This is fracking unbelievable, restart the gravy train, Leitrim to the rescue

pcworldisajoke

nedzer2011 wrote: »

Perhaps my phrasing was a bit off.. apologies.

The aggressive tone however is unwarranted and is typical of some of the shouting, bordering on intimidation that we've seen in this thread. Terrible debate.

nedzer there was no aggressiveness there...ask irrelevent questions and you'll get plain old fashioned direct resposes. Dont be trying to undefmine the issue by calling foul when theres no foul.

there hasnt been one example given as to how this process could benefit anyone but the companies and politicians. If youre so in favour of fracking, maybe youve got some answers.

Paddy De Plasterer

Leitrim has already been destroyed by tree planting, wind turbines, and overflowing septic tanks - it has the largest pollution rate in the country, its drinking water is nearly as bad as Galway, where Captain O Cuiv rules the roost.

pcworldisajoke

Paddy De Plasterer wrote: »

Leitrim has already been destroyed by tree planting, wind turbines, and overflowing septic tanks - it has the largest pollution rate in the country, its drinking water is nearly as bad as Galway, where Captain O Cuiv rules the roost.

paddy the issue isnt leitrim. Its anywhere in the country. Tourism wise it wont matter a toss either. We're a tiny nation...joe american, pierre frenchy, pedro spaniard, and sakimoto japanese will see one thing - fracking...ireland...i thought that place was green....im going somewhere else. Agriculture exports have all of the above applying also. We are one country not a series of counties.

nedzer2011

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

there hasnt been one example given as to how this process could benefit anyone but the companies and politicians. If youre so in favour of fracking, maybe youve got some answers.

Firstly, I never said than I'm in favour so don't know where you got that from - I'm on the fence and trying to remain objective but the manner in which the anti-frac side are debating isn't helping matters.
Benefits? Without going into detail they simply are jobs, revenue and energy security. If you would like me to explain in more detail I will.

There are drawbacks, but nowhere near the level stated by some. I've debated at length on other similar threads - not sure if I've the energy to rehash everything!!

pcworldisajoke

nedzer2011 wrote: »

Firstly, I never said than I'm in favour so don't know where you got that from - I'm on the fence and trying to remain objective but the manner in which the anti-frac side are debating isn't helping matters.
Benefits? Without going into detail they simply are jobs, revenue and energy security. If you would like me to explain in more detail I will.

There are drawbacks, but nowhere near the level stated by some. I've debated at length on other similar threads - not sure if I've the energy to rehash everything!!

energywise- i feel where youre coming from Nedzer. Ive seen your other stuff on other threads and i dont think youre lying- just misinformed.

The impact on tourism, our image abroad, the possible effects of spills (that have happened with alarming frequency around the world), and the negligible impact on jobs makes this just a bad option for Ireland. Couple that with the fact that we wont control the gas, nor how much we pay for it, and it's a no brainer- we should wait for better tech in years to come.

And the notion that one well will produce 600 jobs, as has been put forward by some , is an example of the disinformation im talking about.

The way forward for this country, the way to get a much needed tourism boost- is to say Hello world, there will never be fracking here- Ireland will stay as it is. The current public profile of fracking aborad would mean this message would have an instant impact. This way, we keep our current jobs, and get a who.le hell of alot more. With fracking, it's lose lose no matter which way things go.

And the whole world is forgetting about green energy, including our government- which is what we should really be concentrating on. Our government are lackeys though, and theyre thinking of themselves, and after politics.

If someone can give me a good argument against us differentiating ourselves and saying to the world- NO FRACKING HERE, JUST ONE MORE REASON TO COME VISIT IRELAND, i'd like to hear it.

nedzer2011

I wouldn’t say I’m misinformed, just trying to stay objective at all times. The figure of 600 jobs for one well isn’t as far off as you might imagine. The first installation would directly and indirectly require somewhere near to this figure – the mistake here would be to assume that this would directly upscale for each well added.
I’m starting to agree that there may be an impact on tourism if fraccing were to go ahead but this is where things get interesting…

There is a massive perception issue out there – the majority of people are convinced that fraccing=pollution and would therefore think less of Ireland as a clean/pure travel destination if it were to go ahead.
What convinces them? It’s the loud scaremongering of sometimes ill-informed campaigners. Even if it were categorically proven that fraccing didn’t pollute (which may happen!!) we would have this perception and it’s not likely to go away in a hurry.

Maybe its best wait a while to proceed with fraccing in this country until we know for certain about potential harm – but there’s no point in forming a concrete opinion until we do.

Mycroft H

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

energywise- i feel where youre coming from Nedzer. Ive seen your other stuff on other threads and i dont think youre lying- just misinformed.

The impact on tourism, our image abroad, the possible effects of spills (that have happened with alarming frequency around the world), and the negligible impact on jobs makes this just a bad option for Ireland. Couple that with the fact that we wont control the gas, nor how much we pay for it, and it's a no brainer- we should wait for better tech in years to come.

And the notion that one well will produce 600 jobs, as has been put forward by some , is an example of the disinformation im talking about.

The way forward for this country, the way to get a much needed tourism boost- is to say Hello world, there will never be fracking here- Ireland will stay as it is. The current public profile of fracking aborad would mean this message would have an instant impact. This way, we keep our current jobs, and get a who.le hell of alot more. With fracking, it's lose lose no matter which way things go.

And the whole world is forgetting about green energy, including our government- which is what we should really be concentrating on. Our government are lackeys though, and theyre thinking of themselves, and after politics.

If someone can give me a good argument against us differentiating ourselves and saying to the world- NO FRACKING HERE, JUST ONE MORE REASON TO COME VISIT IRELAND, i'd like to hear it.

Honestly man, you should send your CV to Tamboran as I'm sure they would love to hear where you save so much money by not hiring 600. You've mentioned 60 as a probable figure and to be honest, even the smallest drilling operation would require more then 60 people. Your mad.

If you can point to me to where a gas field of this size was drilled, constructed and maintained by 60 people, I will buy a hat and eat it.

Your forgetting that this will be no small operation, there is at least 2.2tcf of gas down there. Thats more then the Kinsale and Corrib Gas field put together.

And its very hypocrytical of you to claim that other people are fogging the arguement by going off topic. Your the one who brought Bertie and Coillte into the arguement. Thats just as off topic.

pcworldisajoke wrote:

Hi Mossad. Can you tellme...how many unknown chemicals are pumped with millions of gallons of water into a zinc mine? How many chemical runoffs are possible into the water tables of the biggest underground aquifer in the country? How many zinc mines were proposed? Was it one, or was it a few hundred 200 metre long eyesores?

Your comparison is completely irrelevant. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury please disregard the comments of the gentleman from the Mossad. He's trying to muddy the waters of what is already a difficult subject to decide upon.

Major Fail Mossad.

And lets mention Tara Mines while we're at it. Tara mines is the fifth largest zinc mine in the world and has one of the best records as regarding to environmental impact and pollution. If you don't believe me (And I suspect you dont, as you disagree with anything that goes againsint your veiwsto the point of being redicious) have a look at an EPA report regarding the mines.


Your spouting complete rubbish at this point. And any credibility you had is now gone and your reduced to looking like a tree hugging pseudo environmentalist

Any additional groundwater flow from the extension into Nevinstown and Liscartan is
not expected to alter the overall chemistry of the discharge. The new orebody is
geologically and geochemically identical to the orebody in the main Tara Mine and,
therefore, there will be no significant difference in the water chemistry. (Ref AMC,
Nevinstown Geotechnical Study, 2003).


http://www.epa.ie/licences/lic_eDMS/090151b2803b745e.pdf

recylingbin

So, all the septic tanks have to be inspected to make sure they're not polluting the environment (to pay Anglo's debts in other words) but pumping chemicals into the ground is fine.

WTF?

pcworldisajoke

bx19- i never said anything about 60 people. What you on about??

i did put a link up of a well and asked someone to explain where 600 jobs clme from. Can you answwr that one ? thanks

pcworldisajoke

BX 19 wrote: »

Honestly man, you should send your CV to Tamboran as I'm sure they would love to hear where you save so much money by not hiring 600. You've mentioned 60 as a probable figure and to be honest, even the smallest drilling operation would require more then 60 people. Your mad.

If you can point to me to where a gas field of this size was drilled, constructed and maintained by 60 people, I will buy a hat and eat it.

Your forgetting that this will be no small operation, there is at least 2.2tcf of gas down there. Thats more then the Kinsale and Corrib Gas field put together.

And its very hypocrytical of you to claim that other people are fogging the arguement by going off topic. Your the one who brought Bertie and Coillte into the arguement. Thats just as off topic.




And lets mention Tara Mines while we're at it. Tara mines is the fifth largest zinc mine in the world and has one of the best records as regarding to environmental impact and pollution. If you don't believe me (And I suspect you dont, as you disagree with anything that goes againsint your veiwsto the point of being redicious) have a look at an EPA report regarding the mines.


Your spouting complete rubbish at this point. And any credibility you had is now gone and your reduced to looking like a tree hugging pseudo environmentalist

jesus, back up the hysterical truck there BX19. I never said 60 jobs for the whole field- and saying i did say that is either lies or plain silliness. I'm talking about per well, which has been quoted. Now maybe they meant 600 in total...sure that sweet f*ck all really with all the tourism we'll lose, and the loss of international buyers for what were perceived to be quality agricultural products.

i never said tara mines was bad, so stop putting words in my mouth. I said it was irrelevant to fracking. Whole different ball game- as different as Football to Rugby. Never once did i say tara was bad. You're openly telling lies there by saying i had a problem with tara mines.

And Bertie sealing Coilltes assets by law is very relevant. It's an example of a politician in office doing something that he tried to benefit from AFTER political office. That's relevant here, because decisions could be taken that wont benefit anyone but the companies and the politicians after office with sweet consulting positions etc. It happens openly in the US, it hass happened here, and it will happen again .We'll pay the market rate for gas- end of story. And we'll see sweet f*ck all revenue.


Youre really losing the run of yourself BX19, i suggest you take a breath there and calm down. You're saying i said things which i didnt. Then youre saying i've lost all credibility because i said things which i actually havent'.

I think you're the one losing credibility, you sound pretty desperate at this point. Anything ive said is all backed up on the last few pages and unedited since yesterday or the day before for spelling mistakes.

MOSSAD

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

Hi Mossad. Can you tellme...how many unknown chemicals are pumped with millions of gallons of water into a zinc mine? How many chemical runoffs are possible into the water tables of the biggest underground aquifer in the country? How many zinc mines were proposed? Was it one, or was it a few hundred 200 metre long eyesores?

Your comparison is completely irrelevant. Ladies and gentlemen of the jury please disregard the comments of the gentleman from the Mossad.:) He's trying to muddy the waters of what is already a difficult subject to decide upon.

Major Fail Mossad.

What's the first thing that comes to mind with the word lead or heavy metals? I've put this to several people and the answers are lead poisoning ,toxicity, contaminated groundwater, to name but a few. "Mining" evokes a similar response.
Tara Mines/Boliden is located in the best agricultural ground. There has been no loss of production/quality of agri produce in the area since this enormous deposit was tapped. My point is that today with so many uninformed twits out there, it wouldn't stand a chance in hell.
An independent geologist on Frontline spoke of the disinformation out there about fracking. Those geologists I know are educated and by necessity have a good scientific grounding.
Show me the poisoned water from Tara and the resultant human casualties and the environmental degradation implicit in your response to my post.
If it were so, I'd expect the entire population of Meath to react like you-notably a severe decline in mental functioning-were they suffering from lead poisoning.
Ten years ago in Co Clare, the first windfarm was proposed. The anti-windfarm group put out the following information: Cattle would be driven mad by the noise, groundwater would be contaminated, pregnant women, were they to look upon a spinning turbine wiould spontaneously abort....need I say anymore?
It appears that those who shout loudest may win the day- personally I want a scientific weighing of the pros and cons of fracking, and if it can be done in an environmentally safe way, with the significant royalties benefitting the landowner and the exchequer, then frack away.
You appear to be oblivious to the increasing raft of restrictions on landowners who attempt to make a living from the land, but who are prevented by a lazy one size-fits all approach to environmental protection.
A road construction project in Clare has just been postponed because a frog colony is spawning....how about removing the spawn to a safer place? Problem solved.
PS your antisemitic undertone is also noted

Eric Cartman

if the government got a euro for every time pcworldisajoke said 'muddy the waters' then maybe the fracking wouldnt be needed

yermanoffthetv

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

[1]The impact on tourism, our image abroad, the possible effects of spills (that have happened with alarming frequency around the world), and the negligible impact on jobs makes this just a bad option for Ireland. Couple that with the fact that we wont control the gas, nor how much we pay for it, and it's a no brainer- we should wait for better tech in years to come.

[2]And the notion that one well will produce 600 jobs, as has been put forward by some , is an example of the disinformation im talking about.

[3]The way forward for this country, the way to get a much needed tourism boost- is to say Hello world, there will never be fracking here- Ireland will stay as it is. The current public profile of fracking aborad would mean this message would have an instant impact. This way, we keep our current jobs, and get a who.le hell of alot more. With fracking, it's lose lose no matter which way things go.

[4]And the whole world is forgetting about green energy, including our government- which is what we should really be concentrating on. Our government are lackeys though, and theyre thinking of themselves, and after politics.

If someone can give me a good argument against us differentiating ourselves and saying to the world- NO FRACKING HERE, JUST ONE MORE REASON TO COME VISIT IRELAND, i'd like to hear it.

[1] You know whats worse for our tourism, our crap roads,binge drinking and ripoff prices (caused in part by high energy prices!) Yes the enviroment is exremely important and pressure should be applied to make sure the highest standards of safeguards are in place and projects are regulary monitered by the EPA.Energy diversity is needed to insure more competition, security and lower prices.If your so bothered about ownership of the gas why arent you out lobbing for they government to develop a energy semistate company?

[2] Hmm ill admit id be sceptical about that figure too but if you look and indirect jobs eg catering, security, haulage, admin etc id say you would get a few hundred if you looked at a complete supply chain.

[3] The current public profile of Ireland is were broke and economy is in a bad way, the empty shops are an eyesore and hurting or image. A few turbines and some eco-rambelers isnt going to save us. The way forward is getting investment in and showing everone were open for business. With more cuts on the way maybe the tax revenue could save some services or could be given as business startup grants.
[4] Nobody is forgetting about green energy. It makes alot of sense, but its not enough on its own.

Your last statement is a bit daft. Id dont think anyone would say "Im not going to Ireland, they frack there!" hows about that for an arguement?

Mycroft H

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

bx19- i never said anything about 60 people. What you on about??

i did put a link up of a well and asked someone to explain where 600 jobs clme from. Can you answwr that one ? thanks

Well you sorta did. Now unless my maths is wrong a tenth of 600 is 60.

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

And the notion that one well is going to employ 600 people is the most bizarre stat ive heard in a long long time. The number wont be a tenth of that. This stuff would never be profitable if that were the case.

Honestly 600 is a reasonable figure for whole entire operation. There is going to have to be a lot of qualified skilled personnel for a drilling operation, people like geochemists, engineers, seismology experts, hydrologists and thats only for the pre drilling phase. Your forgetting that the truck drivers that move equipment about, the maintenance specialists to maintain the turbines used for fracking and the administrative personnel behind that. Plus indirect jobs to electricians, pubs, shops ect ect. Its really not that easy to imagine those filling a number of 600.

tuppence

Have a goo at this to give a bit of context, the industry getting challenged by Mark Cagney.

http://www.tv3.ie/ireland_am.php?video=44956&locID=1.65.74

Have a look at these peer reviewed reports. There are compiled by concerned people in Leitrim, no agenda just protecting ourselves and our families, and hoping that you will be too. The American EPA report isnt due out til 2013 but the initial Wyoming report down the page is scary reading as its preliminary findings links fracking industry with pollution, with polutants like benzene and arsenic. These local people have had gas companies denying, denying denying culpability and forcing people to bring lawsuits, which is how these companies sadly seem to operate.

Now in Ireland our agrifood industry was worth 8.9 billion in 2011 alone according to recent press release by Simon Coveney, its our good news story, its overachieving. If we were to find benzene in our livestock our food industry would implode. Its potentialy one of our sustainable industries that could be displaced by fracking. The new Chinese market that we are trying to court wont differentiate between Leitrim and Laois if things go wrong, and maybe pull out before then if we were to go ahead and leave ourselves open to risk ...would you blame them? We have a green brand in farming and tourism that makes us marketable lets keep it, It makes economic sense. And thats before we get into public health cos sadly no one seems to care. (that to me says something in itself )

http://frackingfreeireland.org/reports/

emo72

jesus christ. cant believe this is even been considered. our agri, our tourism, our greenness is far more valuable.

tuppence

And then for those who would like to join us in Leitrim, in what is a national issue. This is up to date. Thankyou.

http://frackingfreeireland.org/info-to-download/flyers/

Eric Cartman

emo72 wrote: »

jesus christ. cant believe this is even been considered. our agri, our tourism, our greenness is far more valuable.

Its not like fracking automatically makes letrim ugly and slaughters all your cows and burns farms , greenness - hah , ireland producing its own energy for once would be nice

NakedNNettles

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

And the whole world is forgetting about green energy, including our government- which is what we should really be concentrating on. Our government are lackeys though, and theyre thinking of themselves, and after politics.

If someone can give me a good argument against us differentiating ourselves and saying to the world- NO FRACKING HERE, JUST ONE MORE REASON TO COME VISIT IRELAND, i'd like to hear it.

Green energy isn't cool enough for this country, too clean and too efficient, it's a form of energy for the middle classes. Can't be havin' that in Ireland! :rolleyes:

Now gas on the other hand has us all getting our hands dirty, sH*t water and a sh*t environment, plenty of machinary pumping and pushing with the added bonus of some chemicals that would put a good curry to shame ...a hard days work and all that, look how hard we are, HAVE IT!

F**k treehuggers, hug a gas pipe.

Check out Ardle1's post, he da (educated) man.

ardle1 wrote: »

I dont beat around the bush, and I'm an educated man,, as you speak,, you are obviously a tree hugger "no offence" ... GET MINING AND GET DRILLING A.S.A.P,,, .... Oh by the way we have an environment have we,, I've seen the Great Barrier Reef on TV!!!

For the record i'm against fracking .....but just looking at it from a fracking frackers point of view.

MOSSAD

skinny90

MOSSAD wrote: »

His excuses sound familiar to those on this thread

tuppence

And the pro fracking brigade say that the antifracking side are obsessed with Gasland!! :rolleyes:

Genghiz Cohen

tuppence wrote: »

And the pro fracking brigade say that the antifracking side are obsessed with Gasland!! :rolleyes:

Are there any pro-fracking people on here?

mikeym

After watching the video it leaves me wondering.

1. Were will the waste water be treated?

2. Leitrim cant handle the influx of articulated trucks the road infrastructure is way too sub-standard.

3. Pumping chemicals into the ground is surely going to have an impact on the local farming community.

4. What happens if there is an accident and is there safeguards to prevent potential accidents.

I really hope the government dont rush into this because it could lead to the destruction of small rural communities.

pcworldisajoke

i love how the pro frackers all put thanks to each other on here, at the bottom of your lying posts.... bx, cartman, mossad. It's like you're desperate to show that whatever rubbish was posted has an audience.

You're all mad. And you consistently misrepresent what people said.

i never said tara was bad (yet its all you keep banging on about to detract from the fact there's no good reason to Frack), i never said there'd be 60 jobs ( i said there'd not be one tenth of 600). But either youre too stupid to understand that, Or else you think people reading the thread are too stupid to realise you're talking lies, and you feel they'll believe anything you write.

It's clear you have absolutely no good reasons we should frack in this country. You're some seriously daft sounding people. You've had so many opportunities to say something relevant, but instead you continue to 'muddy the waters' intentionally.

It's not working. Irish people are not stupid.

nedzer2011

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

i never said there'd be 60 jobs ( i said there'd not be one tenth of 600).

By far the most childish comment I've come across. Ridiculous stuff.

But either youre too stupid to understand that, Or else you think people reading the thread are too stupid to realise you're talking lies, and you feel they'll believe anything you write.

So you're accusing those of us, who are trying to put across balanced and objective points of view, of either telling "lies" or being "stupid"? My God.

It's clear you have absolutely no good reasons we should frack in this country. You're some seriously daft sounding people. You've had so many opportunities to say something relevant, but instead you continue to 'muddy the waters' intentionally.

There are good reasons, all of which you continually ignore or brush aside without due thought or consideration. If there were no good reason to frack, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

cooperguy

Genghiz Cohen wrote: »

Are there any pro-fracking people on here?

Me!

The problems with it are hugely overblown. You will always find people complaining when something new and not understood by the public comes to town.

MOSSAD

[
1. Were will the waste water be treated?

2. Leitrim cant handle the influx of articulated trucks the road infrastructure is way too sub-standard.

3. Pumping chemicals into the ground is surely going to have an impact on the local farming community.

4. What happens if there is an accident and is there safeguards to prevent potential accidents.

I really hope the government dont rush into this because it could lead to the destruction of small rural communities.[/QUOTE]

Build better roads in Leitrim-surely it deserves them.
One does not necessarily have to pump chemicals into the ground.
Re.accidents- what happens if a car or an aircraft crashes?
In case you hadn't noticed, small rural communities have been declining for years. On my road 12 families are gone in 40 years, and there are 6 occupied houses, one of these by a family that moved in.
The greatest threat to rural communities is the misinformed, patronising behaviour of people who move in and decide to tell those of us that own the land and who make a living from it what we should and should not do.

MOSSAD

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

You're all mad. .

Were you looking in the mirror when you came up with that nugget?:p

Eric Cartman

mikeym wrote: »

video

I stopped watching that video after yer wan the 'organic farmer' came on , to be fair thats just eco nut bias right there.

There is no such thing as entirely clean energy , and fracking is pretty low on the rungs of destructive potential, coal mining for instance takes up far more of an area , is far louder, causes subsidence and is louder and the end product is worse for the eviroment

films like gashole or the above are always going to exist stating problems in a fashion even the daily mail would call extreme. If one of those directors made a film about a car , even michael bay would be jealous of the amount of explosions theyd use.

see , theres already ones about wind farms :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBHvwthQxXk

Genghiz Cohen

Eric Cartman wrote: »

see , theres already ones about wind farms :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

That is amazing...
In a bad way.:D

Genghiz Cohen

cooperguy wrote: »

Me!

The problems with it are hugely overblown. You will always find people complaining when something new and not understood by the public comes to town.

I think the people here are blowing it out of proportion but I do have some concerns about the process. So far I'd still be up for it though.

ardle1

NakedNNettles wrote: »

Ya! You're a real straight talkin' no BS kind of lad, fair play! :rolleyes:

An educated man you say, you seem more like a bull in a china shop, to hell with everyone, money money money....lets worry about the consequences later. Basically the very things that drove this country up onto the rocks.

Yeah we have an environment, it's all around ya.

Gas lobby are pushing hard on this fracking recently, there in trying to take advantage of our dire situation. Anyway if it it all goes tits up you can be sure the gas boys gone as quick as their legs can carry them, they won't be paying out for any clean up.

Country's in a mess, let's not make it worse.

Look I see what your trying to say and I see what "drove this Country onto the rocks" and it wasn't money money money it was INVISIBLE money money money,, look this is "FOR REAL" money money money "HARD" cash cash cash It must go ahead without delay, and without or at least minimal protest.

ardle1

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

energywise- i feel where youre coming from Nedzer. Ive seen your other stuff on other threads and i dont think youre lying- just misinformed.

The impact on tourism, our image abroad, the possible effects of spills (that have happened with alarming frequency around the world), and the negligible impact on jobs makes this just a bad option for Ireland. Couple that with the fact that we wont control the gas, nor how much we pay for it, and it's a no brainer- we should wait for better tech in years to come.

And the notion that one well will produce 600 jobs, as has been put forward by some , is an example of the disinformation im talking about.

The way forward for this country, the way to get a much needed tourism boost- is to say Hello world, there will never be fracking here- Ireland will stay as it is. The current public profile of fracking aborad would mean this message would have an instant impact. This way, we keep our current jobs, and get a who.le hell of alot more. With fracking, it's lose lose no matter which way things go.

And the whole world is forgetting about green energy, including our government- which is what we should really be concentrating on. Our government are lackeys though, and theyre thinking of themselves, and after politics.

If someone can give me a good argument against us differentiating ourselves and saying to the world- NO FRACKING HERE, JUST ONE MORE REASON TO COME VISIT IRELAND, i'd like to hear it.

The impact on tourism,, image abroad,, oh yeah am not goin to France this year because of their laws on FRACKING,, ,,,sorry, I've been to France 5 times mmmmm Poland 3,, what I'm trying to say is Even if I booked a holiday 5 years in advance,, fracking would not have been mentioned in the dos and donts SORRY:D Hope this doesn't sound to cruel, but I'm actually laughing my head off at the thought of it SORRY:D

nacho libre

Eric Cartman wrote: »

i never said lefties....

and I have watched gasland, a very biased documentary by a borderline eco nut. but what that documentary fails to point out is that all those people affected get their water from deep underground wells and in a very close proximity to the fracking, aswell as the rock composition below being different in all places. Also Haliburton arent exactly the most caring company

A lot of letrim would have piped water or shallow well group schemes.

The US and Europe have entirely different sets of rules on how to take natural resources out of the ground.

and on the 2nd part - yeah, drugs, prostitution, guns - legalise it all and tax it to the hilt

while there were inaccuracies in Gasland, the concerns of people in the documentary have been backed up by impartial scientific research. In Leitrim people will be living close to the fracking process.

What Tamboran and their Daily Mail cheerleader don't bother to mention is the danger of radioactive material being mobilised during the fracking process. Tamboran will say the process is safe, but the fact is if they use chemicals that cannot be guaranteed.

Why stop at legalising drugs, guns and prostitution? how about paedophilia? that could be a huge money spinner too.

the point is if you always priortise the economic benefit of an activity above everything else we are on a slippery slope and have lost our moral bearings.


Back to fracking:
It was very interesting to hear the energy analyst on the Frontline say he wouldn't live in Leitrim till the EPA issued their findings on the matter. So he obviously wasn't entirely convinced that the process is safe. It maybe the EPA back up your thoughts on the matter. I'm not convinced for the moment. Afterall for all I know you could be a representative for Tamboran or someone who stands to make money from this process going ahead in Ireland.

grenache

Rabidlamb wrote: »

I wonder if those Ghost Estates up in the North-West might be restarted.
Probably not cause there in NAMA, it'll take 6 years & 4 reports to recognise an opportunity in front of their faces.

FYP.

Not to be a pedantic ba$tard, but Limerick/Clare/North Tipp are the Mid-West.

RichieC

Yer first mistake is taking Cartman seriously tbh.

Mycroft H

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

i love how the pro frackers all put thanks to each other on here, at the bottom of your lying posts.... bx, cartman, mossad. It's like you're desperate to show that whatever rubbish was posted has an audience.

You're all mad. And you consistently misrepresent what people said.

i never said tara was bad (yet its all you keep banging on about to detract from the fact there's no good reason to Frack), i never said there'd be 60 jobs ( i said there'd not be one tenth of 600). But either youre too stupid to understand that, Or else you think people reading the thread are too stupid to realise you're talking lies, and you feel they'll believe anything you write.

It's clear you have absolutely no good reasons we should frack in this country. You're some seriously daft sounding people. You've had so many opportunities to say something relevant, but instead you continue to 'muddy the waters' intentionally.

It's not working. Irish people are not stupid.

I always said I had yet to make my mind up on the idea, however I will be doing it in a intelligent matter by weighing the pros and cons of each side unlike yourself there.

And saying that we misrepresent what people have said? Bollocks to that. None of what anything I have said is based on heresay and sensationalistic statements. Again unlike yourself.

Eric Cartman

nacho libre wrote: »

Why stop at legalising drugs, guns and prostitution? how about paedophilia? that could be a huge money spinner too.

paedophelia abuses children who do not have the knowledge to consent, women who choose to be prostitutes, an adult choosing to use a drug , and owning a gun for self defense with a vetting process are in no way similar to paedophelia.

pcworldisajoke

cooperguy wrote: »

Me!

The problems with it are hugely overblown. You will always find people complaining when something new and not understood by the public comes to town.

its not new and it is understood. theyve been tearing the arse out of the US with it since 2005. It's understood to be incrediby unsafe, completely unregulated so far, and of negligible economic benefit to both the exchequer and communities on the gournd. It could ruin anything good we have.

So it's NOT overblown.

nedzer2011

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

It's understood to be incrediby unsafe, completely unregulated so far

Hearsay and sensationalistic statements eh!!!!!!


For all of our benefit, please expand on these comments. Some of us prefer fact rather to opinion. Others find it difficult to distinguish.

scotty_irish

ejmaztec wrote: »

I can hear the flip-flopping of ten thousand crusties swarming towards Leitrim.

ssshh it's all an elaborate hoax to get all the crusties in one place that nobody cares about and then nuke 'em.

jimmi10

Ireland is very reliant on other countries for energy supplies. Carrying out fracking in Leitrim could provide many jobs for Irish people and give us a degree of energy security.

Fracking should be carried out in tandem with investment into renewable energy sources such as wind, hydro, geothermal, biomass and use of fossil fuels as a combination of all these energy sources.

The people carrying out the design of the processes are trained engineers and scientists who know what they are doing. I highly doubt they wish to destroy the Irish countryside.

Frack away I say!

nedzer2011

Came across a Hydrogeological Risk Assessment carried out by a regional council in New Zealand which assesses the risks to groundwater posed by Hydraulic Fracturing.

Given that it's a governmental department (and presumably impartial) the findings are encouraging?

What do people think?

bogmanstar

CALL IT LIKE IT IS – UNDERGROUND DIRTY BOMBING
A more accurate way to describe "fracking" would be to call it "underground dirty bombing" - that's literally what they're doing. The volume of fluid in a hydrofrack can exceed three million gallons, or almost 24 million pounds of fluid, about the same weight as 7,500 family cars. The fracking fluid contains chemicals that would be illegal to use in warfare under the rules of the Geneva Convention. This all adds up to a massive explosion of a ‘dirty bomb’ underground.
See: http://newyork.sierraclub.org/SA/Vol40/Fracksplosion.htm
THE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF JOBS THAT WOULD BE CREATED – ME ARSE!
The “jobs” figures are the usual un-specific PR bull**** to boost these cowboys’ share prices.
I’ve worked in start-ups and I’m afraid there are a lot of happy clappy pro-frackers who are very flucking naïve about the sh1te that’s going on here. Moorman and his wee company are going for more funding later this year. Every positive headline – such as “meeting with Irish parliament” – he can generate adds more quids to his share price. In the run up to an investment, start-ups will blow as much smoke up the ass of everyone who’ll listen as possible – they’ll talk up jobs, reserves, revenues, benefits etc – it’s his retirement plan, at Ireland’s expense. Our govts, North and South, are out of their depth at best, too weak and corrupt at worst, to deal with these sharks. In the South, the last govt bankrupted the place through dopey decision-making, and don’t bet against our current heroes poisoning the place, again through dopey decision making. The govt in the North is even more naïve – remember, these are guys who spent most of their adult lives arguing about flags. They’re clueless about how business operates and have a starry-eyed view of any snake-oil seller spouting vague crap about jobs. They’re even more vulnerable to this fracking claptrap in a downturn.
I work in an engineering / projects company. We build large scale construction projects. Once the frack holes are dug, you’ll need a couple of people to monitor a few screens; maybe employ a night watchman and that’s about it. Long term jobs; god look to your wit; WISE UP! You’ll lose far more in tourism jobs and revenue than you’ll ever create with this hyped-up rubbish. Currently, stressed-out city types come to Fermanagh’s Lakelands to spend money and to chill out. I work with these kind of people and the single biggest draw for them is Fermanagh’s unspoilt environment. They don’t come for 5 star hotels, fancy nightclubs etc. They have better at home. What they don’t have is a clean, quiet, beautiful environment. That’s what they’re prepared to pay to experience. They can’t get that at home. Those of you who are lucky enough to live in such an area clearly don’t appreciate it and have a very poor idea of its real monetary and amenity value if you are prepared to wreck it forever for the sake of 5 or 6 years gas revenues into the pockets of a couple of foreign chancers. Maybe you can explain why discerning tourists will be interested to come to breath in polluted air, drink polluted water, listen to hundreds of trucks coming and going, catch radioactive fish (if there’s any left) and take in the sight of upwards of 3000 oil derricks scarring the landscape every 2 miles? These people are well off and they’ll vote with their feet. This is tourism suicide. Bye bye tourism Leitrim / Fermanagh.
One decent pharma or IT company would provide more jobs in a year than these poisonous chancers would provide in ten lifetimes.

THE ROLE OF PS OPS IN BRAINWASHING THE PUBLIC
You’re aware of the important role that psychological operations units carry out in armies? They brainwash and demoralise enemy populations to help their troops win the war. That’s fair enough – when you’re at war. However, the Gastapo sh1ts in the fracking companies are using military ps ops personnel to push through their fracking agenda. They are on record as viewing the local population as “insurgents”. In their mindset, it literally is war folks.
See:
http://www.texassharon.com/2011/11/09/psyops-gasholes-caught-with-their-fracking-pants-down/
And there you were thinking that everything was all about “the facts” ... god help your innocence.
BUT FRACKING HAS BEEN DONE FOR YEARS, RIGHT?
Fracking has been carried out for many years; but mainly for conventional “pooled” fields where the fracking and extraction can be controlled. In dispersed shale fracking, they go down and then SIDEWAYS underground for up to a mile and then blast out a sludge comprising water mixed with hundreds of thousands of tons of toxic chemicals – over 500 of them – in all directions. In the US, methane gas and propants have been found miles away from where they were introduced. The shale fracking process is designed to be an underground wrecking ball. When carried out to that scale so far underground, you don’t have to be an engineering genius to work out that it’s not technically possible to control underground secondary contamination in the way that the frackers PR stooges will tell you. If fracking was confined to a single fracture of deep shale, that action might be relatively OK. However, when multiple “fracks” are done in multiple, adjacent wells, the risk of contaminating drinking water becomes a near-certainty. At that point, if you’re living in or near the frack zone, you’d better pray you’re just lucky.
ISN’T IT CLEAN?
It’s way dirtier than coal. Fracking companies will tell you about how clean the gas is. Yes, in the sense that it burns cleaner than coal. However, in terms of extraction emissions and environmental damage, the a-z process is dirtier than coal and more dangerous.
ANARCHY FOR FRACKERS
The fracking companies in the US have secured important exemptions from clean air and clean water legislation, pushed through by oil-man Dick Cheney. Currently, they are not required to disclose what’s in the chemicals they pump into the ground. If the process is so clean, what are they hiding?
NOBODY CLEANS UP AFTER FRACKERS
One of the reasons fracking companies make money is that they operate to very low standards. They are not required to put up any bank security to guarantee clean up works after they’ve left. Typically, the clean-up work, to the extent that it even can be done, considering the scale of the destruction and the generally irreversible nature of it, is picked up by what’s left of the local communities. In the US, after they contaminated people’s water supplies, they sent round a few water trucks for a few weeks and then stopped coming. Once the media moved on, the locals were on their own.
SHALE GAS HAS POOR YIELDS
In the US, they have been over-stated by up to 80%. Shale gas fields have poor yields. Unlike pooled resources where reserves can be calculated with some accuracy and where output remains stable before tailing off; shale gas output tends to be peaky – a big rush of gas at first followed by a rapid dropping off. After a few years, it’ll all be gone; the cowboys will be rich and Leitrim and Fermanagh’s gullible locals will be living with the fallout.
BREATHE IN SOME CRAP FOR MOORMAN
Air quality also can suffer: “benzene was present at levels as much as 55 times higher than allowed by the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ). Similarly, xylene and carbon disulfide (neurotoxicants), along with naphthalene (a blood poison) and pyridines (potential carcinogens) all exceeded legal limits, as much as 384 times levels deemed safe. See: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=shale-gas-and-hydraulic-fracturing
HERE’S A STUDY FRO MANCHESTER UNIVERSITY
Note a recent report from Manchester University (there’s 87 pages, I know that’s a lot of reading, especially for some of the poorly-informed simpletons who support fracking):
http://tyndall.ac.uk/sites/default/files/tyndall-coop_shale_gas_report_final.pdf
See conclusions p 74:
"There is a clear risk of contamination of groundwater from shale gas extraction.” Is that good enough for you?
HOW THE FRACKERS RUINED THE LIFE OF A MAN WHO FOUGHT FOR HIS COUNTRY – DOES THIS GUY LOOK LIKE A “LEFTIE” TO YOU?
Finally, read the story of how a fracking company polluted a Vietnam veteran’s water supply and his health:
http://www.propublica.org/article/hydrofracked-one-mans-mystery-leads-to-a-backlash-against-natural-gas-drill/page1
HANDY BLOG DE-BUNKING FRACKING
http://www.crystalbard.co.uk/wordpress/?p=687

nedzer2011

bogmanstar wrote: »

I know that’s a lot of reading, especially for some of the poorly-informed simpletons who support fracking)

Theres no need for insulting people!!!!!!!

gbee

pcworldisajoke wrote: »

It's not working. Irish people are not stupid.

Frankly, the opposite is clearly evident. Irish people demonstrate themselves to be even more stupid than most of the rest of the world.

sbsquarepants

Came across these the other day. Frak this shít:mad:

http://static1.consumerist.com/%21%21%21%21%21frack.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMS8VsG2LSY

token101

I know nothing about his as it looks like a boring health and safety story. But I'll take a ill informed stab in the dark and guess, Leitrim is saying, 'Oh this will impact tourism, blah, blah, blah'. Well I don't think Leitrim is going to clear 55 Billion in tourism in 55 billion years. So I say, we sell Leitrim to the Saudis, pay off the debt, resume the Celtic Tiger party, build a **** off rainbow rollercoaster in Phoenix Park with a green suited Michael D handing out a real pot of gold to everyone at the end and watch and laugh at the news as all the culchies go around in burqas, as life intended.

loveisdivine

nacho libre wrote: »

the point is if you always priortise the economic benefit of an activity above everything else we are on a slippery slope and have lost our moral bearings.

There are not enough people in the world that have the sense to realise this. Its all money money money.
It worries me that there are so many people out there that are pro-fracking, it makes me question societys morals.