Leo Varadkar doesn't think referendums are very democratic

Chucky the tree

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Did you vote in the last election?

Yes. I'm not of the opinion that every political party is terrible and couldn't manage a piss up in a brewery though.

Captain Darling

Chucky the tree wrote: »

If I didn't think a party could manage a piss up in a brewry I simply wouldn't vote. Then again consider the things people knock them for it's pretty clear the electorate are fairly stupid aswell. The fact Noonan is bashed for his emmigration comments say it all, most people just get their information from a headline.

The issue here isnt about the stupidity of the electorate. Its about the government not trusting the very electrorate who voted them in. It doesnt make us idiots, it shows our elected representatives to be spineless political cowards who have no understanding of where the root cause of all our problems have come from.

Very simple really. :rolleyes:

mikom

Chucky the tree wrote: »

The fact Noonan is bashed for his emmigration comments say it all, most people just get their information from a headline.

Something Fine gaels well paid PR coaches should be well aware of.
Yet the "open to interpretation clangers" are being dropped on a daily basis.

Well done lads............. way to breed confidence.

Batsy

Captain Darling wrote: »

Democracy is not democratic.

Yes, it is. What you've just said is like saying that red is not very reddish.

Chucky the tree

Captain Darling wrote: »

The issue here isnt about the stupidity of the electorate. Its about the government not trusting the very electrorate who voted them in. It doesnt make us idiots, it shows our elected representatives to be spineless political cowards who have no understanding of where the root cause of all our problems have come from.

Very simple really. :rolleyes:

The know what the cause of the problem is, but they know the electorate will us that cause to vote no in a completely unrelated referendum.

mikom wrote: »

Something Fine gaels well paid PR coaches should be well aware of.
Yet the "open to interpretation clangers" are being dropped on a daily basis.

Well done lads............. way to breed confidence.

I do agree with these, I just think it's shame they need PR coaches because a vast majority of people are to thick/lazy to read past a headline.

Liam Byrne

Captain Darling wrote: »

Chucky the tree wrote: »

If I didn't think a party could manage a piss up in a brewry I simply wouldn't vote. Then again consider the things people knock them for it's pretty clear the electorate are fairly stupid aswell. The fact Noonan is bashed for his emmigration comments say it all, most people just get their information from a headline.

The issue here isnt about the stupidity of the electorate. Its about the government not trusting the very electrorate who voted them in. It doesnt make us idiots, it shows our elected representatives to be spineless political cowards who have no understanding of where the root cause of all our problems have come from.

Very simple really. :rolleyes:

It's also about the many u-turns and out-and-out deceit.

If we don't vote, we're wrong
If we don't believe what they tell us, we're
wrong
If we believe what they say before an election, we're called naive and wrong
If we then refuse to believe anything else they tell us as a result of being naive/conned, we're wrong

When the f#%k are THEY wrong ?

My name is URL

"Democracy means government by discussion, but it is only effective if you can stop people talking."

Nothingbetter2d

Bambi wrote: »

Moore street is mostly full of blacks and chinese, I just presumed you were prejudiced against them. they havent a f**king clue either by your standards so I would imagine you should be grand sneering at them too

lol there is no less than 10 moblie phone unlocking shops on moore street... plus a few more on parnell street and in the ilac centre.... how on earth do anyone of them make enough money to be profitable?

mikom

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I do agree with these, I just think it's shame they need PR coaches because a vast majority of people are to thick/lazy to read past a headline.

Or during the state of the nation address......

"European flag in shot?.... check"
"Ok Enda, hands clasped tightly to the front, wedding ring to the fore to show you are a family man"
"Now tilt your head to the side to emote compassion, just try to think of when Bambi's mum died"
"Now repeat after me"........ "ye are nat te blame"

Shit makes me sick, so fake.

siltirocker

Captain Darling wrote: »

How do you know they are all ignorant? You're taking a leaf out of Twatdkars buke.

Jesus, i'd fight with my toe nails this morning. :D

Just from experience doing stories about Lisbon. We dealt with a bunch of women I know from my youth that use to come down for the races every year.

When we correlated the people's opinion we spent time with said women on Moore Street.

We had to scrap the footage because it was embarassing. The most highly opinionated people with dealt with gan dach ach also the most shockingly ill informed.

Forming unpopular opinions on people I know has somehow made me racist, bigotted, a snob x 3 and ignorant to strangers. Boards.ie you win again.

Captain Darling

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's also about the many u-turns and out-and-out deceit.

If we don't vote, we're wrong
If we don't believe what they tell us, we're
wrong
If we believe what they say before an election, we're called naive and wrong
If we then refuse to believe anything else they tell us as a result of being naive/conned, we're wrong

When the f#%k are THEY wrong ?

They are never wrong. Now bend over and take it up the gicker like a good lad.

Captain Darling

siltirocker wrote: »

Just from experience doing stories about Lisbon. We dealt with a bunch of women I know from my youth that use to come down for the races every year.

When we correlated the people's opinion we spent time with said women on Moore Street.

We had to scrap the footage because it was embarassing. The most highly opinionated people with dealt with gan dach ach also the most shockingly ill informed.

Forming unpopular opinions on people I know has somehow made me racist, bigotted, a snob x 3 and ignorant to strangers. Boards.ie you win again.

Not at all, you should have expanded on what you said is all.

Generalisations are the rocks on which you will flounder on in this kip.

Son Of A Vidic

The_Minister wrote: »

It's not fair to take one line out of context and go ballistic without considering the rest of his remarks, which explain what he said.

Which of course in no way mitigates the incredible stupidity of what he actually said. Just when you thought you heard it all from the muppets, along comes another priceless nugget.

Nesie

The topic started being about whether a referendum is democratic and quickly got onto what civil servants etc and a general rant about the government. Would ye like to prove his point for him???

sensibleken

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's also about the many u-turns and out-and-out deceit.

If we don't vote, we're wrong
If we don't believe what they tell us, we're
wrong
If we believe what they say before an election, we're called naive and wrong
If we then refuse to believe anything else they tell us as a result of being naive/conned, we're wrong

When the f#%k are THEY wrong ?

When it comes to referenda it doesnt matter what they or anyone else says. It is up to you to inform yourself and make up your own mind. Even if that means studying a treaty rather than reading an election poster

Captain Darling

Nesie wrote: »

The topic started being about whether a referendum is democratic and quickly got onto what civil servants etc and a general rant about the government. Would ye like to prove his point for him???

It further reflects the disdain and aloofness the government feels about the electorate, so i think raising those things are valid. The government is shirking its responsibilty and blaming us for causing this situation, as exemplified last week by Kenny and then Varadkar comes out with this nugget. Are they living in cloud cuckoo land?

Its a further example of how they think it is entirely the general publics fault for what happened. Is this not worthy of discussion?

Morlar

If I didn't know better I'd say he is laying the ground work for a 2nd refferendum in the event that a first one is required and is rejected by the electorate.

siltirocker

Nesie wrote: »

The topic started being about whether a referendum is democratic and quickly got onto what civil servants etc and a general rant about the government. Would ye like to prove his point for him???

Well a lot of people are. . . thus . . . he does have a point. Unpopular or not, it's seems a large number (here anyway) agree so who are to tell him to shush.

Captain Darling

Morlar wrote: »

If I didn't know better I'd say he is laying the ground work for a 2nd refferendum in the event that a first one is required and is rejected by the electorate.

And we better vote the right way the second time...:rolleyes:

Captain Darling

Furthermore, what is wrong with a protest vote???

Sure look, we'll all vote yes, lie down like the beaten dogs we are and get more and more austerity measures shoved down our throats until we are totally choked and broken.

At least in Greece they took to the streets. What have we done here? Protested about SOPA...

sbsquarepants

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No democracy is fine if people vote with the best interest at heart, even if that means no. However voting no just because the government raised VAT etc is just stupid.

Peoples reasons are there own, who are you to say your reasoning is more valid, or more worthy of a vote than theirs - that's not how a democracy works.

faceman wrote: »

The out of context comments dont really make sense. Just because people will vote against for treaty for "the wrong reasons", doesn't make voting any less democratic than voting for "the right reasons".

Exactly. It's arrogance in the extreme to claim that your own vote is fine, but other peoples were a waste. If i want to vote for Enda cos i like his voice, or lucinda cos i like her tits, that's my business, no one else has ANY say in how i vote. That's what makes a democracy democratic.

Happyman42 wrote: »

If you propose a motion in a referendum then it is up to you to see it carried, by explaining said motion and advocating it properly. If you fail, you fail, you cannot blame anybody but yourself and or, the motion. That is how it works, there is no other way.
Varadkar and his co-horts will graduate fascist school with flying colours.

Once a blue shirt, always a blue shirt. It didn't take long for their true colours to shine through.

siltirocker wrote: »

I am being called ignorant. . . to ignorant people. **** 'em that's what I say.

In a perfect world people would take exams before referendums to prove they actually know what they are on about. Voting for INDA cause "he has a nice smile", "is a nice lad" or cause he told you a funny joke in pub in Achill one time is retarded IMO. Just as shooting down a referendum cause you don't like the person delivering it. If the Dominos lad shagged my wife. . . it doesn't mean I'm going to stop eating pizza.

That's your opinion and you're fully entitled to it. What you're not entitled to do is impose it on others. Their reason for voting may well seem retarded to you, but since when do you get to choose?

And anyway, it's gavin from auto glass you want to watch out for, he's mad to inject your wifes crack with his special resin. The dominoes guy doesn't even fancy her, i think he's gay.

Captain Darling

sbsquarepants wrote: »

And anyway, it's gavin from auto glass you want to watch out for, he's mad to inject your wifes crack with his special resin. The dominoes guy doesn't even fancy her, i think he's gay.

Cut of a rapist about Gavin. Just like our man Leo. :pac:

mikom

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYtc90v2PzCvq0kqhJMEzLei6iNQvecrpqmUp5RVgcrdRU6SNpqDS2a7g5XA

sbsquarepants

"All Irish people believe that a man's house is his castle. It is morally unjust and unfair to tax a person's home"
Enda Kenny in the Dail (1994)

"Give me the full whack for that pension there, sure amn't I teaching the last 34 years, honest to god I am" Enda Kenny - collecting his well deserved teachers pension (2012)

Ceist_Beag

Captain Darling wrote: »

This is the type of elitist politico bullsh1t i would expect to hear from a dyed in the wool blueshirt supporter. Fcuking ridiculous.

Dont give the poor idiots a voice because its all their fault the country went to fcuk over the last fifteen years. Nothing to do with a system of institutionalised wastefulness and incompetency that is inherent amongst all the high ranking civil servants and from all sides of the idiots who we call our elected public representatives???

Go back to reading the fcuking Sunday Independent.

Eloquent Darling, what a well thought out response. At least you're consistent in your kneejerk reactionary rants! So let me see in my reply ridiculing your rants you deduct that I am a Fine Gael supporting Sunday Independent reader and that this discussion is not about the concerns of one minister over how recent referenda have been subject to lots of distracting noise, but rather that it is about how the political system in this country is in the toilet. I can see you're someone I would like to debate politics with over a few pints alright! :rolleyes:
P.s. I could ask you to return to reading some red tops but that would be a cheap shot!

Captain Darling

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

Eloquent Darling, what a well thought out response. At least you're consistent in your kneejerk reactionary rants! So let me see in my reply ridiculing your rants you deduct that I am a Fine Gael supporting Sunday Independent reader and that this discussion is not about the concerns of one minister over how recent referenda have been subject to lots of distracting noise, but rather that it is about how the political system in this country is in the toilet. I can see you're someone I would like to debate politics with over a few pints alright! :rolleyes:
P.s. I could ask you to return to reading some red tops but that would be a cheap shot!

And what exactly is your point then? You provide a comment in relation to what i have said but not an opinion on the topic.

Elucidate further because all i'm hearing is hot air, i've given my opinion which you have looked down your Coriolanian nose at.

sensibleken

Captain Darling wrote: »

Furthermore, what is wrong with a protest vote???

Sure look, we'll all vote yes, lie down like the beaten dogs we are and get more and more austerity measures shoved down our throats until we are totally choked and broken.

At least in Greece they took to the streets. What have we done here? Protested about SOPA...

Nothing wrong with it in principle but lets not cut off our nose to spite our face, lets actually see whats on the table first.

I happen to think that having a balanced budget is a good thing (call me mad) but ill see what punitive arangements are floated before i make up my mind.

Ceist_Beag

I think the very many replies on this thread suggesting we need a referendum just so the people can tell the government exactly what they think of them proves the very point being made by Minister Varadkar. That doesn't mean anyone who agrees is a blueshirt btw! But anyone who thinks that, should there be a referendum, it will be purely and simply a vote on the question put, is blinkered imho! The No campaign will be backed by all those either anti government, anti the Troika, anti the bondholders or any other disillusioned groups. No doubt the Yes campaign will be similarly distracting from the question put, using fear tactics about being out of the EU and such.
I do find it funny Darling that you accuse me of hot air - have a read back over your replies on this thread and count the number of profanities uttered and irrelevant points being made and tell me which of the two of us sounds more full of hot air.

Captain Darling

sensibleken wrote: »

Nothing wrong with it in principle but lets not cut off our nose to spite our face, lets actually see whats on the table first.

I happen to think that having a balanced budget is a good thing (call me mad) but ill see what punitive arangements are floated before i make up my mind.

Absolutely. Varadkars opinion galls me though. It is representative of the general malaise in the government whereby they seem to be distancing themselves from any responsibilty in relation to what has gone on.

The same with Kenny last week. I'm all for balanced referenda, but i believe Varadkars opinion reflects that of senior civil servants and most at the top table in the government, that we the general public were totally consumed by greed over the last decade or so, and that the current situation is our fault.

They are ignoring the fact that there was no proper regulation, poor management and a continued adherence to the Croke Park agreement. It is one ministers opinion, but it is definitely a reflection of the distain that our elected representatives have for us.

Happyman42

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I think the very many replies on this thread suggesting we need a referendum just so the people can tell the government exactly what they think of them proves the very point being made by Minister Varadkar. That doesn't mean anyone who agrees is a blueshirt btw! But anyone who thinks that, should there be a referendum, it will be purely and simply a vote on the question put, is blinkered imho! The No campaign will be backed by all those either anti government, anti the Troika, anti the bondholders or any other disillusioned groups. No doubt the Yes campaign will be similarly distracting from the question put, using fear tactics about being out of the EU and such.
I do find it funny Darling that you accuse me of hot air - have a read back over your replies on this thread and count the number of profanities uttered and irrelevant points being made and tell me which of the two of us sounds more full of hot air.

You can patronise all you want to try and get this through, but excuse me if I take the only oppurtunity presented to me to express my view that this government is doing the wrong thing.
Would you rather we went in there with hurleys and shotguns? :rolleyes:

Captain Darling

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I think the very many replies on this thread suggesting we need a referendum just so the people can tell the government exactly what they think of them proves the very point being made by Minister Varadkar. That doesn't mean anyone who agrees is a blueshirt btw! But anyone who thinks that, should there be a referendum, it will be purely and simply a vote on the question put, is blinkered imho! The No campaign will be backed by all those either anti government, anti the Troika, anti the bondholders or any other disillusioned groups. No doubt the Yes campaign will be similarly distracting from the question put, using fear tactics about being out of the EU and such.
I do find it funny Darling that you accuse me of hot air - have a read back over your replies on this thread and count the number of profanities uttered and irrelevant points being made and tell me which of the two of us sounds more full of hot air.

Captain Darling wrote: »

Absolutely. Varadkars opinion galls me though. It is representative of the general malaise in the government whereby they seem to be distancing themselves from any responsibilty in relation to what has gone on.

The same with Kenny last week. I'm all for balanced referenda, but i believe Varadkars opinion reflects that of senior civil servants and most at the top table in the government, that we the general public were totally consumed by greed over the last decade or so, and that the current situation is our fault.

They are ignoring the fact that there was no proper regulation, poor management and a continued adherence to the Croke Park agreement. It is one ministers opinion, but it is definitely a reflection of the distain that our elected representatives have for us.

That is where i'm coming from and i'll express myself however the fcuk i want. :rolleyes:

sensibleken

Happyman42 wrote: »

Would you rather we went in there with hurleys and shotguns? :rolleyes:

Can i just state that even though i dont want a referendum I have been advocating a hurley and shotgun/pitchfork and guillotine position since 2008.

Galtee

If the government was doing its job properly and lived up to the ante election promises then the zeitgeist would reflect this. Many of the FG advocates in here are trying to imply that people are just angry for no apparent reason, and that's simply not true. It's a shame really that it has all come to this. As a country we used to have our dignity, now we're an absolute joke the world over.

Tin Foil Hat

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Nope he is spot on. He knows people will vote it down just to get one over on the Government even if its in the countries best interests to pass it.

Absolute twaddle. If the people of this country didn't use the 2009 Lisbon Referendum to get one over on the FF led govenment of 2009 that bankrupted this country, then it simply does not happen.
A few short months ago we had two referendums on the same day. Those referendums returned two massively different results. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that the Irish people took both questions and considered them seperately on their own merits.
The simple fact is that the current government would rather not give the public a say on this issue for the simple reason that they would probably lose.

In any case let's have a look at the alternative - a FG-Labour government elected on lies and false promises casting votes under a whip system where no dissent is allowed and under massive preasure from heads of foreign governments.

Some salt and pepper with your size nines there, Leo?

Ceist_Beag

Happyman42 wrote: »

You can patronise all you want to try and get this through, but excuse me if I take the only oppurtunity presented to me to express my view that this government is doing the wrong thing.
Would you rather we went in there with hurleys and shotguns? :rolleyes:

This thread is about the concerns raised by Leo Varadkar if a referendum were to be held. It is not about whether the referendum should be passed or not - open a new thread if you want to discuss that! I haven't expressed any opinion on that subject so not sure how you can jump to the conclusion I want to get it through! However your reply has once again confirmed that the concerns raised by Leo Varadkar are valid. Continue with your off tangent discussion if you want!

Happyman42

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

This thread is about the concerns raised by Leo Varadkar if a referendum were to be held. It is not about whether the referendum should be passed or not - open a new thread if you want to discuss that! I haven't expressed any opinion on that subject so not sure how you can jump to the conclusion I want to get it through! However your reply has once again confirmed that the concerns raised by Leo Varadkar are valid. Continue with your off tangent discussion if you want!

You aren't able to interpret what Leo is really saying. The self same Leo wasn't slow about taking his seat after the last election. He had no doubt about the people's decision then, but now, because he fears the result of a referendum, he attempts to portray the electorate as stupid. You are being spun and you are the stupid one if you can't see that. If he has no faith in the electorate, tell him the door is the wooden thing in the wall.

Fear Uladh

I'm an amendment-to-be, yes an amendment-to-be,
And I'm hoping that they'll ratify me.

There's a lot of flag-burners,
Who have got too much freedom,
I want to make it legal
For policemen to beat'em.

'Cause there's limits to our liberties,
At least I hope and pray that there are,
'Cause those liberal freaks go too far.


Amendment: Then I'll crush all opposition to me,
And I'll make Gerry Adams pay.
If he fights back, I'll say that he's gay.

take everything

Stupid thing to say by Varadkar if he means it (which i find hard to believe).
Cowardly thing to say if he's just trying to avoid saying he thinks the electorate can't be trusted.

sbsquarepants

Captain Darling wrote: »

That is where i'm coming from and i'll express myself however the fcuk i want. :rolleyes:

Not if Leo, "champion of democracy" Vradkar has his way you won't.

Happyman42 wrote: »

You aren't able to interpret what Leo is really saying. The self same Leo wasn't slow about taking his seat after the last election. He had no doubt about the people's decision then, but now, because he fears the result of a referendum, he attempts to portray the electorate as stupid. You are being spun and you are the stupid one if you can't see that. If he has no faith in the electorate, tell him the door is the wooden thing in the wall.

In fairness, they did elect Leo Vradkar, so he may well have a point!

Precious flower

I think he makes a fair point. Just reading through this thread it's easy to sense the anger at FG and Leo Varadkar. I think the question this country has to ask itself is if there was a referendum on this issue would our response be emotive or clinical? There will be people who will look at the facts and make their own decision as to whether it would be beneficial to the country or not without getting their emotions involved.
However, I think for a lot of people this is a very emotive time and maybe the government is right in keeping us out of the decision process. However, their reluctance to involve us in certain issues highlights quite clearly that the Irish people have huge trust issues with this government, leading them to believe that everything the government says is in their own interest and not in the interest of the people. This is a serious problem that the government desperately needs to address so that we don't feel they are simple pushing us aside because they feel we will only do harm if the choice is left in our hands.
But that's just my opinion

Galtee

The real sad thing here is that Leo seems to be the public representative of FG. The equivalent of Mary Hanafin for FF. Wheeled out for every possible public event regardless because they are deemed to have the gift of the gab and hence will not damage the party. Oh dear, how has it come to this, when the likes of Vradkar, who I'm sure must have lost more lunch money than millhouse and has the personality of a cannibal on an indian train is the spokesman for the leaders of our country.

Mr Benevolent

Referendums are only undemocratic when the government really need them.

Bullseye1

Referendums shouldn't be legitimate until a certain percentage of the population actually turns out to vote. Maybe 70%.

hooradiation

Precious flower wrote: »

I think he makes a fair point. Just reading through this thread it's easy to sense the anger at FG and Leo Varadkar. I think the question this country has to ask itself is if there was a referendum on this issue would our response be emotive or clinical?

Look, it's perfectly justifiable to shirk your responsibility to be an informed voter if you are really, really angry.

Ellis Dee

It looks like Varadkar is one of those politicians who like to have their cake and eat it. No doubt he applauds the judgement of those who voted for him in the general election, despite his obvious shortcomings, but would not really trust them to decide on a matter of considerable importance to our nation.:rolleyes:

If holding referendums is undemocratic, then Switzerland must be the least democratic country in Europe. Varadkar is also utterly naive if he believes that voters anywhere in the world will completely exclude other considerations, such as their dislike of the government or some of its policies, when they vote on the single question posed in a referendum.:)

After all, it is usually the government that is asking for/advising a "yes" vote in the referendum, and is it not natural for voters to suspect that they (the government) are wrong in that respect given that they have done or advocated other things that the voters simply see as unjust or unwise?:) Since we live in a country where the masses do not flock, brandishing flaring torches and pitchforks, to storm the castle when they are very disgruntled, those in power have to accept the right of people to give negative feedback another way - through the ballot box!:)

Indeed, if you took Varadkar's reasoning to its logical conclusion, then it is not only referendums that are undemocratic, but also elections, since they can easily lead to the wrong people being chosen to hold public office.:eek:

I suppose he's not the first Blueshirt to think along those lines. But let's not go there.;)

Liam Byrne

sensibleken wrote: »

Liam Byrne wrote: »

It's also about the many u-turns and out-and-out deceit.

If we don't vote, we're wrong
If we don't believe what they tell us, we're
wrong
If we believe what they say before an election, we're called naive and wrong
If we then refuse to believe anything else they tell us as a result of being naive/conned, we're wrong

When the f#%k are THEY wrong ?

When it comes to referenda it doesnt matter what they or anyone else says. It is up to you to inform yourself and make up your own mind. Even if that means studying a treaty rather than reading an election poster

Actually it does. If a politician isn't honest they won't get a vote from me.

And there's no need to be patronising about the posters and falsely imply that I don't try to inform myself.

Freddie59

Undercover FBI Agent wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0129/politics.html

Is this guy off his trolley?

Yes. Listened to him on the Last Word and he repeated much the same. In fairness to Cooper (and I'm not a fan of his interview style) he went to town on him. Ran off him like water off a duck's back. The contempt for the electorate was seeping from the radio.

Well, given his party's commitment not to pay a red cent to the bondholder it isn't surprising really. But an indicator of how politicians and their handlers view the Irish people.

"And Fine Gael’s Leo Varadkar declared that banks would not get another "red cent" of capital from the state beyond what had already been promised.

As they eat their words, the Irish taxpayer is being forced to shoulder the €715m payback."

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfqlcwojgbgb/rss2/#ixzz1ky187G71

Freddie59

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I think the very many replies on this thread suggesting we need a referendum just so the people can tell the government exactly what they think of them proves the very point being made by Minister Varadkar. That doesn't mean anyone who agrees is a blueshirt btw! But anyone who thinks that, should there be a referendum, it will be purely and simply a vote on the question put, is blinkered imho! The No campaign will be backed by all those either anti government, anti the Troika, anti the bondholders or any other disillusioned groups. No doubt the Yes campaign will be similarly distracting from the question put, using fear tactics about being out of the EU and such.
I do find it funny Darling that you accuse me of hot air - have a read back over your replies on this thread and count the number of profanities uttered and irrelevant points being made and tell me which of the two of us sounds more full of hot air.

Even if a referendum is held the fcukers will bring it back again and again until they get it passed.

The Waltzing Consumer

God, another bloody thing taken out of context, seriously, AH is full of these Helen Lovejoy threads!

"He said something and I was offended!"

My name is URL

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

God, another bloody thing taken out of context, seriously, AH is full of these Helen Lovejoy threads!

"He said something and I was offended!"

The reaction hardly exclusive to AH, it's been widely reported in all of the main media sources. Do you really think people would see a problem with what these gobschites were saying if no problems or concerns existed? Perhaps things are being taken out of context to some degree but that wouldn't be the case if people weren't genuinely peeved off at the government and worried about the future right now.