The new rules for dole recipients?

greimorm

Ok i heard a rumour,that from now on if people don't show they are searching for work or don't find work in certain time limit they will be cut off dole?
Now i would just like to say how can that work?
Since people are not replying to job applications to confirm they applied nor are they replying to people if they don't get jobs and do get an interview,but are not successful in getting said job.
Also if there is the amount of people who are on welfare as they say in Ireland how can they get the jobs when everyone else is going for them.
Friends of mine are applying left right and center for work they get no confirmation of their application to said job nor do they get replies after interviews if they do get one.
I am confused how this is meant to work.
In relation to the thread why did you join boards,this is why i joined.

Jimbob 83

I read about it too and it seem's totally unworkable

Run_to_da_hills

This will only drive employees gaga. Some larger firms would have to have full time office staff employed just to deal with applicants seeking work, filling out forms etc. I doubt if they would accept automated email responses.

AnonoBoy

As I stated in the last thread about this. There's always been a clause that you have to show evidence that you are actively looking for and available for work to be entitled to the dole.

This time limit thing is unworkable and sounds like it was just announced to keep the slavering 'oh dem spongers are de worst thing in de world' types happy that something is being seen to be done.

boobar

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This will only drive employees gaga. Some larger firms would have to have full time office staff employed just to deal with applicants seeking work, filling out forms etc. I doubt if they would accept automated email responses.

A sure fire way of creating employment...I think this is the Government's Jobs Strategy.

greimorm

AnonoBoy wrote: »

As I stated in the last thread about this. There's always been a clause that you have to show evidence that you are actively looking for and available for work to be entitled to the dole.

This time limit thing is unworkable and sounds like it was just announced to keep the slavering 'oh dem spongers are de worst thing in de world' types happy that something is being seen to be done.

How can you prove you are seeking work if they dont even get a reply or even acknowledge you applied.

I think it sounds like a threat and fear-mongering.

D

Like it has already been said on JA or JB it stated that you had to provide proof that you have been looking. When I was on the dole they only checked at the start.

AnonoBoy

greimorm wrote: »

How can you prove you are seeking work if they dont even reply or even acknowledge you applied.

I think it sounds like a threat and fear-mongering.

Well that was always the problem. Lots of people ended up getting friends to write fake letters saying that they'd applied for jobs. When I ran my own business I did this for friends several times.

It's such a hard thing to police which is why I agree that it's just a threat that they're not really going to be able to enforce fully.

Run_to_da_hills

boobar wrote: »

A sure fire way of creating employment...I think this is the Government's Jobs Strategy.

Solution, take people off the dole and have them sort out these applications.

Doc Ruby

greimorm wrote: »

or don't find work in certain time limit they will be cut off dole?

Where was this, or where did you read it?

cloneslad

greimorm wrote: »

How can you prove you are seeking work if they dont even get a reply or even acknowledge you applied.

I think it sounds like a threat and fear-mongering.

Couldn't people print out or copy on to a usb key, copies of the applications they have submitted or copies of their sent e-mails?

AnonoBoy

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Where was this, or where did you read it?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/govt-considers-time-limit-for-dole-recipients-537068.html

Previous boards thread on it here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76693893

MagicSean

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Well that was always the problem. Lots of people ended up getting friends to write fake letters saying that they'd applied for jobs. When I ran my own business I did this for friends several times.

It's such a hard thing to police which is why I agree that it's just a threat that they're not really going to be able to enforce fully.

Would that not make you liable for criminal charges?

AnonoBoy

cloneslad wrote: »

Couldn't people print out or copy on to a usb key, copies of the applications they have submitted or copies of their sent e-mails?

When I was on the dole I used to submit print outs of email applications for jobs.

The problem is it's extremely easy to fake them. (I didn't do personally but could have quite easily)

AnonoBoy

MagicSean wrote: »

Would that not make you liable for criminal charges?

Possibly but I don't think so.

I was running a real company, I just didn't have any jobs going. They asked for a job, I said no. They asked me to put it in writing so I did.

What offence have I committed?

They just took advantage of the fact that I was someone they knew who would definitely give them a written response. As people have stated it can be nigh on impossible to get a response from some job applications.

greimorm

cloneslad wrote: »

Couldn't people print out or copy on to a usb key, copies of the applications they have submitted or copies of their sent e-mails?

If they have a printer?

Mike 1972

greimorm wrote: »

Ok i heard a rumour,that from now on if people don't show they are searching for work ....they will be cut off dole?

Hasnt this always been the case

Granted the enforcment of said rule has often been somewhat hit and miss but in a recession there is arguably little point stepping up enforcement since it would amount to little more than pointless harrasment of people who have already dont their damndest to chase non-existant jobs.

greimorm

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Hasnt this always been the case

Granted the enforcment of said rule has often been somewhat hit and miss but in a recession there is arguably little point stepping up enforcement since it would amount to little more than pointless harrasment of people who have already dont their damndest to chase non-existant jobs.

Yes it was meant to be enforced but never really enforced as far as i can see. They have added on the threat of cutting their welfare.If they bring laws like this into effect then they must bring laws into effect that all companies shops etc.. must give a correspondence in reply to said applications.

MagicSean

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Possibly but I don't think so.

I was running a real company, I just didn't have any jobs going. They asked for a job, I said no. They asked me to put it in writing so I did.

What offence have I committed?

They just took advantage of the fact that I was someone they knew who would definitely give them a written response. As people have stated it can be nigh on impossible to get a response from some job applications.

That's not true. You said it was a fake letter. implying that they didn't ask for a job. In which case you helped them claim the dole fraudulantly which makes you an accessory to their crime.

Adyx

60 posts in one day! :eek:

hawkelady

.[/QUOTE]

That's not true. You said it was a fake letter. implying that they didn't ask for a job. In which case you helped them claim the dole fraudulantly which makes you an accessory to their crime.[/Quote]

Do you have any friends? Ever asked a mate for a favour maybe??
Get over yourself being high and mighty . You know this type of thing goes on and your little rant on here won't put an end to it. A crime you say, I doubt I'll ever here about similar crimes on the six one news!!

greimorm

MagicSean wrote: »

That's not true. You said it was a fake letter. implying that they didn't ask for a job. In which case you helped them claim the dole fraudulantly which makes you an accessory to their crime.

Technically they asked for a job so he didnt.

AnonoBoy

MagicSean wrote: »

That's not true. You said it was a fake letter. implying that they didn't ask for a job. In which case you helped them claim the dole fraudulantly which makes you an accessory to their crime.

It was only fake in so far as I had no jobs going and they knew that.

But by all means get pedantic and hey, why not call the cops and see if they give a rat's arse. :rolleyes:

There's absolutely no crime involved in writing someone a letter saying that there are no positions available for them at the moment but you will keep their CV on file.

And you know what? I don't even think the person sending that letter to the dole is even committing a crime as nothing has been faked.

Judgement Day

MagicSean wrote: »

That's not true. You said it was a fake letter. implying that they didn't ask for a job. In which case you helped them claim the dole fraudulantly which makes you an accessory to their crime.

What a sheltered existence you must live. Wake up and smell the coffee.

socco

Adyx wrote: »

60 posts in one day! :eek:

proof he must be on the dole

bodhrandude

Well the government should make it a law that the employers have to reply to job enquiries or they will be blacklisted, its as simple as that.

MagicSean

AnonoBoy wrote: »

It was only fake in so far as I had no jobs going and they knew that.

But by all means get pedantic and hey, why not call the cops and see if they give a rat's arse. :rolleyes:

There's absolutely no crime involved in writing someone a letter saying that there are no positions available for them at the moment but you will keep their CV on file.

And you know what? I don't even think the person sending that letter to the dole is even committing a crime as nothing has been faked.

I was just going by what you said. You called them fake.

okiss

Could I ask the dole office where are these jobs that my friends are suppose to get?
Yes of course they want to work for €50 a week on top of the dole because that's the only thing available around here.
One of my friends when for a job recently and was told we have had over a 100 replies for this job. My friend did not get this job but at least got a letter to tell them this.
The job bridge scheme is taking possible jobs (even only short term jobs) away from people. Why would you pay some one min wage or slightly above min wage when you can get someone to work for you for €50 a week on top of there dole.

greimorm

okiss wrote: »

Could I ask the dole office where are these jobs that my friends are suppose to get?
Yes of course they want to work for €50 a week on top of the dole because that's the only thing available around here.
One of my friends when for a job recently and was told we have had over a 100 replies for this job. My friend did not get this job but at least got a letter to tell them this.
The job bridge scheme is taking possible jobs (even only short term jobs) away from people. Why would you pay some one min wage or slightly above min wage when you can get someone to work for you for €50 a week on top of there dole.

A friend of mine who works in social welfare said exactly same thing.Another trap.

Piste

It's a nice idea- only give the dole to people actively trying to get out of the dole, but in reality it's totally unworkable. Letters of rejection are far too easy to fake, and employers who are getting hundreds of job applications for positions aren't going to want to divert time and effort into printing hundreds of rejection letters. I'm not entirely convinced people need a massive incentive to get off the dole, so many of the unemployed had rather good wages before being made redundant, at the very least their self esteem and desire to return to a previous lifestyle would be motivation enough to be seeking work anyway.

The impression I get anecdotally and from the media, is that the kinds of people who are happier on the dole rather than working had that same attitude back when everyone had jobs.

Piste

It's a nice idea- only give the dole to people actively trying to get out of the dole, but in reality it's totally unworkable. Letters of rejection are far too easy to fake, and employers who are getting hundreds of job applications for positions aren't going to want to divert time and effort into printing hundreds of rejection letters. I'm not entirely convinced people need a massive incentive to get off the dole, so many of the unemployed had rather good wages before being made redundant, at the very least their self esteem and desire to return to a previous lifestyle would be motivation enough to be seeking work anyway.

The impression I get anecdotally and from the media, is that the kinds of people who are happier on the dole rather than working had that same attitude back when everyone had jobs.

AnonoBoy

MagicSean wrote: »

I was just going by what you said. You called them fake.

I also said in the post you first quoted that I ran my own business at the time. After your first post I explained the situation (granted 'fake' wasn't the right word to use) but you persisted in claiming that I was committing fraud and was 'an accessory'. I know you have a bee in your bonnet about welfare fraud and all that but you really need to read what was written and actually think for a minute before throwing around words like 'fraud' and 'accessory'.

At no point was anyone involved not entitled to the dole or committing any crime. Now take a deep breath and let it go.

Jesus Wept

Some employers don't even notify people who have interviewed. The cunts.

Faith+1

The-Rigger wrote: »

Some employers don't even notify people who have interviewed. The cunts.

Been there, B*stards :mad:

Had an interview a few weeks back, was told I'd hear back within three days with a yes or a no. Waited till the fifth with no word so rang up and got the old we'll get back to you. Two days later rang again, same thing. Two days later I rang up again and got the same reply. Rang up the next day, this time I rang a different department and asked to be transferred to the person I spoke to during my interview. Asked him if I'd been successful, was told I wasn't getting the job. Asked why he didn't contact me as promised, "I have better things to do than contact every failed job applicant". So I asked him if he had no intwntion of getting back to me why did he explicitly stated that he would contact me with a yes or a no, "I assumed when you didn't hear back you'd forget about it".
"could I get a letter saying how I applied for a job but was unsuccessful".
"sorry, company policy is that we do not provide that".
" is ther anyway at all I could get one, like to have it to show I'm trying to get a job and not sitting at home drinking all day"
"I suppose if you send me a cheque to cover the cost of printing the letter and signing it aswell as post I could see what I can do".
"oh, how much would that be?"
"10 euro should cover it"
"not a chance. Thanks but no thanks, I'll make a note of the interview and my follow up calls and they can contact you if there's an issue verifying that I applied but was unsuccessful"


He hung up then. Now I understand that lots of people are applying for each position but you don't tell someone that you'll get back to them within a certain time limit and them never bother. Had he said, if you don't hear from us within the week then sorry but you didn't get the job, fair enough but to repeatedly promise a return call and not get one is annoying beyond belief. To then turn the simple task of printing off a few lines saying such and such applied here into a money making scheme is either tightness gone too far or a stroke of genius. Imagine if 100 people applied and 40 paid to get a letter for the Social Welfare. Be a nice little earner.

K-9

If somebody can't genuinely get a job, what are they supposed to do? Seriously. Have the Government put any thought into that other than pandering to right wing "dole sponger" rhetoric?

If the government really want to do something about the abuse of the system then they should be looking at long term claimants, anyone signing on for 10+ years.

Every town in this country has 3 or 4 if not 20 families who see playing the system as a career. In one street back home one family have 7 houses. The mother and her partner, the ex-husband and all five of their children each has their own house. The most recant one got a house a few months back, just turned 18 and moved into a nice house of her own. She dropped out of school at 15 due to "bullying" and got some grant/payment to finish her education. She got knocked up at 17 and as I said earlier moved into her own house a few weeks back. The family stay up all night drinking and partying, sleep all day but will be up at thr community welfare officer each week looking for a handout for this and that. The neighbors have made numerous complaints about the noise at all hours and were pretty much to learn to live with it. It's these people that should be under scrutiny and be faced with cuts to their payment.

If this country is ever going to get back on its feet them the government should begin to look after the tens of thousands actively seeking work and endevour to help stimulate the jobs market rather than dedicating so much time to coming up with new ways to try and penalise those hit by the recession.

Setting a back to work date is a ludicrous initiative, with tens of thousands signing on each week and the future not looking much brighter to even attempt such a policy is beyond belief. Until such a time as the government can show that there are sufficient jobs out there to meet the demand then they should not even consider this. We're getting to the stage where mass emigration is going to result in the majority of our college graduates emigrating upon competition of their degree. How does the government plan on attracting the big business we need when theres a lack of skilled graduates. Hell, in a FAS meeting awhile back the interviewee told me that I should look at emigrating as there wasn't much if a future for me here. Think that once my girlfriend finishes her masters, the two of us will be following my brothers and the thousands of other young graduates getting the hell off this sinking ship.

What the government should do is offer new and existing claimants an opportunity to leave the country. The cost of your ticket to leave and three months social welfare to help you get started. A simple clause that you couldn't claim again until a year from your departure date and they would save themselves a considerable sum. If jump at such an opportunity as would a lot of other people though knowing the government we have they'd just assume we were all heading off for a care free holiday.

yourpics

Deleted User wrote: »

Had an interview a few weeks back, was told I'd hear back within three days with a yes or a no. Waited till the fifth with no word so rang up and got the old we'll get back to you. Two days later rang again, same thing. Two days later I rang up again and got the same reply. Rang up the next day, this time I rang a different department and asked to be transferred to the person I spoke to during my interview. Asked him if I'd been successful, was told I wasn't getting the job. Asked why he didn't contact me as promised, "I have better things to do than contact every failed job applicant". So I asked him if he had no intwntion of getting back to me why did he explicitly stated that he would contact me with a yes or a no, "I assumed when you didn't hear back you'd forget about it".
"could I get a letter saying how I applied for a job but was unsuccessful".
"sorry, company policy is that we do not provide that".
" is ther anyway at all I could get one, like to have it to show I'm trying to get a job and not sitting at home drinking all day"
"I suppose if you send me a cheque to cover the cost of printing the letter and signing it aswell as post I could see what I can do".
"oh, how much would that be?"
"10 euro should cover it"
"not a chance. Thanks but no thanks, I'll make a note of the interview and my follow up calls and they can contact you if there's an issue verifying that I applied but was unsuccessful"


He hung up then. Now I understand that lots of people are applying for each position but you don't tell someone that you'll get back to them within a certain time limit and them never bother. Had he said, if you don't hear from us within the week then sorry but you didn't get the job, fair enough but to repeatedly promise a return call and not get one is annoying beyond belief. To then turn the simple task of printing off a few lines saying such and such applied here into a money making scheme is either tightness gone too far or a stroke of genius. Imagine if 100 people applied and 40 paid to get a letter for the Social Welfare. Be a nice little earner.

Shocking attitude by that person who interviewed you.
I went to an interview were the first thing they said to me was "We will be providing all candidates with full feedback after the interviews regardless of whether they get the position or not".
I never heard a word from them and that was 6 months ago. :mad::mad:

I hope they call me up for the new Social Welfare interview, I have a mountain of real rejection letters.