So, I got attacked...

Khannie

Danpad wrote: »

I suppose I'm considering training just to feel a bit more enabled.

I'd say you're gonna be best off if you hit some pads then to be honest. If you boxed until you were 23 you're probably going to enjoy that the most / more likely to keep it up / know where to go / what to do / who to do it with.

Boxing is top end for looking after yourself should the need arise.

SBG Ireland

but bjj wouldn't do you much good either, Why do some people mention Kung Fu when they try to mock?

wow, really?? lol!!

ok karate kick, bjj elbow, tkd knife hand...chose whichever causes the least offense.

Feisar

SBG Ireland wrote: »

if after reading this your advice is anything other that both of you should've stayed in your 1ton steel boxes and kept driving then you are living in a fantasy land.
to suggest there's any training he could do to go out and kung fu chop 15guys is both childish and irresponsible. the guy's lucky to be alive.

...now im not suggesting either of them purposefully mow down a group either. but seriously what did the woman expect would happen? "ok ma'am, we'll move out of your way"?
slow down
beep
try to avoid them
BUT if they insist on getting in the way then yes hit them
i'd like to see the judge that convicts a woman trying to protect her baby in those circumstances.

Totally agree with everything except the bit I've put in bold.

If she stayed in the car she could have reversed, escaped etc. Force is only legal when there is no means of escape.

Running them over? Well it'd probably considered as excessive force and not legal.

Also, protecting her baby? Surely everyone has the same rights to defend themselves under the law?

arybvtcw0eolkf

OP this will in all likelihood never happen to you again.

So if you think you'll enjoy Martial Arts training, looking around your area for a club - try visit different clubs on different nights and one will probably click with you.

M.A. training - BJJ, Judo, Muay Thai, TKD, Kendo etc etc etc, they're all a bit of craic and each has something different to offer depending on what the student is looking for..

Niall0

Bambi wrote: »

Probably shouldnt be posting in a self defence forum so. Head into the soccer forum, tell them that you think soccer is a pile of pish and see what happens

Its more than a self defence form though, I come on here because we dont have a BJJ forum.

KathleenMcCabe

Hope you are ok now. That woman and her child are very lucky you intervened.

Kali and panantukan are very good arts. I love them and they work for me.

But i think no matter what art you favour or want to try. You have to find a good teacher and put the time and the effort in so that you can get the most of it.

Choose the right art that's right for you for the right reason and remember every art has something to offer.

SBG Ireland

Feisar wrote: »

Totally agree with everything except the bit I've put in bold.

If she stayed in the car she could have reversed, escaped etc. Force is only legal when there is no means of escape.

yeah if only i'd have said...

slow down
beep
try to avoid them (this means reversing/escaping)
BUT if they insist on getting in the way (ie reversing/escaping not an option)...

oh wait...

CageWager

This is how you deal with multiple attackers like a boss (at least in hollywood!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8coq2cUn1U

Phenomenally Phrank

Holy ****ing jebus, OP! Fair play to you for doing what you did, we need more like you.
Hopefully the scum who did that will come to a sticky end.

Dyr

Niall0 wrote: »

Its more than a self defence form though, I come on here because we dont have a BJJ forum.

Ah well thats okay then, fire away so

cowzerp

Niall0 wrote: »

Its more than a self defence form though, I come on here because we dont have a BJJ forum.

it's the self defense and Martial arts forum so BJJ fits in perfect

Also there really is no need to have a seperate BJJ forum as if thats how things where then there would be Judo Forum, TKD Forum, Krav Maga Forum and then it all get's silly and cross discussion would die, personally thats the most interesting part of discussing Martial arts.

MMA forum is different in it is a spectator sport aswell as attracts many coaches and fighters, all the above i named above are not really spectator sports.

Zen65

Niall0 wrote: »

Personally I think self defence is a con.

If you're being "sold" self-defence classes on the basis that a few classes will turn you into Bruce Lee, that's a con. If you're being sold a beer on the basis that girls will find you attractive when you drink it, that's a con.

But beer isn't a con, and self-defence training isn't a con. But self-defence training is not a panacea for all situations (and needless to say beer isn't either!!). In the Op's situation a good self defence instructor would have told him to stay in the car (that's the self bit) and phone the police, and also take photos of the thugs. The woman in the Op's story was being threatened but not being attacked (her car was). Having done that he could have got out of his car and said loudly and forcefully "I've called the Guards and they're on the way" before getting close enough for engagement. Then he could have escorted the lady to her car and maybe the thugs would be less likely to attack him.

But it's easy to offer advice like this after the event. Had I been there myself I probably would have felt morally obliged to get out of my car quickly to go to the aid of the lady, even though I would know it was unwise.

No amount of training can teach you to deal with 15 attackers simultaneously. In fact you are unlikely even to beat two people simultaneously (though you could possibly beat one person twice). In fact the best instruction focuses on teaching you to recognize the danger in a situation and how to avoid it.

That's no con.

Z

Niall0

Zen65 wrote: »

If you're being "sold" self-defence classes on the basis that a few classes will turn you into Bruce Lee, that's a con. If you're being sold a beer on the basis that girls will find you attractive when you drink it, that's a con.

But beer isn't a con, and self-defence training isn't a con. But self-defence training is not a panacea for all situations (and needless to say beer isn't either!!). In the Op's situation a good self defence instructor would have told him to stay in the car (that's the self bit) and phone the police, and also take photos of the thugs. The woman in the Op's story was being threatened but not being attacked (her car was). Having done that he could have got out of his car and said loudly and forcefully "I've called the Guards and they're on the way" before getting close enough for engagement. Then he could have escorted the lady to her car and maybe the thugs would be less likely to attack him.

But it's easy to offer advice like this after the event. Had I been there myself I probably would have felt morally obliged to get out of my car quickly to go to the aid of the lady, even though I would know it was unwise.

No amount of training can teach you to deal with 15 attackers simultaneously. In fact you are unlikely even to beat two people simultaneously (though you could possibly beat one person twice). In fact the best instruction focuses on teaching you to recognize the danger in a situation and how to avoid it.

That's no con.

Z

I agree with everything you are saying here, i just get frustated by the people who charge for "self defense" or various forms of martial arts which are not so functional in a self defence situation. A large proportion of these classes are complete BS and are thought by people who have no clue, im sure you can see various instances of this yourself. There definitely are people who do various forms of self defense training which im sure help people though.

In reality self defense has little to do with martial arts and more to do with common sense and basically not putting yourself in a situation in which you are likely to be attacked as Barry was describing in his post.

The Op found himself in a very sticky situation and was lucky to get out of it without serious injury or worse. Its very difficult to say what the correct thing to do in a situation like this is.

Dyr

Niall0 wrote: »

I agree with everything you are saying here, i just get frustated by the people who charge for "self defense" or various forms of martial arts which are not so functional in a self defence situation.

How would one decide what is/isn't functional in a self defence situation

Niall0

Bambi wrote: »

How would one decide what is/isn't functional in a self defence situation

As a matter of interest are you involved in sef defense training as a coach or student? What would you say IS functional in a self defence situation such as this?

Stillweak

I know I'm going to get a lot of stick for this but was going to close account anyway.
This story is probably not true but if there is any truth to it here is what I think happened.
Little scumbags walking around annoying everyone they come across. They are probably no danger to anyone except males of their own age.
They get to a road a start messing with the traffic. They are just showing off and trying to piss everybody off. They are not expecting anybody to actually get out of their car.
Stupid woman gets out of her car only because she knows that 99.999999 % of the time a teenager or group will not do anything to her.
These idiots are at an age where they have to get the last word in so they bang on her car. The stupid woman and her child are still in no danger.
The OP like many people in his 40s (I'm in my 40s) is over confident of his powers against teenagers and also knows that 99% of the time the lads will begin to realise they are making too much of a scene and just leave. So he jumps out of his car acting tough, knowing full well the woman is not in danger, and mouths off. Does he or anybody really think a gang of teenagers are going to attack the baby in the car.
The little scumbags react as don't want to be told what to do. As mentioned by someone earlier this is a great chance for the coward of the group to get a rep by getting in few punches in when the odds are in his favour.
Moral of the story just ignore little sh•t heads unless you are genuinely in trouble. Then run or drive away. Never get out of your car. The idiot woman put her child in danger and the idiot man now knows that just because you are 40 odd doesn't mean teenagers are scared of you.

cowzerp

i actually think while harsh that probably is true, reading the whole thread it never sounded like the baby or woman where in any real danger bar been annoyed.

in saying that watching a woman been bullied is not nice either

Dyr

Niall0 wrote: »

As a matter of interest are you involved in sef defense training as a coach or student? What would you say IS functional in a self defence situation such as this?

I've never taken a self defence class in me life. I'm also not putting forth opinions on a self defence/martial arts forum on what is or isnt a con so you fire away and clarify

Niall0

Bambi wrote: »

I've never taken a self defence class in me life. I'm also not putting forth opinions on a self defence/martial arts forum on what is or isnt a con so you fire away and clarify

If your not putting an opinion one way or the other and you are not involed in self defense then why are you here? I gave my opinion and i think i explained myself enough. Looks like your trolling to me.

Danpad

Hmm, a couple of astonishing responses there. There was nothing untrue about the state I returned to my wife and children in. There was nothing untrue about the recuperation period I had to go through and there certainly was nothing untrue about how those lunatics acted on the night.

It's comments like those two that remind me of the people that drove by and simply stared. As they did so, someone stood on the back bumper of the woman's car banging on the rear windscreen at the child inside whilst another held onto the driver's door preventing her from getting in and closing it.

The last thing I feel the need to do is to get into a debate about what happened with people who weren't there, so I won't and trust me, I haven't benefitted one iota, even in any perverse way, by disclosing details of how I got battered.

I'll bow out by saying thanks to those who responded positively, constructively and kindly.

newmug

Anyone know where you could do Krav around Meath?

Dyr

Niall0 wrote: »

If your not putting an opinion one way or the other and you are not involed in self defense then why are you here? I gave my opinion and i think i explained myself enough. Looks like your trolling to me.

Lets put it this way, wander into any other forum in the sports category here, and post "i think *forum title* is a con", you'll be probably be smacked with the banhammer fairly hard. This forum tends to be a bit more forgiving for whatever reason.

So anyway, you expressed a dislike for all these self defense/martial arts instructors who are not teaching functional self defence so presumably you have some criteria to decide what's functional in a self defence scenario?

Dyr

newmug wrote: »

Anyone know where you could do Krav around Meath?

Is tyrellstown near meath? Friend of mine was talking about opening up a krav maga class out that way.

First Aid Ireland

newmug wrote: »

Anyone know where you could do Krav around Meath?

I've done a bit of Krav. I really enjoyed it, and it's better than doing nothing. But ultimately I think the lack of any real sparring makes it's use limited in any kind of nasty situation. It also seemed to give a minority of people who did it a confidence that I think it didn't warrant. I think some of the lads thought they were ready to fight gangs single-handedly after a few months training.

It's great fun, though.

token101

Fair play for doing something if you felt there was genuine reason. If she was genuinely afraid, she should have just drove over them if they were on the road. Perfectly reasonable defence if ten thugs surround your car.

crosdad

People need to have a bit more common sense. That woman getting out of the car is absolutley ridiclous. I dont understand people's reactions sometimes. a few months ago me and my mates were in town and saw these girls getting the heads kicked off them by aload of knacker girls, we immiedietly intervened by restraining the knacker girls. we were trying to hold them back yet the girls who just got attacked kept coming back for more and wouldnt leave cause one of the girls had stolen her bag, absoultey ridiclous. No matter how much we pleaded the posh girls wouldnt leave and kept getting the heads kicked off them.

last year with the big freeze there was a story that a cyclist up in sundrive was snowballed by a bout 15 youths, when he confronted them the lads beat the **** out of him. these scumbags arent looking to have an intellectual debate, just get out of there.

i was driving to my gym during that big freeze and i say about 30 lil scumbags put alod of trolleys in front of my car beside the church in walkinstown. they started milling my goergous car out it, i ploughed straight through that ****.

Niall0

Bambi wrote: »

Lets put it this way, wander into any other forum in the sports category here, and post "i think *forum title* is a con", you'll be probably be smacked with the banhammer fairly hard. This forum tends to be a bit more forgiving for whatever reason.

So anyway, you expressed a dislike for all these self defense/martial arts instructors who are not teaching functional self defence so presumably you have some criteria to decide what's functional in a self defence scenario?

Ok then ill play along with you for now, basically the reason alot of these self defence classes are BS is that they ignore "Aliveness" ill let Matt Thornton explain what that is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=932XUCWlelQ

leggit

woman is a moron for getting out of her car in the first place. end of story.

theboxingclinic

Ur friend is it? Haha

Bambi wrote: »

newmug wrote: »

Anyone know where you could do Krav around Meath?

Is tyrellstown near meath? Friend of mine was talking about opening up a krav maga class out that way.

Zen65

Bambi wrote: »

How would one decide what is/isn't functional in a self defence situation

This guy knows what he's talking about..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu6bXxTwfk

Watch and learn.


Z

Niall0

Zen65 wrote: »

This guy knows what he's talking about..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jeu6bXxTwfk

Watch and learn.


Z

Lol, brilliant.:D

Dyr

theboxingclinic wrote: »

Ur friend is it? Haha

yep he is, Have you a strange problem with that or something?

guitarzero

Carry a knife. I dont know why everyones so averted to carrying a knife. Carry a knife.

Doug Cartel

Do not carry a knife.

theboxingclinic

Ya I find it strangely amusing that "your friend" is staring krav maga classes. What a coincidence

Bambi wrote: »

theboxingclinic wrote: »

Ur friend is it? Haha

yep he is, Have you a strange problem with that or something?

pablohoney87

guitarzero wrote: »

Carry a knife. I dont know why everyones so averted to carrying a knife. Carry a knife.

replace knife with nuke. So much cooler

theboxingclinic

guitarzero wrote: »

Carry a knife. I dont know why everyones so averted to carrying a knife. Carry a knife.

Pull a knife on a group of guys, stab one, guess what the rest will do to you?

Niall0

guitarzero wrote: »

Carry a knife. I dont know why everyones so averted to carrying a knife. Carry a knife.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0012/sec0009.html

Dyr

theboxingclinic wrote: »

Ya I find it strangely amusing that "your friend" is staring krav maga classes. What a coincidence

No need to put "your friend" in quotes there buddy, he is an actual friend. If you suspect its me I've never trained a day in krav maga, I have f**k all interest in it. Have a look at my join date, you think Ive been hanging around here since 2002 building some false persona just for the chance to shill a krav maga class a decade later?

Speaking of free advertising, hows that username working out for ya?

guitarzero

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Do not carry a knife.

Why?

Doug Cartel

theboxingclinic wrote: »

Ya I find it strangely amusing that "your friend" is staring krav maga classes. What a coincidence

Give it a rest. It looks like a fairly honest coincidence to me.

Dyr

guitarzero wrote: »

Carry a knife. I dont know why everyones so averted to carrying a knife. Carry a knife.

take a look at the arrest/prosecution/convicton rates just for possession of knives, they aren't as high as people might think but would you really want to play with those odds? if you actually used a knife you'd be playing with higher odds again, good luck with that.

Doug Cartel

guitarzero wrote: »

Why?

There are many reasons you shouldn't carry a knife, but one of the main ones is that it is illegal to carry/use one as a weapon. This website does not condone illegal activities.

theboxingclinic

Fantastically well actually thanks for asking!!!

Bambi wrote: »

theboxingclinic wrote: »

Ya I find it strangely amusing that "your friend" is staring krav maga classes. What a coincidence

No need to put "your friend" in quotes there buddy, he is an actual friend. If you suspect its me I've never trained a day in krav maga, I have f**k all interest in it. Have a look at my join date, you think Ive been hanging around here since 2002 building some false persona just for the chance to shill a krav maga class a decade later?

Speaking of free advertising, hows that username working out for ya?

The Bored One

guitarzero wrote: »

Carry a knife. I dont know why everyones so averted to carrying a knife. Carry a knife.

Now there's a plan with no possible negative consequences...If you're gonna go down that route you're much better off getting a pet rock. Draw a face on it and keep it on your person at all times. When you are eventually caught bludgeoning someone to death with it claim to the police that its name is Mr Stitches and its your only friend. This may make a plea of insanity at your trial slightly more successful.*

* The Bored One accepts no responsibilty for anyone stupid enough try the Mr Stitches Defence in real life.

getz

he is between a rock and a hard place,its very easy to be wise after the event,in a crisis and seeing a woman and child in danger most of us would react the same way,i have trained in MA for over 43 years,and have dan grades in three japanese styles and three high grades in other styles,like op i am getting on in years 71 in fact,and i can assure you that he is far to old to start training in most MA styles to reach a competent level,but if he is keen to boost his confidence level,the style that could fit would be traditional shotokan.will not stop him getting a hiding but he could go out with a bang,other answer is carry a pepper or iodine spray,a few squirts should do the trick

guitarzero

Doug Cartel wrote: »

There are many reasons you shouldn't carry a knife, but one of the main ones is that it is illegal to carry/use one as a weapon. This website does not condone illegal activities.

I'm not sure about that - the actual carrying one as surely theres an ambiguity as to why you'd have one. Also, you wouldnt have to use it, I'm sure anyone considering attacking another knowing they have a knife would reconsider.

The Bored One

guitarzero wrote: »

I'm not sure about that - the actual carrying one as surely theres an ambiguity as to why you'd have one. Also, you wouldnt have to use it, I'm sure anyone considering attacking another knowing they have a knife would reconsider.

First off, any ambiguity as to why you have knife counts against you, not for you. Irish law is quite specific about you needing to have a very solid watertight reason for having anything that might be used as an offensive weapon on your person.

Second, knives only have one setting. Lethal. If you are not prepared to use it, then its more of a threat to you than them. You've escalated the level of potential force, and if you're not prepared to back that up, it tends to become obvious rather quickly.
People planning to use their knives do not stand around threatening with them. They grab and stab without the victim realizing the knife is ther ein the first place. You show off you have a knife, don't be surpised if they call your bluff.

Niall0

guitarzero wrote: »

I'm not sure about that - the actual carrying one as surely theres an ambiguity as to why you'd have one. Also, you wouldnt have to use it, I'm sure anyone considering attacking another knowing they have a knife would reconsider.

In case you didnt see the link i posted on the previous page http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0012/sec0009.html
It is against the law to carry a knife in a public place end of story

Laisurg

To be honest that was a bad situation, any time there's a large group of lads it doesn't matter how good a fighter you are because they just have the numbers, a weapon like a hurl or some other blunt object with length is the only thing that would really help you come out of a situation like that unscarred... still fair play for helping the woman, I'm sure most people wouldn't have done that.
Judo, boxing or muay thai, managing to flatten one of them with a kick to the head might scare the rest in a situation like that.