Other wokrers doing same job getting better rate per hour

bizzo

Hi im looking for some advice please on behalf of my other half.

Working in a Hotel Spa for the last 4 years on an hourly rate. The hotel has only herself and one other person as full time.ie 39hours per week. The hotel then has roughly 8 other staff who dont have the same training as the 2 full timers.Their employment would have started after the 2 full timers. Last november the girls noticed that the part timers are getting 1.50 per hour more than them and have been for 4/5 months prior to them noticing it. They went to their manager and he said he would sort it out.. fast forward to christmas time and they were told it would be sorted in a matter of days.. fast forward to yesterday when they were told that there were no raises being given accross the entire hotel.

Is this legal? They do more work because they are more qualified but earn less)

Can they get that back dated to when the part timers were getting the better rate.

They are not in a union.

Any help appreciated.

Peregrinus

bizzo wrote: »

Hi im looking for some advice please on behalf of my other half.

Working in a Hotel Spa for the last 4 years on an hourly rate. The hotel has only herself and one other person as full time.ie 39hours per week. The hotel then has roughly 8 other staff who dont have the same training as the 2 full timers.Their employment would have started after the 2 full timers. Last november the girls noticed that the part timers are getting 1.50 per hour more than them and have been for 4/5 months prior to them noticing it. They went to their manager and he said he would sort it out.. fast forward to christmas time and they were told it would be sorted in a matter of days.. fast forward to yesterday when they were told that there were no raises being given accross the entire hotel.

Is this legal? They do more work because they are more qualified but earn less)

Can they get that back dated to when the part timers were getting the better rate.

They are not in a union.

Any help appreciated.

From your OP, the two full-timers are women.

What about the part-timers?

Or, is there any other distinction between the full-timers and the-part timers that would suggest the employer is discriminating on the basis of a forbidden ground?

bizzo

Thanks for your reply.

All the staff are female. No there is no basis for them to be paying them different rates. Their arguement was that thes part timers cam in later and were given this rate as their hourly pay while the two girls who have more training and experience get less?

Its become a joke now. my other half is very upset by it. Its kind of a "tough luck" attitude that she is getting from her superiors.

Procrastastudy

Not legal advice but join a union - it's usually the best and most efficient way of resolving work place disputes. Please note this is a personal opinion from experience. I don't think my socialist leanings are any secret...

I suppose it could be argued the FTs are on a salary?

bizzo

No they are all paid at an hourly rate. If she misses a day she loses her 8hrs. So i dont think that could be argued.

ResearchWill

bizzo wrote: »

No they are all paid at an hourly rate. If she misses a day she loses her 8hrs. So i dont think that could be argued.

That does not mean she is not on a salary. The PT could have extra hourly rate to cover holiday entitlement.

But I believe as you have not ID a equality ground, then an employer can pay other people more.

dats_right

Generally speaking an employer is entitled to pay different rates of pay to staff doing the same job. This is the free market at work and is very common. In reality there is nothing unlawful in paying a more junior staff member better than a more experienced or better qualified colleague.

The only exceptions being that the employer cannot discriminate based on one of the nine unlawful grounds and must adhere to minimum pay rates, collective bargains, etc.

bizzo

But how does that even make sense that a part timer, less qualified, less experienced be entitled to a better wage. Most of these workers are straight out of college while my OH and collegue are working there 4 years.

Thats madness! Im not saying that about you or any of the posts that have been posted already just the notion that part timers who do roughly 20-25hrs a week dont come out with that much less after tax etc compared to the full time staff!

Procrastastudy

It doesn't really apart from they don't have the security of a full time position. However we live in a free country with a free market and unless it's discrimination then there isn't much you can do except take your issues to management. In an ideal world they will explain the logic / rectify the situation. That said you are one they are many. Unite workers, unite!

I should point out while it is discriminatory to fire people for joining a union most companies will try and get you out as soon as you do. Just thought I'd put that in for balance. I especially like the Wal-Mart rapid response unit which is ALLEGED to exist with its own private jet...

bizzo

Thanks for your reply. Dont think this particular place has a jet but i could be wrong!

Finnbar01

When do the part timers work? Do they work unsociable hours or at the weekend?

tricky D

It's legal. The rates are determined by whatever the contract says, not what would be a sort of natural justice. Less than ideal obviously.

bizzo

Finnbar01 wrote: »

When do the part timers work? Do they work unsociable hours or at the weekend?

My missus works 3 weekends out of 4. Part timers will work the odd weekend the latest shift finishing at 9pm(which my OH does 2times a week). They will normally be working when the 2 full timers are fully booked. Or if a particular treatment books in that the part timers arent trained in, the full timer will take it and a part timer will take something more basic.

bizzo

tricky D wrote: »

It's legal. The rates are determined by whatever the contract says, not what would be a sort of natural justice. Less than ideal obviously.

Less than ideal is right. But the notion that someone who is less qualified, experienced and in most cases less interested gets paid a better rate make my blood boil.

tricky D

It's not quite as bad as the position I was once in during the dotcom madness, where the people we were interviewing for subordinate positions, had to be offered more than I and my colleague were getting due to a mad job market. Got it sorted in the end with a big rise and lump sum though.

PCPhoto

OP - what did you OH agree at the time she was hired - she works at X rate !!

These others who do not earn a full wage earn Y rate - it was upto your OH to negotiate a higher rate when it was possible, management have now determined that its not possible to increase wages as its not financially viable.

your OH's options in my opinion are ....

1. go on strike/quit - hold your moral ground and try find employment elsewhere, she wants the same pay as someone doing the same job and in order to show management she is serious she has to make sacrafices.

2. learn the lesson - when contracts are negotiated you try to get the best deal possible, if you find someone with a better deal doing the same job you can only blame yourself for not negotiating properly.

3. find another job elsewhere and leave.

4. offer to go part-time for the increased hourly rate (see if management are willing to offer one of the part-timers a lesser rate but increased hours in exchange for your OH swapping the other way)

5. complain online saying its not fair and get asked if your OH would be willing to take a pay cut if she found the other girls were on less than her !!


So....... would your OH be willing to take a pay cut if the other girls were on a lesser rate ?

your OH has a guaranteed income at the moment - do you really want to risk loosing her job over a couple of cent an hour ??

bizzo

PCPhoto wrote: »

OP - what did you OH agree at the time she was hired - she works at X rate !!

These others who do not earn a full wage earn Y rate - it was upto your OH to negotiate a higher rate when it was possible, management have now determined that its not possible to increase wages as its not financially viable.

your OH's options in my opinion are ....

1. go on strike/quit - hold your moral ground and try find employment elsewhere, she wants the same pay as someone doing the same job and in order to show management she is serious she has to make sacrafices.

2. learn the lesson - when contracts are negotiated you try to get the best deal possible, if you find someone with a better deal doing the same job you can only blame yourself for not negotiating properly.

3. find another job elsewhere and leave.

4. offer to go part-time for the increased hourly rate (see if management are willing to offer one of the part-timers a lesser rate but increased hours in exchange for your OH swapping the other way)

5. complain online saying its not fair and get asked if your OH would be willing to take a pay cut if she found the other girls were on less than her !!


So....... would your OH be willing to take a pay cut if the other girls were on a lesser rate ?

your OH has a guaranteed income at the moment - do you really want to risk loosing her job over a couple of cent an hour ??

Risk losing her job? in what way could she lose her job... by pointing out that her rate of pay is less than her co workers????

I would hardly say a couple of cents. 1.50 per hour for the past 3months(when they noticed the matter) is roughly 700 euro. 700 euro is alot to us and nothing i would dismiss as " a couple of cents"

odds_on

I worked as a part-timer and was paid a higher hourly rate because:
a) I only had 15 hours (as far as my memory goes) weekly
b) was not permanently employed
c) could be asked to leave at any time
Thus the rate reflect the low hours and the insecurity of the job.

Senna

Its up to your OH to negotiate a good wage, as long as its above minimum wage and isn't discriminating against someone, then an employer can pay who-ever what-ever they like. Has your OH ever asked for a raise?

In my place of work out of about 50 staff, there are probably about 20 different wage amounts for staff doing a similar job. The older staff need to approach the manager to get a pay increase as wages wont go up unless minimum wage/JLC pushes them up. A number of older staff would only have gotten wage increases in this way as they haven't/wont approach the manager to ask for a raise.

bizzo

Yes she has gotten a raise roughly 2years ago and when they went about one a few months back they were told no raises were being given. Whats the point of "equality" when its obviously not the case is what im saying is all! I know they are part time but if you stood them next to each other and each of them listed off their duties, one of them would have stopped talking a lot quicker! I just feel that because my OH is a quiet person they think its ok to pay her alot less than what others are getting.