GAME in serious trouble

gizmo

Tayla wrote: »

Amazon actually do take trade ins but not only from people with UK addresses.

Amazon prices were significantly lower than RRP before they began accepting trade-ins though. What makes the difference there is the fact that they're, well Amazon, so will have stronger purchasing power then it comes to dealing with distributors.

As for whose "fault" second hand sales are in this context, well Gamestop made over $400m profit (on the back of $9.47b sales) in fiscal 2010, around half of which was from second hand sales, so it's not like they'd be struggling without them. The motivation on their part is profit, nothing more and nothing less. They are, after all, a company and are there to make money.

Azza

Went into Game today to get a refund on SFxT Special Edition pre-order. They told me they are still stocking it.

theteal

Azza wrote: »

Went into Game today to get a refund on SFxT Special Edition pre-order. They told me they are still stocking it.

my guess would be that the news hasn't filtered down yet. when it does I can see the monster.ie web site being very instantly popular among game staff if not already, poor baxtards, that must be a horrible shadow hanging over all affected

NakedNNettles

cloud493 wrote: »

I dunno. Think there'll always be a place for bricks and mortar distribution. Maybe not shops dedicated to it though. I for one, am not a fan of digital distribution, for example.

Sorry to burst your bubble man, but its all about the profits.

Think how much extra cash these game companies will save through online distribution, no more packaging, no more disks, no more third parties, distributor and retailer both cut from the deal, the product will go directly from the game company to the customer.

Added to this, the technology is developing faster every year, look how far the internet has come in 10 years, think another 10 years on that. There is no way I can see retailers like Game in the industry.

Pacing Mule

gizmo wrote: »

As for whose "fault" second hand sales are in this context, well Gamestop made over $400m profit (on the back of $9.47b sales) in fiscal 2010, around half of which was from second hand sales, so it's not like they'd be struggling without them. The motivation on their part is profit, nothing more and nothing less. They are, after all, a company and are there to make money.

That's a world wide result - you will find that the UK / Irish operations profit (or loss as the case may be) margin split is very differently.

FutureGuy

NakedNNettles wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble man, but its all about the profits.

Think how much extra cash these game companies will save through online distribution, no more packaging, no more disks, no more third parties, distributor and retailer both cut from the deal, the product will go directly from the game company to the customer.

Added to this, the technology is developing faster every year, look how far the internet has come in 10 years, think another 10 years on that. There is no way I can see retailers like Game in the industry.

And most importantly, it will kill the second hand game market, which is costing developers hundreds of millions.

Grumpypants

FutureGuy wrote: »

And most importantly, it will kill the second hand game market, which is costing developers hundreds of millions.

And kill off the massive levels of new games sales also costing them hundreds of millions.

Nody

Grumpypants wrote: »

And kill off the massive levels of new games sales also costing them hundreds of millions.

Honestly if Steam is anything to go by the direction these days are either a full RRP (i.e. 50 EUR or there abouts) for the big titles or 20 and below for smaller once and it works. I'm very very rarely paying the full price to be first (last game was December 2010 iirc) but I've bought hundreds of euros of games that cost 20 and below simply because at that price if it strikes my fancy I'll buy it (and picked up a ton of gems doing so).

Latest example was Plants vs. Zoombies; it has been on sale down to 5 EUR a few times but I decided I wanted it last week and paid 10 EUR for it with out blinking because at that price even with a discount of 50% it is not enough for me to care

gizmo

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

That's a world wide result - you will find that the UK / Irish operations profit (or loss as the case may be) margin split is very differently.

Any idea what that split is?

Andy!!

Grumpypants wrote: »

And kill off the massive levels of new games sales also costing them hundreds of millions.

Unlikely.

Welease

NakedNNettles wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble man, but its all about the profits.

Think how much extra cash these game companies will save through online distribution, no more packaging, no more disks, no more third parties, distributor and retailer both cut from the deal, the product will go directly from the game company to the customer.

Added to this, the technology is developing faster every year, look how far the internet has come in 10 years, think another 10 years on that. There is no way I can see retailers like Game in the industry.

It's not always quiet as simplistic as that.. Many of those companies (and I was involved with one) don't actually run their own global hosting and distribution for digital sales, so they still end up outsourcing all those elements incl. marketing of the products/service.. You don't pay for a disks, box and a truck to deliver, but you do pay for a server, bandwidth, support and online payment processing etc. to deliver.

Paparazzo

There'll always be a place for bricks and mortar shop. When people want a game on release day, it's the best way to get it imho.
As for downloading games, next gen consoles will have to give much bigger hard drives if they want people to do this. And as said before, broadband speeds will mean it's a no no for lots of people.
I definitely perfer a physical disc and I'd be happy to pay a bit more money for one.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116144-Capcom-Ditches-GAME-As-Possible-Closure-Looms

End times...

Pacing Mule

gizmo wrote: »

Any idea what that split is?

No tbh - I don't have insider information on their exact sales levels but at an educated / experienced guess I'd say it's around 90% / 10% in favour of pre owned.

Blowfish

Paparazzo wrote: »

There'll always be a place for bricks and mortar shop. When people want a game on release day, it's the best way to get it imho.

How do you figure that one? If I want to play something on day 1, I can play it 2 minutes after midnight if I get it digitally and takes a grand total of about 4 clicks. If I was to get it in a bricks and mortar shop I'd have to get up early the next morning, travel to shop, stand in queue, travel home again etc. There's no contest when it comes to ease of purchase.

Paparazzo wrote:

As for downloading games, next gen consoles will have to give much bigger hard drives if they want people to do this.

Possibly, but not necessarily. For a start, if they are moving to digital distribution, there's no need for an optical disk. This would reduce the cost in one area and allow more to be spent on the HDD instead.

Saying that, I wouldn't be the least suprised if 'console' gaming ends up eventually just being a streaming service instead. This will eliminate a huge amount of the hardware cost completely, even making it possible just to incorporate it as part of a TV and have the ridiculously nice advantage of being usable across all formats. i.e. mobile devices etc.

Granted none of this is going to happen partuclarly soon, definitely not in the generation coming, but I could easily see it starting to be pushed for the next one.

gizmo

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

No tbh - I don't have insider information on their exact sales levels but at an educated / experienced guess I'd say it's around 90% / 10% in favour of pre owned.

Hmm, I'm curious, why do you think there's such a massive difference between Gamestop US and Ireland/UK in this regard?

Pacing Mule

gizmo wrote: »

Hmm, I'm curious, why do you think there's such a massive difference between Gamestop US and Ireland/UK in this regard?

It's a very different market here in Ireland / UK than the states (and indeed mainland europe) The price cutting from RRP of new titles is not as heavy elsewhere. The games themselves in the states are a different product for a different territory (NTSC / PAL etc) - price structures and RRP's are localised to the markets. Just because the currency conversion works out doesn't mean that the cost price has too if you get me. Gamestop US retails their games closer to full RRP and therefore has a resonable margin built in that isn't here.

Andy!!

gizmo wrote: »

Hmm, I'm curious, why do you think there's such a massive difference between Gamestop US and Ireland/UK in this regard?

US Gamestop are notorious for being utter cnuts in general. And their amoral practices regarding pre-owned sales are legendary. Surprised a gamer was still unaware of this. A quick search on kotaku will blow your mind.

gizmo

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

It's a very different market here in Ireland / UK than the states (and indeed mainland europe) The price cutting from RRP of new titles is not as heavy elsewhere. The games themselves in the states are a different product for a different territory (NTSC / PAL etc) - price structures and RRP's are localised to the markets. Just because the currency conversion works out doesn't mean that the cost price has too if you get me. Gamestop US retails their games closer to full RRP and therefore has a resonable margin built in that isn't here.

None of that really explains why you'd consider the ratio of new to pre-owned sales to be greater over there than over here though. For instance, Modern Warfare 3 is $59.99 new and $54.99 pre-owned in Gamestop US whereas in Gamestop UK it's £41.97 new and £26.97 pre-owned. Going by figures like these do you not think it'd be more accurate to assume that the pre-owned market would be more popular over here?

Andy!! wrote: »

US Gamestop are notorious for being utter cnuts in general. And their amoral practices regarding pre-owned sales are legendary. Surprised a gamer was still unaware of this. A quick search on kotaku will blow your mind.

Read up again. I'm well aware of their practices, I was referring to Pageant Messiah's opinion that the ratio of new to second hand sales would be higher on this side of the Atlantic.

super_furry

As an interesting aside to all the digital distribution v retail talk, Sony will be releasing the promising Vita shooter Unit 13 via PSN tomorrow, while it won't be available at retail until Friday.

It'll cost €34.99 on the PSN Store and be at the least a five cheaper in shops.

cloud493

super_furry wrote: »

As an interesting aside to all the digital distribution v retail talk, Sony will be releasing the promising Vita shooter Unit 13 via PSN tomorrow, while it won't be available at retail until Friday.

It'll cost €34.99 on the PSN Store and be at the least a five cheaper in shops.

They never do it consistently though. Mass effect 2 was 60 pounds on the store when it first came, driver san francisco too.

Paparazzo

Blowfish wrote: »

How do you figure that one? If I want to play something on day 1, I can play it 2 minutes after midnight if I get it digitally and takes a grand total of about 4 clicks. If I was to get it in a bricks and mortar shop I'd have to get up early the next morning, travel to shop, stand in queue, travel home again etc. There's no contest when it comes to ease of purchase..

Again, you're forgetting that many people have rubbish broadband and download limits. And network and site problems when a big game is out, and if you have a console the likes of Steam isn't much use.
Bricks and mortar shops are the best option for most gamers.

super_furry

cloud493 wrote: »

They never do it consistently though. Mass effect 2 was 60 pounds on the store when it first came, driver san francisco too.

Perhaps but they've stated several times that Vita software will be cheaper to download than to buy retail at launch. The bigger news here is that not only will it be cheaper but it'll be available earlier too, further adding to the likes of GAME's problems.

Penn

Blowfish wrote: »

How do you figure that one? If I want to play something on day 1, I can play it 2 minutes after midnight if I get it digitally and takes a grand total of about 4 clicks. If I was to get it in a bricks and mortar shop I'd have to get up early the next morning, travel to shop, stand in queue, travel home again etc. There's no contest when it comes to ease of purchase.
Possibly, but not necessarily. For a start, if they are moving to digital distribution, there's no need for an optical disk. This would reduce the cost in one area and allow more to be spent on the HDD instead.

Saying that, I wouldn't be the least suprised if 'console' gaming ends up eventually just being a streaming service instead. This will eliminate a huge amount of the hardware cost completely, even making it possible just to incorporate it as part of a TV and have the ridiculously nice advantage of being usable across all formats. i.e. mobile devices etc.

Granted none of this is going to happen partuclarly soon, definitely not in the generation coming, but I could easily see it starting to be pushed for the next one.

If I want a game, it's far quicker for me to drive 10 miles to the nearest Xtra-Vision (half an hour to the nearest Gamestop), buy the game and drive home than it is for my sh*tty broadband speeds to download a game. Not to mention that if I do want to download a full, proper PS3 game, I'd probably have to leave my PS3 on for several hours, unable to watch DVDs on it or play games (as they stop the downloading), or leave it on all night and have to listen to it whirring. Until broadband speeds throughout the country are improved, there will be a place for brick & mortar shops.

And as for downloading the game, what if you need to make room on the HDD for something else so delete it (even if you could re-download it for free). If you decide you want to replay it, you have to wait for the whole thing to download again. And modern games take up a fair bit of memory. I think Assassin's Creed 1 (which we got free with AC:R) was over 8GB to download. That was an early PS3 game. Newer ones could be over 10GB each. These things build up.

I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it won't happen for a while, not with our broadband speeds.

Pacing Mule

gizmo wrote: »

None of that really explains why you'd consider the ratio of new to pre-owned sales to be greater over there than over here though. For instance, Modern Warfare 3 is $59.99 new and $54.99 pre-owned in Gamestop US whereas in Gamestop UK it's £41.97 new and £26.97 pre-owned. Going by figures like these do you not think it'd be more accurate to assume that the pre-owned market would be more popular over here?


Read up again. I'm well aware of their practices, I was referring to Pageant Messiah's opinion that the ratio of new to second hand sales would be higher on this side of the Atlantic.

I do believe we are mistakenly debating the same side

I am of the opinion that the pre owned market here is far greater than in the states and that profits from pre owned sales here form a lot higher of a percentage of overall profit than the approx 50% you had referred to.

When you said

gizmo wrote: »

well Gamestop made over $400m profit (on the back of $9.47b sales) in fiscal 2010, around half of which was from second hand sales, so it's not like they'd be struggling without them.

I took it that you meant they would not be struggling if pre owned sales were taken out of the equation as half their profit comes from new games. I was pointing out that this was an overall figure for the groups operations and that the percentages here in Ireland / UK are not split down the middle at all. If pre owned sales were stripped out of the Irish operation it would be a very different story than in the US.

gizmo

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

I do believe we are mistakenly debating the same side

I am of the opinion that the pre owned market here is far greater than in the states and that profits from pre owned sales here form a lot higher of a percentage of overall profit than the approx 50% you had referred to.

When you said

I took it that you meant they would not be struggling if pre owned sales were taken out of the equation as half their profit comes from new games. I was pointing out that this was an overall figure for the groups operations and that the percentages here in Ireland / UK are not split down the middle at all. If pre owned sales were stripped out of the Irish operation it would be a very different story than in the US.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh yes, that makes way more sense.

Mr Trade In

Unit 13 is €39.99 in Gamestop and Smyths(€35.99 with a loyalty card). I don't see it being less than €34.99 in any stores for a wHile at least.

ShadowHearth

super_furry wrote: »

As an interesting aside to all the digital distribution v retail talk, Sony will be releasing the promising Vita shooter Unit 13 via PSN tomorrow, while it won't be available at retail until Friday.

It'll cost €34.99 on the PSN Store and be at the least a five cheaper in shops.

i have to say i was impressed with psn pricing of VITA games. i prefer to have digital copies of games for vita, because of how fragile vita games are and that swaping them is really pain in a hole.
with current ps vita game pricing on psn i go for digital version!

robinph

Think I must have a couple of quid on my Game card. To wait until the closing down sale and go in to pick up some cheap bargain, or bin the card and save space in my wallet? Will probably cost more in petrol to get to the shop than would be saved on any game.

Vadakin

I was in Game in Cork today and they still had pre-order displays up for Street Fighter X Tekken. I talked to one of the staff about it but they didn't seem to know that Game wasn't going to be stocking it. One person did ask about Mass Effect 3 and they were told that Game didn't know if they'd have it in the future and that in all probability they'd only have it as a used game if someone traded it in.