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3 phase power to home

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  • 29-01-2012 12:06pm
    #1
    franciebellew
    Site Banned Posts: 148 ✭✭


    Hi all,

    I would like to have 3 phase 400v in my home to control a variable speed drives for a process. How is this possible?

    Is there such a thing as 240 to 400 converters?


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    #2
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,469 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Yes LIDL had them last week.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #3
    m.j.w
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭m.j.w


    You have to contact the esb and have them set it up for you. Its dear enough to get it done, someone in the electrical forum might know an approx price


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    #4
    franciebellew
    Site Banned Posts: 148 ✭✭franciebellew


    Lidl had them ? What are they called?


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    #5
    laugh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭laugh


    You can use a rotary phase converter in some low power applications.


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    #6
    Micky Dolenz
    Registered Users Posts: 44,080 ✭✭✭✭Micky Dolenz


    Mod

    Moved from After Hours.


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    #7
    franciebellew
    Site Banned Posts: 148 ✭✭franciebellew


    Would these work for controlling 11kw vsds?


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    #8
    dingding
    Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭dingding


    It might be possible and cheaper in the long run to replace the motors with single phase ones.


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    #9
    dingding
    Registered Users Posts: 4,931 ✭✭✭dingding


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Yes LIDL had them last week.

    I think that was a single phase petrol generator.


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    #10
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    franciebellew wrote: »
    Would these work for controlling 11kw vsds?

    What size are the motors you are going to be running?


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    #11
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Yes LIDL had them last week.

    They were probably 12v to 240v invertors, hard to imagine lidl selling a single phase to 3 phase convertor. Never know with them though.


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    #12
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    franciebellew wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I would like to have 3 phase 400v in my home to control a variable speed drives for a process. How is this possible?

    Is there such a thing as 240 to 400 converters?

    It is possible to supply a VSD with single phase 230VAC and use it to supply a 3 phase 400VAC motor.

    Typically a VSD is supplied by AC (single or 3 phase). This is rectified (changed to DC). Pulse Width Modulation,(PWM) is used to turn the DC into 3 phase AC. This in turn supplies the motor at the desired frequency. This is made possible with the use of MOSFETS or IGBTs. The picture below gives a simplified overview.

    abbf6.gif

    The question the OP needs to answer is what size load is the motor? This will determine if 3 phase is required or not.

    Unlike a normal DOL starter the motor staring current can be limited. Also very precise speed and torque control can be achieved.


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    #13
    SeanElec1
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭SeanElec1


    ABB certainly have some small VSDs that accept a single phase input. Whether this includes an 11 kW option, I do not know. Check ABB on the internet. Does your machine really need 11 kW ?.


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    #14
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    SeanElec1 wrote: »
    ABB certainly have some small VSDs that accept a single phase input. Whether this includes an 11 kW option, I do not know. Check ABB on the internet. Does your machine really need 11 kW ?.

    I don't think that the OP has confirmed motor size.
    If there is one or more 11kW VSDs then a 3 phase supply will definitely be required.


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    #15
    franciebellew
    Site Banned Posts: 148 ✭✭franciebellew


    Hi there,

    Not sure of motor size. I ll take a look in the morning and come back. Is 11kw not sufficient? It's for running a small reverse osmosis skid in my bathroom


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    #16
    franciebellew
    Site Banned Posts: 148 ✭✭franciebellew


    Motor is 7.5kw


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    #17
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    franciebellew wrote: »
    Hi there,

    Not sure of motor size. I ll take a look in the morning and come back. Is 11kw not sufficient? It's for running a small reverse osmosis skid in my bathroom

    Where is the 11kw figure coming from, do you already have a vsd or something?


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    #18
    franciebellew
    Site Banned Posts: 148 ✭✭franciebellew


    Yes it's a vacon Vsd. I'm controlling through a device net opto board to Allen Bradley plc


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    #19
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    franciebellew wrote: »
    Yes it's a vacon Vsd. I'm controlling through a device net opto board to Allen Bradley plc

    Well you wont need 11kw supplying it if its a 2kw motor as an example, but an 11kw VSD will certainly be a 3 phase one.

    Edit: I just seen now, its a 7.5kw 3 phase motor? Thats a good size for domestic use anyway.


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    #20
    franciebellew
    Site Banned Posts: 148 ✭✭franciebellew


    Yes it's three phase


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    #21
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    franciebellew wrote: »
    Yes it's three phase

    Yea i just seen that, anything over a 1.5 to 2 kw induction motor is usually 3 phase. You will need a proper 3 phase supply for that i would say.


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    #22
    franciebellew
    Site Banned Posts: 148 ✭✭franciebellew


    Can I get 3 phase installed at home or do I need to buy a generator?


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    #23
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    franciebellew wrote: »
    Can I get 3 phase installed at home or do I need to buy a generator?

    You can get it installed, or a convertor could be used, but a single phase to 3 phase convertor to power a 7.5kw 3 phase motor would be a high load on a standard domestic single phase supply. And expensive too.

    I dont know what the cost of having a 3 phase supply installed is, probably no dearer than a good convertor anyway, unless your in a rural isolated area.

    The standing charge for 3 phase i think is a fair bit higher for commercial use probably, where as if its just a domestic 3 phase machine, it is not as high. Others here would know more about that than me.


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    #24
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    franciebellew wrote: »
    Yes it's a vacon Vsd. I'm controlling through a device net opto board to Allen Bradley plc

    Nice VSD. We installed 2 Vacon VSDs in work. They are connected to a Siemens PLC via Profibus. They are much smaller that the equivalent ABB units.


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    #25
    franciebellew
    Site Banned Posts: 148 ✭✭franciebellew


    2011 wrote: »
    Nice VSD. We installed 2 Vacon VSDs in work. They are connected to a Siemens PLC via Profibus. They are much smaller that the equivalent ABB units.

    I've used a few of the water cooled ones before on some projects. Same as yourself S7-300 with Profibus.

    This is just a small RO skid I'm installing in our bathroom for a purified water system. I'm using an Allenbradley 1500 with deviceNet scanner. Neat little device.

    All going well providing I can get 3 phase power installed in the house


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    #26
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    franciebellew wrote: »

    All going well providing I can get 3 phase power installed in the house

    Keep us posted on that, its asked now and again in here about costs etc.


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    #27
    SeanElec1
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭SeanElec1


    Up to 2.2 kW the ABB ACS350 VSD will take in single phase & convert to 3 phase. At 7.5 kW you will not find a VSD to do this. You could try Seamus Forristal in waterford. http://www.sfphaseconverters.com/ In effect he retails small 3 phase generators which are driven by single phase motors, so you get the result you need, if you can provide enough 1 phase power to get the motor started.
    have you taken delivery of the RO unit?. Do you need a 7.5 kW RO for a house. A smaller unit which works for a larger portion of the day might fulfill your needs.


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    #28
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    SeanElec1 wrote: »
    In effect he retails small 3 phase generators which are driven by single phase motors, so you get the result you need, if you can provide enough 1 phase power to get the motor started.

    Not much power is usually needed to get motors started really, and would be less than the running power, the high starting current is an unwanted factor, rather than a required one. The VSD eliminates that anyway.

    The starting current for a non loaded motor is the same as for a fully loaded motor also. It just lasts longer on a starting motor thats loaded.

    But the 7.5 kw loading will be a high one on a single phase, although the motor is probably not fully loaded anyway. But if it was fully loaded, this could present a 9 or 10kw load on the single phase side.


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