How to reduce 2-bed apartment electricity bills?

ivorystraws

djimi wrote: »

How much are you expecting to pay for your electricity? I think you need to adjust your expectations a bit and understand that your electricity bill includes the cost of heating your house in winter; if you were using oil or gas you would probably end up paying a couple of hundred quid every two months on top of an ESB bill for €100-€150, so youre not really that much out of pocket, if any at all.

How much was your electricity bill during the summer when presumably you had no heating turned on?

I'm expecting to pay about the same rate or a little higher than other 2-bed apartments who also have storage heating. How is it too much to expect to pay approximately the same as them. The people we've compared to literally have half the bills we have so yes, we are out of pocket. Although all that being said, it could mostly be due to the old appliances here and the really bad energy rating of 'E'.

Del2005

ivorystraws wrote: »

Well it doesn't seem to be the electric storage heater that's a major problem. The problem is what's using the majority of the electricity units?

I've tried Cuddleworths suggestion with results as previously mentioned.

I rent this apartment so I would think that the landlord will be very unresponsive to disconnecting the new storage heater with the proposal to use a gas or electric halogen heater.

As far as I can see from tracking the meter and monitoring usage of various appliances, it would seem to be either the immersion or fridge that's using the bulk of the units. The reason for this is that approximately 5 (day) units were used between 11pm last night and 9:30am this morning. The only electrical appliances on were the immersion (for 50 minutes on 'sink' in the morning), lights this morning and the fridge all night.

There's something wrong with your meters. It should automatically switch to night rate and use zero day rate during night time, between 11 & 8 in winter and 12 & 9 during summer.

I know of someone who had their meter wired the other way, running night rate during the day, and got a nasty bill.

Are you using the washing machine during the day? Every high electricity using device should be used on night rate.

maddragon

20 kwh per night is close enough to my 16 kwh approximation. However I forgot to take the cheaper night rate into account so my 173eur is too high. The fact remains that the storage heater is your biggest consumer at 20x7 = 140 kwh per week. The immersion will be the second biggest and if your timers are not calibrated properly some of these units will be consumed during the peak period ie. after 8am in the morning until 11pm at night.

Unless the fridge is malfunctioning and the seals are broken it will be using about 2-3kWh per day. Also most modern washing machines use less than 2kWh per cycle.

ivorystraws

Del2005 wrote: »

There's something wrong with your meters. It should automatically switch to night rate and use zero day rate during night time, between 11 & 8 in winter and 12 & 9 during summer.

I know of someone who had their meter wired the other way, running night rate during the day, and got a nasty bill.

Are you using the washing machine during the day? Every high electricity using device should be used on night rate.

I understand what you're saying but AFAIK, we would have to get a seperate night rate meter in (as discussed in this boards thread)

We could still get our meter checked just in case there is something wrong with it.

No, the washing machine is on in the evening and at weekends but it won't matter to us since all appliances are metered on the day rate, regardless of what time they are used. We only have two billed rates: Night time storage unit rate and 24 hour unit rate.

ivorystraws

maddragon wrote: »

20 kwh per night is close enough to my 16 kwh approximation. However I forgot to take the cheaper night rate into account so my 173eur is too high. The fact remains that the storage heater is your biggest consumer at 20x7 = 140 kwh per week. The immersion will be the second biggest and if your timers are not calibrated properly some of these units will be consumed during the peak period ie. after 8am in the morning until 11pm at night.

Unless the fridge is malfunctioning and the seals are broken it will be using about 2-3kWh per day. Also most modern washing machines use less than 2kWh per cycle.

Yes, you're right, the storage heater is probably the biggest consumer of electricity for us (especially when it's set to higher inputs) but we obviously need it for heat and for drying clothes.

The immersion would seem to be the second biggest but units for this will be consumed at the 24 hour rate, regardless of when it's used.

Well we can't turn off the fridge but thanks for the approximate usage and again, we can probably reduce the number of washes the washing machine does but it doesn't matter (in our case) what time it's on at.

Since we are out of contract with BORD Gais, I will look into moving to ESB to see if we can avail of that night rate meter.

maddragon

If you have an A rated fridge it will probably use even less than the figure quoted above. For example I have a 6 ft high fidge freezer and it uses about 1.5 kWh per day. However, I've seen malfunctioning fridges use 10 or more kWh per day

Get that energy monitor mentioned previously. They are about 15eur in Maplin if I recall and are very easy to use.

djimi

ivorystraws wrote: »

I'm expecting to pay about the same rate or a little higher than other 2-bed apartments who also have storage heating. How is it too much to expect to pay approximately the same as them. The people we've compared to literally have half the bills we have so yes, we are out of pocket. Although all that being said, it could mostly be due to the old appliances here and the really bad energy rating of 'E'.

I asked before, but how much were your bills during the summer without the heating turned on?

ivorystraws

maddragon wrote: »

If you have an A rated fridge it will probably use even less than the figure quoted above. For example I have a 6 ft high fidge freezer and it uses about 1.5 kWh per day. However, I've seen malfunctioning fridges use 10 or more kWh per day

Get that energy monitor mentioned previously. They are about 15eur in Maplin if I recall and are very easy to use.

I very much doubt and I'd even bet that the fridge in this apartment is A rated. It's old, the bottom shelf is broken and it leaks water from the freezer.

I definitely do intend to get that energy monitor though.

ivorystraws

djimi wrote: »

I asked before, but how much were your bills during the summer without the heating turned on?

I know what you asked and I've already told you, the heating is on not only to heat the one room but also to dry clothes. Obviously the bills are cheaper in summer but they're still twice as expensive as other 2 bed apartments that we compared ours with.

Trevster

Hi guys. I'm thinking of moving into a 2-bed apartment by myself. Got a good deal rent wise- €60 a week. I'm just wondering, even with careful usage, are my bills going to be high regardless?

Sarn

Have you given the calculator on ESB's site a go to get a rough idea on the costs associated with each appliance?

Appliance calculator

djimi

ivorystraws wrote: »

I know what you asked and I've already told you, the heating is on not only to heat the one room but also to dry clothes. Obviously the bills are cheaper in summer but they're still twice as expensive as other 2 bed apartments that we compared ours with.

Are they twice as expensive during the summer as well as during the winter?

hibby

Trevster wrote: »

Hi guys. I'm thinking of moving into a 2-bed apartment by myself. Got a good deal rent wise- €60 a week. I'm just wondering, even with careful usage, are my bills going to be high regardless?

Well, at the end of the day you pay for what you use, so it really just depends on what you consider high.

The best way to think about it is, appliances with a heating element use a lot of electricity. Immersion heaters use 3 kW, electric showers 9 kW (but for a shorter time), electric heating is an absolute killer. Washing machines, kettles, electric driers all use multiple kW of electricity.

Compared to these, items like lights, laptops, TVs are relatively insignificant. You could leave a light on all day for the price of running a shower for 10 minutes.

I'm not saying you should be wasteful or use anything gratuitously, just that if you want to save electricity and reduce your bill you need to concentrate your efforts on the first category.

Del2005

ivorystraws wrote: »

I understand what you're saying but AFAIK, we would have to get a seperate night rate meter in (as discussed in this boards thread)

We could still get our meter checked just in case there is something wrong with it.

No, the washing machine is on in the evening and at weekends but it won't matter to us since all appliances are metered on the day rate, regardless of what time they are used. We only have two billed rates: Night time storage unit rate and 24 hour unit rate.

I'm in an apartment and it has a dual meter. How do they know how much night rate you're using if there's only one meter?

If your getting night rate for your storage heaters then everything else running at night should also be on night rate. There's only one electricity feed into your apartment!

If it's costing so much for electric can you move?

djimi

Del2005 wrote: »

I'm in an apartment and it has a dual meter. How do they know how much night rate you're using if there's only one meter?

If your getting night rate for your storage heaters then everything else running at night should also be on night rate. There's only one electricity feed into your apartment!

If it's costing so much for electric can you move?

Ive seen that before where there is night rates only for storage heaters. Ive no idea how it works tbh but its not uncommon afaik.

kraggy

How does day/night differential work?

Does a meter have a clock so that when it strikes midnight (or 11pm) that the electricity going through after that time will be charged at a lower rate?

Or how does it work? (assuming there's only one meter)

mari2222

You might need to re-test over a longer timeframe, to see if the meter moves although everything is "off".

Could you turn it off in the morning (going out) and back on in the evening?

Your bills are very very very high, so I guess the "usage" is not just your place - something else is in play.

Have you looked at the usage pattern on the bills? Is it steady or going up or down?

Mr. Presentable

Anything that heats water is heavy to run. If there are only two of you you should be able to cut the washing machine usage in half.

The ESB used to offer a free power usage survey, maybe they still do.

afkasurfjunkie

those bills do seem rather high. just to compare. we are also in a 2 bed apt. heating is electric and our nov/dec bill was about 150e. our biggest bill was last year during the cold snap and i dont think it went over 250e. we use the washing machine about 5 times a week. dont have a dryer or dishwasher. use the kettle to heat water for dishes in the sink and use immersion for showers. tv is on from 4 til 10/11 on weekdays along with a playstation at times and laptop is used for that length of time too. only 2 heaters in the apt are used. the one in the bedroom is on a timer from 6.30-9.00am and 10pm-11.30pm and in the living area it does the nighttime heaty up thing. apt is generally warm too. we didnt turn on the heat until nov this year because it was so mild. the bill for sept/oct was 90e.

Del2005

ivorystraws wrote: »

I know what you asked and I've already told you, the heating is on not only to heat the one room but also to dry clothes. Obviously the bills are cheaper in summer but they're still twice as expensive as other 2 bed apartments that we compared ours with.

Are you using the storage heater to dry clothes in the summer? A dryer would pay for itself in a few months. With the storage heaters you're 1st heating a load of bricks and then some heat comes out. With a quality A++ dryer you'd have dry clothes for less than the cost of heating the bricks.

ProudDUB

kraggy wrote: »

How does day/night differential work?

Does a meter have a clock so that when it strikes midnight (or 11pm) that the electricity going through after that time will be charged at a lower rate?

Or how does it work? (assuming there's only one meter)

Yep, that is how it works. There is only one meter, but it will have two gauges. One that reads the day time usage and one that reads the night time usage. If you look at the front of the meter you can see the 2 separate readings on each gauge. They are marked which is which so you can keep track of it yourself if you want to.

ivorystraws

Sarn wrote: »

Have you given the calculator on ESB's site a go to get a rough idea on the costs associated with each appliance?

Appliance calculator

No, I've purchased the plug-in electricity cost monitor from maplins as earlier suggested.

ivorystraws

djimi wrote: »

Are they twice as expensive during the summer as well as during the winter?

Yes.

ivorystraws

Del2005 wrote: »

I'm in an apartment and it has a dual meter. How do they know how much night rate you're using if there's only one meter?

If your getting night rate for your storage heaters then everything else running at night should also be on night rate. There's only one electricity feed into your apartment!

If it's costing so much for electric can you move?

I've already mentioned that we get billed for 24 hour units and storage units so obviously there's two meters.

We are moving but this may get legal.

ivorystraws

mari2222 wrote: »

You might need to re-test over a longer timeframe, to see if the meter moves although everything is "off".

Could you turn it off in the morning (going out) and back on in the evening?

Your bills are very very very high, so I guess the "usage" is not just your place - something else is in play.

Have you looked at the usage pattern on the bills? Is it steady or going up or down?

I've already tested with electricity off for 20 minutes and nothing moved. Testing over 12 hours will mean the fridge will have to be emptied.

We've gotten the 24 hour unit usage down to half by simply being electrical socket nazi's. Immersion, oven and washing machine were the biggest culprits. Storage heater used more than double the units weekly than the electrical appliances but at under half the unit price.

ivorystraws

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Anything that heats water is heavy to run. If there are only two of you you should be able to cut the washing machine usage in half.

The ESB used to offer a free power usage survey, maybe they still do.

I can measure the usage of power and cut power hungry appliances back but we finally got the BER cert back and it's an 'F' rated apartment so any heat is literally dissappearing out through the walls and windows.

ivorystraws

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

those bills do seem rather high. just to compare. we are also in a 2 bed apt. heating is electric and our nov/dec bill was about 150e. our biggest bill was last year during the cold snap and i dont think it went over 250e. we use the washing machine about 5 times a week. dont have a dryer or dishwasher. use the kettle to heat water for dishes in the sink and use immersion for showers. tv is on from 4 til 10/11 on weekdays along with a playstation at times and laptop is used for that length of time too. only 2 heaters in the apt are used. the one in the bedroom is on a timer from 6.30-9.00am and 10pm-11.30pm and in the living area it does the nighttime heaty up thing. apt is generally warm too. we didnt turn on the heat until nov this year because it was so mild. the bill for sept/oct was 90e.

Thank you! That's a great comparison. Only difference is we only use the storage heater in the living room now as it's pointless to heat an 'F' rated apartment rooms when we don't feel the effect. Everything else is similar to what we do re: kettle for washing up etc but our bills seem to be at least double yours!!

ivorystraws

Del2005 wrote: »

Are you using the storage heater to dry clothes in the summer? A dryer would pay for itself in a few months. With the storage heaters you're 1st heating a load of bricks and then some heat comes out. With a quality A++ dryer you'd have dry clothes for less than the cost of heating the bricks.

I know that as I've installed storage heaters before with electricians plus I helped install the one in this apartment. You're right in what you say but we're back to the ignorant/lying landlord again!

We're moving out anyway.

M007

I recall seeing a thread about potential problem with high bills due to incorrect piping in apartments - does anyone have the link to the thread as I can't find it here.

How would you know if there was a seperate meter for the communal lighting in the hallway?

borderlinemeath

Del2005 wrote: »

Are you using the storage heater to dry clothes in the summer? A dryer would pay for itself in a few months. With the storage heaters you're 1st heating a load of bricks and then some heat comes out. With a quality A++ dryer you'd have dry clothes for less than the cost of heating the bricks.

And landlords are meant to supply a clothes dryer in apartments as there is no outside space to dry clothes.


http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=new%20minimum%20standards%20for%20rental%20property&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.environ.ie%2Fen%2FPublications%2FDevelopmentandHousing%2FHousing%2FFileDownLoad%2C19428%2Cen.pdf&ei=P1pCT5vfMIbChAeRk7jXBQ&usg=AFQjCNE1E_fSR77EOXe_Zzq5vjShIOsZgQ

OP, glad to hear your moving. The way you're having to monitor your electricity usage is no way to live. At least now with all your experiences you will know to ask for the BER rating of potential accommodation before signing on the dotted line.