Homeopathy for Dogs

sensibleken

JCabot wrote: »

We have 2 dogs and 4 cats and use a homeopathic vet also after years of throwing money at the conventional vets and drug companies. It worked for all our animals so theres no way to explain it away as placebo.

80% of the population believe in some sort of god yet find it difficult believe in homeopathy. The drug companies are only here to make money from sick people and have had many f**k up along the way. I rermember my neighbors son was effected by thalidomide.

what remedies were used for what condidtions?
was anything else tried in conjunction?
How did administering water cure your pets?

Whatever your opinion of drug companies it does not translate into proof of homepathy

Advocates here may think critics are being pedantic but it stems from a very real concern for the welfare of pets. If they are sick they need actual treatment, not just expensive water

Paparazzo

JCabot wrote: »

We have 2 dogs and 4 cats and use a homeopathic vet also after years of throwing money at the conventional vets and drug companies. It worked for all our animals so theres no way to explain it away as placebo.

80% of the population believe in some sort of god yet find it difficult believe in homeopathy. The drug companies are only here to make money from sick people and have had many f**k up along the way. I rermember my neighbors son was effected by thalidomide.

The conditions would have cleared up if you didn't use homeopathy. Homeopathy works on the same basis as Uri Gellar does to fix watches on tv shows. He gets enough people to take a "broken" watch and shake them, the laws of averages mean that some of them will start ticking again. Homeopathy is the same, it "cures" illnesses that would have gone away on their own, or it's used in conjunction with change of diet/supplements/other medicine/change of lifestyle and it's the homeopathy that gets the praise.
Surely you know it can't work? It's impossible for it to work. I can explain how:
Water molecules have a "memory" according to homeopathy. Why doesn't the water pick up the "memory" of every substance it comes into contact with, but just the item written on the lable of the homeopathy bottle? If the water came from a spring it would have contained minerals for years. Molecules of water in the drip you take would have passed through sewers, peoples bodies etc. Why doesn't it "remember" these things? Oh yes, it only "remembers" stuff that it is shaken in a bottle with.

JCabot

sensibleken wrote: »

what remedies were used for what condidtions?
was anything else tried in conjunction?
How did administering water cure your pets?

Whatever your opinion of drug companies it does not translate into proof of homepathy

Advocates here may think critics are being pedantic but it stems from a very real concern for the welfare of pets. If they are sick they need actual treatment, not just expensive water

Typical answer from someone who has never taken the time to understand how homeopathy is used. Its not one remedy one condition and symptoms dealt with were from cancer, car impacts to skin complaints. My old vet wanted to put our dog down because of cancer but he still here 4years later and no signs of its return.

Never tried to administer water as a cure .

The pharmaceuticals are huge money making industries, they own many of the research institutes, they train many of the doctors, they conduct the clinical trials, they sponsor the hospitals, they influence our governments and it’s in there interest for you to use there products. WAKE UP

sensibleken

JCabot wrote: »

Typical answer from someone who has never taken the time to understand how homeopathy is used. Its not one remedy one condition and symptoms dealt with were from cancer, car impacts to skin complaints. My old vet wanted to put our dog down because of cancer but he still here 4years later and no signs of its return.

Never tried to administer water as a cure .

The pharmaceuticals are huge money making industries, they own many of the research institutes, they train many of the doctors, they conduct the clinical trials, they sponsor the hospitals, they influence our governments and it’s in there interest for you to use there products. WAKE UP

I actually understand homeopathy very well.

But if you think I dont please educate me. How does giving water cure cancer? Homepathic remedies are water, nothing else.

RitaW

Homeopathy has and still works for our dog who has chronic bloat. We spent thousands on medical care and second opinions, our dog went through alot with Biopsies, immunesurpress treatment, steroids and then Atopica. Homeopathy was our last chance and it has worked. It's something I never thought on trying but it has given Rosco a better quality of life and his condition is manageable now.

You can read the whole story at my blog it's in 4 parts and it will explain what I discussed with the Homeopathic Vet and course of treatment. http://countryhounds.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/roscos-bloat-story-part-iii/

JCabot

RitaW wrote: »

Homeopathy has and still works for our dog who has chronic bloat. We spent thousands on medical care and second opinions, our dog went through alot with Biopsies, immunesurpress treatment, steroids and then Atopica. Homeopathy was our last chance and it has worked. It's something I never thought on trying but it has given Rosco a better quality of life and his condition is manageable now.

You can read the whole story at my blog it's in 4 parts and it will explain what I discussed with the Homeopathic Vet and course of treatment. http://countryhounds.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/roscos-bloat-story-part-iii/

Tom is a brillant homeopath & vet

sensibleken

RitaW wrote: »

Homeopathy has and still works for our dog who has chronic bloat. We spent thousands on medical care and second opinions, our dog went through alot with Biopsies, immunesurpress treatment, steroids and then Atopica. Homeopathy was our last chance and it has worked. It's something I never thought on trying but it has given Rosco a better quality of life and his condition is manageable now.

You can read the whole story at my blog it's in 4 parts and it will explain what I discussed with the Homeopathic Vet and course of treatment. http://countryhounds.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/roscos-bloat-story-part-iii/

Forgive me if I've missed something important here but your blog states that you also changed his diet and you are using the homeopathic remedies in conjunction with the change in diet. If this is the case then it is the diet that is helping. The homeopathic remedies you are administering have no ingredients other than water

TheBunk1

boomerang wrote: »

There are a lot of unqualified people out there selling themselves as homeopaths, encouraging people to quit their medications and giving advice without any professional training. No wonder the treatment is so often futile.

A qualified homeopath? There's an oxymoron if ever I've heard one. They're selling you water!

JCabot wrote: »

Typical answer from someone who has never taken the time to understand how homeopathy is used. Its not one remedy one condition and symptoms dealt with were from cancer, car impacts to skin complaints. My old vet wanted to put our dog down because of cancer but he still here 4years later and no signs of its return.

Never tried to administer water as a cure .

The pharmaceuticals are huge money making industries, they own many of the research institutes, they train many of the doctors, they conduct the clinical trials, they sponsor the hospitals, they influence our governments and it’s in there interest for you to use there products. WAKE UP

So your vet has a cure for cancer (in dogs at least)? How have we not heard of this ground-breaking discovery?....

RitaW wrote: »

Homeopathy has and still works for our dog who has chronic bloat. We spent thousands on medical care and second opinions, our dog went through alot with Biopsies, immunesurpress treatment, steroids and then Atopica. Homeopathy was our last chance and it has worked. It's something I never thought on trying but it has given Rosco a better quality of life and his condition is manageable now.

You can read the whole story at my blog it's in 4 parts and it will explain what I discussed with the Homeopathic Vet and course of treatment. http://countryhounds.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/roscos-bloat-story-part-iii/

Sounds like the vet took a very thorough history of your dog and made an assessment to find the most suitable diet, which you eventually did.

The homeopathic "medicine" is merely an unnecessary and pointless adjunct. Oh, and an additional revenue stream...

Owen

Homeopaths take a solution with a herb in it, and dilute it so many many times that if you had a swimming pool full of the final dilution, not a drop would be from the original pre-diluted vial.

They claim water has a memory (Which in itself, is horsesh*t - it has two hydrogen atoms, and one oxygen, that's about it), and that it can remember the properties of the original solution. Yet somehow, it does that while forgetting all the other stuff that's been in the water down through the years, used condoms, poop, pee, mud, rubbish, dead animals festering, shopping trolleys ...

Honestly, if your pet is sick and you're thinking Homeopathy, you're essentially abusing your pet by prolonging it's illness regardless of good intentions. Bring it to a better vet than you're going to at the moment, but for the love of your pet who loves you unconditionally, return the favour and avoid this crackpot nonsense that has no scientific basis behind it, and cannot, will not work. Ever.

fatmammycat

JCabot wrote: »

Typical answer from someone who has never taken the time to understand how homeopathy is used. Its not one remedy one condition and symptoms dealt with were from cancer, car impacts to skin complaints. My old vet wanted to put our dog down because of cancer but he still here 4years later and no signs of its return.

Never tried to administer water as a cure .

The pharmaceuticals are huge money making industries, they own many of the research institutes, they train many of the doctors, they conduct the clinical trials, they sponsor the hospitals, they influence our governments and it’s in there interest for you to use there products. WAKE UP

LOL. I forgot homeopathy is free and isn't a terrific money spinner for vets and lay people alike. My own vet thinks it hilarious that folk are happy to pay through the nose for it.
Seriously, many of us understand homeopathy perfectly well. If we're going to produce anecdotal evidence to buttress our arguments, my cat Puddy (who died aged 21 in December) had cancer since she was 15, she lived a further 6 years thanks to the magnificent work of those drug companies you are so content to besmirch. IF you think water is keeping your cat alive, that's your choice, but don't dismiss people who dismiss homeopathy as coming from a place of ignorance.o

As to the dog who improved from bloat AFTER a change in his diet, only pure cognitive dissonace would lay gratitude at homeopathy.

Paparazzo

RitaW wrote: »

Homeopathy has and still works for our dog who has chronic bloat. We spent thousands on medical care and second opinions, our dog went through alot with Biopsies, immunesurpress treatment, steroids and then Atopica. Homeopathy was our last chance and it has worked. It's something I never thought on trying but it has given Rosco a better quality of life and his condition is manageable now.

You can read the whole story at my blog it's in 4 parts and it will explain what I discussed with the Homeopathic Vet and course of treatment. http://countryhounds.wordpress.com/2011/08/22/roscos-bloat-story-part-iii/

Glad Rosco is ok. But i can 100% guarantee that it wasn't the homeopathy that did it. As other posters said, it's just a few drops of water your dog got. It's impossible for that to cure him.
Interesting that for a bowel problem, you think the complete change of diet and diet supplements didn't cure him, it was the homeopatic "medicine" that did it.
Fair play to the homeopaty vet for changing his diet if it worked, but all it means was that your last vet did a bad job. He should have made the same dietry changes.

5uspect

JCabot wrote: »

We have 2 dogs and 4 cats and use a homeopathic vet also after years of throwing money at the conventional vets and drug companies. It worked for all our animals so theres no way to explain it away as placebo.

You clearly do not understand the placebo effect.

RhodeIslandRed

Owen wrote: »

Homeopaths take a solution with a herb in it, and dilute it so many many times that if you had a swimming pool full of the final dilution, not a drop would be from the original pre-diluted vial.

They claim water has a memory (Which in itself, is horsesh*t - it has two hydrogen atoms, and one oxygen, that's about it), and that it can remember the properties of the original solution. Yet somehow, it does that while forgetting all the other stuff that's been in the water down through the years, used condoms, poop, pee, mud, rubbish, dead animals festering, shopping trolleys ...

Honestly, if your pet is sick and you're thinking Homeopathy, you're essentially abusing your pet by prolonging it's illness regardless of good intentions. Bring it to a better vet than you're going to at the moment, but for the love of your pet who loves you unconditionally, return the favour and avoid this crackpot nonsense that has no scientific basis behind it, and cannot, will not work. Ever.

How dare you say I'm abusing my dog who has been to the vet almost every month for the past nine months. I paid for the most expensive medicine they carry in the vet's practise for nine months. The dog will continue to see a vet until she is cured. If I chose to bring her to a vet that also practises homeopathy and takes the whole environment into account when treating the dog, then I am happy to do that. My dog is much loved and cared for.
I'm sorry I posted this issue and I will be very reluctant to post anything again.

sensibleken

RhodeIslandRed wrote: »

How dare you say I'm abusing my dog who has been to the vet almost every month for the past nine months. I paid for the most expensive medicine they carry in the vet's practise for nine months. The dog will continue to see a vet until she is cured. If I chose to bring her to a vet that also practises homeopathy and takes the whole environment into account when treating the dog, then I am happy to do that. My dog is much loved and cared for.
I'm sorry I posted this issue and I will be very reluctant to post anything again.

RhodeIslandred, do you understand what homeopathy is? Its is not medicine that takes into account enviromental factors.

fatmammycat

RhodeIslandRed wrote: »

How dare you say I'm abusing my dog who has been to the vet almost every month for the past nine months. I paid for the most expensive medicine they carry in the vet's practise for nine months. The dog will continue to see a vet until she is cured. If I chose to bring her to a vet that also practises homeopathy and takes the whole environment into account when treating the dog, then I am happy to do that. My dog is much loved and cared for.
I'm sorry I posted this issue and I will be very reluctant to post anything again.

He didn't say you were abusing your dog, he means ( I think) treating the dog using ONLY homeopathy would be abuse in his eyes. As long as you are attending a vet of course you're doing your best by your dog.

RitaW

Paparazzo wrote: »

Glad Rosco is ok. But i can 100% guarantee that it wasn't the homeopathy that did it. As other posters said, it's just a few drops of water your dog got. It's impossible for that to cure him.
Interesting that for a bowel problem, you think the complete change of diet and diet supplements didn't cure him, it was the homeopatic "medicine" that did it.
Fair play to the homeopaty vet for changing his diet if it worked, but all it means was that your last vet did a bad job. He should have made the same dietry changes.

Thank you

Rosco was on the raw diet though before we contacted the homeopath vet and he was still bloating. The vet in Belfast wanted him off the raw diet as he thought it was a certain meat protein causing the bloating, due to the amount of heli bacteria in his intestine. 6 months down the line no treatment the vet gave us helped and we used our own judgement and put Rosco back on the Raw after the treatment of Atopica. Atopica was the final treatment he could give us and it worked for another dog with chronic bloat.

It would of broke your heart if you seen the mess Rosco was in after all that treatment. The vet could do nothing more for us in Belfast...and he's one of the best.

Vets notes to Homeopath

A quick summary: successful gastropexy performed, all metabolic and local tests completed including full thickness SI and Gastric biopsies negative. A suspicion of GI antigenic stimulation on biopsy followed up by dietary restriction of several types, and anti-inflammatory and low dose immunosuppressive medications – all failed to improve the situation. I believe Rosco has the breed-related primary idiopathic neurological gastric motility disorder. These cases are awful. Rosco is blessed with a fantastic owner and has had every treatment I can think of. All left to me to do would be to fit a low-profile permanent gastrotomy tube, to facilitate management of the bloats as they occur. Not an ideal solution.

We contacted Tom for help on a recommendation from a friend. I'd never of thought on a Homeopathic vet it was a last resort for us. Our local vet was already treating his bloating problem with nux vomica so we thought it was worth a try.

Tom went through the raw diet with us which Rosco was already on. We were doing what he suggested by adding different meat proteins slowly and trying to find a trigger.

Rosco still continues to bloat the problem hasn't fully gone away. Yes we found a food which works a bit better but he can still bloat for no reason at all. We use the Lycopodium/nux vomica to relieve the bloating. I'd never recommend homeopathy as a replacement for real medical treatment but we were willing to try anything.

RhodeIslandred I hope you can find a treatment that works for your dog.

Owen

fatmammycat wrote: »

He didn't say you were abusing your dog, he means ( I think) treating the dog using ONLY homeopathy would be abuse in his eyes. As long as you are attending a vet of course you're doing your best by your dog.

Pretty much what this says ^

But seriously. Homeopathy's horsesh*t. It's this type of 'Oh we must listen to everything in the name of balance, Homeopathy, Reiki, Crystal Healing' which is turning the advances of humanity back generations, and now we're inflicting this crap on our beloved pets. How long before someone's dangling a crystal pendant in front of a Huskie telling the owner their Aura's the wrong colour?

RhodeIslandRed

sensibleken wrote: »

RhodeIslandred, do you understand what homeopathy is? Its is not medicine that takes into account enviromental factors.

Did I ever say that that it is???? I said AND TAKES THE ENVIRONMENT INTO ACCOUNT.

5uspect

RhodeIslandRed wrote: »

How dare you say I'm abusing my dog who has been to the vet almost every month for the past nine months. I paid for the most expensive medicine they carry in the vet's practise for nine months. The dog will continue to see a vet until she is cured. If I chose to bring her to a vet that also practises homeopathy and takes the whole environment into account when treating the dog, then I am happy to do that. My dog is much loved and cared for.
I'm sorry I posted this issue and I will be very reluctant to post anything again.

If your vet is pushing homeopathy I would seriously consider finding a different vet as I would consider such practice to be a serious flaw in their ability to critically understand what it is they are doing. Doctors will often give a sugar pill to a worried patient, with notable effect, to reassure, but homeopathy makes claims that don't stand up.

No one doubts that you only have the best intentions for your pet, all we are telling you is that the course of action you, and your vet, are pursuing is dangerous. A homeopathic remedy may seem like a conventional intervention but it contains zero detectable active ingredient since it has been diluted beyond statistical significance. So much so that James Randi regularly overdoses himself as part of public demonstrations into the lunacy of homeopathy.

RhodeIslandRed

5uspect wrote: »

If your vet is pushing homeopathy I would seriously consider finding a different vet as I would consider such practice to be a serious flaw in their ability to critically understand what it is they are doing. Doctors will often give a sugar pill to a worried patient, with notable effect, to reassure, but homeopathy makes claims that don't stand up.

No one doubts that you only have the best intentions for your pet, all we are telling you is that the course of action you, and your vet, are pursuing is dangerous. A homeopathic remedy may seem like a conventional intervention but it contains zero detectable active ingredient since it has been diluted beyond statistical significance. So much so that James Randi regularly overdoses himself as part of public demonstrations into the lunacy of homeopathy.

I NEVER said the vet is pushing homeopathy. My vet present vet does not even practise it.

dahamsta

Just a note to thank the people posting clear, fact-based information on the nonsense that is homeopathy; it's important that it isn't perpetuated. If your pet got better when homeopatic water was administered, it would have gotten better anyway. It's a coincidence, nothing more.

I will never deal with a vet that practices or even refers homeopathy. If they believe in homeopathy, I can't trust their judgement with anything else.

JCabot

RhodeIslandRed wrote: »

How dare you say I'm abusing my dog who has been to the vet almost every month for the past nine months. I paid for the most expensive medicine they carry in the vet's practise for nine months. The dog will continue to see a vet until she is cured. If I chose to bring her to a vet that also practises homeopathy and takes the whole environment into account when treating the dog, then I am happy to do that. My dog is much loved and cared for.
I'm sorry I posted this issue and I will be very reluctant to post anything again.

Its great to see so many wikipedia educated people commenting here.

If you have tried expensive medicine without results what harm can it do if you treat your dog homeopathically. Sure all the opinionated expert's here reckon they do nothing so theres no way they can harm your dog.

Best of luck on whatever treatment you finally decide on.

Owen

JCabot wrote: »

Its great to see so many wikipedia educated people commenting here.

I think we're all a bit above that comment TBH. You don't need Wikipedia to understand how much of an absolute farce Homeopathy is. The very basis of Homeopathy - water has a memory - is complete fud, and it it were true, the amount of disease and bacteria in normal water bodies would be enough to contaminate every single Homeopathic medicine if true.

gypsy_rose

JCabot wrote: »

Its great to see so many wikipedia educated people commenting here.

If you have tried expensive medicine without results what harm can it do if you treat your dog homeopathically. Sure all the opinionated expert's here reckon they do nothing so theres no way they can harm your dog.

Best of luck on whatever treatment you finally decide on.

What harm besides needless expense and the perpetuation of a myth? OP, please just try what Seamus recommended in his first post before you go down the road of paying for homeopathy. Put it this way, his technique is definitly cheaper, so if it works, why not? If his technique doesn't work, you can reconsider the homeopathy, though I would not recommend it because it is a lie manufactured to take advantage of well meaning and compassionate people such as yourself.

Hope your dog gets better soon

Ellis Dee

sensibleken wrote: »

How would homeopathy work on a dog. They have no knowledge of the placebo effect.

My thoughts exactly. The placebo effect can be beneficial if people really believe the medicine they are getting is going to help them. I suspect it has something to do with the mind mobilising curative forces in the body that we do not yet understand. Homeopathy itself is based on the idea that if water has contained some tiny traces of a beneficial, curative substance, it "remembers*" it and mediates that substance's beneficial effects.:)

Dogs, as clever as they are, can't possibly grasp such abstract concepts. A pat on the head and conveying the message that you love your pet, that he is accepted, will probably bring on a cure at least as well as any homeopathic medicine...:cool:

Trust medical science and get a second, and third opinion until you get it right for your pet. I hope he gets well soon.:D


* Tim Minchin makes the very good point that water can remember the good things that have been in it, but - oddly - forgets all the piss and poo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0W7Jbc_Vhw

seamus

Off-topic slightly; it is possible that there's a placebo effect with dogs, but I don't know if they've ever tried to test it. In the same way that there's a very strong placebo effect for children (kiss it better), it's not unreasonable to think that an association between medicine and feeling better can be made in the dog's mind which triggers a placebo effect.

For example - if the dog has a specific routine, but every so often receives a little pill and soon afterwards his malady is gone, he may make an association between this change in routine and feeling better. So theoretically it is possible that when you stick a pill in for any malady, the dog will assume that it is to make them feel better and the placebo effect kicks in.
Obviously since it is impossible to communicate with the animal at that level we'll never know.

But it would be possible to test the effect.

RitaW

seamus wrote: »

Off-topic slightly; it is possible that there's a placebo effect with dogs, but I don't know if they've ever tried to test it. In the same way that there's a very strong placebo effect for children (kiss it better), it's not unreasonable to think that an association between medicine and feeling better can be made in the dog's mind which triggers a placebo effect.

For example - if the dog has a specific routine, but every so often receives a little pill and soon afterwards his malady is gone, he may make an association between this change in routine and feeling better. So theoretically it is possible that when you stick a pill in for any malady, the dog will assume that it is to make them feel better and the placebo effect kicks in.
Obviously since it is impossible to communicate with the animal at that level we'll never know.

But it would be possible to test the effect.

It's very hard to know but your question does make you think. Possible to test it on this end, next time he bloats I'll try putting something else into his mouth instead of the homeopathic remedy see what the reaction is. It will be interesting to see if there's a difference.

Once we give him the remedy he'll relax more and release the wind. Maybe he associates getting the remedy with helping him. We'll relaxed more when he's treated thinking the remedy will help and then he'll relax more.

I'll report back

sensibleken

RhodeIslandRed wrote: »

Did I ever say that that it is???? I said AND TAKES THE ENVIRONMENT INTO ACCOUNT.

as does all of medicine. I ask again do you understand what homeopathy is?

boomerang

My vet uses homeopathy on beef and dairy cattle alongside conventional treatment, and at no extra cost to the farmer. I doubt there is a placebo effect in cattle; the treatment is usually once-off and short-term (max. 3 days) so not long enough for the animal to connect any sense of improved well-being (be it coincidental or not) with the treatment given.

I take grave offence at the expertise and knowledge of my vet (or any vet) being questioned because she is a homeopath. Clearly none of the posters that hold this view have ever actually been to a homeopathic vet with their pet.

Look at it this way:

• The people on thread who have used homeopathic vets did so when conventional medicine had failed to improve the pet's condition.

• Any of the vets mentioned on thread have the same expertise as any qualified vet, and have chosen to explore homeopathy in addition to their continuing professional education.

• Paying a homeopathic vet is no different than paying a vet who doesn't practise homeopathy. In essence, seeing a homeopathic vet when other treatments have failed is essentially a referral. The homeopathic vet will fully review the case history and treatments given to date that have proven ineffective.

• The pet's progress will be monitored by the homeopathic vet and any deterioration in their condition will be treated.

So again I ask: What is the harm to these pets? These are caring, competent owners who have exhausted other treatment avenues. The homeopathic vet is a professional, bound by the Veterinary Council of Ireland. Tom Farrington for example is widely-held in high regard by other Irish vets, regardless of their own views on homeopathy.

There are plenty of loony belief systems out there, but if they're harmless, I don't lose sleep over them. Each to their own. Even Mormons And I'm rather tempted to say "Mind your own business!"

RhodeIslandRed

sensibleken wrote: »

as does all of medicine. I ask again do you understand what homeopathy is?

Do you have any other hobby apart from annoying people on Boards? Go and patronize someone else.