Invalid noise complaints from neighbours - Where do I stand?

roast

To be honest, I'm not sure if this thread is more suited to this forum, or Legal Discussions. Mods, feel free to move this if necessary, thanks!

So, I live in a duplex apartment in the city center. The walls between the individual apartments are shockingly thin, thus pretty much everything can that happens in my apartment can be heard in the next (and vice-versa).

I've gotten new neighbours recently, and they've come to my door several times in the last few months, making absurd complaints about noise. Usually, it's because I'm up at ungodly hours making skype calls. They come over, complaining that I should shut up and go to bed. I'm never loud between the hours of 11pm to 8am, never. I retain a normal talking volume when I'm on Skype, it's not like I'm screaming down the mic at people. :P

The complaints are getting more and more frequent now, and the female came hammering on my door at three in the morning last week. She was completely irrational, I apologised to her, and explained that I was just talking, and that I wasn't making any noise. She proceeded to insult me, so I closed the door and bade her goodnight.
The next night, the male came over. Similar situation. Completely irrational. I told him that the structure is pretty poor, and that he has to expect hearing things from other apartments. I told them that they should take it up with their landlord if it is bothering them, and perhaps they can offer some assistance, in the way of soundproofing etc.

Any noise I'm making is within acceptable levels - but they don't agree with this. Apparently, they're doing exactly the same to their neighbour on the far side too! I'd completely understand if I was taking the mick, and blasting music, but that's not the case here. I'm starting to get worried about this, and I'm afraid that their irrationality will escalate. They won't discuss it with me, they just shout at me on my doorstep.

Where do I stand here? I'm entitled to the quiet enjoyment of my own home, and so are they. Surely this includes being able to talk at any time.

Thanks in advance for any assistance. Sorry for the long post.

Paulw

At night, every noise will seem louder because the place is so quiet. There's less background nose, such as TV, traffic, household appliances, etc.

If they keep hammering at your door you could always call the Gardai and report that there's someone hammering at your door.

Failing that, there actually might be very little you can do. Maybe use a room furthest away from their bedroom for your skype calls??

Ray Palmer

My understadning of the situation is pretty simple they have a valid complaint if they can hear you and it is not a "normal" time to be making noise.

The fault is with the structure but that isn't really any consolation to anybody. There was a discussion on the radio about it and legal people said there were complaints going back between lots of people on the same issue. The legal aspect of the law isn't specific about levels apparently and it is all subjective.

You should never engage with people late at night on the issue and you should call into them during the day and tell them to do the same from now on.

roast

Ray Palmer wrote: »

My understadning of the situation is pretty simple they have a valid complaint if they can hear you and it is not a "normal" time to be making noise.

The fault is with the structure but that isn't really any consolation to anybody. There was a discussion on the radio about it and legal people said there were complaints going back between lots of people on the same issue. The legal aspect of the law isn't specific about levels apparently and it is all subjective.

You should never engage with people late at night on the issue and you should call into them during the day and tell them to do the same from now on.

Surely talking isn't considered noise? More on this below...

Paulw wrote: »

At night, every noise will seem louder because the place is so quiet. There's less background nose, such as TV, traffic, household appliances, etc.

If they keep hammering at your door you could always call the Gardai and report that there's someone hammering at your door.

Failing that, there actually might be very little you can do. Maybe use a room furthest away from their bedroom for your skype calls??

Unfortunately there's no other room that I can use. My neighbour requested this too.

I should also add that one of the complaints from them was a month or so ago, when I had a chest infection. They came to my door asking me to stop coughing. It's my bedroom, I told them I couldn't help it.
I don't think I should have to relocate just because a neighbour doesn't like the fact that I talk/cough/fart etc. in the middle of the night, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

Ray Palmer

roast wrote: »

Surely talking isn't considered noise? More on this below...

I can only tell you what is the situation is according to what people were saying on the radio. It is a big problem in a lot of the housing recently built apparerntly especially in some of the social housing built. There really doesn't seem to be a solution without radical refurbs. The sound is probably traveling along joists and not simply airbourne.

djimi

Did the previous neighbours complain about your noise?

Could you maybe get someone to go into their house and see what the noise levels are like, or ask them to record it some night so you can hear it for yourself?

Assuming you are faithful in what you say about your behaviour and activity then it does sound like there isnt a lot you can do beyond soundproof your walls. You cant be expected to live in silence after 10pm (as in, no sound, talking, TV etc). All apartments have some level of noise from neighbours; even in my place which is well insulated I can still hear the people below me if they from time to time if they move a chair or something. It sounds to me like this is a problem with the structure of the building, and as such this is an issue between your neighbours and their landlord, not with you.

Mossess

This is really quite simple, you need to complain about their behaviour to the management company. Failing that, you need to get a hold of their landlords phone number and start ringing him/her every time they call around.

Rabidlamb

Bloody hell, I'd be playing jungle music Fr. Fintan Stack style if they came bothering me.
If it's a cough that bothers them then by definition it's down to the poor construction standards, not your fault.

CageWager

roast wrote: »

and the female came hammering on my door at three in the morning last week.

roast wrote: »

They won't discuss it with me, they just shout at me on my doorstep.

Worst noise complainants ever

roast

djimi wrote: »

Did the previous neighbours complain about your noise?

The previous neighbours complained once when I was playing music a little too loud at night-time, but in that particular situation, it was perfectly justified, and was dealt with quickly. Never another complaint.

djimi wrote: »

Could you maybe get someone to go into their house and see what the noise levels are like, or ask them to record it some night so you can hear it for yourself?

That's something I was considering doing, but then again, I can hear the same volume from them as they can from me, so I do understand where they're coming from.

djimi wrote: »

Assuming you are faithful in what you say about your behaviour and activity then it does sound like there isnt a lot you can do beyond soundproof your walls. You cant be expected to live in silence after 10pm (as in, no sound, talking, TV etc). All apartments have some level of noise from neighbours; even in my place which is well insulated I can still hear the people below me if they from time to time if they move a chair or something. It sounds to me like this is a problem with the structure of the building, and as such this is an issue between your neighbours and their landlord, not with you.

Aye, this is pretty much my thoughts on the matter too. I know there's no set limits on "reasonable" sound levels, but in this situation, do you think there's anything the landlords can do? We share the same landlord. I know there's no obligation for landlords to provide soundproofing, unfortunately. It is something that I have considered, but I don't really want to be out of pocket for something that the next neighbours might not give a hoot about.

CageWager wrote: »

Worst noise complainants ever

I know, right? :P

Thanks for all the replies thus far.

Mossess

You know, maybe it's a wake up call for you.
Why not move? If the walls are that bad why not move somewhere better. It's a renters market.

djimi

roast wrote: »

That's something I was considering doing, but then again, I can hear the same volume from them as they can from me, so I do understand where they're coming from.

Well then maybe let them into your place and let them see that you can hear exactly what they can hear. The biggest hurdle you face is getting them to understand that the problem is down to the actual building and not with anything that you are doing. If you can make them see that things are the same for you as they are for them then you can hopefully get them off your back.

roast wrote: »

Aye, this is pretty much my thoughts on the matter too. I know there's no set limits on "reasonable" sound levels, but in this situation, do you think there's anything the landlords can do? We share the same landlord. I know there's no obligation for landlords to provide soundproofing, unfortunately. It is something that I have considered, but I don't really want to be out of pocket for something that the next neighbours might not give a hoot about.

Im not sure what the landlord can do about the problem; what I meant was that the issue they have is with the quality of the building and that is an issue that they must take up with the landlord and one that they must discuss with him to find a resolution that suits them. In reality its not your problem, nor is there much you can do to resolve the issue.

Jehuty42

Mossess wrote: »

You know, maybe it's a wake up call for you.
Why not move? If the walls are that bad why not move somewhere better. It's a renters market.

People say this, but it is in fact very difficult to find places that are actually worth the hassle in terms of construction, landlord, price and location. Especially so for one person, in the city centre.

Also OP never said he was renting, sounds to me like he owns the place.

roast

Mossess wrote: »

You know, maybe it's a wake up call for you.
Why not move? If the walls are that bad why not move somewhere better. It's a renters market.

Since the neighbours have gotten worse, I've started to look for somewhere else. I quite like the apartment, I must say. Of course, there's much better out there, but nothing anywhere near the same price for the size.

djimi wrote: »

Well then maybe let them into your place and let them see that you can hear exactly what they can hear. The biggest hurdle you face is getting them to understand that the problem is down to the actual building and not with anything that you are doing. If you can make them see that things are the same for you as they are for them then you can hopefully get them off your back.

This is probably the best thing to do. I'd be hesitant to let them inside my apartment, but if needs must!

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Also OP never said he was renting, sounds to me like he owns the place.

Sorry, should have said! I am actually renting the place.

iguana

Maybe suggest to them that they download some white noise, like wave sounds, to their iPod/mp3 player and play it loudly on a speaker dock at night. It will drown out any reasonable noise from other apartments and lull them to sleep.

roast

iguana wrote: »

Maybe suggest to them that they download some white noise, like wave sounds, to their iPod/mp3 player and play it loudly on a speaker dock at night. It will drown out any reasonable noise from other apartments and lull them to sleep.

That's actually a pretty good idea!

I have some really decent Vater earplugs that I wear at gigs to lower volume and prevent hearing damage. I was kinda considering recommending those to the neighbours. They don't block out sound completely, but lower volume considerably.

Or, I could just wear them when they scream at me next. :pac:

UDP

OP, a friend of mine recently moved into a flat and is having a similiar problem whereby the person living below him came up and gave out at his door over noise they were making when they were unblocking a toilet. Then another time when they were using a hand blender at 11pm in their kitchen.

Really it is their problem if they are affected by reasonable noise they can hear due to bad construction - its not up to you to resolve the issue for them or to sound insulate your side.

Make it clear to them that you are not making excessive noise and that if they think you are then they should contact the management company and if they come to you once again you will be reporting them to the Gardai for harrassment.

Let them move if they cannot handle the "noise".

djimi

UDP wrote: »

Then another time when they were using a hand blender at 11pm in their kitchen.

Im not sure Id consider that to be "reasonable noise" to be fair...!

athtrasna

djimi wrote: »

Im not sure Id consider that to be "reasonable noise" to be fair...!

I would disagree...a hand blender would be used largely for making purees..maybe for a baby, maybe for someone who was unwell. Our development rules state no noise audible from outside the unit between midnight and 8am and I can't see many circumstances where someone could legitimately make a complaint outside those hours (save a burglar alarm which has a separate room)

OP I would certainly complain to your landlord or the management agent about the harassment from these neighbours (the MA isn't obliged to deal with tenants but often will). Check what your lease says about noise and if it says certain times like ours do..my instinct would be to make lots of noise for a week in the permitted time so that when you go back to normal after a week they'll be glad of the peace

djimi

athtrasna wrote: »

I would disagree...a hand blender would be used largely for making purees..maybe for a baby, maybe for someone who was unwell. Our development rules state no noise audible from outside the unit between midnight and 8am and I can't see many circumstances where someone could legitimately make a complaint outside those hours (save a burglar alarm which has a separate room)

Depends on the appliance and the location of the kitchen I suppose. I have a hand blender which is quite loud (I dont know if its abnormally loud or not) and my neighbours kitchen adjoins our bedroom; if they were using my hand blender in their kitchen I know I wouldnt be getting much sleep! I dont care what they are using it for; noise is noise, and unless it an emergency (which using a hand blender never will be) then there is no excuse for it. If its needed for making baby food or whatever it could be done before 10pm to be fair.

jackal

You are being far too polite! Next time they come to the door, run them and tell them that what you do between your own four walls is your business, you will contact Gardai if they harass you again, and tell them to take it up with the management company if they have issues with soundproofing in the apartment.

Homes are places where people live. Life goes on inside, hoovering, cleaning, blending, cooking, talking, laughing, riding, sleeping and anything else one wants to do in their home.

Beyond refraining from needlessly noisy activities during the hours most people sleep, I would not waste another minute worrying about these overly sensitive neighbours.