UFC/MMA etc crossover Thread *Spoilers for latest show*

LeeJM

WWE are not TNA. Also Van Zant has a bit of mainstream publicity at the mo because of Dancing with the Stars so getting her in for say a Tag Team match at Summerslam would be a great move by WWE.

ERG89

Monokne wrote: »

I imagine anything is possible right now given the sides are on good terms, but it seems as though the information that's leaked about WWE requesting Paige Van Zant for Summerslam in return for Brock at UFC200 is pretty solid.

Her agent said they asked about her so there is no leak. As for Rousey it's a possibility but She recently had knee surgery & is due back for a fight around the new year so may need to be medically cleared. It's not a certainty she fights again tho as she seems more focused on her celebrity & acting career lately.

Chain Smoker

LeeJM wrote: »

WWE are not TNA. Also Van Zant has a bit of mainstream publicity at the mo because of Dancing with the Stars so getting her in for say a Tag Team match at Summerslam would be a great move by WWE.

Seems like a move that benefits UFC far more than WWE. Realistically she's nothing at the moment. Her looks got her a bit of a sped up push within the UFC which has led to her receiving a level of celebrity on a par with these people.

Presenting her to the global Summerslam audience as an ass kicking outsider a la Rousey does **** all for WWE but can potentially do a lot for VanZant. If they're gonna waste their top women on some tag dealio involving her (as opposed to a well built up one-on-one), then that's a shame.

Pentecost

Paige vs Paige in a cage

LeeJM

Chain Smoker wrote: »

Seems like a move that benefits UFC far more than WWE. Realistically she's nothing at the moment. Her looks got her a bit of a sped up push within the UFC which has led to her receiving a level of celebrity on a par with these people.

Presenting her to the global Summerslam audience as an ass kicking outsider a la Rousey does **** all for WWE but can potentially do a lot for VanZant. If they're gonna waste their top women on some tag dealio involving her (as opposed to a well built up one-on-one), then that's a shame.

These people?! There is 7 big stars in that line up! If Strictly had a comparitive line up in the UK it would be along the lines of Kevin Keegan(Doug Flutie), Jeremy Clarkson (Geraldo), Sienna Miller (Barton), Rio Ferdinand (Von Miller), Jamie Redknapp (Brown), Robbie Williams (Morris) and Michelle Keegan (Sweetin). Those see how Paige being a celeb at the level of "these people" is a bad thing.

And I never said use the top women. Summerslam should be where we see Sasha destroy Charlotte and take the title. But no harm in having a second womens match. Say Becky, Nattie and Paige vs Dana, Lana and Summer Rae. And she should be presented as a big deal. Presentation is 90% of the battle in making something appear important. Have vignettes of Becky and Paige practising armbars, Paige and Nattie in the Dungeon in Calgary with Bret. Go all out and it becomes a big deal.

And WWE should treat as such because while they are making millions ratings are falling at an alarming rate. SmackDown live is a USA Network enforced change because they are concerned about ratings. So WWE and UFC working together unofficially is a great move if thats what this is.

Chain Smoker

Okay, so Jeremy Clarkson and Sienna Miller are significantly bigger international stars than their counterpoints you've given there. Robbie Williams was an infinitely bigger solo star than any individual member of boys ii men, an easier comparison could maybe be someone like mark owen.
And sports people will be the filler names they always are on these things.

Internationally they're "these people" . The kind of faintly recognisable names to the masses the you might recollect from one of those family guy jokes you didn't get.
If they treat her as the kind of meh b-tier celebrity they do with maria menunos or whoever, grand, whatever, ultimately who cares. If they position her as a major focus in any kind of way, it's just yet another case of wwe being embarrassingly desperate for mainstream approval.

LeeJM

Geraldo Rivera is an infinitely bigger name worldwide than Jeremy Clarkson. Miller I will concede is bigger than Barton. Williams is a UK star whose best days were 13-15 yrs ago, Boyz II Men are one of the biggest selling RnB groups of all time, fair comparison I think. Anyway thats OT for now.

Being a casual NFL fan those players arent names I vaguely recognise, they are big time players. Also just billing her as a UFC fighter instantly legitimizes her. She would be just 2 months removed from a run on one of the most watched tv shows in America. Its a total no brainer to put some more focus on her than a Maria Menunos. WWE are more mainstream now than ever before so dont understand why you would find it embarrassing to feature PVZ.

Chain Smoker

Nah, Top Gear is absolutely gigantic and Clarkson is (well, was) Top Gear. Rivera's a dude who was on celebrity apprentice a year ago so he's already well on his way to being an old dude who turns up at whatever will pay him Clarkson's a level above appearing on shows like that, and so is Williams (his best days were ages ago, but he was playing to 100k people as a solo act).

Sports people need to find ways to make their name have greater reach so that they'll have as much value as possible endlessly endorsing tat in their retirement, it's very much in their interest to appear on shows like that. It's a savvy move by UFC to put her onto it just to get her name out there before she loses too many fights (and at her age, once she has the exposure she can lose a few without it wrecking her career) but as it stands, outside of UFC, I doubt she does anything to move the metre.
Now, if she wins a few more fights, things change hugely.


There are very very very very very few celebrity appearances in WWE that I think carried any kind of value at all relative to the amount of effort put in on WWE's part, mind.

nasty_crash

Antonio Brown is the best wide reciever in NFL consistantly for the last 3-4 years so he is a massive star in the states!
Von Miller is the latest superbowl MVP - he is a massive star in the states!

Sure VanZant might not be the biggest star this side of the world - but shes huge in the states.... hence the reason that she was one of only 6 fighters to have the individual deals with Reebok when the deal came in - along with Conor, Ronda, John Jones!!! So shes a big deal over there!!

Sure we dont like celebrity cameos but WWE need to do something to improve the ratings - if they dont they will eventually get dropped from the network thus meaning changing network which could lead to production reductions etc.

This unofficial link could be a massive boost for WWE - if brock wins against Hunt - could be a massive push come summerslam

A Rogue Hobo

Sorry but just to point out, Clarkson is barely a blip on the average Americans radar. Top Gear would be considered more of a niche show there than the media juggarnaut it is here. By no means a big celebrity in America, especially compared to the other names mentioned there.

Gotta remember America is in its own bubble, what we consider big here means nothing to most Americans. Robbie Williams for example never "broke" America and was considered a bit of a flop over there. Also whoever was criticizing the fact that they were in Celebrity Apprentice or Dancing With The Stars, those shows are huge in the states and wouldn't be associated with the d-list celebrities that do those shows over in the UK. Celebrity Apprentice especially was huge (like biggest program in the country at one stage huge) over there. To give it perspective, their presidential candidate hosted the show.

The likes of Van Zant could put some eyes on the product but only if she was actually in a match. Rousey in particular would be the one they'd be hopeful to get. She is a huge box office star internationally. Champ or not she is still considered the female representative of the UFC brand, and is beginning to pave a nice little film career out of it too. Rouseys drawing power shouldn't be dismissed.

Monokne

Feels like we're just slightly off topic here lads ;-)

Agent Coulson

Hunt just said he believes Lesnar is juiced to gills and because he took the fight on short notice he is exempt to testing.

A Rogue Hobo

Agent Coulson wrote:

Hunt just said he believes Lesnar is juiced to gills and because he took the fight on short notice he is exempt to testing.

I thought UFC came out today after it went public that he will be exempt and said he will be subject to a random test no?

Depp

A Rogue Hobo wrote: »

I thought UFC came out today after it went public that he will be exempt and said he will be subject to a random test no?

hes already been tested, i love hunt, but hes either been fed false info, or hes talking out of his hole

CSF

Depp wrote: »

hes already been tested, i love hunt, but hes either been fed false info, or hes talking out of his hole

Dying for Brock to take him on a trip to Suplex City, I wonder since this time he is a WWE contracted superstar will he be expected to come out to his WWE ring music.

Chain Smoker

Monokne wrote: »

Feels like we're just slightly off topic here lads ;-)

I'm not gonna be happy until everyone admits there's far more money in seeing Jeremy Clarkson in the Ring vs Brock than there ever would be seeing Geraldo Rivera go one-on-one with the one behind the one in twenty-one and one!

johnnyryan89

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Hunt just said he believes Lesnar is juiced to gills and because he took the fight on short notice he is exempt to testing.

Think it's more that Brock is exempt from having to wait the four months before he can fight but is still being tested. Because Brock has been out for quite awhile they are treating him as a new fighter who can be exempt from the four month wait and testing period but will still be tested just haven't got to wait the four months.

MrLucidLJ

I think WWE is taking a big risk letting one of their biggest stars compete at UFC 200. It is good to see WWE be more open to work with UFC and do deals, like they did with UFC last year for Ronda's appearance at Wrestlemania 31 which was a very cool moment, but the timing of this seems bad. UFC 200 is only 6 weeks before WWE's 2nd biggest show of the year and a lot of bad things could happen. Brock hasn't fought in nearly 5 years now and his UFC career while it had success winning the UFC Heavyweight title, the rest of it was hampered by diverticulitis and in Lesnar last 3 fights we really saw this happen and his abilities were exposed at being average at best, after first round TKO by Velasquez & Overeem.
If Lesnar truly want to see if he still had it he may have decided to resign with them last year after doing WM31 and see if he still has it to compete. Now 39 and being out of the sport so long can he really even compete with a guy like Mark Hunt? If he gets KO badly, this could result in a medical suspension which could rule him out of Summerslam. I was thinking who could he face at the show but surely not having Brock on the show would hurt. Mark Hunt at 42 is a very dangerous and outside being a top 5 fighter is no easy opponent. If he loses in bad fashion it will definitely hurt the credibility of Brock who after his initial stumbles in WWE has for the most part been booked quite strong.
Does Vince truly know the caliber of opponent of a Mark Hunt, or has he left his trust in some of his YES men? It's good business wise for WWE to get Brock exposure on UFC, but I don't see the benefits for them. Will Brock add some buy rate to the show? Yes he will add buyrates, but compared to the draw he used to be in UFC & setting some great numbers 5-6 years ago, will he have the same effect on possibly the biggest show in UFC history. The cost of Brock to fight on this show was surely in the 3-5 million range to get him fight, will UFC generate 2 million plus buys on this show to justify him being worth his money and the extra business UFC could generate from his name and drawing power?
I heard WWE wants to get Paige VanZant on Summerslam in an angle or some segment which makes sense because of her huge popularity from Dancing with the Stars and inches close to winning the show. But is she more valuable to the show to add more WWE Network subscriptions around the Summer then Brock would be if he was booked in a big match? I feel Brock was wasted to a degree at WM32 in a decent match with Dean Ambrose but nothing that was great that really helped both guys to get over and put them on a certain path towards Summerslam. Brock worked a very safe style match.
I know UFC wanted to get a big name on the show but was Brock the right option? Could UFC done more to get Ronda vs Meisha for the title, or even a rematch with Meisha vs Holm? There was rumblings earlier this year with GSP to make his return that would have been perfect him vs Lawlor for the title what a big match that could have been. I know UFC needed something big to replace the Conor vs Nate fight but was this the best option.
I think UFC benefit in terms of they will add some PPV buys to the show with Brock, the fact its UFC 200 and now they can build UFC 202 & later on in the year the NYC show as being 1 Million plus buyrates.

Straight Edge Punk

Its quite simple in my mind, if Brock loses(which is very likely) then he never recovers in wwe. How can you make him look like a monster in WWE after seeing him take a beating in UFC?

MrLucidLJ

Straight Edge Punk wrote: »

Its quite simple in my mind, if Brock loses(which is very likely) then he never recovers in wwe. How can you make him look like a monster in WWE after seeing him take a beating in UFC?

Exactly and Mark Hunt has massive KO power even at his age. Brock doesn't have that power more grappling and wrestling which will be tough against Mark Hunt who has a wide frame and base. I think in Vince mind he wants Lesnar to win then have his boy Roman go over him clean either at Summerslam or Wrestlemania for next year.

ERG89

Straight Edge Punk wrote: »

Its quite simple in my mind, if Brock loses(which is very likely) then he never recovers in wwe. How can you make him look like a monster in WWE after seeing him take a beating in UFC?

He lost to Velasquez and Overeem before joining the WWE......He got finished in both fights & everyone is acknowledging that Hunt is a difficult fight for him.
Don't see how it would damage him as much as WWE did from Jan - April this year

Straight Edge Punk

ERG89 wrote: »

He lost to Velasquez and Overeem before joining the WWE......He got finished in both fights & everyone is acknowledging that Hunt is a difficult fight for him.
Don't see how it would damage him as much as WWE did from Jan - April this year

When he came back to WWE they could use his sickness as the (very valid) reason for his defeats. Now he has been pushed as a monster, the man who can't be beaten, the man who ended the streak. Where do you go if Hunt knocks him spark out in the first round?

RobbingBandit

Straight Edge Punk wrote: »

Its quite simple in my mind, if Brock loses(which is very likely) then he never recovers in wwe. How can you make him look like a monster in WWE after seeing him take a beating in UFC?

Depends how he loses if indeed he does. Other side of the coin is what if he wins and gets his taste for it again.

Brock all in is a ringer now only to be used at the big four if even that often. No one else would /could man handle cena the way he did.

MrLucidLJ

ERG89 wrote: »

He lost to Velasquez and Overeem before joining the WWE......He got finished in both fights & everyone is acknowledging that Hunt is a difficult fight for him.
Don't see how it would damage him as much as WWE did from Jan - April this year

I don't think WWE has ruined him this year. I think his match with Dean was tame and not as wild as I was expecting it was very safe. The lead up was decent. I thought him getting thrown out at the Rumble by the Wyatt family would lead to something later on in the year. Still time for that Wyatt needs something to do when he comes back.

ERG89

Straight Edge Punk wrote: »

When he came back to WWE they could use his sickness as the (very valid) reason for his defeats. Now he has been pushed as a monster, the man who can't be beaten, the man who ended the streak. Where do you go if Hunt knocks him spark out in the first round?

Well wwe aren't advertising the fight so they aren't obliged to acknowledge it. Compared to everyone else on the roster there isn't one guy who looks as intimidating or performs like Lesnar. Nobody is even close no matter how he does at 200.
Above any time ever there has been so many surprises in the ufc & nobody is an unstoppable force so if anyone thinks Lesnar looks bad losing after a 4 year layoff they must not know much about fighting. Do Holm, Rousey, Rockholt or McGregor look bad or would people not pay to see them perform now after all being upset?
Especially at heavyweight fights can end or change in an instant. Not sure how he looks bad losing to such a dangerous opponent.

Straight Edge Punk

ERG89 wrote: »

Well wwe aren't advertising the fight so they aren't obliged to acknowledge it. Compared to everyone else on the roster there isn't one guy who looks as intimidating or performs like Lesnar. Nobody is even close no matter how he does at 200.
Above any time ever there has been so many surprises in the ufc & nobody is an unstoppable force so if anyone thinks Lesnar looks bad losing after a 4 year layoff they must not know much about fighting. Do Holm, Rousey, Rockholt or McGregor look bad or would people not pay to see them perform now after all being upset?
Especially at heavyweight fights can end or change in an instant. Not sure how he looks bad losing to such a dangerous opponent.

To UFC fans, of course it doesn't make a huge difference to his image. I am talking about the wwe fans, they see Brock has lost a legit fight, he loses some of that aura in their eyes.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Well he's contracted to WWE and has been advertised for SS so barring injury he'll be there if he knows whats good for him.

ERG89

Straight Edge Punk wrote: »

To UFC fans, of course it doesn't make a huge difference to his image. I am talking about the wwe fans, they see Brock has lost a legit fight , he loses some of that aura in their eyes.

But he lost to Mir by tapout too. If wwe fans don't understand the basic rules of sport & he has a hard fight after a long layoff they must not have any intelligence.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

barring injury he'll be there if he knows whats good for him.

You make it sound like a threat. :pac:

MrLucidLJ

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Depends how he loses if indeed he does. Other side of the coin is what if he wins and gets his taste for it again.

Brock all in is a ringer now only to be used at the big four if even that often. No one else would /could man handle cena the way he did.

There are upsides if he does win good promotion for UFC & WWE. He could get the itch to go for a few fights and work to the title. I think WWE might let him do it until he loses badly I would imagine.

MrLucidLJ

ERG89 wrote: »

Well wwe aren't advertising the fight so they aren't obliged to acknowledge it. Compared to everyone else on the roster there isn't one guy who looks as intimidating or performs like Lesnar. Nobody is even close no matter how he does at 200.
Above any time ever there has been so many surprises in the ufc & nobody is an unstoppable force so if anyone thinks Lesnar looks bad losing after a 4 year layoff they must not know much about fighting. Do Holm, Rousey, Rockholt or McGregor look bad or would people not pay to see them perform now after all being upset?
Especially at heavyweight fights can end or change in an instant. Not sure how he looks bad losing to such a dangerous opponent.

They mentioned it on their site and that was it really. I think that they could push it under the carpet if he does lose WWE are good for doing that but I think they will really push it if he does win in a major way. There could have been guys like Brock if they are booked better. Rusev was like Brock until his loses. Roman Heel as a badass would be great as well.
It wouldn't be a shock if he lost this past year has been one of the craziest we have seen Ronda Conor Rockhold all lose to underdogs. I think if a person in MMA goes on a streak of loses they lose their drawing power. If Conor loses again to Diaz which could well happen he might lose his appeal as a megastar. I think it can hurt to lose to Hunt.