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TV Licence.

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2

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    #32
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    The Gardai can enter anywhere with a lawful warrant, by force if necessary.

    And, the TV Licence wording is such that if you have a laptop, desktop, tablet or any device capable of receiving a signal you have to pay. Even if you have a laptop with no tv card, you still have to pay as the device can be adapted. In this day and age, unless you have no tv, no computer and no smart phone, you have to pay it. Simples.

    And if you can't get the signal, then i would fight it.


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    #33
    User Friendly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭User Friendly


    Sully wrote: »
    Lol with a warrant you do.
    well that goes without saying Sully:rolleyes:


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    #34
    JPA
    Registered Users Posts: 13,771 ✭✭✭✭JPA


    snuggles09 wrote: »
    i might be being a bit of a thicko here but do you need a licence for every TV in the house? most houses nowadays have more than one TV..is it a licence for each one or does the licence cover the household if you get me?

    Just one for the house.


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    #35
    nkay1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    The Gardai can enter anywhere with a lawful warrant, by force if necessary.

    And, the TV Licence wording is such that if you have a laptop, desktop, tablet or any device capable of receiving a signal you have to pay. Even if you have a laptop with no tv card, you still have to pay as the device can be adapted. In this day and age, unless you have no tv, no computer and no smart phone, you have to pay it. Simples.

    And if you can't get the signal, then i would fight it.

    I'm pretty sure that can't be the case because, otherwise, they wouldn't be trying to draft another law to include computers etc.


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    #36
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    nkay1985 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that can't be the case because, otherwise, they wouldn't be trying to draft another law to include computers etc.

    That's exasperated from Garda Powers. The government which to create a new type of licence, to replace the existing, that would keep up with modern ways of receiving TV. At the moment, without a TV/Aerial, they may find it tough to prosecute.


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    #37
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Potential-Monke wrote: »

    The Gardai can enter anywhere with a lawful warrant, by force if necessary.

    Good luck getting a warrant for a TV licence.
    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    And, the TV Licence wording is such that if you have a laptop, desktop, tablet or any device capable of receiving a signal you have to pay. Even if you have a laptop with no tv card, you still have to pay as the device can be adapted.

    Incorrect.
    Always brought up in these debates, and always wrong.
    The Broadcasting Bill 2009 specifically exempts mobile phones, “standard PCs with a broadband connection and laptops with TV cards” from a television licence requirement, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Eamon Ryan TD, has said.
    What this means is that anyone in Ireland watching streamed or downloadable video content, be it from a service such as YouTube or the RTE Player – which has shows such as EastEnders and Grey’s Anatomy available for viewing after broadcast – will not have to hold any form of TV licence.
    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/12982-government-says-no-tv-licen

    2009, but this still stands today.


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    #38
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    mikom wrote: »
    Good luck getting a warrant for a TV licence.

    It is possible to get it. I can't find the exact part of law detailing how, but the Inspector can apply for a warrant through his channels and have a Garda with him to execute the warrant, as long as he has reasonable suspicion. I reckon it may become common as they try and get more money from us.
    Incorrect.
    Always brought up in these debates, and always wrong.

    Section 140 of the Broadcasting Act 2009:

    “ television set ” means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus;

    That covers a helluva lot!
    2009, but this still stands today.

    I can see the quote, but i can't see it in the Broadcasting Act 2009 or any of the 3 SI's which came after it. I'm open to correction, but i can't find it. The then Minister said once the Act is in force, he would subsequently exempt them, but there's no indication that he did.

    If you, or anyone, can find the Act or SI which exempts laptops, etc, then i will accept it with wide-open arms and get rid of my TV's for projectors and save myself €160 a year!


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    #39
    kittymiss
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭kittymiss


    shocking stuff here , people sitting in their own humble abodes waiting for the state troopers to come and catch them, for not contributing to the salaries and pensions of pat spindrella kenny,tubs,jo daffy ,boredom o conner and plenty other super ovepaid z listers.
    take a deep breath ,there are more important things to worry about for more and more people like food, clothing, heating etc....


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    #40
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    It is possible to get it. I can't find the exact part of law detailing how, but the Inspector can apply for a warrant through his channels and have a Garda with him to execute the warrant, as long as he has reasonable suspicion. I reckon it may become common as they try and get more money from us.

    Is it possible though? I can't see how a warrant could be issued for a TV inspection.


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    #41
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    Is it possible though? I can't see how a warrant could be issued for a TV inspection.

    I know there is a section in the Broadcasting Act 09 that states that an inspector is allowed to enter any premises in order to inspect the place, but it didn't mention a warrant, or any offences for stopping or refusing him entry. I'm sure if that section is there, then there must be something for a warrant.

    Edit: Section 146(3) of the Broadcasting Act 09:
    (3) An officer of an issuing agent may enter at any reasonable time any premises or specified place for the purposes of ascertaining whether there is a television set there and a television licence is for the time being in force in respect of the premises or specified place authorising the keeping of a television set at the premises or specified place.

    But, if the Gardai do call to the door (with the inspector), look for the warrant before allowing entry.


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    #42
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Potential-Monke wrote: »

    But, if the Gardai do call to the door (with the inspector), look for the warrant before allowing entry.

    You'll find they won't be very forthcoming with it.
    There will be few guards that will bother a judge for a warrant to deal with a TV licence.


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    #43
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    mikom wrote: »
    You'll find they won't be very forthcoming with it.

    If they don't show it to you, I'd grab the nearest item that records video, press record and request the warrant again.
    There will be few guards that will bother a judge for a warrant to deal with a TV licence.

    I reckon it will become common, it's revenue for the state, i'm sure they'll try and push it especially to try and cover the costs of the digital changeover.


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    #44
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    If they don't show it to you, I'd grab the nearest item that records video, press record and request the warrant again.



    I reckon it will become common, it's revenue for the state, i'm sure they'll try and push it especially to try and cover the costs of the digital changeover.


    It would be in breach of your constitutional rights for a garda (even with a warrant) to enter your house on the basis of a TV inspection.

    Also, AFAIK, the gardaí do not need to have the warrant with them when conducting a search.


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    #45
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    It would be in breach of your constitutional rights for a garda (even with a warrant) to enter your house on the basis of a TV inspection.

    Source? Once a warrant is granted and is valid, the Gardai have the power to search your house. Whether they want a TV, a needle or a cup of coffee. Once they have a valid reason, they are entitled.
    Also, AFAIK, the gardaí do not need to have the warrant with them when conducting a search.

    They cant gain access to your house, without permission or a warrant.


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    #46
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    Sully wrote: »
    Source? Once a warrant is granted and is valid, the Gardai have the power to search your house. Whether they want a TV, a needle or a cup of coffee. Once they have a valid reason, they are entitled.

    I can't see any judge issuing a warrant for a TV inspection. Saying that, if the gardaí do turn up to search your house for a TV, they are breaching your constitutional rights as outlined in:

    Article 40 5

    The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.


    They cant gain access to your house, without permission or a warrant.

    I never said they could do otherwise. I stated that they don't need to have the warrant with them.


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    #47
    nkay1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    I can't see any judge issuing a warrant for a TV inspection. Saying that, if the gardaí do turn up to search your house for a TV, they are breaching your constitutional rights as outlined in:

    Article 40 5

    The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.





    I never said they could do otherwise. I stated that they don't need to have the warrant with them.

    The "save in accordance with law" bit is where your argument falls down if you're talking about them arriving with a warrant.

    And they do have to have the warrant with them. They basically have to serve you with the warrant and I'm pretty sure you have to read it and sign it or something like that before they can enter.


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    #48
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    nkay1985 wrote: »
    And they do have to have the warrant with them. They basically have to serve you with the warrant and I'm pretty sure you have to read it and sign it or something like that before they can enter.

    Doubt it. If you object to the warrant, you can have your case struck out because the evidence picked up (if any) during the search would be invalid.


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    #49
    nkay1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    Sully wrote: »
    Doubt it. If you object to the warrant, you can have your case struck out because the evidence picked up (if any) during the search would be invalid.

    Yeah I'm not sure about that last bit but I thought I remembered being told that before. Must check it out just out of curiousity.


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    #50
    Finnbar01
    Registered Users Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭Finnbar01


    nkay1985 wrote: »
    The "save in accordance with law" bit is where your argument falls down if you're talking about them arriving with a warrant.

    Actually that part of the article is where I make my arguement. A warrant for a TV inspection would be like taking a sledge hammer to a peanut.
    And they do have to have the warrant with them. They basically have to serve you with the warrant and I'm pretty sure you have to read it and sign it or something like that before they can enter.

    I have been told differently.


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    #51
    nkay1985
    Registered Users Posts: 6,975 ✭✭✭nkay1985


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    Actually that part of the article is where I make my arguement. A warrant for a TV inspection would be like taking a sledge hammer to a peanut.

    I agree with you that it's very unlikely that anyone would go to the bother of getting a warrant for something so small as a tv license violation but the fact remains that if a Garda arrives at your door with a warrant, they can enter your home. That's the only point I was making, seeing as you wrote:
    Saying that, if the gardaí do turn up to search your house for a TV, they are breaching your constitutional rights as outlined in:

    Article 40 5

    The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.


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    #52
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Sully wrote: »
    Doubt it. If you object to the warrant, you can have your case struck out because the evidence picked up (if any) during the search would be invalid.

    You can't object to a warrant. Don't know where you heard that but it's wrong. If the warrant is valid, they can enter by force if necessary and arrest anyone attempting to stop them.

    If it turns out that the warrant was not valid then you can bring a case afterwards and all evidence would be thrown out.

    Also, there is nothing to sign. A warrant is just a piece of paper issued by a Judge or Peace Commissioner (or Superintendent in certain cases). They hand it to you as they enter, they don't have to wait for permission to enter nor do they have to wait while you read it (while your friend flushes the coke! :P).


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    #53
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    You can't object to a warrant. Don't know where you heard that but it's wrong. If the warrant is valid, they can enter by force if necessary and arrest anyone attempting to stop them.

    Yeah that's what I was saying, didnt mean objecting on site!


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    #54
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Sully wrote: »
    Yeah that's what I was saying, didnt mean objecting on site!

    Ah right!


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    #55
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Just a quick update in relation to this. I got an email stating that a laptop, by itself, is not considered a tv. He decided to ignore the same question for a projector, but i'd imagine it's the same. As long as you don't have a combination of hardware/software that allows you to receive and display the terrestrial signal, you're laughing.

    So, that settles that, by the end of the year i will have no tv, a HD 3D projector, an 80" screen and no tv licence! Yurt!


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    #56
    kkdela6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 414 ✭✭kkdela6


    We got a letter to our rented accomodation back in august or september (addressed to 'the occupier', so they dont know our names) and i rang em up in september asking for a few extra weeks to pay it (i.e think of an excuse not to pay it), to which they said grand.

    Now im a bit of a boyo me, and i have no intention of paying this tv license considering all we have is a fuzzy rte 1 and 2, and i am moving out in mid march. Do ya reckon they'll follow us up? i mean they havent made any form of contact since that faithful night in september, we've never had an inspector (touch wood) so do you reckon once we're gone anything more will be done?

    I like to think they wont because i still owe bord gais 14 euro from 2 years ago and they havent sent the hounds after me yet :o


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    #57
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Just a quick update in relation to this. I got an email stating that a laptop, by itself, is not considered a tv.

    What did I tell ya......


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    #58
    schiz0phren1c
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭schiz0phren1c


    Finnbar01 wrote: »
    I can't see any judge issuing a warrant for a TV inspection. Saying that, if the gardaí do turn up to search your house for a TV, they are breaching your constitutional rights as outlined in:

    Article 40 5

    The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.





    I never said they could do otherwise. I stated that they don't need to have the warrant with them.

    Finnbarr mate they definitely DO need to have the warrant with them,
    otherwise they could enter where/when ever they like,and just get a warrant sorted AFTER the fact if they find any evidence,
    they also have to present it to you in some shape or form,that can be a formal declaration"we are here to search the premises and have a warrant under such and such an act"and show it to you,OR wave it in your face as the stormtroopers rush past depending on circumstance(I.e. whether its something non violent and trivial like a TV license,or in the other case if you're a hardened crim and they're raiding for drugs/guns/steroid injected killer hamsters etc)
    This is enforced even more rigorously now that a Judge is NOT needed for certain warrants,only the Superintendent of a station in certain serious circumstances,
    obviously this would be open to massive abuse IF the shickalawni DIDN'T have to have the warrant with them.


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    #59
    Speak Now
    Registered Users Posts: 8,590 ✭✭✭Speak Now


    Save your self € 0.04 by paying € 13.33 per month :pac:


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    #60
    CuriousG
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭CuriousG


    old gregg wrote: »
    If you have equipment capable of receiving a television signal then you must have a television licence as far as I can see:
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer_affairs/media/tv_licences.html


    Watching your DVD on a laptop/desktop/mobile computer is currently excluded as long as it does not contain a tv receiver card.

    Not loking good for you sorry to say.


    Does that mean if you have a tv, but no aerials and no sattelite channels etc, but the sattelite is fitted from the last tenant, (and not connected) you have to pay? I have a tv in the house, but not an aerial or anything, and it is never used, but still there.


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    #61
    Gadgie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Gadgie


    You need a TV licence if you have any piece of equipment capable of receiving a broadcast (terrestrial/cable/satellite) TV signal.


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