Limerick Rally Against Household & Water Charges --- Tonight

jonski

I would have expected to see a thread on this here before I read it on BreakingNews . I remember a good few years back when they were bringing in the refuse charges there was a rally held down by the court house ( I think ) , I went down that night and there was only about 80 people there . I think we were heading into the celtic tiger back then and people didn't really seem to care about bills ..... I wonder will it be any different tonight ?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-rally-planned-in-opposition-to-household-and-water-charges-537802.html

A rally is to take place in Limerick tonight against household and water taxes.

Organisers are urging people to get involved and refuse to pay the charges, which campaigners say are taxes designed to bail out the banks.

The Campaign Against Household and Water Taxes group also says the charges could rise within a couple of years to €1,000 or more, leaving already cash-strapped homeowners in a very difficult position.

Spokesperson for the Limerick group Cian Prenderville said: "If people stick together, if we have up to one million households refusing to pay this tax, we can make their threats of fines unworkable and un-implementable, just like we did with the water charges in the past.

"We can defeat this tax if we stick together and refuse to pay. There's no automatic fine. They have to take people to court. People won't go into court alone - the campaign will be with them."

The rally will take place at Clarion Hotel at 8pm.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/limerick-rally-planned-in-opposition-to-household-and-water-charges-537802.html#ixzz1kwSMTwDG

Kess73

First I have heard of this. Is it a United Left alliance thing given that Cian Prendeville is involved? I ask because his is the only name I see in the article.


One line really stands out for me.

People won't go into court alone - the campaign will be with them

Is that just a reference to moral support and nothing else, or is Cian Prendeville suggesting that people will receive legal aid or financial help towards legal aid from those involved in the campaign?


Given that Cian Prendeville was good enough to come onto this forum in the past and discuss things ( In a very friendly and articulate manner it must be said) I hope that he may do so again today to shed a little more light on what exactly will be discussed tonight and as to what is in place already with regards to this campaign or is it just a basic rally that will pretty much go no further.

Insect Overlord

I just sent Cian a message on Facebook, asking him if he'll post more info here for us.

Kess73

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I just sent Cian a message on Facebook, asking him if he'll post more info here for us.

Good stuff. I think the last time he was on here it was in relation to a public park/playground area in either Dooradoyle or around the Father Russell road area. He came across as having a good head on his shoulders for someone so young.

Cianpop

Damn, just wrote a reply and lost it all. I'll try again.

This meeting tonight is part of a nation wide serioes of meetings in every county, organised by the Campaign Against Household & Water Taxes (www.nohouseholdtax.org). That campaign is not party-political and is open to everyone who is 1) opposed to all household taxes (water, property and septic tank) and 2) supports the strategy of mass non-payment as the only way to defeat these taxes.

In Limerick, it was launched via 6 meetings in key communities across the city, and now this big city & county-wide meeting. It has been organised so far via an interim steering committee made up of anyone who wants to come along (generally 20 to 30 on it, mostly non-politicos). After this meeting we may formalise that a bit more.

At the first meeting of the steering group this year it was agreed to choose 3 interim spokespeople (myself, Joe Harrington and Ger Quinlivan) all of whom would be listed on press releases etc. That again is open for discussion at the next meeting.

This is not a once off event, but the real launching of a mass campaign. We want to build active campaigns in every community of the city and the county, so I'd encourage you all to get involved. This is our chance to say enough is enough, and to refuse to pay for the bail outs through these ever increasing stealth taxes. IUf we stick together, we can beat this, just like the water tax before, and thatchers Poll Tax.

See ye there,
Cian

Kess73

Cianpop wrote: »

Damn, just wrote a reply and lost it all. I'll try again.

This meeting tonight is part of a nation wide serioes of meetings in every county, organised by the Campaign Against Household & Water Taxes (www.nohouseholdtax.org). That campaign is not party-political and is open to everyone who is 1) opposed to all household taxes (water, property and septic tank) and 2) supports the strategy of mass non-payment as the only way to defeat these taxes.

In Limerick, it was launched via 6 meetings in key communities across the city, and now this big city & county-wide meeting. It has been organised so far via an interim steering committee made up of anyone who wants to come along (generally 20 to 30 on it, mostly non-politicos). After this meeting we may formalise that a bit more.

At the first meeting of the steering group this year it was agreed to choose 3 interim spokespeople (myself, Joe Harrington and Ger Quinlivan) all of whom would be listed on press releases etc. That again is open for discussion at the next meeting.

This is not a once off event, but the real launching of a mass campaign. We want to build active campaigns in every community of the city and the county, so I'd encourage you all to get involved. This is our chance to say enough is enough, and to refuse to pay for the bail outs through these ever increasing stealth taxes. IUf we stick together, we can beat this, just like the water tax before, and thatchers Poll Tax.

See ye there,
Cian

How exactly did the Irish band together against Thatcher's Poll tax as it reads as if you are saying this? Just seems a bit odd to be talking about something that happened in another country.

Also in the press release in the first post you are quoted as having said

They have to take people to court. People won't go into court alone - the campaign will be with them.

Now is that just the usual rhetoric that often gets banded about at protests/campaigns/rallies etc in that all it means is promises of verbal encouragement/moral support or is it the promise of more subtantial and quantifiable support should individuals decide tonot pay and end up in court as a result?


Also is tonight a proper meeting where things will be explained/discussed in more detail, or will it just be something for the photographers to get a few snaps at? Sorry if that sounds a bit cynical, but years of listening to both Irish and English politicians has that effect on a person.

Cianpop

The meeting tonight will discuss all the issues, and appeal for people to join the campaign, and to join the committee. It is not just a 'rally', but an information night, and an organising session too.

We have launched a membership campaign, €5 per household, to pay for the campaign literature, and amass a legal defence fund to get legal advice etc. If anyone is brought to court, we will make those court cases political flash points for mass protests, as well as doing everything we can to support non-payers. In the Water Tax, top barristers etc were sent in to fight the test cases and managed to strike a real blow there, and then the campaign passed on that legal advice, as well as political support etc, to everyone else. Similarly in the Poll Tax battle, which is relevant in so far as mass non-payment did successfully defeat the 'Iron Lady' there.

Amazotheamazing

Why say "the charges could rise within a couple of years to €1,000 or more,", surely that's a meaningless statement, anything could happen, we could all be millionaires this time next year...

A2LUE42

What is the situation as regards the €5 fee. Is that a membership of some sort and would it leave anyone who joins liable to other costs?

xsiborg

i went to the "occupy" meeting when they had the tent down there outside dunnes stores, (merely to inform myself before i formed any judgement). all i saw was disorganised chaos, i would be of the same mind as Kess and other posters who are cynical of these kinds of campaigns.

the law IS the law, and speaking personally for myself- i would have no interest, nor wish, to appear in court, for the sake of €100, EVEN a thousand euro, if it came to that (which to my mind just comes across as scaremongering, tbh!).

by the sort of logic this campaign infers then, one could equally protest motor tax, while still driving on the roads their motor tax pays for.

where will the money come from then to pay for water treatments, etc?

and finally, it seems quite huberous to ask participants to pay €5 to join the campaign to take time out of their day to go stand outside a court house for somebody with whom they have no connection beyond the fact that it could be them up in court a week later!

i understand that the €5 is a nominal contribution towards administrative, legal and printing costs, but if this campaign is directed at people who refuse to pay a legal obligation towards the nations costs, realistically what do you think the chances are that they will want to pay €5 towards your campaign costs?

the whole emphasis of your campaign seems to be that you are encouraging people to break the law and refuse to pay a contribution towards the state, yet you expect people to contribute towards your efforts to do so?

i think i'll pass.

i would have gone, and paid the €5 purely out of interest to inform myself further about your campaign, but alas i had already decided to go to o' connells for the table quiz tonight at 9 o clock.

unless now the meeting ends at 9 o clock? then i could tip over to the clarion for 8 o clock and be down in o' connells for 9:05?

Cianpop

Hey.

Last reply for the day, sorry, just up the walls with this meeting.

For me, this is not a tax to pay for local services, etc. Local services were cut 7% this year. This is a tax to pay for the bail outs. This is an opportunity for people to refuse to pay. Not paying is not just 'sending a message' of protest, it is a strategy to win, like before. If there are, say , 1 million non-payers, and we stick together, what can they do? There is no automatic fine, there is no way the district courts can handle that, and if the government push it and take people to court whilst not a single banker had been taken up, mass protests will make sure that is a decisions they regret for the rest of their lives.

xsiborg

Cianpop wrote: »

Hey.

Last reply for the day, sorry, just up the walls with this meeting.

For me, this is not a tax to pay for local services, etc. Local services were cut 7% this year. This is a tax to pay for the bail outs. This is an opportunity for people to refuse to pay. Not paying is not just 'sending a message' of protest, it is a strategy to win, like before. If there are, say , 1 million non-payers, and we stick together, what can they do? There is no automatic fine, there is no way the district courts can handle that, and if the government push it and take people to court whilst not a single banker had been taken up, mass protests will make sure that is a decisions they regret for the rest of their lives.

ahhh, and there Cian is the fundamental failure of your campaign before it even starts- you assume the government has a conscience! i can tell you now, that the current TD's in government have necks harder than a jockey's cohones! they won't give a damn, just as they didn't give a damn about any occupy nonsense either- they'll laugh off and dismiss this campaign as quickly and easily as any other.

once you mention "the bankers" or "bailouts" as the foundation for any kind of protest- people at this stage, involuntarily almost, instantly facepalm and tune out.

your campaign Cian, well, i'd love to wish you every success with it, unfortunately i can't as you are encouraging breaking the law (hell, if your campaign can use hyperbole... ), but, your campaign suffers from the same affliction as the occupy movement-

lack of focus, short and simple.

Kess73

Cianpop wrote: »

The meeting tonight will discuss all the issues, and appeal for people to join the campaign, and to join the committee. It is not just a 'rally', but an information night, and an organising session too.

We have launched a membership campaign, €5 per household, to pay for the campaign literature, and amass a legal defence fund to get legal advice etc. If anyone is brought to court, we will make those court cases political flash points for mass protests, as well as doing everything we can to support non-payers. In the Water Tax, top barristers etc were sent in to fight the test cases and managed to strike a real blow there, and then the campaign passed on that legal advice, as well as political support etc, to everyone else. Similarly in the Poll Tax battle, which is relevant in so far as mass non-payment did successfully defeat the 'Iron Lady' there.

Thanks for the reply and for answering what I asked.

I am a little uncomfortable abut the links to the Poll Tax and Thatcher though. I don't mean this in an offensive manner, but you are a 21 or 22 year old guy from Limerick who is talking about parallels with Thatcher/Poll tax to someone who grew up in Liverpool when feelings about poll tax were at their peak and feelings towards Thatcher were hostile (and they still are with me and thousands of others to this day) to say the least. I was at protests against the Poll tax in Liverpool and in London. You possibly were not born at that point or were maybe 1 year of age. Personally speaking I think it weakens your arguement/point to be using something that you cannot possibly have any personal experience of. I understand why you are trying to make the link with what happened in England some 20 odd years ago, but at the same time you are linking the Irish campaign with a campaign that ended in violence as well as ending in the abolishment of Poll tax although this saw council tax come back in.

That niggle aside, I will most likely be at the Clarion to hear what is said tonight, and I do commend you and others for trying to be proactive.

xsiborg

Kess i think i see where Cian picked up the reference to the poll tax protests in the UK in 1990, it's contained in the FAQ of the campaign's movement-

from http://www.nohouseholdtax.org/node/182#Q6:

We can however beat the Household Tax if we all join together in a mass non-payment campaign, build membership of the campaign through the €5 membership fee and get onto the streets in large numbers. Over the coming months we will build the campaign across the country. Already there have been meetings of hundreds and we are well on the way to constructing a solid nationwide campaign.
These charges can be defeated by mass popular resistance. In 1990, huge numbers protested against the ‘poll tax’ in Britain and Maggie Thatcher was driven out of office. Resistance worked.

not to get too far off topic, but it wasn't the failure of the poll tax that caused her to resign, it was the challenge to her leadership of the conservative party by Michael Heseltine, that caused her to resign.

the more i try to inform myself about this campaign, the more i begin to realise how it all just seems to me anyway to be a whole smoky cloud of misinformed rhetoric and people repeating same.

Cianpop

Press release this mornind about the meeting:

Four hundred people attended an angry and determined public meeting of the Campaign Against the Household and Water Taxes in Limerick last night.

Speaking at the meeting, local organiser Cian Prendiville, said: "These household, water and septic tank taxes are nothing of the sort. They are bailout taxes, pure and simple. But this is our chance to refuse to pay, to make our mark. This is our referendum on austerity, on the bail outs. By sticking together, refusing to pay and refusing to register we can send the government a message they can't ignore."

Fellow campaign spokesperson, Joe Harrington, said "Non-payment is a tried and tested strategy to win. Just like with the water tax before, which I was involved in fighting, if we stick together and refuse to pay, we can make these taxes uncollectable."

Following on from the rally, public meetings are being organised in the key towns aroud the county,as well as in the key communities of Limerick City in the next weeks. Those interested in getting involved are encouraged to cal the national campaign hotline on 1890 89 89 00. The campaign will also be taking to the streets of Limerick this Saturday with a information and membership stand from 11am on Thomas Street, and people are encouraged to come along to that and join the campaign there.

No. 11

It was a huge meeting with over 400 attending with a promise of many more local meetings to follow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_219dgh7w1A

Don't register, don't pay. Build mass non-registration by St Patrick's Day.

Cianpop

Protest march tomorrow, Saturday, assemble 12 pm perys square, march to city hall. No to the households and septic tank taxes!