Would you prefer to speak Irish?

Wibbs

Precious flower wrote: »

I think it's a pity we can't speak our own language.

This pretty much sums up the argument for me. "its a pity we can't speak our own language'. A contradiction in terms if ever one needed an example. If we can't speak it(and the majority can't) how is it our language anymore?

For me it is a pity the opportunity was lost to better promote it. IMHO it was lost when what had become a small cultural expression within the wider Irish culture was imposed on that wider culture with a side order of cultural guilt attached. Hence people claiming to support it, even speak it can have barely a cupla focal. It didn't have a cultural resonance, or enough of one for most outside the native speaking areas. For many that did, it was used as a political tool or cultural/social oneupmanship.

If they'd supported it in the areas where it was naturally strong and promoted voluntary schemes for those from the wider culture who wished to learn it I'm pretty sure it would have been better off for the language. Certainly the poor children of Peig, reading about some maudlin harridan who lost 20 kids in childbirth wouldn't have hated or dismissed the language to the degree they did and do.

Lord TSC

The truth is that if Irish was the country's first language in reality, we wouldn't have to keep having these topics where it is argued whether it is or not. If it was the first language, boards.ie would be in Irish with only an English section up the top of AH. If it was the first and main language, people wouldn't have to come into topics like this shouting about how it is, and people who don't think so are not "Irish" enough....

DyldeBrill

Wibbs wrote: »

This pretty much sums up the argument for me. "its a pity we can't speak our own language'. A contradiction in terms if ever one needed an example. If we can't speak it(and the majority can't) how is it our language anymore?

For me it is a pity the opportunity was lost to better promote it. IMHO it was lost when what had become a small cultural expression within the wider Irish culture was imposed on that wider culture with a side order of cultural guilt attached. Hence people claiming to support it, even speak it can have barely a cupla focal. It didn't have a cultural resonance, or enough of one for most outside the native speaking areas. For many that did, it was used as a political tool or cultural/social oneupmanship.

If they'd supported it in the areas where it was naturally strong and promoted voluntary schemes for those from the wider culture who wished to learn it I'm pretty sure it would have been better off for the language. Certainly the poor children of Peig, reading about some maudlin harridan who lost 20 kids in childbirth wouldn't have hated or dismissed the language to the degree they did and do.

What people fail to realise is that the Irish language is actually growing in this country and its not in decline.The problem with the language is that there is not enough funding going into it.The British government put more money into the Irish language than the government we have here.....which is an absolute disgrace! As well as that, it is not taught properly in schools.It bores the ****e out of students, and in the end, they don't get a proper grasp of the language.

Recently a few schemes have been put together which seemed to have worked, especially in Dublin with acting workshops been made available to kids through Irish.More of this needs to happen to people can be taught it in a fun way.

Peig is dying out, new books have come into play like Dúnmharú ar an Dairt, which is a great book! Lets see what happens.

DyldeBrill

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

The truth is that if Irish was the country's first language in reality, we wouldn't have to keep having these topics where it is argued whether it is or not. If it was the first language, boards.ie would be in Irish with only an English section up the top of AH. If it was the first and main language, people wouldn't have to come into topics like this shouting about how it is, and people who don't think so are not "Irish" enough....

The Irish language is not our 1st language that's true, but that's not the point of discussion to this thread. "Would you prefer to speak Irish?" that is the question, where the majority have answered that they would prefer to speak Irish.

Sleepy

I've no interest in having Irish at all.

Would love to have been able to spend the 14 years of my education focusing on French, German, Spanish, Portuguese or any of the major EU languages. TBH, I'd have preferred Latin to Irish. Sure, they're both dead languages but whilst Latin gave birth to quite a few other languages and could be useful in the learning of those, the attempt at re-introducing Irish has just given us self-congratulatory, often intolerably smug sub-set of the middle-class who consider it their right to force their interest on schoolchildren instead of providing them with an education.

Wibbs

DyldeBrill wrote: »

What people fail to realise is that the Irish language is actually growing in this country and its not in decline.

It's growing from a major slump in popularity in the 60/70's. That's good, but it remains to be seen how far that growth will go in everyday life outside of education.

The problem with the language is that there is not enough funding going into it.

You are joking right?

The British government put more money into the Irish language than the government we have here.....which is an absolute disgrace!

Eh wut? I would love to see that incredible claim backed up with equally incredible evidence. Links or GTFO as they used to say a lot more hereabouts in the past. The only links I can find of UK government investment into the Irish language is this one where 20 million sterling(around 24 million Euros) was made available. TG4 alone according to this report got 36 million Euro annually. Then add in the investment in education, translation, the various Gaelthacht areas etc since the foundation of this state of ours. So faced with those billions over time and your claim looks... well pretty unbelievable if not a little daft.

As well as that, it is not taught properly in schools.It bores the ****e out of students, and in the end, they don't get a proper grasp of the language.

Recently a few schemes have been put together which seemed to have worked, especially in Dublin with acting workshops been made available to kids through Irish.More of this needs to happen to people can be taught it in a fun way.

Peig is dying out, new books have come into play like Dúnmharú ar an Dairt, which is a great book! Lets see what happens.

Well one would hope given we've had several generations since the foundation of the state be educated in the language yet the numbers speaking it now are significantly lower than when they started.

DyldeBrill wrote: »

The Irish language is not our 1st language that's true, but that's not the point of discussion to this thread. "Would you prefer to speak Irish?" that is the question, where the majority have answered that they would prefer to speak Irish.

Yet so few do? Does not compute. Back to the imposition of the language and the cultural guilt that has people saying they'd love to speak it, yet few make much of attempt to do so.

hondasam

Paparazzo wrote: »

Either you're lazy, or you dont really believe what you wrote. Because there's nothing stopping you learning Irish.

I'm not lazy, I never said there was anything stopping me learning it.
While I obviously learnt Irish in school I cannot speak it fluently.

DyldeBrill

Sleepy wrote: »

I've no interest in having Irish at all.

Would love to have been able to spend the 14 years of my education focusing on French, German, Spanish, Portuguese or any of the major EU languages. TBH, I'd have preferred Latin to Irish. Sure, they're both dead languages but whilst Latin gave birth to quite a few other languages and could be useful in the learning of those, the attempt at re-introducing Irish has just given us self-congratulatory, often intolerably smug sub-set of the middle-class who consider it their right to force their interest on schoolchildren instead of providing them with an education.

That's fair enough...YOU have no interest in learning the language but that does not mean that its a dead language.As I've pointed out already, the language is growing.Having Irish can prove very helpful, especially when coming to terms with some of our history.It is not explained in English but can be easily explained in Irish.Examples of this can be given.

Yes French, German etc are all major languages but if you really wanted to learn those languages then you would have done it out of your own interest.You would be speaking them now, so please don't give me that.You have highlighted your ignorance, fair enough if you do not wish to learn the language, but do not call it a dead language when it's obviously not!

deise go deo

English is my first language, but I speak Irish fairly well.

Why is there no Bilingual option?

Kirby

DyldeBrill wrote: »

That's fair enough...YOU have no interest in learning the language but that does not mean that its a dead language.As I've pointed out already, the language is growing.

The language is not growing. You might wish it was, but it isn't. It's a dying language. We don't export it to other countries. Nobody outside Ireland speaks it and unlike alot of other european countries with their own language.......the vast majority of the population can't even speak it at a good enough level to hold a conversation. To state otherwise is just refusing to see reality.

Personally I think it's a shame but thats the reality of the situation.

Wibbs

Or English as a first language, no desire to learn Irish but glad others do so long as it doesn't become a money pit to support that. OK might not fit on the page...

Paparazzo

hondasam wrote: »

I'm not lazy, I never said there was anything stopping me learning it.
While I obviously learnt Irish in school I cannot speak it fluently.

Why aren't you out learning it then? You said:

hondasam wrote: »

Yes I would love to be able to speak Irish.

Stark

DyldeBrill wrote: »

The problem with the language is that there is not enough funding going into it.

There are 19 state bodies dedicated to keeping this "vibrant living language" on life support.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0118/breaking71.html

SafeSurfer

The amount of money the state has invested in trying to preserve the Irish language is huge.
Not just the 36 million for TG4 but also for Radio na Gaeltachta. Add to this the costs of state quangos that deal with preserving Gaeltacht areas like Udarus and the language

Forbairt Naíonraí Teoranta

Foras grant 2011: €1,015,217.

Comhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge Foras grant 2011: €650,409 Gaelscoileanna Teo

Foras grant 2011: €461,184

Conradh na Gaeilge Foras grant 2011: €541,911 .

Not to mention the grants and special subsidies for Gaeltacht areas. Is double dole still available?

The 72,000 people who speak the language on a daily basis must be the most highly subsidised group in the state.

Irish dancing is part of our culture. If I want to learn it I take lessons in it at my own expense and in my own time. The surest way to preserve the language long term would be to make learning it a source of pride rather than a chore.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0119/1224310448583.html

bigdaddyliamo

I have a strong grasp of Irish as I, like many others, had all my schooling through the language. Once I got over my teenage self and realized not everything I had done up to that point was crap I developed a greater appreciation of Irish as a beautiful soulful living entity. It would be great if everybody could speak it, but they can't. It would be great if everybody could learn it, but they can't be bothered.So what do we do?
My tuppence would suggest we scrap all written exams in Irish and replace them with purely spoken Irish exams for the next 20/30 years so as to get the population to a comfortable level of ability in the spoken word and this,may, start to remove the stigma of Irish that so many people seem to still have as an impediment.

Stark

Kirby wrote: »

The language is not growing. You might wish it was, but it isn't. It's a dying language. We don't export it to other countries. Nobody outside Ireland speaks it and unlike alot of other european countries with their own language.......the vast majority of the population can't even speak it at a good enough level to hold a conversation. To state otherwise is just refusing to see reality.

My experience is even in the Gaeltacht areas they barely speak it. Have been on holidays with a friend of ours who's a fluent Irish speaker who tried using it everywhere she went there only to get blank looks from people in shops and pubs who said they only spoke English. I think it's a beautiful language and I'd like to speak it regularly but it's simply not in active usage.

DyldeBrill

It's growing from a major slump in popularity in the 60/70's. That's good, but it remains to be seen how far that growth will go in everyday life outside of education.

What did you think I was talking about....Irish within the school system?Nope ! It's growing within and outside the school system, and not only in the Gaeltacht regions.Projects like Béal na nGael have been put forth encouraging people to speak "an cúpla focal" .

You are joking right?

no...you are joking? How can you say that there is enough funding going into the Irish language...please do tell.The fact that Foinse has to close down, a major Irish Newspaper, due to lack of investment says something surely? The same story with Lá Nua.

The link that you send me there was a brief alt from the Irish Times...doesn't really say much.We studied it in a lecture last year in NUIG.I have just asked my lecturer to send on the information and links to me, so I will post that here the minute I get them and I can pm them to you also.I apologise for not having them on me right now, but will surprise you!.

The language is not growing. You might wish it was, but it isn't. It's a dying language. We don't export it to other countries. Nobody outside Ireland speaks it and unlike alot of other european countries with their own language.......the vast majority of the population can't even speak it at a good enough level to hold a conversation. To state otherwise is just refusing to see reality.

Personally I think it's a shame but thats the reality of the situation.

You do not know what your talking about.Some of the people have given good arguments and have tried to back up their points but please show me your evidence.

Nobody outside Ireland speaks it

Really? this is why there has been new Gaeltachts set up in Germany, Australia and Canada? People with no Irish roots attend because they want to learn the language, so your wrong in saying nobody outside Ireland speaks it.I can't help but get annoyed when seeing a comment like this, because you are making it clear to all that you have no idea what your talking about.Frustrating to say the least

DyldeBrill

bigdaddyliamo wrote: »

I have a strong grasp of Irish as I, like many others, had all my schooling through the language. Once I got over my teenage self and realized not everything I had done up to that point was crap I developed a greater appreciation of Irish as a beautiful soulful living entity. It would be great if everybody could speak it, but they can't. It would be great if everybody could learn it, but they can't be bothered.So what do we do?
My tuppence would suggest we scrap all written exams in Irish and replace them with purely spoken Irish exams for the next 20/30 years so as to get the population to a comfortable level of ability in the spoken word and this,may, start to remove the stigma of Irish that so many people seem to still have as an impediment.

no truer word said!

SafeSurfer

DyldeBrill wrote: »

.
no...you are joking? How can you say that there is enough funding going into the Irish language...please do tell.The fact that Foinse has to close down, a major Irish Newspaper, due to lack of investment says something surely? The same story with Lá Nua.

Maybe they are closing down not because of lack of funding but because not enough people want to read Irish language papers.

DyldeBrill

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Maybe they are closing down not because of lack of funding but because not enough people want to read Irish language papers.

that is also a factor of course! but its the lack of money that they were originally given that hindered their chances, especially their funds for advertisement.Luckily we can still get it!

Jimmy Iovine

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Peig is dying out, new books have come into play like Dúnmharú ar an Dairt, which is a great book! Lets see what happens.

Dúnmharú is a fantastic book. Very well written and the Irish is easy enough to understand but at the same time you'll learn something from it.

Nothingbetter2d

we do business in english, we subscribe to english speaking channels, and watch english soccer, we have many family members in other english speaking countries, most of our tourists speak english to some level,

Irish is a dead language imo... Just like Latin, sure some people like to speak it but it costs alot of money to translate everything into irihs just so about 10% of the population that speak irish are happy... that same money could be better spent on more worthwhile things such as better education services for people with learning difficulties.

Kirby

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Really? this is why there has been new Gaeltachts set up in Germany, Australia and Canada? People with no Irish roots attend because they want to learn the language, so your wrong in saying nobody outside Ireland speaks it.I can't help but get annoyed when seeing a comment like this, because you are making it clear to all that you have no idea what your talking about.Frustrating to say the least

A few thousand people who use Irish as their primary language in a world of over six billion people is clearly the sign of a language in decline. You cite how Gaeltachts in other countries as proof the language is growing. We don't even speak it in our own country, never mind in places like Germany.

You clearly love the Irish language. More power to you. I think it's a shame that nobody speaks it. But your emotional attatchment to the subject is blinding you to the obvious.

bigdaddyliamo

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Maybe they are closing down not because of lack of funding but because not enough people want to read Irish language papers.

This, fundamentally, is this problem. A) not Enough funding and, b) Not enough people want to can read Irish language papers

Like all things in life the answer is not straight forward.[Grow Irish organically and it will flourish. We know the ram method has not, does not and will not ever work.].

DyldeBrill

Kirby wrote: »

A few thousand people who use Irish as their primary language in a world of over six billion people is clearly the sign of a language in decline. You cite how Gaeltachts in other countries as proof the language is growing. We don't even speak it in our own country, never mind in places like Germany.

You clearly love the Irish language. More power to you. I think it's a shame that nobody speaks it. But your emotional attatchment to the subject is blinding you to the obvious.

I don't think there's any point in going any further with my points.Yes you are right I do love the Irish language, I am 21 years old who was not brought up speaking Irish, luckily that changed when I travelled around a bit.All I'm defending is that the language is not dead...I have seen both sides to this abroad and here in Ireland, so you can surely understand where my frustration comes from.

nobody speaks it

.....I give up!

Kirby

I was using the term "nobody" in a general sense. You seem to be using it as a stick to beat me with so I will rephrase. Very, very, very, very few people speak it as their primary language. Happy?

Paz-CCFC

Kirby wrote: »

The language is not growing. You might wish it was, but it isn't. It's a dying language. We don't export it to other countries. Nobody outside Ireland speaks it and unlike alot of other european countries with their own language.......the vast majority of the population can't even speak it at a good enough level to hold a conversation. To state otherwise is just refusing to see reality.

Personally I think it's a shame but thats the reality of the situation.

The amount of Irish speakers has grown census-on-census since 1946. Perhaps not all the speakers are fluent, but they possess some level of Irish, which shows that the language is growing somewhat. If it were dying, then this amount would be falling. If it were dead, then this amount would be zero.

Kirby wrote: »

A few thousand people who use Irish as their primary language in a world of over six billion people is clearly the sign of a language in decline.

What's the sign of a growing language, so?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

The amount of Irish speakers has grown census-on-census since 1946. Perhaps not all the speakers are fluent, but they possess some level of Irish, which shows that the language is growing somewhat. If it were dying, then this amount would be falling. If it were dead, then this amount would be zero.

The amount of people who THINK they can sepak Irish has grown. As has the amount of catholics.

DyldeBrill

Kirby wrote: »

I was using the term "nobody" in a general sense. You seem to be using it as a stick to beat me with so I will rephrase. Very, very, very, very few people speak it as their primary language. Happy?

I'm not using it as a stick to beat you, but surely you must understand where I'm coming from after hearing your views.We'll agree to disagree as this is obviously going no where

Paz-CCFC

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The amount of people who THINK they can sepak Irish has grown. As has the amount of catholics.

Well, yes, the nature of the census information is hugely at the discretion of whomever fills it out. Do you have any figures to suggest that those who claim, on the cesnsus, that they have some ability to speak/understand Irish actually don't?

DyldeBrill

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The amount of people who THINK they can sepak Irish has grown. As has the amount of catholics.

Elaborate please.What do mean by Think?

Kirby

I would be wary of using census data to back up any point. For example, hundreds of thousands of people accross the world state they belong to the "Jedi religion" on their nations census. Perspective please.

I also find it interesting why you point out a supposed increase in irish speaking numbers since 1946 but fail to notice the dramatic decrease over the last several hundred years since we were colonized. Is that not more significant? Does the fact that our national broadcaster is called radio telefis eireann and yet broadcasts in english so that the nation can enjoy it?

Paz-CCFC

Kirby wrote: »

I would be wary of using census data to back up any point. For example, hundreds of thousands of people accross the world state they belong to the "Jedi religion" on their nations census. Perspective please.

The Irish language is a world away from the Jedi religion. The latter was popularly done as a protest vote (though some would actually consider themselves genuine followers of this religion). I doubt many non-Irish speakers would use the language as a protest vote - if anything, I think more people who might actually have some ability to speak Irish might say they don't, due to their dislike of the language following how they were taught it.

I also find it interesting why you point out a supposed increase in irish speaking numbers since 1946 but fail to notice the dramatic decrease over the last several hundred years since we were colonized. Is that not more significant? Does the fact that our national broadcaster is called radio telefis eireann and yet broadcasts in english so that the nation can enjoy it?

I'm not disputing that the language declined dramatically in the fashion you state. However, in more recent times, it has undergone a re-birth and we've seen it regrowing.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

Well, yes, the nature of the census information is hugely at the discretion of whomever fills it out. Do you have any figures to suggest that those who claim, on the cesnsus, that they have some ability to speak/understand Irish actually don't?

DyldeBrill wrote: »

Elaborate please.What do mean by Think?

Personal experience. I know lods of people who "think" they can sepak Irish (why are the filling out the English section of the census them.... )

Think is probably the wrong word. Exaggerate would be far more likely. In 2006, the figure was 42.6% said they could speak Irish. And 53% of househlolds had at least one Irish speaker. In the Gaeltacht areas, yes, no probllem; but nationwide, that doesn't add up.
(Figures are from 2006, couldn't find 2011)
People think "a cupla focal" translates in to "full fluency".
http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2007pressreleases/2006censusofpopulation-volume9-irishlanguage/

Paz-CCFC

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Personal experience. I know lods of people who "think" they can sepak Irish (why are the filling out the English section of the census them.... )

To be fair, anecdotal evidence isn't exactly the most persuasive. I know loads of people who think that they can't speak Irish, yet I've had hour-long conversations with them.

Think is probably the wrong word. Exaggerate would be far more likely. In 2006, the figure was 42.6% said they could speak Irish. And 53% of househlolds had at least one Irish speaker. In the Gaeltacht areas, yes, no probllem; but nationwide, that doesn't add up.
(Figures are from 2006, couldn't find 2011)
People think "a cupla focal" translates in to "full fluency".
http://www.cso.ie/en/newsandevents/pressreleases/2007pressreleases/2006censusofpopulation-volume9-irishlanguage/

I believe that the question asked on the census is if people can speak some level of Irish, no? And it's then broken down into sub-categories, based on how often you use it?

Even so, let's assume that of the 1.1 million increase of people that claim to speak Irish between 1946 and 2006 are all people who can only string a few sentences together/have a laten interest in the language. Does that not prove some growth in the language? Over an extra million people would have made an attempt to learn some Irish and/or have a bit of interest in the language.

SafeSurfer

It would be interesting to find out how many people request and fill in the Irish language version of the census form.

Found figures for 2002 and 2006.

In short, the total number of Private households (also including individuals in private homes and communal homes) using the Irish form rose from 5,022 in 2002 to 6,672 in 2006.

http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/translation/topic84357.html

Guess Irish speakers have large families.

Paparazzo

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It would be interesting to find out how many people request and fill in the Irish language version of the census form.

They only fill it out in irish if they get a government grant to.

Iwasfrozen

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It would be interesting to find out how many people request and fill in the Irish language version of the census form.

Found figures for 2002 and 2006.

In short, the total number of Private households (also including individuals in private homes and communal homes) using the Irish form rose from 5,022 in 2002 to 6,672 in 2006.

http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/translation/topic84357.html

Guess Irish speakers have large families.

Out of how many in total?

Paz-CCFC

SafeSurfer wrote: »

It would be interesting to find out how many people request and fill in the Irish language version of the census form.

Found figures for 2002 and 2006.

In short, the total number of Private households (also including individuals in private homes and communal homes) using the Irish form rose from 5,022 in 2002 to 6,672 in 2006.

http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/translation/topic84357.html

Guess Irish speakers have large families.

And what exactly does that prove? Just because someone didn't fill out the Irish form doesn't mean they don't have Irish. Perhaps it's their second language, and they felt more comfortable filling out the English version. Or perhaps, while they can speak the language fine, their literacy isn't of a high enough level.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

To be fair, anecdotal evidence isn't exactly the most persuasive. I know loads of people who think that they can't speak Irish, yet I've had hour-long conversations with them.



I believe that the question asked on the census is if people can speak some level of Irish, no? And it's then broken down into sub-categories, based on how often you use it?

Even so, let's assume that of the 1.1 million increase of people that claim to speak Irish between 1946 and 2006 are all people who can only string a few sentences together/have a laten interest in the language. Does that not prove some growth in the language? Over an extra million people would have made an attempt to learn some Irish and/or have a bit of interest in the language.

Therein lies the problem: the census does not differentiate between basic and fluent, so you can hardly say that the number has grown if the actually amount of Irish spoken is minimal. Anecdotal eveidence is all you're going to get because at the end of the day that's all that exists.

I mean, I speak "some level" of Irish, but then I also speak some livel of French, Italian, German, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish (varying degrees of fluency, all better than Irish).

I am not sayign that the langauge is not growing, but you need to take into account other factos such a rise of poopulation, quality of Irish spoken and how many of these 1.1 million "made an attempt" because they were forced to in school before you say "interest is growing".

Paparazzo

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

And what exactly does that prove? Just because someone didn't fill out the Irish form doesn't mean they don't have Irish. Perhaps it's their second language, and they felt more comfortable filling out the English version. Or perhaps, while they can speak the language fine, their literacy isn't of a high enough level.

Good way of finding out how many people truely speak irish every day though.

SafeSurfer

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Out of how many in total?

Out of 1,624,134 total dwellings. Irish language = 0.4%.


Audio and large print versions of the form were also available as was assistance from enumerators, so literacy issues should not be a major factor.

deise go deo

Kirby wrote: »

A few thousand people who use Irish as their primary language in a world of over six billion people is clearly the sign of a language in decline.

Do you know what the word decline means? What you have referenced is the proportion of Irish speakers to non Irish speakers in the world, that has nothing to do with decline or growth, nor much else for that matter.

deise go deo

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

And what exactly does that prove? Just because someone didn't fill out the Irish form doesn't mean they don't have Irish. Perhaps it's their second language, and they felt more comfortable filling out the English version. Or perhaps, while they can speak the language fine, their literacy isn't of a high enough level.

Or perhaps they just got the English version in the post and dident feel like going looking for the Irish version.

briany

I think after going through the whole 13 years of schooling from age 5-18, I'd say I know maybe two dozen words of Irish at this point. I knew a lot more around the time of my Irish leaving paper, upon the finishing of which I forgot nearly all of what I knew. I couldn't wait to forget about it!

Irish lessons had been the bane of my academic career from being a puzzled five year old wondering what this gobbledygook was that they were putting on front of me when I just getting on top of the whole English thing and thinking there was something wrong with me when I couldn't quite get it, to (cult like) chanting the conjugation of verbs to finding the sentence that resembled the wording of the question in reading comprehension tests, no actual comprehension involved and for every one who did well in the language there was maybe five who hated it or just wished that they could be doing something else. There's people who hate maths as well but simple mathematics, like the kind you learn in primary school, is very useful and we use it every day. Somebody mentioned that you should have Irish in gaelteacht areas in order to avoid feeling like a stranger in your own land, well I say that if it comes down to that, people for the most part will simply start avoiding gaelteacht areas.

The Irish language is a beautiful language though and I support the speaking of it if only because I like things that keep the human cultural stew as diverse and interesting as possible but I resent the fact that I had to learn it at a time when I was too young to question why, I hate the way it was taught to me and others and, if it's still like that, then here's to another generation of school goers who'll loathe their constitutionally native tongue and another generation of politicians who insist on flushing money down the toilet based on a nationalistic and archaic notion.

Wibbs

DyldeBrill wrote: »

What did you think I was talking about....Irish within the school system?Nope ! It's growing within and outside the school system, and not only in the Gaeltacht regions.Projects like Béal na nGael have been put forth encouraging people to speak "an cúpla focal" .

The major growth has been in Gaelscoils. Though major may need some defining. 100 odd schools out of 4000 odd overall, while a start is hardly a cultural brush fire.

no...you are joking?

Oh I'm smiling alright, but I'm not the source of amusement.

How can you say that there is enough funding going into the Irish language...please do tell.

Really. You're actually serious? Can you begin to count up the literal billions ploughed into the language since the foundation of the state. The compulsory teaching from primary through to the LC. The requirements for various universities, civil service jobs, the law etc. Requirements that were even higher in the past and still the language declined.

The fact that Foinse has to close down, a major Irish Newspaper, due to lack of investment says something surely? The same story with Lá Nua.

Newspapers and other periodicals cease trading for pretty much only one reason. Lack of circulation figures/readership. This makes advertisers go feck that and funding dries up. No successful newspapers has ever gone to the wall unless a government agency bans it or they're crippled by legal fees. Those two papers failed because they didn't have enough readers. Their niche market was too tiny to sustain them, even though both were subsidised by an outside agency.

The link that you send me there was a brief alt from the Irish Times...doesn't really say much.

How many references do you want on how much TG4 is subsidised? It says quite a bit, especially in the face of the claim that the UK government has funded the Irish language more than our own.

We studied it in a lecture last year in NUIG.I have just asked my lecturer to send on the information and links to me, so I will post that here the minute I get them and I can pm them to you also.I apologise for not having them on me right now, but will surprise you!.

It'll more than surprise me, my monocle will fly across the room.

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

The amount of Irish speakers has grown census-on-census since 1946. Perhaps not all the speakers are fluent, but they possess some level of Irish, which shows that the language is growing somewhat. If it were dying, then this amount would be falling. If it were dead, then this amount would be zero.

Perhaps not all the speakers are fluent P? If they were even close to fluent I doubt this debate would be happening.

Son Of A Vidic

It would be nice if this nation actually used its native tongue, instead of just mere tokenism. So considering this, I could careless since it bears no relevance to my daily life. The Welsh on the other hand, well they're actually doing it right.

KeithAFC

Does anyone know how much money is wasted on the Irish language? It seems a lot people aren't happy with it and I wonder if it is because a lot of money is spent on it?

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KeithAFC wrote: »

It seems a lot people aren't happy with it and I wonder if it is because a lot of money is spent on it?

I suspect that's a major source of ire, alright.

It's really annoying when people come into After Hours and frankly embellish figures of how many people actually speak Irish fluently/natively. Lying to yourselves and to everyone else isn't gonna make people join your crusade, folks.

enfant terrible

Pacifist Pigeon wrote: »

No, English is the global lingua franca. I can speak to over a billion people through the medium of English, while only around 75,000 people through the medium of Irish. If Ireland had its own empire and took over a quarter of the globe and spread the Irish language, then maybe I might consider using Irish. I put my priorities on numbers not on some nationalist fantasy. I say this and I went through 14 years of education as Gaeilge (because my parents made me) so I can still speak it. Do I regret it? Yes, my English syntax is all fecked up because of it.

That's interesting how did it affect your English syntax?