Taxi's to accept Leap Cards

bk

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0131/taxi.html

Minister of State for Public Transport Alan Kelly said that in future, all taxis will be required to accept credit cards and allow the use of the Leap public transport card.

This would be a nice addition to Leap. Also I hope that all taxis will be able to accept the new contact less credit/debit cards, which from the end of 2012, almost everyone in Ireland will have and will be more ubiquitous then LEAP.

Personally I'm waiting for them to add Dublin Bike to Leap, any news on this?

kirving

Dublin Bikes are only a tenner a year, cant argue with that at all. Integrating it with Leap would be great in the sense that people would only need a single card, and you could take the odd 50c off your leap card if you went over the free 30 mins.

Mr Simpson

How would taxi's accepting LEAP be feasible. A taxi journey could cost over €30 in Dublin, when there is only a reserve balance of €5. I personally don't see it working. On the other hand I think all taxis should be forced to accept (contactless) credit & debit cards.

AngryLips

mmcn90 wrote: »

How would taxi's accepting LEAP be feasible. A taxi journey could cost over €30 in Dublin, when there is only a reserve balance of €5. I personally don't see it working. On the other hand I think all taxis should be forced to accept (contactless) credit & debit cards.

Well the option wouldn't be available to pay by Leap if that were the case, the reader wouldn't debit the required amount...

Mr Simpson

AngryLips wrote: »

Well the option wouldn't be available to pay by Leap if that were the case, the reader wouldn't debit the required amount...

At which stage the journey would be complete, possibly causing problems for both drivers and passengers. ie. No other form of payment available

foggy_lad

mmcn90 wrote: »

How would taxi's accepting LEAP be feasible. A taxi journey could cost over €30 in Dublin, when there is only a reserve balance of €5. I personally don't see it working. On the other hand I think all taxis should be forced to accept (contactless) credit & debit cards.

There is no way that Leap cards could be used in taxis, seems like more waffle from the ministers giving themselves a pat on the back for all the wrong reasons! <snip another Foggy_Lad off-topic rant>

Mr Simpson

foggy_lad wrote: »

There is no way that Leap cards could be used in taxis, seems like more waffle from the ministers giving themselves a pat on the back for all the wrong reasons! He should have emphasised the new proposed changes which will keep convicted criminals out of taxis, or the ban on renting licences on their own and an obligation to notify the regulator of all vehicle rentings, also the proposed social welfare and revenue checks will be very welcome and should keep the illegal operators at bay!

My thoughts exactly, good old Alan Kelly and the shower of muppets who work for him

coylemj

Kitting out taxis to accept Leap Cards would be ridiculously expensive. The people who use Leap Cards are well clued into the public transport options and are probably the people who use taxis least so I don't see any justification for making taxi drives go to the expense of buying the necessary equipment.

My Leap car has very rarely over €20 on it so for the majority of the time it would not have sufficient funds to get me home from the city centre in a taxi.

Make taxi drivers buy decent cars instead, then I might use them.

bk

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Dublin Bikes are only a tenner a year, cant argue with that at all. Integrating it with Leap would be great in the sense that people would only need a single card, and you could take the odd 50c off your leap card if you went over the free 30 mins.

More just putting your membership ID on the LEAP card, so you don't have to carry two separate cards that end up interfering with one another.

You would still need to have an account set up with Dublin Bikes and any charges would be taken by Credit Card.

mmcn90 wrote: »

How would taxi's accepting LEAP be feasible. A taxi journey could cost over €30 in Dublin, when there is only a reserve balance of €5. I personally don't see it working.

Or it could be just €10, as it normally is for me. If you have no other way of paying, it is no different then if you end up not having cash on you, which often happens in Taxis. Normal procedure is to call into the house to get the cash (while leaving your phone or something else of value behind) or calling someone to bring the cash out.

It really isn't a big deal.

mmcn90 wrote: »

On the other hand I think all taxis should be forced to accept (contactless) credit & debit cards.

Agreed, this will be the big one, everyone will have contactless visa debit cards by the end of 2012, so this will change everything.

I'd personally prefer if they focused on getting other things to work on leap first like:

- A flat fare on Dublin Bus
- monthly/annual/t90 cards on leap.
- Leap on all Bus Eireann services, including Cork, Limerick, Galway, etc. city services *
- auto-topup
- capping
- transfers

* It worries me that they keep saying the Leap is only for the Greater Dublin Area, it is madness not to go for a the little extra expense to add it to Cork, Limerick, etc. They are doing that with RTPI, why not Leap.

Perhaps the reason is that these bus services are fixed fare and leap would work really well on them, so it would only end up showing up how inefficient Dublin Bus is.

bk

coylemj wrote: »

Kitting out taxis to accept Leap Cards would be ridiculously expensive. The people who use Leap Cards are well clued into the public transport options and are probably the people who use taxis least so I don't see any justification for making taxi drives go to the expense of buying the necessary equipment.

Likely the same equipment that will be needed to accept contactless credit/debit cards, will also work with LEAP. They both would use the same RFID reader, computer and internet connection to work. So really it doesn't add any extra expense.

The Taxi's were eventually going to have to add credit and debit card facilities anyway, as many cities are already doing it (Boston, New York, London) so it would be expected by tourists anyway. Adding Leap to it is a minor extra cost on top of the credit/debit card facilities.

BTW Public transport users use taxis as much if not more then drivers. As a person who doesn't own a car and normally takes public transport, taxi's are important when public transport isn't running (at night), doesn't go where you want it (e.g. cross city) or you have to carry lots of shopping, etc. In fact I'd say public transport users use taxis more then car owners.

As to the expense, this is actually a good thing, as the cost bar of entering the taxi business is far too low at the moment and means there are far too many taxi's on our roads.

If you read the article I linked to, you will see that this is one of only 40 or so changes to taxi regulations that are going to be made, to raise the cost and quality bar of getting into the taxi business, so that there will be less taxis and a higher quality of service.

I'm sure better cars is one of the recommendations.

Mr Simpson

bk wrote: »

Or it could be just €10, as it normally is for me. If you have no other way of paying, it is no different then if you end up not having cash on you, which often happens in Taxis. Normal procedure is to call into the house to get the cash (while leaving your phone or something else of value behind) or calling someone to bring the cash out.

I understand it does happen a fair bit with cash, but tbh, adding taxi functionality to the leap card is overcomplicating a system with which they are struggling to get the basics right. With the LEAP, I reckon they should stick to either Pre-paid tickets and fares which are paid for at the start of the journey. Adding in fares paid for at the end of the journey is just messy.

BTW I fully support the idea that the DublinBikes card be integrated into LEAP, it may require some hardware modifications, but I feel it should be easy enough to implement, although that means it should 'only' take 5-10 years to implement in Ireland :rolleyes:

wexford12

I have priced a visa machine from the bank and it comes in at €65 per month for a GPS one and €200 to set this up.
My worry would be apart from the cost of it would be how do you stop the customer getting his/her journey handing you the card and its declined "Oh sorry about that and iv no cash"

TiGeR KiNgS

Taxis and debit/credit cards.

Oh great, just another way for criminal gangs to skim my cards, except this time I'll actually hand them the card.

Doesn't The minister know that there is a huge amount of illegal taxis in Dublin ?

Some common sense would be nice.

foggy_lad

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Taxis and debit/credit cards.

Oh great, just another way for criminal gangs to skim my cards, except this time I'll actually hand them the card.

Doesn't The minister know that there is a huge amount of illegal taxis in Dublin ?

Some common sense would be nice.

RTE News mentioned one checkpoint set up recently in Dublin catching 16 illegal taxis over a few hours!

Credit cards wand Leap cards wont work in Irish taxis for so many other reasons, it is worse press than if they had announced a road and rail tunnel to the Isle of Man. Some of these ministers will say anything to get their picture in the papers!

Del2005

Would it not be better for LEAP to work on all CIE company vehicles first, then worry about something for Taxis?

It's silly that they want a Taxi driver in a small rural town to accept a card that the largest public transport company in the State won't accept outside the GDA!

Capt'n Midnight

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Taxis and debit/credit cards.

Oh great, just another way for criminal gangs to skim my cards, except this time I'll actually hand them the card.

Doesn't The minister know that there is a huge amount of illegal taxis in Dublin ?

Some common sense would be nice.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0131/taxi.html

Among the main proposals of the Department of Transport Taxi Review are an extension of garda powers and the removal of certain categories of criminals from the sector.

goingnowhere

mmcn90 wrote: »

I understand it does happen a fair bit with cash, but tbh, adding taxi functionality to the leap card is overcomplicating a system

Leap already has the ability to handle arbitrary value transactions, taxi support has been in the plans for ages. Ability to pay for your coffee and newspaper is also possible but then you are into banking license territory as its not longer transit only.

Mr Simpson

goingnowhere wrote: »

mmcn90 wrote: »

I understand it does happen a fair bit with cash, but tbh, adding taxi functionality to the leap card is overcomplicating a system

Leap already has the ability to handle arbitrary value transactions, taxi support has been in the plans for ages. Ability to pay for your coffee and newspaper is also possible but then you are into banking license territory as its not longer transit only.

I'm still not sure about it, if theres a solid no-fuss way to do it, then grand, but I just don't see it. I'd rather they ironed out the basic problems and got taxis to fit chip & pin. A large proportion of the population, and I'd say 99% of tourists, have debit & credit cards. I don't see the need for Leap in taxis

Carawaystick

coylemj wrote: »

The people who use Leap Cards are well clued into the public transport options and are probably the people who use taxis least

Cos no one'd want to use a taxi after 11:20 or before about 10 am on a Sunday so public transport is good enough....


The people clued into public transport will have a travel 90....

AngryLips

goingnowhere wrote: »

Leap already has the ability to handle arbitrary value transactions, taxi support has been in the plans for ages. Ability to pay for your coffee and newspaper is also possible but then you are into banking license territory as its not longer transit only.

When are you going to be able to use it to buy Ryanair tickets?

patthebus

They just. Need to stop the rental of plates because all the welfare
dodgers are renting

Dravokivich

wexford12 wrote: »

I have priced a visa machine from the bank and it comes in at €65 per month for a GPS one and €200 to set this up.
My worry would be apart from the cost of it would be how do you stop the customer getting his/her journey handing you the card and its declined "Oh sorry about that and iv no cash"

Someone posted up a picture of the screen from a Dublin Bus Machine in another thread here, it shows the balance of the card, as do Payzone units. So I'd be guessing (but fairly confident of this guess) that any reader provided to a taxi driver will also have this functionality.

Mrs OBumble

Carawaystick wrote: »

The people clued into public transport will have a travel 90....

A what???

steph1

patthebus wrote: »

They just. Need to stop the rental of plates because all the welfare
dodgers are renting

Thats a bit unfair! Not all those who rent are dodgy or dodging the taxman or claiming the social! There is a need for a rental market for those who find themselves in the position of hardly being able to make a living and then find themselves without a car because of an accident, mechanical problems that cannot be fixed easily etc.
All thats required is a properly regulated rental market ensuring that the person renting has the proper licence to drive a taxi, the proper insurance and that they are going to operate the vehicle in the area they are licensed for.

amacachi

Making them accept something that isn't legal tender would be a bloody joke. I'm all in favour of making taxiing competitive but forcing them all to take on an extra expense isn't the same as competition. If a firm wants to take it on then more power to them, see how many do it.

Losty Dublin

steph1 wrote: »

Thats a bit unfair! Not all those who rent are dodgy or dodging the taxman or claiming the social! There is a need for a rental market for those who find themselves in the position of hardly being able to make a living and then find themselves without a car because of an accident, mechanical problems that cannot be fixed easily etc.
All thats required is a properly regulated rental market ensuring that the person renting has the proper licence to drive a taxi, the proper insurance and that they are going to operate the vehicle in the area they are licensed for.

Some time ago, a taxi radio firm in Dublin wrote off to the Regulator during one of the consultation periods suggesting that all taxi plates and equipment along with a small fleet of spare cabs are held by them and leased longterm by drivers who met suitability criteria, held a clean PSV and appropriate insurance along with a suitable car to use. They got a stock reply letter back thanking them for their input and heard no more.

Another Dublin firm wrote off to them to suggest that the radio company's should hold all the plates and that drivers lease from them. They were invited to more formal talks to discuss this further, an idea that benefitted them as they coincidentally rented out over 100 taxis for up to €400 per week.

By co-incidence, the second firms owner sat on the Taxi Advisory Council while the first one didn't :rolleyes:

wexford12

I think they should get rid of all rental taxis might sound a bit harsh but if you want one Buy One. Its a can of worms of ways to claim Dole etc etc.

I think the only way you should rent a taxi is off the likes of Hertz and only short term if your taxi is off the road for repairs.

Midnightrunner

As a Taxi operator I have issue with a number of the new proposals. The idea that Leap would work in Taxis throughout the Country is simply another example of common sense gone wrong. I have no problem with Leap operating in a large City with an integrated transport system but to expect Taxis to fork out the inevitable cost of a system to operate Leap or Credit/Debit cards for use a few times a year is a ridiculous idea!

Terrontress

I am not sure that Leap is the correct method for it but cash-free payments in taxis are definitely needed.

Someone's card not authorising is the same as the guy who thinks he has a 50 in his pocket or only has a 20 or the guy who asks that he stops at the ATM to pay the taxi, only to find that he has no money in the bank.

Most businesses will support the taking of cash-free payments as it removes the risk of the storing, depositing, counting etc. of cash. While taxi drivers would benefit from this; some taxi drivers will feel that these methods begin to make their gross income visible so there is a clearer audit trail for the tax-man.

Do people feel that if you were able to pay by some payment card that passengers would be less likely to tip? You come to your destination, the meter says €28.60, ordinarily you would say "keep the change" as you hand €30 over but now you can just tap a card down and the money is transferred.

bk

Midnightrunner wrote: »

As a Taxi operator I have issue with a number of the new proposals. The idea that Leap would work in Taxis throughout the Country is simply another example of common sense gone wrong. I have no problem with Leap operating in a large City with an integrated transport system but to expect Taxis to fork out the inevitable cost of a system to operate Leap or Credit/Debit cards for use a few times a year is a ridiculous idea!

No, I'm sorry, but what is ridiculous is that in this day and age, you can't use a credit/debit card to pay for your taxi.

The reason you see so few people currently paying by card, is because everyone knows most taxis don't take card, so they go out of their way to bring cash. I know that taxi is literally the only reason I continue to carry cash.
But once people know that every taxi you get into can take card, you will see a very big shift to people wanting to pay by card.

Specially when it will be so quick and easy with those new contactless debit and credit cards that will be rolled out this year to everyone in the country with an ATM card. People will increasingly demand that they can pay by this everywhere.

Run_to_da_hills

I can see some good and bad points about Leap cards in taxis.

If your card is registered, the time of journey and movements will be logged and traceable as with any registered transit smart card.

It will help cut down on welfare and corporate fraud on false taxi fare claims and bogus receipts.

If a passenger tags on and pukes in the back of a cab he can be easily traced.

If you leave property such as a mobile phone behind it would be easy to pinpoint the cab in question.

Taxi drivers will no longer get tips from excess change..

It will help weed out illegal taxis if these machines become compulsory in all city cabs.