This type of Installer will destroy the Aerial business

BowWow

B bopp wrote: »

again i ask which ones... there were other posts which were far more directed at individuals and escaped bans. ones that clearly identified businesses and yet nothing said.

A reasonable question............

Cantona's Collars

Reading the last few pages,I get the impression from some posters that there's a certain campaign to keep the installs business as a "boys own club".

THIS IS NOT THE CASE: The problem is the amount of guys who have seen the installs of aerials & dishes as easy money and are hardly qualified to use a ladder,let alone mount a dish or aerial.None of the experienced,certified installers that post here are on a point scoring exercise.The installs they photgraphed or described are examples of the "get in,lash it up & get out quick" type which are being done.For many of the customers of these guys there's no come-back if anything goes wrong whereas if they got someone with the proper credentials there is some hope of an after sales service.
I know some installers/retailers who are in the game a long time are no better and there are a few examples which I won't name here that would give any fly by night a run for their money in the shabby work stakes.

The genuine guys are afraid these bad installers will give the whole business a bad name and this already seems to be happening.

54kroc

zerks wrote: »

Reading the last few pages,I get the impression from some posters that there's a certain campaign to keep the installs business as a "boys own club".

THIS IS NOT THE CASE: The problem is the amount of guys who have seen the installs of aerials & dishes as easy money and are hardly qualified to use a ladder,let alone mount a dish or aerial.None of the experienced,certified installers that post here are on a point scoring exercise.The installs they photgraphed or described are examples of the "get in,lash it up & get out quick" type which are being done.For many of the customers of these guys there's no come-back if anything goes wrong whereas if they got someone with the proper credentials there is some hope of an after sales service.
I know some installers/retailers who are in the game a long time are no better and there are a few examples which I won't name here that would give any fly by night a run for their money in the shabby work stakes.

The genuine guys are afraid these bad installers will give the whole business a bad name and this already seems to be happening.

Some good points there, nothing new though, they've been giving the business a bad name for as long as I can remember.
I packed in installing around six years ago, because of these cowboys for all the reasons listed in the previous posts, In all honesty I don't know how legit installers put up with it.

Tony

54kroc wrote: »

In all honesty I don't know how legit installers put up with it.

Well as long as customers use these guys I don't see what can be done other than promoting the advantages of using a reputable installer.

B bopp

Tony wrote: »

54kroc wrote: »

In all honesty I don't know how legit installers put up with it.

Well as long as customers use these guys I don't see what can be done other than promoting the advantages of using a reputable installer.

And that's the point.....whingeing here about this guy and that guy in your backyard doesn't do anything because most people on here are professionals or enthusiasts. its up to the 3 associations to promote the virtues of using accredited installers

Cesium Clock

B bopp wrote: »

And that's the point.....whingeing here about this guy and that guy in your backyard doesn't do anything because most people on here are professionals or enthusiasts. its up to the 3 associations to promote the virtues of using accredited installers

Promoting costs money,
The ISAA was set up pre 'saorview' and the latter has had all the finance and brains behind it to do a better fist of it,

danjo

Cesium Clock wrote: »

Promoting costs money,
The ISAA was set up pre 'saorview' and the latter has had all the finance and brains behind it to do a better fist of it,

Promotion does indeed cost money and those who benefit should pay. The installer associations represent business interests with the overall intent on increasing profits. They benefit so they should pay.

B bopp

danjo wrote: »

Cesium Clock wrote: »

Promoting costs money,
The ISAA was set up pre 'saorview' and the latter has had all the finance and brains behind it to do a better fist of it,

Promotion does indeed cost money and those who benefit should pay. The installer associations represent business interests with the overall intent on increasing profits. They benefit so they should pay.

Maybe if it was thought about and planned properly it wouldn't need to cost too much. each association could organise community information evenings with other associations ie macro na feirme . ica . community organisations local radio. there are loads of ways of publishing the information to the public without it costing a fortune..... And why do these organisations charge fees if its not to be used to the benefits of its members... maybe that's the questions that should be asked....

Cesium Clock

quote ICDG moderator.

"The idea of the ICDG was to guide viewers in their digital choices, giving the options, and presenting the choices available. It was aimed towards viewers. Not technicians, and not installers."

B bopp

Cesium Clock wrote: »

quote ICDG moderator.

"The idea of the ICDG was to guide viewers in their digital choices, giving the options, and presenting the choices available. It was aimed towards viewers. Not technicians, and not installers."

i agree with icdg's goals and objectives but your point isn't relevant to this thread about installers and the associations that are meant to help govern the industry

Cesium Clock

B bopp wrote: »

i agree with icdg's goals and objectives but your point isn't relevant to this thread about installers and the associations that are meant to help govern the industry

The quote from the moderator applies to the whole forum including this thread
Therefore it is relevant, as the forum is not intended for use by installers, or discussion about installers,
The forum is for viewers.

B bopp

Should a discussion about installation issues and the governance of the industry not have a place in the public forum... as the end result is the consumer benefits from more communication between experienced and novice professionals and a setting of standards for professionals and DIYers alike

Itmakesnosense

Cesium Clock wrote: »

The quote from the moderator applies to the whole forum including this thread
Therefore it is relevant, as the forum is not intended for use by installers, or discussion about installers,
The forum is for viewers.

Well if thats the case then the forum should be left to viewers to only discuss the tv programmes they are watching and any reference to installations or equipment by anyone should be deleted. This particular thread which shows viewers the reality of what happens when you get an installer who is not trained should also be deleted because the viewers don't need to know anything beyond when the next episode of their favorite tv show is on tv. Actually just about all the threads in the forum should be deleted because they are irrelevant to the idea the forum was created for.

PogMoThoin

This place needs an installers sub forum, leave this one for public information about Saorview

St Senan

PogMoThoin wrote: »

This place needs an installers sub forum, leave this one for public information about Saorview

+1

Itmakesnosense

PogMoThoin wrote: »

This place needs an installers sub forum, leave this one for public information about Saorview

+1

byte

PogMoThoin wrote: »

This place needs an installers sub forum, leave this one for public information about Saorview

Honestly don't think it does, place has been fine since its inception, where it had installers posting regularly from Day 1 pretty much.

It's up to each trade body to set up its own fora for its members if they so wish.

Cesium Clock

PogMoThoin wrote: »

This place needs an installers sub forum, leave this one for public information about Saorview

+1

PogMoThoin

byte wrote: »

Honestly don't think it does, place has been fine since its inception, where it had installers posting regularly from Day 1 pretty much.

It's up to each trade body to set up its own fora for its members if they so wish.

The official Saorview rep was driven away FFS :eek: This forum is a mess. Could easily have been sorted with a second talk to saorview thread in the installers forum.

There hasn't really been a need for an unbiased public information place before now. The place needs to change to be better for the public, not the installers. The installers will still be here, they'll just get a forum to contain the issues, and don't deny there hasn't been issues, I've seen 3-4 bans in the last few days alone.

There are more installers here not in any trade body than those in, we haven't a hope of getting out word in on a trade body forum.

byte

PogMoThoin wrote: »

The official Saorview rep was driven away FFS :eek: This forum is a mess. Could easily have been sorted with a second talk to saorview thread in the installers forum.

There hasn't really been a need for an unbiased public information place before now. The place needs to change to be better for the public, not the installers. The installers will still be here, they'll just get a forum to contain the issues, and don't deny there hasn't been issues, I've seen 3-4 bans in the last few days alone.

There are more installers here not in any trade body than those in, we haven't a hope of getting out word in on a trade body forum.

Hmm, valid argument.

I suppose it'd do no harm to have a seperate Installer forum as a part of the Cable & Digital TV category - installers could still interact with standard users on these existing fora as per normal.

No harm in putting in a Forum Request?

Or you could have a private forum (maybe that's what you mean), where user requests are vetted. Would also stop the possibility of Joe Soap asking his queries in the INstaller forum as opposed to the current methods...

Digitaltvman

Only here a wet day, but was there a private, Open forum with the ISAA a few weeks ago, as I see on there web site.

I have tried to access it, but must be for private members, maybe they should open it up, as at least it's run by a business which is involved and not afraid of the big bad wolf, and then we can discuss Associations, groups etc without people been banned, as I see a few already here.

PogMoThoin

byte wrote: »

Hmm, valid argument.

I suppose it'd do no harm to have a seperate Installer forum as a part of the Cable & Digital TV category - installers could still interact with standard users on these existing fora as per normal.

No harm in putting in a Forum Request?

Or you could have a private forum (maybe that's what you mean), where user requests are vetted. Would also stop the possibility of Joe Soap asking his queries in the INstaller forum as opposed to the current methods...

I've opened a forum request thread, please support
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78260653

icdg

We're considering at the moment what the future of the forum should be and may open up a specific thread for this (participation in such a thread would be on the strict condition that there is no abuse directed towards moderators or it would be closed).

For the moment rest assured that there is NO BAN on installers participating in this forum nor is there (at present) a ban on trade discussion here. If and when this changes, we'll let you know.

Until this happens, can I ask that this thread go back on topic please or it will be closed.

Cesium Clock

[snipping a previously deleted comment]

The above statement was made to highlight the amount of abuse there is concerning Saorview and the recognised installer bodies.

Boards.ie as a public forum and as a resource for the public to gain up to date information regarding the ASO should be obliged to protect and inform the readers of boards as to how to prepare for ASO.

It is apparent that some of the moderaters either have no idea of what Saorview is , or what the goal of certain recognised by saorview installer bodies are.

By logic Saorview a publicly owned state body is in place to inform the public about the ASO, and as a recognised Saorview installer body the ISAA has a legitable right to highlight the verified untruths of the above installer.

3Monkeys

Cesium Clock wrote: »

[snipping a previously deleted comment]

The above statement was made to highlight the amount of abuse there is concerning Saorview and the recognised installer bodies.

Boards.ie as a public forum and as a resource for the public to gain up to date information regarding the ASO should be obliged to protect and inform the readers of boards as to how to prepare for ASO.

It is apparent that some of the moderaters either have no idea of what Saorview is , or what the goal of certain recognised by saorview installer bodies are.

By logic Saorview a publicly owned state body is in place to inform the public about the ASO, and as a recognised Saorview installer body the ISAA has a legitable right to highlight the verified untruths of the above installer.

This is my first post and as an avid reader of boards (not a poster over the years) I would like to thank all the contributors on here for great advise over the years,

From reading this thread it is apparent that all the regular people on here who know what is what i.e watty, rippy , scaller, tony, zerks, ronnie raygun, and other helpfull people who appear to be involved in the industry are under servere pressure from lads with a set of ladders and a dole card who dont know what they are at.

It's about time boards copped on and stand up for the people who make this forum what it is,

kbell

Bringing things back on topic, heres two i spotted in the last few days, the first is in Dunleer Co.Louth along the main street.



The second photo is of a job i was called out to, to take a look at, as the customer's SaorView channels were breaking up and they couldn't contact the person who fitted the system.
As well as the aerial pointing the wrong way, the person had used combiners and in an attempt to save on using cable, they used them outside rather than inside the attic.

byte

That first one looks like a DIY job to me... surely rogues aren't that bad?!

St Senan

Need for Irish official body to register licensed Aerial and Digital TV systems installers

Mutations like that 2nd picture are popping up everywhere.
Down this way i have been told that we have A Window blinds fitter, A metal Fabricator, An unemployed Jockey, A Part time butcher and A Photographer all out throwing up cheap Aerials and Dishes. And before some posters jump on me Zerks can also verify this aswell.

What Ireland needs is an Irish version of this http://www.rdi-lb.co.uk/why.html.

SalteeDog

I'm just back from France and it's clear that dodgy installs aren't limited to this country. In particular there are lots of unsheltered 80cm dishes attached to poles which also host big aerials. In fairness most use solid looking lashing kits but lots are attached to flaky old brickwork.

PressTheButton

scaller wrote: »

...
What Ireland needs is an Irish version of this http://www.rdi-lb.co.uk/why.html.

+ 1 for licensed installers in Ireland.

Digitaltv

PressTheButton wrote: »

+ 1 for licensed installers in Ireland.

I believe the ISAA have been in touch with Mr rabbite about this, but not sure how they got on, as I asked the same question to one of the directors last week at a meeting with them in Athlone last week.

Must say a very professional setup, as there where three of the management there with Saorview, and they where discussioning all aspects of this business outside the meeting, and they all seemed to know this business inside out.

icdg

This thread is going to be closed if there is any more implicit or explicit criticism of the moderation on this forum. Bans may also be issued.

It is not a subject for discussion on this thread or until we decide where we are going on it, anywhere else.

St Senan

Here is another install done by a Professionally Qualified Saorview Installer who has a Fetac Level 5 cert.

Cesium Clock

scaller wrote: »

Here is another install done by a Professionally Qualified Saorview Installer who has a Fetac Level 5 cert.

What a ****ing disgrace of a job, how the hell did he expect to get paid for ****e work like that.

steveon

scaller wrote: »

Here is another install done by a Professionally Qualified Saorview Installer who has a Fetac Level 5 cert.

Crikey that;'s shocking I seriously must start taking a few photos of installs around Limerick as you lot aint seen nothing yet...

PogMoThoin

There's nothing to prove most of these shots were not DIY installs by the home owners themselves. Thread title should be changed to poor installations.

steveon

PogMoThoin wrote: »

There's nothing to prove most of these shots were not DIY installs by the home owners themselves. Thread title should be changed to poor installations.

Can agree with you on that to some stage but some are genuinely done by so called professionals...who do shoddy work to ensure a guaranted service call....in the future...

cast_iron

PogMoThoin wrote: »

There's nothing to prove most of these shots were not DIY installs by the home owners themselves. Thread title should be changed to poor installations.

True. I suppose all we can do is take the posters at their word. As long as no one is named or identified, there is no harm.
Though I agree, the thread should be fundamentally about highlighting shoddy installs, rather than attributing the pictures to nameless people with supposed qualifications (which no one can verify either way) supposedly destroying an industry.

St Senan

Yep I can sadly say that a Guy got paid to install that.


This Next Picture I dont know if it was a DIY or if some guy had the cheek to ask for money after doing this.

swedex

Genuine question, why don't the installers here take a few pictures of their own work and post them in a new thread about what a good install would look like.

Clearly the general public, if going by this thread, don't know what's good or bad so maybe if they saw a proper install on a chimney or wherever aerials and dishes get installed, there might be more awareness of what to expect from the person they hire.

cast_iron

scaller wrote: »

This Next Picture I dont know if it was a DIY or if some guy had the cheek to ask for money after doing this.

The problem is, as swedex says, whose to know that's a cowboy job. It's vaguely tidy, if a bit busy, and could be viewed as a 'good job' to the uninitiated.

Of course, everyone here knows well it's a cowboy job, but what use is that?

And how on earth is that vhf antenna attached?:eek:

Tony

Its not a bad idea but don't think boards would be too happy about it as it might be straying into advertising.

swedex wrote: »

Genuine question, why don't the installers here take a few pictures of their own work and post them in a new thread about what a good install would look like.

The Cush

Two questions in the Dáil on Wed regarding Saorview installers from Wexford's Mick Wallace

Written Answers - Broadcasting Services
Wednesday, 2 May 2012

26. Deputy Mick Wallace asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if his attention has been drawn to the fact that hundreds of unregistered digital installers are advertising the installation of Saorview; if he will consider setting up a register of digital installers to counteract this; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21947/12]

27. Deputy Mick Wallace asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if he will set up a register of digital installers in view of the fact that hundreds of unregistered installers are operating at the expense of those who registered their businesses to provide the service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21948/12]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): I propose to take Questions Nos. 26 and 27 together.

I have no function in relation to the matters raised by the Deputy. I have however, made enquiries with SAORVIEW. There is no registration system for installers of TV equipment in this country. I have been informed that SAORVIEW has established relationships with three trade bodies representing installers – the Irish Satellite and Aerial Association (ISAA), the National Guild of Master Craftsmen, and the Confederation of Aerial Industries (CAI). It is my understanding that SAORVIEW has agreed with each of the bodies to the incorporation of the term “recognised by SAORVIEW” as part of each Group’s logo, which can be displayed by installers who are members of the respective Groups and who adhere to certain conditions as set out by SAORVIEW.

I have been informed by SAORVIEW that it is very vigilant in monitoring the use of the SAORVIEW brand and follow up on complaints and any misrepresentation of SAORVIEW and, in certain instances, this has lead to legal correspondence being entered into. Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to make it clear that, in terms of members of the public being solicited on a door-to-door basis by installers, neither SAORVIEW nor RTÉ are sending representatives to people’s doors to check their televisions or aerials nor have they commissioned or endorsed any door to door sales activities under the SAORVIEW or RTÉ brand. Should the Deputy be aware of anyone misusing the SAORVIEW brand, or engaging in such misrepresentation, I would ask him to contact SAORVIEW directly.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/05/02/00040.asp

cast_iron

Tony wrote: »

Its not a bad idea but don't think boards would be too happy about it as it might be straying into advertising.

I don't think so, Tony. If made purely in the context of showing people how it's done, then to call it advertising would be a stretch.

Adding pictures to the existing exposure people get on boards won't really breach any gap between the current setup and advertising, I don't think. I think we all know that scaller the guys that post on here know their trade inside and out and would have no problem recommending them. They have built that reputation entirely themselves.

Perhaps it's a good idea, but maybe not necessarily tie the pics to a "this is my work" kind of mentality. Context is king, as they say.

PressTheButton

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): I propose to take Questions Nos. 26 and 27 together.

I have no function in relation to the matters raised by the Deputy.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/05/02/00040.asp

If the Minister for Communications has no function in these matters who has?

Looks like there will be no Irish official body to register licensed aerial and TV systems installers set up any time soon. Just a prediction on my part - not to be read as a statement of fact.

Cesium Clock

PressTheButton wrote: »

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/05/02/00040.asp

If the Minister for Communications has no function in these matters who has?

Looks like there will be no Irish official body to register licensed aerial and TV systems installers set up any time soon. Just a prediction on my part - not to be read as a statement of fact.

Seems that way the ISAA were ignored by the previous minister Eamon Ryan, and were in contact with the current minister Pat Rabbite in Sept 2011 regarding the possibility of RDI type scheme.

3Monkeys

swedex wrote: »

Genuine question, why don't the installers here take a few pictures of their own work and post them in a new thread about what a good install would look like.

Clearly the general public, if going by this thread, don't know what's good or bad so maybe if they saw a proper install on a chimney or wherever aerials and dishes get installed, there might be more awareness of what to expect from the person they hire.

chimney install

Tony

3Monkeys wrote: »

chimney install

Nice job. Have you tried log periodic antennas at all? they look a little better and good bandwidth/gain combination .

3Monkeys

Tony wrote: »

Nice job. Have you tried log periodic antennas at all? they look a little better and good bandwidth/gain combination .

yes quite often have a picture somewhere, great for impluse noise rejection, the aerial above was installed out in the sticks not to far from the transmitter, and sheltered via the roof, installed about 15 months ago, no call back so far,

Tony

I've also found that the mini log ants are great close to the transmitter.