Unions Demand Return Of Teachers Allowances

micropig

Now I need summer holidays because my stress levels are up

*Checks to see wtf they are teaching on the HDip??

micropig

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Here we go...:) Bah, Im going to bed. First class at 9 40am, don't want to be late!

Hope you in the school at 8am preparing for your day ahead:p

oppenheimer1

Rocksteadykk wrote: »

I'm a trainee teacher at the moment...it's bad enough the NQT's getting hit with the paycuts now they are taking away any incentive for teacher's to take part in any professional development. I agree that cuts need to be made...but what I don't think is fair is that it's always the NQT's taking the brunt of the cuts. These are the people with no power or support and no voice within the unions. So basically the unions will throw us to the dogs while they work away happily on their excellent salaries (including their allowances). I don't think it's fair that 2 teachers qualifying within one year of one another can earn possibly 6-7k in the difference...where's the equality in that?

No they're not taking away the incentive for further studies. You'll get the same reward for further studies as everyone else, faster career progression.

lestat21

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

No they're not taking away the incentive for further studies. You'll get the same reward for further studies as everyone else, faster career progression.

What career progression?? Theres no such thing as department head in ireland and theyve gotten rid of the majority of the posts of responsibility, guidance coucillors and resource hours... From what your post we can infer that teachers wont be payiing 10,000euro or more for professional development until theyre in the running for assistant principal positions

crapmanjoe

cursai wrote: »

Thats silly and ridiculous to propose such a low wage.. Petrol to work could cost €60 a week or more or less. Other costs of working could bring that down again.
The Social Welfare is €190 for Chri4ts sake. Why would they work for this little.

Live near the school = lower petrol costs (if I hear the cost of petrol being brought into these sorts of arguements any more I'll... explode :mad:)

Analysing whether its "worth" working because of the social welfare you could be getting is an absolutely shocking and disgusting attitude. Without getting into a dole bashing argument, it needs to be cut so people will take the low paid jobs that they "couldn't be bothered going now" - there is just no incentive to take a low paid job.

Back on topic I'm actually not opposed to teachers receiving an allowance for being more qualified (which I take as being more intelligent and hard working). Go after other public services sectors were people receive an allowance for qualifications. As an e.g. I have a friend who is a Guard and he receives an allowance for having an IT degree (and the man can honestly barely turn on a computer). Makes absolutely no sense that he receives this allowance for a completely unrelated qualification.

micropig

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Sigh. I don't think I specified anybody in particular but I guess this post can be identified as ridiculous beyond belief.

1) Authority is important but because expulsions still happen, it does not guarantee cooperation. The most authoratative teacher in Ireland has had at least one student that they couldn't discipline.

2) 'Boring'. This is a word at least one student per class has used/will use to describe every poet/novel/play and movie I have done and probably ever will on the English syllabus. And I fail them for it. And your use of it here deserves the same treatment.

3) Teachers can't compete with Playstations. No argument there. What's your point? When parents don't care, children can play the computer for 10 hours a day. A secondary school teacher will see them for 40 minutes. I have no idea what this means at all. Do you think it's bad teaching to expect a student to sit reasonably still for 40mins with a book and a copy and do some work? Or could that possibly be the student's problem and not the teacher's?

Yes because this is constructive. The students are giving you feedback about their learning experience, which you planned. Listen to your pupils. Take it as constructive criticism and use this to improve you teaching in the next lesson.

Get ideas from them about what it would make it less boring for them and try to incorporated it. Kids have great ideas about lessons and if they complain their bored, you can remind them that they had some input in to the lesson;)


Yes lets fail children because their teacher can't be bothered putting an effort in to planning an interesting lesson, take their feedback on the lesson and use it constructively. It must be very frustrating for the children.:rolleyes:

lestat21

crapmanjoe wrote: »

Live near the school = lower petrol costs (if I hear the cost of petrol being brought into these sorts of arguements any more I'll... explode :mad:).

Thats not really fair. Teachers are often marrying and settling down before they have a permanent job. Its normal for teachers to accept a job thats over an hour from their home... and very often theyre not on full time hours!!

micropig

lestat21 wrote: »

Thats not really fair. Teachers are often marrying and settling down before they have a permanent job. Its normal for teachers to accept a job thats over an hour from their home... and very often theyre not on full time hours!!

Oh I agree not fair on the teachers, they need their pertrol money don't you know. Because everyone else has a job in the attic of their house.:(:(:(:(:(:confused:

LighterGuy

Of course the unions demand this.
They got to justify the weekly deduction from a pay check they get

micropig

LighterGuy wrote: »

Of course the unions demand this.
They got to justify the weekly deduction from a pay check they get

Well they better start coming up with justification for the length of the holidays & the quality education that the children seem to be getting:D:D

K-9

cursai wrote: »

Thats silly and ridiculous to propose such a low wage.. Petrol to work could cost €60 a week or more or less. Other costs of working could bring that down again.
The Social Welfare is €190 for Chri4ts sake. Why would they work for this little.

Because you get pay increases as a teacher, not likely in the foreseeable future on the dole. People should look to the future, not the present.

lestat21

lestat21 wrote: »

crapmanjoe wrote: »

Live near the school = lower petrol costs (if I hear the cost of petrol being brought into these sorts of arguements any more I'll... explode :mad:).

Thats not really fair. Teachers are often marrying and settling down before they have a permanent job. Its normal for teachers to accept a job thats over an hour from their home... and very often theyre not on full time hours!!

I'm applying for jobs all over the place. I live in Galway city and don't drive or own a car but I'm still applying for jobs up to 90 minutes from where I live. If I get a job then either ill work out a way to commute or move closer to work. I would never expect extra money from my employer to cover the cost of getting to work. Teachers are not sacred cows, if they are unwilling to go where the jobs are then that's their loss. They should not receive any grant/extra wages to cover travel costs to and from work.

K-9

Geuze wrote: »

Existing teachers took 2 pay cuts.

New teachers face 4 pay cuts.

The pain is not being spread evenly.

I'd take that up with your Union, the one who should have fought for new entrants when the cuts came in. I'm sure they didn't put existing permanent members ahead of new members. Oh wait, they did! Doh!

K-9

mossyc123 wrote: »

How is that "way more" then a Teacher?

Accountancy route is 3/4 year primary degree (1st class honours or 2:1 required to get into the big firms).

Next up is 3+ years of work as a Junior.

Professional exams are taken at this time and if you're lucky you'll get them paid for by the firm and adequate study leave (exams and tuition can cost 3-4k per annum ... on a wage of 18-20k!)

After you've qualified it's about constant improvement and showing a partner/firm that you are worth taking on for the forseeable future.

Arguably, the polar opposite of the "made permanent, sorted for life" environment of a newly-minted teacher.

Im personally in favour of Teachers, Nurses, Gardai, etc being well remunerated... BUT the idea that 28k isn't a good starting salary in the current environment is pretty ridicilous!

Thank you for pointing out the differences in Accountancy and teaching.

Accountancy has actually seen a big increase in starting pay rates, £78 was the starting rate about 1997 with fees paid and study leave of about 4 weeks. 4 weeks pay equalling £312 and fees paid of about £1,500, about 18 weeks wages.

Huge pressure on getting exams and constant pressure over how much hours were billed on a job. If a job took longer than a previous year, brought in and questioned why. Yearly reviews and if it happened regularly, out the door you went!

44leto

x

McTigs

crapmanjoe wrote: »

Analysing whether its "worth" working because of the social welfare you could be getting is an absolutely shocking and disgusting attitude.

Agree with this 100%. It makes me sick every time i hear it. Working is a privilage not an entitlement

There also seems to be confusion between teachers pay and investing in education.

I'm all for investing in education that will actually improve our childrens education ie. Smaller pupil teacher ratios, infrastructure, sports facilities, computers, school buses.... which could all be much better afforded if we didn't need to pay or teachers on the scales we do.

The last 15 years have shown us that paying teachers more does nothing to improve the standard of teaching, if anything it diminishes.

Crazy Horse 6

finlma wrote: »

Of course they should get allowances. If you're more qualified in the private sector you get better pay as you offer more to the job. A teacher with a Masters degree should be paid more than a teacher with a normal pass degree.

It's very shortsighted to get rid of allowances. They cost very little in the grand scheme of things. If they are not offered then no one will look to educate themselves further. We need to be investing in education and improving the skillset of teachers. Getting rid of allowances is a retrograde step.

By the way a new teacher entering the profession now starts on less than €28k a year. Their weekly take home pay is not a whole lot better than the minimum wage. If we expect to get good quality teachers then we're going the wrong way about it.

I'm sorry but 28k is a hell of a lot more than the minimum wage tbh.

ronjo

micropig wrote: »

Country Duration of secondary Education Education Attainment Secondary Education spending (% of GDP)
Ireland 5 years (rank 162th|) 22%(rank 18th) 5.5% Rank 44th (4% more than UK) & (20% more that germany)
UK 7years (rank27th) *40% more than Ireland 37% (rank 13th 68% more than Ireland) 5.3% ranked 47th
Germany 9 years (ranked 1st) 80% more than Ireland 59% (ranked 3rd) 168% more than Ireland 4.6%( Ranked 69th)
If these figures are correct our children spend less time in secondary education, achieve less and cost more than these other two countries and this has nothing to do with teachers?

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Germany/Ireland/Education


http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Ireland/United-Kingdom/Education


I asked any teachers that where here to comment and they all disappeared rambling about us having the best education in the world and no fact/figures to back it up

I am surprised no-one picked up on this but reading the stats I noticed Slovakia and Germany are joint first with 9 years in secondary school. However, there are 4 years in Primary school only which means 13 years in total just the same as Ireland.
They just have different names.

Gophur

80% of the cost of Education, in Ireland, is spent on salaries.

tigger123

McTigs wrote: »

Agree with this 100%. It makes me sick every time i hear it. Working is a privilage not an entitlement

There also seems to be confusion between teachers pay and investing in education.

I'm all for investing in education that will actually improve our childrens education ie. Smaller pupil teacher ratios, infrastructure, sports facilities, computers, school buses.... which could all be much better afforded if we didn't need to pay or teachers on the scales we do.

The last 15 years have shown us that paying teachers more does nothing to improve the standard of teaching, if anything it diminishes.

How would an increase in teachers wages degrade the standard of teaching?

McTigs

tigger123 wrote: »

How would an increase in teachers wages degrade the standard of teaching?

As i said in a previous post, the better money attracted people who weren't guinely interested in teaching as a vocation but rather saw it as a lucrative career choice.

Spoilt, disinterested teachers with a sense of entitlement has led to a dimise in standards. Especially now that there have been cuts and levies imposed on pay, there are many taking their digruntlement out on the kids they are teaching. The salaries and conditions should never have ballooned the way they did, it has to be pulled back.

smash

You know what... give them the option to strike, then you'll see who's there for the pay, and who actually cares about giving a decent education to the kids.

tigger123

McTigs wrote: »

As i said in a previous post, the better money attracted people who weren't guinely interested in teaching as a vocation but rather saw it as a lucrative career choice.

Spoilt, disinterested teachers with a sense of entitlement has led to a dimise in standards. Especially now that there have been cuts and levies imposed on pay, there are many taking their digruntlement out on the kids they are teaching. The salaries and conditions should never have ballooned the way they did, it has to be pulled back.

But why should teaching be considered a vocation? Why shouldn't be considered a career? Like all other professions? Would you feel the same way about Gardaí and Nurses?

McTigs

tigger123 wrote: »

But why should teaching be considered a vocation? Why shouldn't be considered a career? Like all other professions? Would you feel the same way about Gardaí and Nurses?

Why shouldn't it? The point is that as the money got better it attracted those who had no interest in the actual imparting of knowledge but just spotted a gravy train. This has led to a severe drop in standards over the past 15 - 20 years.

Fear_an_tarbh

I'm a young teacher. I get paid for a 22 hour week. Like most young teachers, very week since September I have worked 45 - 50 hours. 8 - 4 every day in school (with a 10 minute break to eat at best) then average 2 hours planning and correcting and usually 3-4 hours on Sunday. This doesn't take into account the hundred or so (again, unpaid) hours in the year that go into activities such as sports, trips away and obligatory courses.

I work out at about 9 euro an hour. I work in July and August to pay the bills.

Most people that give out about teaching wouldn't last a week in it.

tigger123

McTigs wrote: »

Why shouldn't it? The point is that as the money got better it attracted those who had no interest in the actual imparting of knowledge but just spotted a gravy train. This has led to a severe drop in standards over the past 15 - 20 years.

It shouldn't be considered a vocation because it isn't a vocation. It's a career. I don't see why someone who wants to be a teacher should then automatically agree to be poorly paid, not have a mortgage, have enough money to raise kids etc. I cannot see the logic in this argument at all.

Would you stop at teachers? Or should this be extended to Gardaí, nurses, and Firemen?

I still don't understand how it has lead to a severe drop in standards in the past 15 - 20 years? Is there a link for this?

McTigs

Fear_an_tarbh wrote: »

I'm a young teacher. I get paid for a 22 hour week. Like most young teachers, very week since September I have worked 45 - 50 hours. 8 - 4 every day in school (with a 10 minute break to eat at best) then average 2 hours planning and correcting and usually 3-4 hours on Sunday. This doesn't take into account the hundred or so (again, unpaid) hours in the year that go into activities such as sports, trips away and obligatory courses.

I work out at about 9 euro an hour. I work in July and August to pay the bills.

Most people that give out about teaching wouldn't last a week in it.

This very comendable but the fact is that this is the reality for most people at the begining of their working life, qualification or no qualification. Long thankless hours doing all the crap jobs is the same if you were a doctor, solicitor, accountant, guard, barman, hotel worker or whatever.

It's what you do as you move up the ladder, nobody gets to be CEO with all the perks on their first day

jester77

Fear_an_tarbh wrote: »

I'm a young teacher. I get paid for a 22 hour week. Like most young teachers, very week since September I have worked 45 - 50 hours. 8 - 4 every day in school (with a 10 minute break to eat at best) then average 2 hours planning and correcting and usually 3-4 hours on Sunday. This doesn't take into account the hundred or so (again, unpaid) hours in the year that go into activities such as sports, trips away and obligatory courses.

I work out at about 9 euro an hour. I work in July and August to pay the bills.

Most people that give out about teaching wouldn't last a week in it.

And how is that different to the real world? I have a 40 hour a week salary, but I often end up working 60 hours. There are days where I don't have time to get a lunch, grab a sandwich and take it to a meeting. I often have to travel to meetings, which means getting up to catch flights at 5 or 6 AM and I may not be home for a few days or more and getting back in around midnight if I catch an evening flight home.

I don't get paid overtime, I don't complain, this is how it actually works in the REAL world. Your last sentence makes me laugh as I don't think most teachers would even last past 6 pm in the real world.

CageWager

Fear_an_tarbh wrote: »

I work in July and August to pay the bills.

It must be tough to be forced to work July and August just to pay the bills............ Like everyone else...

Seachmall

Fear_an_tarbh wrote: »

I'm a young teacher. I get paid for a 22 hour week. Like most young teachers, very week since September I have worked 45 - 50 hours. 8 - 4 every day in school (with a 10 minute break to eat at best) then average 2 hours planning and correcting and usually 3-4 hours on Sunday. This doesn't take into account the hundred or so (again, unpaid) hours in the year that go into activities such as sports, trips away and obligatory courses.

I work out at about 9 euro an hour. I work in July and August to pay the bills.

Most people that give out about teaching wouldn't last a week in it.

Looking at my timesheet last year I worked up over 2500 hours averaging 52.5 hours a week. That includes some Saturdays and Sundays (full days).

Compare that against my total income of last year and I get payed less than minimum wage. My actual wage is above minimum (obviously) but I choose to work those extra hours because I work for a start-up and was told this would be the case up front and because I'm damn happy to have a job.

Now I'm not going to compare stress of the job with you because the fact is I love my job and I know teaching can be horrendously stressful but if you come in here spouting your hours and pay people like me will happily tell you to shove them up your ass because they mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. This, in the Private Sector, is how you keep a job and earn your pay rises.

TL;DR
People don't care about how hard-done by you feel. Get a real job.

McTigs

tigger123 wrote: »

It shouldn't be considered a vocation because it isn't a vocation. It's a career. I don't see why someone who wants to be a teacher should then automatically agree to be poorly paid, not have a mortgage, have enough money to raise kids etc. I cannot see the logic in this argument at all.

Would you stop at teachers? Or should this be extended to Gardaí, nurses, and Firemen?

I still don't understand how it has lead to a severe drop in standards in the past 15 - 20 years? Is there a link for this?

vo·ca·tion

   [voh-key-shuhn] Show IPA
noun 1. a particular occupation, business, or profession; calling.

2. a strong impulse or inclination to follow a particular activity or career.

Who said anything about poorly paid, not affording a mortgage or kids? I think uyou misunderstand meaning of vocation. And yes it does extend to firemen, nurses, guards and even doctors.

You don't understand?well aging i will state that the better money has led people into teaching who no interest in the actual job but rather the money. There is no disputing that educational standards have dropped in this country over the past 15 years. Every employer big and small have noticed it.

dsmythy

The masters allowance should not just have been kept but increased. If you want to get paid big for teaching have the credentials. Should be how it works.

Benicetomonty

micropig wrote: »

This is due to schools having no effective awards/punishment system in place. It is up to the school & the teachers within the school to implement an effective behaviour control policy

But I'm betting if I said a rewards system rewards & lunch time detentions, you would tell me that teachers can't give up their lunch time without more money.:rolleyes:

Get together with the other teachers, principals & BOM & address this problem

1 student being disruptive in a class. Hardly the same as 30 disruptive students

The action to be taken
1) Is there a medical condition
2) Find out what level he is at, may he's not keeping up with the class, maybe hes too advanced for the class
3) Catering a lesson (quite easy to adapt a lesson plan and use differentiation, if your a skilled teacher)
4) Chat to the child, find out what his interests are. Differentiate the lesson to incorporate his interests.
5) Move it up to the next level ie form tutor, principal & Parents


At the same time reward the disruptive every time you seeing him do something good
Don't hold grudges

But before you do this you have to have a clear behaviour management plan in place so that the children know the rules and that there will be consequences for obeying/disobeying rules

Always follow up bad behaviour. Get parents involved. Ring them to tell them child, good &/ bad. creates strong home-school bonds



Get them to act out a poet, play. children love acting stuff out & when they are actively participating less likely to bored. Try and make the subject material relevant to their daily lives. Relationships, death etc. (I'm not an english teacher but with all the education teachers have I'm sure you'll come up with a few more ideas). Don't just sit at the top of the class telling them to take down notes. Have you watched the film of the play. Get them to research a character on the internet and write an essay on the sim ilarities on their daily lives. Plan your class so the children have to actively participate in the lesson and can't opt out. (I'm not an english teacher but that what I came up with off the top of my head )





Yes I think this is incredibly lazy teaching. Students sitting a desk for 40 mins with a copy and a pen:D don't expect the impossible., but do plan a lesson so they are not doing this for a full 40 minutes see above for some ideas to make your lessons more interesting and interactive for the students


& Learn some classroom management & behaviour control techniques

If this is the standard of teachers that we are producing, no wonder the education system is the way it is

I have so much education to do an above average job - To sit at the top of the class and dictate notes to the children sitting at their desks taking notes and expecting them to sit still for 40 minutes :rolleyes: I wouldn't sit still for 40 minutes in this type of class

Innovation people!!:p

1) You seem to have all the answers it seems What would you do if an 18 year old with no psychiatric problems on record exposed himself in front of you? I can tell you that's something we're not taught in teacher school! More investment needed I guess :rolleyes:

2) Get them to write an essay? Very difficult when the technique of sitting down quietly with a book and a copy has been so roundly criticised. How would you propose they write this essay without paper, pen, sitting...etc?

3) That you so readily believe this is the only way I teach speaks of the prejudice, begrudgery, contempt and outright ignorance you have for teachers. Since there's nothing I can do to help you there, I bow out.

tigger123

McTigs wrote: »

vo·ca·tion

   [voh-key-shuhn] Show IPA
noun 1. a particular occupation, business, or profession; calling.

2. a strong impulse or inclination to follow a particular activity or career.

Who said anything about poorly paid, not affording a mortgage or kids? I think uyou misunderstand meaning of vocation. And yes it does extend to firemen, nurses, guards and even doctors.

You don't understand?well aging i will state that the better money has led people into teaching who no interest in the actual job but rather the money. There is no disputing that educational standards have dropped in this country over the past 15 years. Every employer big and small have noticed it.

So your argument is that in order to maintain high standards in education, the State should purposely keep the wages of Teachers low in order to only attract those who feel a calling for the profession? I completely disagree.

Fear_an_tarbh

jester77 wrote: »

And how is that different to the real world?

Because were are members of a professional body who are supposed to maintain professional standards in meeting your child's learning needs and civic and social development! Not a corporate profit-driven operation!

Its not a race to the bottom to see who can babysit your child for the lowest wage. I know, lets get rid of all teachers and pay a bunch of people 8 euro an hour to mind the kids all day long. ''Sure they don't do any real work anyway, do they''?

The countries that invest in education and good teachers, Norway, Finland, etc. (they get paid a lot more than us and thus its a competitive highly-desired occupation), achieve higher educational standards. And I'm not just talking about academic results.

Suggesting that we model our educational system on a corporate system where people at the frontline get paid a pittance and upper management reap the rewards is an aspiration to low educational standards and shows a lack of value or interest in your child's education.

Seachmall

Fear_an_tarbh wrote: »

Suggesting that we model our educational system on a corporate system where people at the frontline get paid a pittance and upper management reap the rewards is an aspiration to low educational standards and shows a lack of value or interest in your child's education.

The responses directed at you were about you bitching about how long you work and how little you get paid.

Most people that give out about teaching wouldn't last a week in it.

Maybe not, but I guarantee if you're whinging about your hours and pay now you wouldn't last a fucking second in the private sector.

44leto

Originally Posted by Fear_an_tarbh
I'm a young teacher. I get paid for a 22 hour week. Like most young teachers, very week since September I have worked 45 - 50 hours. 8 - 4 every day in school (with a 10 minute break to eat at best) then average 2 hours planning and correcting and usually 3-4 hours on Sunday. This doesn't take into account the hundred or so (again, unpaid) hours in the year that go into activities such as sports, trips away and obligatory courses.

I work out at about 9 euro an hour. I work in July and August to pay the bills.

Most people that give out about teaching wouldn't last a week in it.

I hope you are not a maths or an accountancy teacher, I know teachers in the real world as many on this forum do and they are not poor, they have good lifestyles, I don't begrudge them that but they wouldn't have the balls to scream poverty.

Its a good job and its a worthy job, there is a level of satisfaction in it, which I envy. So go on strike and invite public scrutiny into you real pay and conditions and I am sorry, but I can't see you winning much public support, especially now when 1000s of jobs are still being lost weekly.

McTigs

tigger123 wrote: »

So your argument is that in order to maintain high standards in education, the State should purposely keep the wages of Teachers low in order to only attract those who feel a calling for the profession? I completely disagree.

Not low, they ought to be paid a decent wage comensurate with the inargueable toughness of the job but also the generous holiday allowances, just not so high that it attracts the wrong people and comsumes too high a % of the overall spend on education, as it does now.

tigger123

McTigs wrote: »

Not low, they ought to be paid a decent wage comensurate with the inargueable toughness of the job but also the generous holiday allowances, just not so high that it attracts the wrong people and comsumes too high a % of the overall spend on education, as it does now.

I guess it comes down to whether you think teachers are currently overpaid, which I don't.

44leto

I got googling and it turns out, surprise, surprise, according to these Ireland has the best paid teachers in Europe

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=teachers%20salaries%20in%20europe&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CEAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ronanlyons.com%2F2009%2F04%2F20%2Ftackling-the-thorny-issue-of-teachers-pay%2F&ei=BIQqT-YLi7qEB7HuufsK&usg=AFQjCNEyxQtQWaWjRMR4lc4LcfOeuNc18g&cad=rja

Fear_an_tarbh

McTigs wrote: »

Not low, they ought to be paid a decent wage comensurate with the inargueable toughness of the job but also the generous holiday allowances, just not so high that it attracts the wrong people and comsumes too high a % of the overall spend on education, as it does now.

So less than 9euro an hour? If I stay in the job enough years, this will rise to 10, then a few more years 11, maybe some day it will hit 15. The I'll feel like a true professional.

Would you be happy dealing with a Guard who you know is getting this wage?

Would you be happy having a nurse treat you who you know is getting this?

But you'll happily send your kid in to be taught by someone who gets this wage, the complain that they are overpaid.

chessman

how many HOURS per week do teachers actualy teach for.

McTigs

I don't like dealing with guards full stop

McTigs

tigger123 wrote: »

I guess it comes down to whether you think teachers are currently overpaid, which I don't.

I think our entire public sector is overpaid to the tune of 20%.

And i frankly don't care what mortgages they took out

Let's introduce a system where teachers (secondary school) pay is related to their performance. Let's look at the junior and leaving cert results and if over a 5 year period 10% of their students fail then let them face a 10% wage cut. If 20% of their students recieve A grades then a increase cab be given. Guaranteed that the standards of teaching and exam results would improve over night

CageWager

Fear_an_tarbh wrote: »

If I stay in the job enough years, this will rise to 10, then a few more years 11, maybe some day it will hit 15.

In the real world we call this career progression. You seem to have an unbelievable sense of entitlement to be paid a wage commensurate with 20 years experience after 2 or 3 years. No matter what career you chose you have to climb the ladder over a period of 30-40 years. The problem is, some people got used to everything being handed to them on a plate.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's introduce a system where teachers (secondary school) pay is related to their performance. Let's look at the junior and leaving cert results and if over a 5 year period 10% of their students fail then let them face a 10% wage cut. If 20% of their students recieve A grades then a increase cab be given. Guaranteed that the standards of teaching and exam results would improve over night

What about the 10/20% of students who don't give a hoot about results and who refuse to study, take notes etc ? How do you propose making that work ?

44leto

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's introduce a system where teachers (secondary school) pay is related to their performance. Let's look at the junior and leaving cert results and if over a 5 year period 10% of their students fail then let them face a 10% wage cut. If 20% of their students recieve A grades then a increase cab be given. Guaranteed that the standards of teaching and exam results would improve over night

The reality is some deprived areas have poorer performance in these exams and it has nothing to do with the quality of the teachers. A childs education does not only take place in the classroom.

So I would not be for your suggested system. But I will admit some of the teachers i had should have been sacked.

It's not just teachers but the whole PS that needs a drastic shake up. Far too many people holding positions where they do the absolute minimum. If it was the private sector these people would quickly be out of a job but in the PS they continue to sit back and enjoy the benefits of doing as little as possible.

Fear_an_tarbh

Deleted User wrote: »

Let's introduce a system where teachers (secondary school) pay is related to their performance. Let's look at the junior and leaving cert results and if over a 5 year period 10% of their students fail then let them face a 10% wage cut. If 20% of their students recieve A grades then a increase cab be given. Guaranteed that the standards of teaching and exam results would improve over night

Great idea!, lets put my 3 students with Asperger's and 5 with MGLD (Mild General Learning Disabilities) as well as the few with dyslexia, dyspraxia into a special institution (just like the good old days) and concentrate on those students who do well on written standardised tests.
And we should just expel those (I have 3 or 4) who come from abusive alcoholic backgrounds, get no support at home and have no chance of matching the results of those who come from stable leafy suburb backgrounds.
Whoever thought that education should be inclusive was crazy, this will work far better and we'll save so much money in disadvantaged areas!
:rolleyes: