New Farmer

curiousbuyer

Hi All,

I have 200acrea farm that is currently all lease out. It was until 2005 a dairy and beef farm. Its a good setup, large modern shed 2 x 70ft bays for silage, 2 x slated units, another double shed (no slats), milking parlour needs renovations and then there is smaller calf sheds. I grew up on the farm so I know it well.
Thinking about getting back into farming, I'm 31 no real debt, does anyone know what if any support / grants are available to upgrade milking systems and am I mad??

Thanks,

curiousbuyer

I don't have a green cert.

6480

there is no real grants to set u up, only for buying a milk tank or milking machine , you have a great land base to start up with

Viewtodiefor

Depends where you are coming from, i.e. what is your job at the minute? As 6480 says you have a land base lots of dairy farmers would die for! However to get back into dairying it will take quite a bit of start up cash, eg parlour set up, cows,milk tank etc. You seeem to have enough buildings to start with. If you are looking at getting back in the your priorities are 1. land which u have 2.cows 3.quota. You have land cows you can buy for approx 1200 euro each, quota you need to get if you want in before 2015, you can apply as a new entrant for 200000litrs quota to get you started but you need to do certificate in ag, previously green cert costs 2000euro to do duration approx 12 to 18 mts u must attend 20 days in college the rest done online. Parlour you could prob get the old one up n running for small money to begin with if money is tight, (but hey maybe you have loads of it!) remember milk price is qood at the moment but people forget 2009 easily when the price was less than the cost of production! so if you borrow heavily and the price falls as it inevitably will you will leave yourself open to huge problems, yes this year is very good but no one knows what 2015 will bring (although some think they do know) however it wasnt long ago we were all racing around to buy as many houses as possible to get rich quick n look where that left us!
So do your homework look at the costs and budget on a milk price of say 27cent a liter, remember it will not be easy and you will have to be there everyday and morning etc etc in the first few yrs while you build up the herd. if i had access to that land base then i would go for it you will need approx 100,000 to get you started. your net margin on avg will be 10cent a litre so say you buy 40 avg cows and supply 200000litres that leaves you with 20000euro profit at end of yr 1. you must pay yourself out of that too.
just to give you a starting point, yes higher margins can be achieved but its better to expect less and achieve more than the other way around!
Hope this is of some help

curiousbuyer

I am working in a finance dept half way through an accountancy exams, heart is not in it. Don't think I could spend another 35yrs doing it. It cost a lot more than 2,000 euro. I have to give serious thought to it, I know about the 2015 deadline, parlour wouldn't take too much work, new tank and need to box off the pump properly. More concerned with the cost of buying herd and quota, I had in my mind milking 50-60.

curiousbuyer

Cheers for info view, i need a few more opinions like yours.

6480

its a pitty you didnt keep the dairy herd going since 2005 with the large land base you have

curiousbuyer

its a major regret, an established herd etc. It will be very difficult to replace it now. Trying to raise capital will not be easy at all.

Viewtodiefor

As an aside i know two guys near me that have gone back in. One guy has a landbase similar to yours and runs a suckler herd. He applied for the quota last yr and got it 200000 ltrs, built a ten unit parlolur himself bought cows, tank and its roumoured another 100000litres of quota for 45cent a litre he has borrowed 120k so far and sold some of his suckler cows also, has single farm payment somewhere in the region of 50k. He is over fifty and unsure if sons are interested in it, in this case i think he is mad!
Other case is a young farmer same story applied for quota etc borrowed 150k built new parlour etc was installed for him for him it makes sense as father also runs a big herd plus he is young.

In my own case i left a job as it was too far away and gone back to farm as i was needed at home, now or never type thing. Wouldnt have your kind of landbase though, stuck with a small quota at present as current price is 55cent litre so have to run with that for the moment, even though i grew up with it there was quite a shock to the system when it actually happened early mornings rain etc had to get used to it again, so be sure it is wht you want

Remember the grass is always greened on the other side of the fence until u get there!

KCTK

curiousbuyer wrote: »

I am working in a finance dept half way through an accountancy exams, heart is not in it. Don't think I could spend another 35yrs doing it. It cost a lot more than 2,000 euro. I have to give serious thought to it, I know about the 2015 deadline, parlour wouldn't take too much work, new tank and need to box off the pump properly. More concerned with the cost of buying herd and quota, I had in my mind milking 50-60.

Hey there, a little similar position here, I have post back in November looking at going into dairying with some good responses from guys in there, got a land base a little less than yourself and relatively good housing, currently have farm stocked with bullocks/bulls which allows me have off farm job. Qualified accountant and tax few years ago so job pays relatively good that I am in, but drive almost 2 and a half hours round trip per day!! Really would love to take the plung but hard to just give up monthly salary for a nice pile of debt and uncertain returns!! Teagasc have some good case studies on their site (but dont take everything they say as gospel..) as a guide on things. Would definately be great to be your own boss, but what viewtodiefor could come back to haunt any of us who do take the plung "the grass is always greener..."

5live

curiousbuyer wrote: »

its a major regret, an established herd etc. It will be very difficult to replace it now. Trying to raise capital will not be easy at all.

I was in the same situation as you 25 years ago, qualified but no stock or buildings. We started up with 8 suckler cows and multiple suckled for 2 years Eventually got some quota and drove sucklers(40) in to milk( fun morning, that:D). In your situation i would think about something similar, taking back some of the land to run the numbers with still having the cash flow from the rest of the land. Also, it will give you a chance to relearn about stockmanship and having some off farm cashflow too. And if your father/mother are around to keep an eye on stock would help too.
Building up gradually will suit cashflow till 2015 when you should be able to supply from 1st april.

6480

you could go into partership with a dairy farmer that has large quota ,high numbers of cows and replacements coming on that might be short on acres ,

Tipp Man

Whats a typical accountant wage 45-70k depending on where you are

Renting out the land 200 acres @ 150 an acre = 30k

So you could have an income of anything from 75k to 100k and much more if you progressed your accounting career.

You'd be a fairly well off man and still have your weekends to yourself;)

You'll have plenty of work on your hands if you are to make 100k just from the farm

curiousbuyer

Qualified account anywhere 50k plus.. Im part qualified, earning 36k, studying at night could easily take me another 2.5 - 3yrs. It costs roughly all in €1,600 - €2,000 per yr. Farms in mothers name.
Spending a lot of money renting, if i wasnt renting id have easily have close to a 2 - 3h round trip

Tipp Man

For sure you shouldn't do something that you don't like if you have other options available to you

I was merely pointing out what your income could look like 5 years down the line

Also the cost of doing the accountancy exams should in no way be a reason to stop them and go farming - this amount of money will litteraly do nothing on your farm, but it will increase your off farm income by 15-20k per annum once complete (a huge return and 2 years in the big scheme is nothing)

I'm just urging a bit of caution before chucking in the job is all

Farmer Pudsey

Tipp man is right however here is anothe option finish your exams move back home and either become self employed or get a job be prepared not to get as much as if you were in Dublin or Cork. Then either finish cattle or go into Sucklers Single Farm Payment in new structure 280X80=22400 Greening? Reps? DA?Suckler welfare? . If you do sucklers go for a easy calving system AA WH Lim consider finishing progney if AA or WH 80 cows produceing 78 AA calves 39 bulls killing 360 kgs@3.4=1224 = 47500 approx 39 heifers killing 275kgs @ 3.4 =935 =36500 turnover=84000 profit ? No huge Debt

Viewtodiefor

For what it is worth i understand the pull back to the land especially when you do not like what you are doing, however do you really want to throw away 2 or three years study and work never mind the money for the sake another few months because that is really what you have left 24 or 36 months. You are proberly getting caught up in all the hype going on in farming at the moment which is understandable when you are not happy somewhere.
However the farm will still be there when you are qualified and everyone will have a better idea of where quotas/beef prices are heading etc.

If i were you (and by the way i have made some dicisions without thinking it through properly) i would speak to your mother, explain your feeling about farming tell her you are gooing to finish your studies and then look at moving back with a view to setting up in farming. In the mean time put all the idle chatter we here in farming totally out of your head, get stuck into your exams finish as early as you can and save as much as you can in the next 2 yrs to give you something to start with and let that be your driving force through the hard period you do not like, think of it as a means to an end!

49801

dont chuck in the accounacy thing yet!
go travel for 12mths if you need the headspace and go and finish out your exams then.
farming will still be there for you later

towzer2010

If I was in your situation I think I'd finish getting the accountancy qualifications and try to work in that area for a while. I would love to farm full time but its only in the last year or so that a lot of people have begun to see farming as a viable profession mainly due to the price increases. The problem with that is the cost of restocking is very high and may well be a bubble. Why not wait a few years and see how things are then. Meanwhile you could be getting a good rental income.

I think you should keep Warren Buffetts advice (one of the worlds wealthiest men) in mind when he said "Be fearful when others are greedy and be greedy only when others are fearful."

curiousbuyer

Thanks for all the advice lads
Think I am going to side with caution on this one..
I am going to endeavour to finish the exams, and take it from there.

Injuryprone

I certainly would finish the accountancy. There's no way of knowing whether you'll like farming any better than accontancy (milking cows day-in-day-out certainly isn't for everyone) and at least if you had the qualification, you'd have something to fall back on.

In the meantime, I'd look at maybe getting the green cert done online in parallel with the accountancy. From what I read, the course is after getting hard to get a place in and with it taking 18 months to complete, even if you applied now, you'd be doing well to have it done before you get your accountancy qualifications. That way you'd be ready to go to take over when you come back to the farm.

funny man

curiousbuyer wrote: »

Hi All,

I have 200acrea farm that is currently all lease out. It was until 2005 a dairy and beef farm. Its a good setup, large modern shed 2 x 70ft bays for silage, 2 x slated units, another double shed (no slats), milking parlour needs renovations and then there is smaller calf sheds. I grew up on the farm so I know it well.
Thinking about getting back into farming, I'm 31 no real debt, does anyone know what if any support / grants are available to upgrade milking systems and am I mad??

Thanks,

Keep it leased out until after the great farming crash!

1chippy

200ac with modern sheds, im drooling:D