bacteria has built up in the filter to break that down, changing 20% or so of the water each day for fresh tap-water that you've treated with the de-chlorinator will dilute the nasty stuff enough to keep the fish healthy.

I'm told that the filter starters *can* work but be sure to follow the instructions to the letter but I've seen them dismissed as utter snake oil by most experienced fishkeepers to have any faith in them.

I'm no expert myself but I've been in the exact same position as yourself when I got bad advice from a pet store and started posting on this forum to get better advice

Sleepy

JDPhotography wrote: »

also got info from here
http://newaquariuminformation.com/aquarium-information/freshwater-aquariums/starting-a-freshwater-aquarium.htm

Some odd info on there tbh!

A tip for your background: apply it using a very, very small bit of cooking oil. Squeedgy it smooth and it'll be far brighter and clear than just using selotape to attach it

JDPhotography

Sleepy wrote: »

Seachem Prime if they have it, if not, I've used Stress Coat successfully in the past but it's not supposed to be as good. The shop should have a range of dechlorinators, any of which should do fine. "Tap-safe" is another one I've used successfully.

Fish can generally handle poor water for a few days/weeks before it kills them. There's also the fact that what kills them in an uncycled tank is the ammonia produced when their waste breaks down in the tank. Until the bacteria has built up in the filter to break that down, changing 20% or so of the water each day for fresh tap-water that you've treated with the de-chlorinator will dilute the nasty stuff enough to keep the fish healthy.

I'm told that the filter starters *can* work but be sure to follow the instructions to the letter but I've seen them dismissed as utter snake oil by most experienced fishkeepers to have any faith in them.

I'm no expert myself but I've been in the exact same position as yourself when I got bad advice from a pet store and started posting on this forum to get better advice

good post

il explain everything to them tomorow anyway and get additives for the water.
also heard that the fish themselves will cycle the water? is that true

i need to figure out how to clean the tank too or is that the filters job
total noob at this, only ever had goldfish haha

fred funk }{

It really is shocking that these shops are giving out the wrong advice all the time.

Sleepy's advice is spot on and should be followed if you want to save your fish. Remember untreated tap water is your enemy. The choline is in tap water to kill the bacteria so we don't get ill if we drink it.

By cycling your tank you are deliberately creating a huge colony of bacteria which live mainly in the filter but all over the tank too. These bacteria do all the hard work in the tank by converting the nasty stuff into the not so nasty stuff. If chlorine is added to the tank, all the bacteria are wiped out.

Never clean the filter with tap water, use some tank water. Feed sparingly too, especially now as your tank isn't cycled. A little pinch every two to three days is enough until it's cycled.

Good luck and don't forget to put a picture in the photo thread.

dbrock

what was the product called, they supplied you with the bacteria in it,
i have used organic aqua in the past and have set up aquariums on the day and added fish in straight away,

fred funk }{

dbrock wrote: »

what was the product called, they supplied you with the bacteria in it,
i have used organic aqua in the past and have set up aquariums on the day and added fish in straight away,

Yeah but do you not have to keep adding that to the water all the time?

JDPhotography

dbrock wrote: »

what was the product called, they supplied you with the bacteria in it,
i have used organic aqua in the past and have set up aquariums on the day and added fish in straight away,

tetra eco start i think was the name, small yellow bottle anyway

i do expect my fish to die as iv been told im doing a fish in cycle so i need to check water levels with a test kit and change water, adding fresh water with declorinator in it?

JDPhotography

fred funk }{ wrote: »

It really is shocking that these shops are giving out the wrong advice all the time.

Sleepy's advice is spot on and should be followed if you want to save your fish. Remember untreated tap water is your enemy. The choline is in tap water to kill the bacteria so we don't get ill if we drink it.

By cycling your tank you are deliberately creating a huge colony of bacteria which live mainly in the filter but all over the tank too. These bacteria do all the hard work in the tank by converting the nasty stuff into the not so nasty stuff. If chlorine is added to the tank, all the bacteria are wiped out.

Never clean the filter with tap water, use some tank water. Feed sparingly too, especially now as your tank isn't cycled. A little pinch every two to three days is enough until it's cycled.

Good luck and don't forget to put a picture in the photo thread.

cheers for that
and yep ill put up a pic when my tank is alive and well with moe fish

fred funk }{

JDPhotography wrote: »

tetra eco start i think was the name, small yellow bottle anyway

i do expect my fish to die as iv been told im doing a fish in cycle so i need to check water levels with a test kit and change water, adding fresh water with declorinator in it?

Your fish wont die if you take Sleepy's advice. Water changes every day or second day treat the new water with water conditioner. Cut the food back to a pinch every two to three days as this reduces the waste from the fish. We've all been there and learnt the hard way.:)

JDPhotography

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Your fish wont die if you take Sleepy's advice. Water changes every day or second day treat the new water with water conditioner. Cut the food back to a pinch every two to three days as this reduces the waste from the fish. We've all been there and learnt the hard way.:)

and how long should it take before the tank is ready fo new fish?

Silverfish

Don't mean to be the bearer of bad news here, but those loaches should grow to 6 - 10 inches, so they are way too big for that tank.

Neons need to be in shoals of about 6 - 12, so they'll struggle a little with that tank too.

Barbs are way too big to go in there.

The only thing I'd keep in that tank really are rasboras,.

fred funk }{

JDPhotography wrote: »

and how long should it take before the tank is ready fo new fish?

Depends. You need to get a test kit. Ammonia and NitrIte are the result of the fish excrements and these are what kills the fish. When the tank is cycled the bacteria convert those into NitrAte which is relativly harmless to the fish at low levels, thats where regular water changes come in, to keep the NitrAte levels down.

I would test for Ammonia and Nitrite every few days to make sure the levels are very low so the fish will survive. When you start to see a result for Nitrate then you know the tank is starting to cycle. At that stage you should test for all three chemicals. You will notice the Ammonia and Nitrite levels go down and the Nitrate go up. When there is no Ammonia or Nitrite and you have a level of Nitrate then the tank is cycled.

With fish in the tank it will cycle quicker than without. Maybe a month or so. Don't clean the filter at all during this time and remember untreated tap water and too much fish food is your enemy

kylith

Silverfish wrote: »

Don't mean to be the bearer of bad news here, but those loaches should grow to 6 - 10 inches, so they are way too big for that tank.

Neons need to be in shoals of about 6 - 12, so they'll struggle a little with that tank too.

Barbs are way too big to go in there.

The only thing I'd keep in that tank really are rasboras,.

Chinese Algae Eaters will also attack other fish as they get bigger. I recommend returning them to the shop, and maybe picking up some more neon tetras. Although, maybe wait a while; from what I've heard of neons it's unlikely that they'll survive in a tank that's still cycling.

JDPhotography

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Depends. You need to get a test kit. Ammonia and NitrIte are the result of the fish excrements and these are what kills the fish. When the tank is cycled the bacteria convert those into NitrAte which is relativly harmless to the fish at low levels, thats where regular water changes come in, to keep the NitrAte levels down.

I would test for Ammonia and Nitrite every few days to make sure the levels are very low so the fish will survive. When you start to see a result for Nitrate then you know the tank is starting to cycle. At that stage you should test for all three chemicals. You will notice the Ammonia and Nitrite levels go down and the Nitrate go up. When there is no Ammonia or Nitrite and you have a level of Nitrate then the tank is cycled.

With fish in the tank it will cycle quicker than without. Maybe a month or so. Don't clean the filter at all during this time and remember untreated tap water and too much fish food is your enemy

yep i picked up a Nutrafin mini test kit, even reading the little booklets im still confused on what the levels should be at?

Cameron Poe

NH3 (Ammonia) should be 0 at all times.
N02 (Nitrite) should be 0 at all times.
N03 (Nitrate) should be below 40 ppm but should preferably be below 20ppm.
Ph should be around 7 for neons. They will usually tolerate a bit higher though.

If you see the ammonia or nitrite creeping up do immediate water changes. Keep an eye on the nitrate but don't panic unless it's very high. It will rise as the tank matures and only regular water changes will keep it in check.

If you want something that looks like a tiger barb check out pentazona barbs. Nice and peaceful and stay smaller than tigers.

JDPhotography

Cameron Poe wrote: »

NH3 (Ammonia) should be 0 at all times.
N02 (Nitrite) should be 0 at all times.
N03 (Nitrate) should be below 40 ppm but should preferably be below 20ppm.
Ph should be around 7 for neons. They will usually tolerate a bit higher though.

If you see the ammonia or nitrite creeping up do immediate water changes. Keep an eye on the nitrate but don't panic unless it's very high. It will rise as the tank matures and only regular water changes will keep it in check.

If you want something that looks like a tiger barb check out pentazona barbs. Nice and peaceful and stay smaller than tigers.

i done a water change today
done 50% change and in the new water before adding into the tank i put in declorinator

should i have waited for the water to come to room temp or just put it in, the heater is on in the tank anyway and the tank is showing a steady 22 degrees

ill do the next one in a couple of days and add some more live bacteria when im at it, does that sound right?

Cameron Poe

What was the temp before you did a water change? You want it up at 27.

What were your readings after the water change?
I wouldn't do another one for a a week unless the dangerous ones start to rise. 50% is a lot, i'd only do 30% at a time unless your ammonia or nitrite have shot up.

Adding more live bacteria will do no harm.

fred funk }{

Your water should be about 25, 22 is a little cold. When adding water it should be the same temp as the tank water. Use the kettle to bring the new water temp up before adding to the tank. A big change in temp will shock the fish.

JDPhotography

Cameron Poe wrote: »

What was the temp before you did a water change? You want it up at 27.

What were your readings after the water change?
I wouldn't do another one for a a week unless the dangerous ones start to rise. 50% is a lot, i'd only do 30% at a time unless your ammonia or nitrite have shot up.

Adding more live bacteria will do no harm.

I dont know as i only got the thermomoter a couple of hours ago
the readings were showing alot of No2 in the tank so done a 50% change

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Your water should be about 25, 22 is a little cold. When adding water it should be the same temp as the tank water. Use the kettle to bring the new water temp up before adding to the tank. A big change in temp will shock the fish.

i have no way to set the temp in the tank as its just a fixed heater, or it could be a dodgy thermomather , only cost 2 quid :P

fred funk }{

That's strange. There must be a temperature selector on it somewhere.

JDPhotography

fred funk }{ wrote: »

That's strange. There must be a temperature selector on it somewhere.

dont think so?
theres no dials or nothing on it

it came with the Aquael 30l shrimp set

Cameron Poe

It sounds to me that the heater supplied is designed to keep the tank at a low temperature for shrimp.

You wll have to either change the heater or change your fish if this is the case.

JDPhotography

Cameron Poe wrote: »

It sounds to me that the heater supplied is designed to keep the tank at a low temperature for shrimp.

You wll have to either change the heater or change your fish if this is the case.

the temp has come up to 25 degrees now

done a test there and got strange results?

Nitrate - 0
Ph - 7/8
Nitrite - 0
Ammonia - 0

and earlier it gave a high reading of nitrate so i done a water change,

are them readings ok or should i be worried?

Cameron Poe

The large water change probably just brought the nitrates right down. Test it again tomorrow and feed sparingly. You only need to worry if the ammonia and nitrites rise.

JDPhotography

Cameron Poe wrote: »

The large water change probably just brought the nitrates right down. Test it again tomorrow and feed sparingly. You only need to worry if the ammonia and nitrites rise.

will do
thanks