Pole On the Dole In a Hole Plays the Troll

AnonoBoy

Wattle wrote: »

This Magda should obviously be returned to Poland via a giant catapult. And see how many Africans you can fit on there while you're at it :mad:

Ah bless. You're the cynically mis-translated article's target market - Knee-jerk, reactionaries who like to comfort themselves that 'De Fordiners Are De Problem!' because it's easier than actually looking at facts and y'know, thinking about stuff.

"Duuuhhh.... thinking hurts my brain."








(if you're being sarcastic I retract the above!)

DarkJager

Would somebody mind showing me a link for a FAS course in Hawaiian massage?? I've looked but the only references to it are this story and it quite frankly sounds like bull****.

greimorm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Actually in the original article she says she wanted to start her own business but had been advised by her Welfare Officer to wait another 6 months. She would be starting her business with a grant (basically the dole for a few months while the business gets going).

God they should boot her out and send the that welfare officer packing aswell.:mad: Just because she was told to scrounge doesnt mean she should have,she knows right from wrong.

AnonoBoy

DarkJager wrote: »

Would somebody mind showing me a link for a FAS course in Hawaiian massage?? I've looked but the only references to it are this story and it quite frankly sounds like bull****.

http://www.fas.ie/en/Training/Traineeships/Traineeship+Courses/Personal+Service+Occupations/Beauty+Therapist+Traineeship.htm

It doesn't specify Hawaiian massage there but it does say Holistic massage and over here we see that Hawaiian massage is holisitic.

Jarren

Wednesday February 01 2012

Dear Editor,

I refer to the article “Welcome to ’good life’ on welfare – how Polish waitress embraced La Dole-ce Vita” published in the Irish Independent of Feb 1.

Firstly, let me focus on the article itself and on its level of inaccuracy relative to the original article (published in the magazine Wysokie Obcasy to the Polish daily Gazeta Wyborcza of Jan 29).

I wish to stress that the authors of the Irish article use the facts presented in the Polish article in a very selective and subjective manner. The subject ‘Magda’ states in the Polish article: “I have a big problem with being unemployed, I don’t want to live at the State’s expense and for that reason I use this assistance to allow me start up my own business”. I believe that this is the sentence that best summarizes the context of the original article and it is decidedly unfortunate that it has been omitted in your article.

In terms of her describing her life as ‘Hawaiian Massage’ , at no stage in this article does she make such a statement. What she actually says is that she has completed a FÁS course in Hawaiian Massage and that she’s planning to open a massage business next year. I think you can agree that this misrepresentation completely changes the tone of the article.

She also never describes the place where she lives as s***hole (in fact she loves it and is very passionate about it), she merely refers to other people saying that.

There are many other inaccuracies of that type throughout the Irish Independent article which could have been easily avoided if only the Polish article had been translated correctly or its content presented in a more objective manner.

I fully understand how potentially damaging this article might be to the good reputation that the Polish community has amongst Irish society and I ask your readers not to judge us on the basis of this solitary article. You have managed to get to know us well in recent years and you know our work ethic and our system of values which, I’m sorry to say, is inaccurately presented in this article published in the Irish Independent.

The decision to remain in Ireland that so many Polish people made in the recent years is a decision to make a valuable contribution to the Irish state by living and working here, integrating with the Irish society and being a part of it all in good times and bad. It’s impossible to imagine that this decision, sometimes a very painful one, is made on the basis of the level of unemployment benefit or other kinds of support granted to the jobless by the Irish State.

Polish people that come to Ireland are young, well educated, dynamic and ambitious people who make a conscious choice to settle down here. Their first priority in life is to make an honest living for themselves. I cannot say that people like Magda don’t exist – they do in every society and community around the world, including the Polish community in Ireland. On the basis of my personal experience with so many Poles living here, I can assure you that people like Magda constitute a very small minority of Poles in Ireland, and are in no way representative of the entire Irish – based Polish community.

The danger of an anti-immigrant atmosphere developing during harsh economic times is well-documented throughout history. I would hope that a major newspaper such as the Irish Independent would be conscious of this and take great care when fact-checking such a potentially inflammatory article.

Yours sincerely,

Marcin Nawrot

Ambassador

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/polish-ambassadors-response-to-irish-independent-article-3007331.html

AnonoBoy

greimorm wrote: »

God they should boot her out and send the that welfare officer packing aswell.:mad: Just because she was told to scrounge doesnt mean she should have,she knows right from wrong.

She actually didn't break any laws. If that's the reason you think she should be kicked out then I should be kicked out of the country too.

I set myself up as self-employed once and was told not to apply for money to buy a piece of equipment but rather to hold off a few months and apply for something more expensive as I'd be able to get it then.

All this 'they should be kicked out' nonsense is rather tiresome and yawn-inducing at this stage.

And now you're suggesting we kick out Irish citizens too? For f*ck's sake - change the bloody record.

greimorm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

She actually didn't break any laws. If that's the reason you think she should be kicked out then I should be kicked out of the country too.

I set myself up as self-employed once and was told not to apply for money to buy a piece of equipment but rather to hold off a few months and apply for something more expensive as I'd be able to get it then.

All this 'they should be kicked out' nonsense is rather tiresome and yawn-inducing at this stage.

And now you're suggesting we kick out Irish citizens too? For f*ck's sake - change the bloody record.

Yes she did,she quit her job then claimed the dole and didnt look for work,just sat back and is waiting till she scrounge some more money to open a business.You change the record.
There is a difference in paying taxes for years in Ireland and then getting laid off and waiting till you then can get a foot hold into the country in your own business.I dont care what way you see it.I see it as i see it.Both her and her welfare officer need dumping.

iamthe43

Jarren wrote: »

Dear Editor...misrepresentation completely changes the tone of the article...many other inaccuracies of that type throughout the Irish Independent article...anti-immigrant atmosphere developing...hope that a major newspaper such as the Irish Independent would be conscious of this and take great care when fact-checking such a potentially inflammatory article..

I think its fair to say he fairly hit the clit on the nail there...

cmat

god ur funny

micropig wrote: »

hawaiian massage?

AnonoBoy

greimorm wrote: »

There is a difference in paying taxes for years in Ireland and then getting laid off and waiting till you then can get a foot hold into the country in your own business.I dont care what way you see it.I see it as i see it.Both her and her welfare officer need dumping.

She had worked for years in Ireland and paid her taxes.

State why the welfare officer should be deported from his/her own country.

Should we start deporting our own citizens based on newspaper articles now? In that case I'm going to write me a load of articles and clear out all the c*nts I don't like since facts don't seem to matter any more. :rolleyes:

You can see it anyway you want but something tells me there's nobody in the country that gives a rat's arse what you actually think.

greimorm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

She had worked for years in Ireland and paid her taxes.

State why the welfare officer should be deported from his/her own country.

Should we start deporting our own citizens based on newspaper articles now? In that case I'm going to write me a load of articles and clear out all the c*nts I don't like since facts don't seem to matter any more. :rolleyes:

You can see it anyway you want but something tells me there's nobody in the country that gives a rat's arse what you actually think.

I think i mis read but two years she is in Ireland yes? And been out of work part of said two years.
God you are such a child good luck.

AnonoBoy

greimorm wrote: »

God you are such a child good luck.

Ah the old 'fall back to petty insults when all else fails' post came a lot quicker than expected.

greimorm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Ah the old 'fall back to petty insults when all else fails' post came a lot quicker than expected.

Wasnt an insult it was an observation when you start throwing dummy from buggy.

Explosions in the Sky

http://www.newstalk.ie/programmes/all/the-right-hook/ Lads listen live here to the debate

AnonoBoy

greimorm wrote: »

I think i mis read but two years she is in Ireland yes? And been out of work part of said two years.
God you are such a child good luck.

It doesn't state anywhere in either versions of the article as far as I can see how long she's been in the country.

greimorm wrote: »

Wasnt an insult it was an observation when you start throwing dummy from buggy.

Ah bless look at you there without a leg to stand on. Sure I haven't thrown anything from anything - I'm just pointing out the nonsense you're talking. A few posts ago you advocated deporting Irish citizens based on a newspaper article that might or might not be factually accurate at all.

Now, are you still advocating that mental tactic?

greimorm

Explosions in the Sky wrote: »

http://www.newstalk.ie/programmes/all/the-right-hook/ Lads listen live here to the debate

Oh no made radio

gbee

We had a clown letting in all the other people while other EU countries had limits.

AnonoBoy

gbee wrote: »

We had a clown letting in all the other people while other EU countries had limits.

Poland is another EU country. :rolleyes:

gbee

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Poland is another EU country. :rolleyes:

So?

greimorm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

It doesn't state anywhere in either versions of the article as far as I can see how long she's been in the country.



Ah bless look at you there without a leg to stand on. Sure I haven't thrown anything from anything - I'm just pointing out the nonsense you're talking. A few posts ago you advocated deporting Irish citizens based on a newspaper article that might or might not be factually accurate at all.

Now, are you still advocating that mental tactic?

How do you know she is Irish citizen,majority of Polish do not take up Irish citizenship as they like their own and dont need to.I said the welfare officer should be sacked for telling her to sit on her ass till she could get a grant.And i said she should be booted out for doing that rather than looking for work and saving it for herself.


I am listening to that radio show lol god the debates are always so funny lol

AnonoBoy

gbee wrote: »

So?

So in relation to this story it makes not an ounce of a difference as she's from Poland.

Laisurg

It's the indo so they probably twisted the words around a fair bit...

greimorm

gbee wrote: »

We had a clown letting in all the other people while other EU countries had limits.

No No NO,loads of my friends are working said jobs they applied for before they got here.It is the balance of jobs and people is off ratio and should have held the agreement of what was previously meant to be upheld.They must have a job before arriving and be filling said job market that there was not enough to fill in higher level.and the pay should not have been allowed be lower for non Irish as to Irish because then the companies took advantage of said loop holes.
But thats another thread.

gbee

AnonoBoy wrote: »

So in relation to this story it makes not an ounce of a difference as she's from Poland.

My last post was a quote more or less from the live radio.

As Poland entered the EU immigration from there was expected, other EU countries had restrictions for a few years and so on. In this particular case as this girl is here only two years, you are correct.

The quote is from a Monahan Councillor.

wolf moon

"After Magda’s life of leisure on the dole is proven false we ask…is the Irish Independent fuelling xenophobia?"

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/featured-5-slideshow-homepage/on-the-right-hook-today-5/


.. from the link above...

And here...

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/news/polish-ambassador-reacts-to-newspaper-article/

AnonoBoy

greimorm wrote: »

I said the welfare officer should be sacked for telling her to sit on her ass till she could get a grant.

I misunderstood that one then. When you said this:

greimorm wrote:

God they should boot her out and send the that welfare officer packing aswell

I took from the mangled sentence that you were advocating the same for both of them.

I am listening to that radio show lol god the debates are always so funny lol

Funnily enough the Monaghan county councillor reminded me of people like you. Ranty ranty rant without the facty facty facts.

greimorm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

I misunderstood that one then. When you said this:

I took from the mangled sentence that you were advocating the same for both of them.



Funnily enough the Monaghan county councillor reminded me of people like you. Ranty ranty rant without the facty facty facts.

Ok if you say so

AnonoBoy

gbee wrote: »

In this particular case as this girl is here only two years, you are correct.

Well she's been on the dole for 2 years but was working for years before that (at least according to a newstalk radio show I heard earlier). I can't see anything in the articles that states how long she's been in the country.

AnonoBoy

greimorm wrote: »

Ok if you say so

I do. And funnily enough you still haven't backed up your assertion that she has broken the law.

greimorm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

I do. And funnily enough you still haven't backed up your assertion that she has broken the law.

Two years on the dole no intention of looking for work,Is there no law against that?

Nodin

token101 wrote: »

No it's not odd at all, it's bandwagon politics and stirring the nationalistic pot. It's all ambassadors are .............in need of massive fundamental reform and savings. It should be a colour, race, creed, sexuality blind issue.

Blood pressure. You should get yours checked.

Considering the number of polish nationals in the country, its perfectly logical that the Polish ambassador would speak out on such a blatant piece of misrepresentation. Now, I know thats sticking reality in the way of your good old rage-boner, but thats the way it is.

AnonoBoy

greimorm wrote: »

Two years on the dole no intention of looking for work,Is there no law against that?

Not that I'm aware of. You can lose your entitlement to social welfare but you haven't committed a crime.

greimorm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

No. You can lose your entitlement to social welfare but you haven't committed a crime.

Doesnt that fall under fraud? False claims etc..

mikom

Rag.
Honestly, why do people still continue to buy these opinionpapers?

AnonoBoy

greimorm wrote: »

Doesnt that fall under fraud? False claims etc..

It's only a false claim if you're working/attending college or have lied in some way about your entitlement.

The woman had worked in the country and paid taxes. She was now unemployed and therefore entitled to the dole (even if she quit her job rather than be laid off it only disqualifies you for a while).

The 'not trying to find a job' thing is your interpretation of her situation. In the original article she states that she does not want to be on the dole but there are no jobs available.

This is what I mean about going on a rant without knowing the facts. Deporting someone who has not committed a crime is the sort of rabble-rousing foaming at the mouth sort of rhetoric that Monaghan councillor was spouting. It's unworkable, xenophobic and makes the person spouting it sound like they're not the full shilling because they haven't looked at the facts objectively but are just jumping on the bandwagon that will get the local 'wisemen' down the pub to say, "Fair play to him, at last someone's standing up to the bloody foreigners."

Freddie59

Is the article true or false?

If true, then the system is to blame. It is the system. Copy what they do in Poland. Pay the same amount. Deploy the same rules. End of problem. Simples.

gcgirl

If you believe in fairy stores you might believe it but alas it's a real cock up at the indo

AnonoBoy

Freddie59 wrote: »

Is the article true or false?

If true, then the system is to blame. It is the system. Copy what they do in Poland. Pay the same amount. Deploy the same rules. End of problem. Simples.

It's massively (and it looks like deliberately) mistranslated by the Indo.

Basically all the bits that have enraged people are made up.

greimorm

Freddie59 wrote: »

Is the article true or false?

If true, then the system is to blame. It is the system. Copy what they do in Poland. Pay the same amount. Deploy the same rules. End of problem. Simples.

Well you cant pay someone who lives here the same as they would get in Poland as that would be pure poverty in Irish living.

Who knows if it is factual or fiction.I would be thinking if factual then hiding her name what she got to hide,if fictional well it explains the not real name involved so the paper couldnt be sued. lol

oh btw how much do the ministers get paid in Poland anyway?

Cianos

Good response from the Polish embassy; http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/02/01/pole-axed/

greimorm

Cianos wrote: »

Good response from the Polish embassy; http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/02/01/pole-axed/

I think it might be a made up story now from polish reporter lol.I have searched Fas and cant find any such course.

AnonoBoy

greimorm wrote: »

I think it might be a made up story now from polish reporter lol.I have searched Fas and cant find any such course.

As per my earlier post:

http://www.fas.ie/en/Training/Traineeships/Traineeship+Courses/Personal+Service+Occupations/Beauty+Therapist+Traineeship.htm

Chinasea

I doubt if she wears pyjamas all day though.

mikom

Awaits the Indos response of "shur it was one of them 50 euro interns that translated it for us"

Warper

In fairness the Indo is just a glorified tabloid - its only good for lighting fires - awful paper

AnonoBoy

mikom wrote: »

Awaits the Indos response of "shur it was one of them 50 euro interns that translated it for us"

One of them unpaid interns we got off JobBridge!

Warper

Cianos wrote: »

Good response from the Polish embassy; http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/02/01/pole-axed/

Very good response. The article is inflammatory and the Indo should come out with a proper translation and apologise for their arrogance. The Indo has probably contributed to some poor Polish person getting verbally and maybe physically attacked.

qrrgprgua

Reading the Polish article (in Polish) it has nothing like the Irish one..



Seems like creative writing on the part of the indo...

mikom

AnonoBoy wrote: »

One of them unpaid interns we got off JobBridge!

But of course.

Bullseye1

The mistake people make when reading the Independent is believing it to be anything other than a rag. God the standard of journalism in this country is depressing.