Contract Issue - advice needed

highly1111

deleted by OP

gaeilgebeo

I do feel for you in your position. However, the other teacher rightfully got the original position and is entitled to that job. Even if she only has 2 subjects and you have three, she did get the position and I would imagine will have more of a standing than you would. She has been in the position for a year.
The principal should never have planted that seed in your head.
I think you would be bringing a lot of hassle on yourself by writing to the BOM requesting someone elses position and I don't think it will do you any favours with management or staff.

highly1111

Thanks for the advice Gaeigebeo. I just wanted to clarify something. We were both offered jobs on the same day (but different contracts) subject to us being recognised for subjects A B and C by the teaching council. However, she's only recognised for teaching a and b, yet is teaching all 3. So we've being in the school the Same amount of time. Her contract was always conditional on her registration. (as was mine) and she can't fulfill those conditions but I know that the principal is so disorganised that he won't chase it up. He really won't. So the push will have to come from me - which puts me in this unfavourable position.

eager tortoise

I think you are right to follow it up. In my school, a teacher felt that the hours I was granted last September (when I was hired) should have - at least in part - gone to him. He rose this with the Principal, union and VEC. After everything had been considered my appointment still stood, but I understood his position and did not begrudge him raising the issue - in his position I would've queried it also. If you were hired on the same day that is all the more reason to feel entitled to a fair hearing. The only reason I can see the principal not bothering to pursue it is if the third subject that she is not recognised to teach is a non-exam subject.

I can only assume the other teacher is not aware that your contract is less secure than hers, despite your being qualified in all three subjects?

implausible

The principal had no right to discuss another teacher's registration with you and promise you something he couldn't deliver on. At the end of the day, the contract you get is sometimes the luck of the draw. Teaching Council registration, while important, is not the most important thing here, as it's not as if you are both completely unqualified. The timetable can always be adjusted to reflect the subjects you are both qualified for.

A more important question than the subjects you are registered for or what job you applied for is - what does your contract say? The reality is that what a teacher actually teaches can be very different from the job they applied for and/or what is in their contract e.g. my contract says English & Irish, but despite being qualified for both, I have never taught a word of Irish. I do, however, teach Communications and co-ordinate Childcare.

I really wouldn't recommend going over the principal's head to the Board of Management and demanding a change in a colleague's contract. I can imagine this leaving an extremely sour taste in everyone's mouth.

highly1111

Thanks for all the advice. It's very much appreciated. I am very reluctant to go over the principals head to the BoM but I do feel like I should pursue it further. To clarify, and to save further confusion, the ad was for a teacher for all 3 business subjects - 2 positions available. Didnt say any more. I applied and was offered fixed term which I was delighted to accept. I was told I'd need the letter from TC as I had my registration on my cv but not the actual letter for my interview. She was told the same thing for her contract. I produced my tc letter in july shortly after interview and when I did the principal said that the other teacher has been in touch and contrary to what she had genuinely thought she wasn't registered to teach the 3rd business subject. Thats when he told me that if she could not produce that document then he may be in a position to offer me the other contract but he wanted to give her a chance to sort her registration. Fair enough I thought! However the TC have told her that she must undergo further studies to get recognised for the 3rd subject. She is teaching all 3 and I'm only teaching 2 of them. However thats due to the timetables we inherited - it was made explicitly clear at interview that all 3 business subjects were needed. (we interviewed same day as well!) however there's not much demand for the 3rd subject and I've 2 of class groups of subject b and she's one class of subject b and c. I hope that makes sense. We've lots of subject a between us! B and C are both senior option subjects so demand varies from year to year.

She is aware that I'm registered for all 3 but doesn't know what the principal said to me about the contracts.

However in the above circular on paragraph 7.1 it says that if a more qualified teacher becomes available they should be offered the contract and the other teachers contract be terminated?? Again I don't want to shark attack the other teacher but I don't want to end up on social welfare again next year if I am entitled to something more permanent.

Again apologies for the length. Thanks for reading.

eager tortoise

I think I would go back to the Principal for a proper chat about it before going any further. Remind him of what was said last July and be nice and friendly about it. Say that you are just concerned about what next year might bring. If he is in anyway understanding he should appreciate your position. I would not go in all guns blazing, but it doesn't sound like you intend to anyway If he tells you out straight that nothing will be done then perhaps you might consult with the union before going to BOM.

vamos!

I have no advice to offer but wish you best of luck. It's so tough to have to go to the higher powers with these issues! Can I hijack the thread for a moment please to ask some advice too? I am currently on an RPT contract in a school. A colleague is on her second year covering a career break. We share a common subject but she has a more 'useful' second subject. I have recently been left under the impression that she will be getting my hours when her career break comes to an end in June. Can the school do this or am I entitled to my RPT hours if they exist? Thanks for any input. (Not in a union)

RealJohn

vamos! wrote: »

I have no advice to offer but wish you best of luck. It's so tough to have to go to the higher powers with these issues! Can I hijack the thread for a moment please to ask some advice too? I am currently on an RPT contract in a school. A colleague is on her second year covering a career break. We share a common subject but she has a more 'useful' second subject. I have recently been left under the impression that she will be getting my hours when her career break comes to an end in June. Can the school do this or am I entitled to my RPT hours if they exist? Thanks for any input. (Not in a union)

If you have a fixed term contract then they're entitled to let you go at the end of it, no questions asked (CID implications not withstanding). It's possible they'd have to advertise the hours and interview applicants but regardless, if they want to give "your" hours to her when your contract is up then I'm pretty sure they can.

I'm not completely sure but I can't think of any reason why they couldn't.

vamos!

RealJohn wrote: »

If you have a fixed term contract then they're entitled to let you go at the end of it, no questions asked (CID implications not withstanding). It's possible they'd have to advertise the hours and interview applicants but regardless, if they want to give "your" hours to her when your contract is up then I'm pretty sure they can.

I'm not completely sure but I can't think of any reason why they couldn't.

I always thought that when a career break cover ended it was tough luck. I assumed that was why people are happier to be on 11hr RPT contracts as opposed to 22 TWT contracts as career break cover? I am now raging that I didn't take a career break contract I was offered and earn double the money for the year! Thanks for the advice

gaeilgebeo

At the end of the day, your colleague is on the current contract for the rest of this academic year.
Timetables/Contracts/Subjects change every year.
You don't know what teacher allowance the school has for next September.
Maybe only one of you will be needed.
Your colleague may only be required to teach subject 1+2 next year.

If it does come down to timetabling next year or they re advertise the position and you have rocked the boat/caused issues for the principal, you may risk your job. That is the reality when you are not permanent and people are fighting for hours. Don't forget that you may also need a reference from this principal.

My advice : thread very carefully with this one.

implausible

vamos! wrote: »

I always thought that when a career break cover ended it was tough luck. I assumed that was why people are happier to be on 11hr RPT contracts as opposed to 22 TWT contracts as career break cover? I am now raging that I didn't take a career break contract I was offered and earn double the money for the year!

It's tough luck if the person comes back and there are no hours. However, if the teacher doesn't come back or you are given your own RPT hours, those contracts (4 years, 2 of which to be consecutive RPT contracts) can add up to a C.I.D.

Schools still have some discretion to keep on who they want or allocate hours as they wish in these cases.

vamos!

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

At the end of the day, your colleague is on the current contract for the rest of this academic year.
Timetables/Contracts/Subjects change every year.
You don't know what teacher allowance the school has for next September.
Maybe only one of you will be needed.
Your colleague may only be required to teach subject 1+2 next year.

If it does come down to timetabling next year or they re advertise the position and you have rocked the boat/caused issues for the principal, you may risk your job. That is the reality when you are not permanent and people are fighting for hours. Don't forget that you may also need a reference from this principal.

My advice : thread very carefully with this one.

Thanks. I have no intention of rocking any boats or saying anything at all! At least I know where I stand and can start thinking about next year. The 5year career break is definitely over and only one of us will be needed next year (if at all after the cuts!). I will just keep doing my job and make sure I get a damned good reference. I really thought I had finally gotten a foot in the door after years of career breaks and mat leaves:(

gaeilgebeo

vamos! wrote: »

Thanks. I have no intention of rocking any boats or saying anything at all! At least I know where I stand and can start thinking about next year. The 5year career break is definitely over and only one of us will be needed next year (if at all after the cuts!). I will just keep doing my job and make sure I get a damned good reference. I really thought I had finally gotten a foot in the door after years of career breaks and mat leaves:(

Apologies Vamos, my post was directed at the OP.:o
Have you been on the exact same contract for 5 years?

highly1111

Thanks Gaeilgebeo. I know exactly where you're coming from. And good point about the reference. And I do know how lucky I am to have any contract. However, my subjects are actually more secure for next year as there is a 5th year class doing that subject (which she isn't registered/qualified) to teach and the only one 6th year group doing the 3 rd subject so in fact there's more demand for my subject if that makes sense. Also they will absolutely need 2 business teachers next year. It's a massive school and this year more than ever we've loads classes on the junior side. Never mind the senior side. we're both on full hours doing pure business subjects.

I think I'll wait until march 1st until I hear what the position is next year and then approach it with him. Defo don't want to be going in there all guns blazing. He'll let me know about the career break being extended or not and then I broach it. I'll figure that conversation out closer to the time!

Thanks for all the advice