UFC/MMA etc crossover Thread *Spoilers for latest show*

MrLucidLJ

Straight Edge Punk wrote: »

To UFC fans, of course it doesn't make a huge difference to his image. I am talking about the wwe fans, they see Brock has lost a legit fight, he loses some of that aura in their eyes.

I'm not sure how UFC fans see him now. I think when he first joined they were like whos this guy but when he won the title and beat Carwin and showed heart he gained a lot of respect. The 2 loses even though he wasn't 100% he probably lost credibility with the fans. If he loses to Hunt badly KO first round then it hurts both UFC but more WWE.

MrLucidLJ

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Well he's contracted to WWE and has been advertised for SS so barring injury he'll be there if he knows whats good for him.

I think Vince see's this as an opportunity to get more eyes back on WWE. So if he wins the fight in a good way Vince would probably let him do a few more fights and promote him through WWE TV. I have no idea who he would face at Summerslam tbh.

MrLucidLJ

ERG89 wrote: »

But he lost to Mir by tapout too. If wwe fans don't understand the basic rules of sport & he has a hard fight after a long layoff they must not have any intelligence.




You make it sound like a threat. :pac:

He lost to Mir in an earlier fight and then smashed him in the rematch. Even with a tapout he got credibility back. I know he's been off for 4 years but the fact he was talking about going back a year ago it shows he has the itch for it.

Monokne

Chain Smoker wrote: »

I'm not gonna be happy until everyone admits there's far more money in seeing Jeremy Clarkson in the Ring vs Brock than there ever would be seeing Geraldo Rivera go one-on-one with the one behind the one in twenty-one and one!

I'm sending that question to Meltzer to answer on the next Wrestling Observer Radio

Liam McPoyle

Are people really concerned that if he loses at 200 that he won't be a credible monster in WWE?

At the end of the day, ufc is real fighting, wwe is "fake".

Going into a wwe ring after taking a proper beating adds more credibility IMO.

We live in an era of smart fans and Brock taking a pasting in a proper fight, and still getting back into the wwe ring adds more to him, it shows fans that he can fight, that he can take and give real punishment and that he is a credible threat to whomever he faces in wwe.

Its a non argument IMO.

Bounty Hunter

Don't think we need two seperate threads about Brock's appearance at UFC 200 and the potential WWE fallout of which so I merged them.


Personally don't think a loss in UFC will hurt Brock too much in WWE unless he is badly injured. If anything it might get people curious about how he will react to the loss when he appears on WWE TV, what they will do to make him look like even more of a monster on his return and in doing so who will he murder (not lierally) ?

Monokne

If Hunt knocks Brock cold, that will negatively affect his aura in pro wrestling.

With his original return, he was coming off two losses but there was a sense of jubilance that we wrestling fans took our guy back, and the legitimacy he'd earned by going 4-3 in UFC along with booking him strong bar the loss to Cena really made him feel special. The idea that he could get knocked out on the biggest and most publicised show in UFC history and then walk back on to WWE TV and play an unstoppable killer 2 weeks later and the fanbase won't view him in anyway differently is completely counter-intuitive, particularly in an era when the fanbase is diminished largely to the hardcores who are much more in tune with the reality behind their performers than at any time in WWE history.

Straight Edge Punk

Monokne wrote: »

If Hunt knocks Brock cold, that will negatively affect his aura in pro wrestling.

With his original return, he was coming off two losses but there was a sense of jubilance that we wrestling fans took our guy back, and the legitimacy he'd earned by going 4-3 in UFC along with booking him strong bar the loss to Cena really made him feel special. The idea that he could get knocked out on the biggest and most publicised show in UFC history and then walk back on to WWE TV and play an unstoppable killer 2 weeks later and the fanbase won't view him in anyway differently is completely counter-intuitive, particularly in an era when the fanbase is diminished largely to the hardcores who are much more in tune with the reality behind their performers than at any time in WWE history.

This is exactly how I feel.

Lord TSC

We go on about people saying "You do know WWE isn't real" and laugh at them, yet we're worried Brock losing a UFC fight would make him less "credible" in WWE?

Brock's credibility will be based on what he does in WWE, and nowhere else. Specifically, it will be based on how WWE book him afterwards. Bryan spent 15 months losing to everyone, being in **** stories, and yet the fans were happy to get behind him once booked at the top of the card. Ambrose and Ziggler are jobbers for all intents and purposes, but if they seriously got behind them tomorrow and pushed them like threats, the fans would get behind them quickly as well.

If WWE present him as a credible threat (which they have always done with Brock), then his credibility won't be hurt one iota inside a WWE ring. Even if he gets KO'd within seconds in the octagon, if he marches out the next night and murders some guys in the ring, everyone will forget about what happened on, essentially, another program to another character. Sure, there'll be people who bring it up, but for the casuals and the majority of other fans, the loss would be an utter non-factor. Especially if WWE go down the route of ignoring it, I'd wager a large majority of the audience would never even know it happened.

Cianan2

Monokne wrote: »

If Hunt knocks Brock cold, that will negatively affect his aura in pro wrestling.

If he loses to Hunt, have him come out and just want to take his anger and frustration out on whoever gets in his way in the WWE ring...

DM_7

Lord TSC wrote: »

We go on about people saying "You do know WWE isn't real" and laugh at them, yet we're worried Brock losing a UFC fight would make him less "credible" in WWE?

Brock's credibility will be based on what he does in WWE, and nowhere else. Specifically, it will be based on how WWE book him afterwards. Bryan spent 15 months losing to everyone, being in **** stories, and yet the fans were happy to get behind him once booked at the top of the card. Ambrose and Ziggler are jobbers for all intents and purposes, but if they seriously got behind them tomorrow and pushed them like threats, the fans would get behind them quickly as well.

If WWE present him as a credible threat (which they have always done with Brock), then his credibility won't be hurt one iota inside a WWE ring. Even if he gets KO'd within seconds in the octagon, if he marches out the next night and murders some guys in the ring, everyone will forget about what happened on, essentially, another program to another character. Sure, there'll be people who bring it up, but for the casuals and the majority of other fans, the loss would be an utter non-factor. Especially if WWE go down the route of ignoring it, I'd wager a large majority of the audience would never even know it happened.

Big Show, Kane and Reigns prove they can't make people accept guys if the fans have a predetermined reason not to believe in them.

One of the main reasons people buy into Brock now is because they believe he is a monster, that status is predetermined by what people know and expect of him. If he is well beaten the edge is taken away and he would need to be out of sight for a while before people will pop when they see him again

The only difference between the likes of us and casual fans is the level of detail they will go into to follow the WWE. Almost everyone going to a WWE show will know how Brocks fight went through sports news, social media etc.

ERG89

Cianan2 wrote: »

If he loses to Hunt, have him come out and just want to take his anger and frustration out on whoever gets in his way in the WWE ring...

Hopefully Byran Saxton because I can't say Stephanie.
Don't see how Brock losing his aura by possibly losing to a top heavyweight after over 4 years out. He should be admired for taking this fight.
He can still always say he was a UFC Heavyweight champ, he still looks huge, intimidating and stands out from anyone else they have.
The WWE handled him poorly since he lost the WWE title tho. Losing to Taker with that dumb finish, the Rollins feud, the Wyatt fiasco, putting him in the Rumble & his feud with Ambrose who carries himself like more of a cartoon character than a threat

Mr.Nice Guy

I can't fathom how people can think a humbling loss for Brock in UFC, i.e. early knock-out, or especially a tap out, couldn't affect his aura in WWE.

He has been presented as superhuman ever since he beat the streak. All the early booking decisions like the losses to Cena and HHH were undone with that and ever since then he has been protected unlike anyone else.

The idea that Brock can go to UFC 200, get beat decisively, and come back to WWE and be the same 'beast', the same 'conqueror', is not realistic imo. That's the sort of mindset that we usually criticize Vince McMahon for, i.e. that only stuff in WWE counts and everything else outside, whether it be New Japan, or UFC, is irrelevant.

If Brock taps out to Hunt, and then beats up the entire Raw roster a few weeks later, it won't rehabilitate Brock since the only way for Brock to get his aura back would be to beat the guy that beat him. And Hunt is not going to do a job to Brock in WWE. If Brock hypothetically destroys the entire Raw locker room it doesn't get his aura back; rather, it simply hammers home the message that no one in WWE can stand up to the guy that was humbled on UFC.

I'd also like to point out when Ronda Rousey stepped into a WWE ring at Wrestlemania she got a gigantic pop, and that credibility came from fans knowing her career in UFC, and not anything WWE did. That tells you that the WWE audience is well aware of matters outside the supposed WWE universe.

WWE have protected Brock very well since the streak's end and now they are in a situation where they cannot protect him. It is out of their hands. This fight is a total risk to years of careful booking strategies. Of course, if Brock wins, his stock rises, while if he loses on a controversial split-decision then his stock is likely to remain about the same; but if he gets roundly beaten in there, the superhuman monster shtick will be kaput, and at best you will have the Brock Lesnar that you had prior to the streak being beaten. An attraction certainly, and a force above everything else on the roster, but no longer the seemingly invincible destroyer.

Lord TSC

DM_7 wrote: »

Big Show, Kane and Reigns prove they can't make people accept guys if the fans have a predetermined reason not to believe in them.

Fair point, though I think Brock's natural charisma will be the difference there; Kane and Reigns have the charisma of a brick.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I can't fathom how people can think a humbling loss for Brock in UFC, i.e. early knock-out, or especially a tap out, couldn't affect his aura in WWE.

I'd also like to point out when Ronda Rousey stepped into a WWE ring at Wrestlemania she got a gigantic pop, and that credibility came from fans knowing her career in UFC, and not anything WWE did. That tells you that the WWE audience is well aware of matters outside the supposed WWE universe.

Quoting the two relevant paragraphs, but I guess my belief then isn't so much that people won't know about a loss. It's that, ultimately, I don't think they'll care. I think the majority of fans who will hear about it will be able to distinguish between "Brock the character" and "Brock the man", and that if/when Brock loses, the second he shows back up on Raw, has Heyman cut a promo and then murder someone, they'll just move on with it. I think the majority of fans will be able to say "Hey, this guy went and tried to be a real fighter, in spite of a massive amount of time, and in spite of being pitted against a far bigger guy, fair play. Now, back to Supplex City please!"

WWE fans have, for years, been conditioned to believe that wins and losses aren't something to be worried about at all, and a loss in the UFC just won't be that big a deal once WWE book him strong the next time he shows up.

Monokne

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I can't fathom how people can think a humbling loss for Brock in UFC, i.e. early knock-out, or especially a tap out, couldn't affect his aura in WWE.

He has been presented as superhuman ever since he beat the streak. All the early booking decisions like the losses to Cena and HHH were undone with that and ever since then he has been protected unlike anyone else.

The idea that Brock can go to UFC 200, get beat decisively, and come back to WWE and be the same 'beast', the same 'conqueror', is not realistic imo. That's the sort of mindset that we usually criticize Vince McMahon for, i.e. that only stuff in WWE counts and everything else outside, whether it be New Japan, or UFC, is irrelevant.

If Brock taps out to Hunt, and then beats up the entire Raw roster a few weeks later, it won't rehabilitate Brock since the only way for Brock to get his aura back would be to beat the guy that beat him. And Hunt is not going to do a job to Brock in WWE. If Brock hypothetically destroys the entire Raw locker room it doesn't get his aura back; rather, it simply hammers home the message that no one in WWE can stand up to the guy that was humbled on UFC.

I'd also like to point out when Ronda Rousey stepped into a WWE ring at Wrestlemania she got a gigantic pop, and that credibility came from fans knowing her career in UFC, and not anything WWE did. That tells you that the WWE audience is well aware of matters outside the supposed WWE universe.

WWE have protected Brock very well since the streak's end and now they are in a situation where they cannot protect him. It is out of their hands. This fight is a total risk to years of careful booking strategies. Of course, if Brock wins, his stock rises, while if he loses on a controversial split-decision then his stock is likely to remain about the same; but if he gets roundly beaten in there, the superhuman monster shtick will be kaput, and at best you will have the Brock Lesnar that you had prior to the streak being beaten. An attraction certainly, and a force above everything else on the roster, but no longer the seemingly invincible destroyer.

It genuinely absolutely stuns me that there are people who think Brock could get knocked unconscious on July 7, and show up on Raw 9 days later with the same aura. It doesn't feel to me like it is hard to work out but it is amusing seeing the knots people will tie themselves into to justify their opinions when they get the nagging feeling that they were wrong in the first place.

Chain Smoker

What's Austin had to say about how brick losing might affect him in wwe? I feel like he'd have a really good breakdown of it all, how wwe can minimise the damage, etc.

SureYWouldntYa

https://twitter.com/jeremybotter/status/743815460043423745

Wonder will he do his little jiggy dance and have the pyro go off

Or have Heyman with him on the walkout?

Depp

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jeremybotter/status/743815460043423745

Wonder will he do his little jiggy dance and have the pyro go off

Or have Heyman with him on the walkout?

hopefully he'll have Heyman there at any press conferences at least, can you imagine

LeeJM

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jeremybotter/status/743815460043423745

Wonder will he do his little jiggy dance and have the pyro go off

Or have Heyman with him on the walkout?

The booing of that music in Vegas will be glorious! Brock is the greatest heel in MMA history. If he has his WWE music its gonna be amazing. Throw in Heyman, Shane and HHH at cageside, Joe Rogan saying "well, here comes the pain". CAN.NOT.WAIT :D:D:D:D:D

Depp

LeeJM wrote: »

The booing of that music in Vegas will be glorious! Brock is the greatest heel in MMA history. If he has his WWE music its gonna be amazing. Throw in Heyman, Shane and HHH at cageside, Joe Rogan saying "well, here comes the pain". CAN.NOT.WAIT :D:D:D:D:D

that and have Michael cole sit in between Joe and Goldie aswel

Agent Coulson

If Heyman on the mic walks him out I might just explode.

Lithium93_

During the UFC 200 Media Call, Brock was asked if he thought a loss would affect his WWE drawing power..

Brock's response "I really don't give a ****."

The rest of the media call is here if anyone wants to listen..

A Rogue Hobo

Jon Jones has been stung for doping and the Jones vs Cormier fight is officially cancelled. Lesnar/Hunt is now the main event. While Dana and the rest of the UFC are probably furious (and probably be washing their hands of Jones for good this time) this could not have worked out better for Lesnar, Vince and the WWE.

martyos121

A landmark UFC event headlined by a WWE contracted megastar?

Angron

When you say wash their hands of him for good this time, was he caught out on this before as well?

JinkyJackson

Angron wrote:

When you say wash their hands of him for good this time, was he caught out on this before as well?

He has a bit of a colourful past, put it that way. Google him

ERG89

Angron wrote: »

When you say wash their hands of him for good this time, was he caught out on this before as well?

UFC won't wash their hands of him, nor was him pulling out a good thing for Lesnar. Less buys means less money. It'll still draw over 1m but won't go as high as projected.

SureYWouldntYa

Angron wrote: »

When you say wash their hands of him for good this time, was he caught out on this before as well?

He was done for coke before, but was he was done for this time has to be a ped

Angron

Either way, that's two big money fights gone from 200, this and then McGregor's.

martyos121

Angron wrote: »

Either way, that's two big money fights gone from 200, this and then McGregor's.

The McGregor one worked out nicely for them though, without going into too much detail (since it's a thread about Lesnar), they'd make a lot more money having him headline a different card to UFC 200.