The Bishops invite to the Pope.Being Catholic in Fine Gael.What's the story.??

goose2005

Manach wrote: »

Personally I reckon people tend to underrate that which they do not understand. In my case, that's Jedward. In Stalin's case, that was the Church - asking "How Many Divisions does the Pope of Rome Have?". What the Vatican does have is soft power which has lasted longer than the USSR.

But aren't you falsely equating the Holy See with the Catholic Church? And equating atheism with Communism? And exactly what form does this 'soft power' take?

CDfm

raymon wrote: »

Thanks CdFm . That explains it.

Great , maybe you can explain it to me.;)

It is a big deal for Fine Gael and a bigger deal still if their supporters feel they are being trashed by Labour.

I personally believe that religion and politics should not mix at all .

The Vatican deserves an embassy no more than Lesotho , Andorra, Monaco, Liechtenstein etc

Separate issue to FG in middle Ireland.

Though, it was accompanied by a diplomatic spat.

The Embassy thing is not what I want to understand. What did the ambassador do all day.

I really don't know if the ambassador to the Vatican had any real role at all other than a prestige issue.

That should have been the question there.

Vatican embassy may reopen within two years, says Creighton

By Juno McEnroe, Political Reporter
Saturday, February 04, 2012
IRELAND will reopen its embassy to the Vatican "within the next year or two if economic conditions allow", European Affairs Minister Lucinda Creighton has predicted.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/news/vatican-embassy-may-reopen-within-two-years-says-creighton-182614.html#ixzz1m5VggCqT

CDfm

goose2005 wrote: »

But aren't you falsely equating the Holy See with the Catholic Church? And equating atheism with Communism? And exactly what form does this 'soft power' take?

What I was looking at was is Mayo and Castlebar are unhappy.

The constituencies did not get a result during the presidential election.

Government under pressure to re-open Vatican Embassy ahead of Eucharistic Congress

Fine Gael backbenchers fear Pope will shun Dublin visit in protest

By PATRICK COUNIHAN,
IrishCentral Staff Writer


Published Monday, January 23, 2012, 7:28 AM
Updated Monday, January 23, 2012, 11:34 AM

The Irish government is under pressure to abandon plans to close its embassy at the Vatican – from within Prime Minister Enda Kenny’s own Fine Gael party.
Backbenchers John O’Mahony, the former Mayo football manager, and Tom Hayes have both called on Foreign Affairs Minister Eamon Gilmore to reverse the decision.
The government claimed cutbacks were behind the announcement late last year that the embassy at the Vatican would close.
At the time, relations between Church and State were at an all-time low after Kenny’s criticism of the Holy See’s attitude to child abuse cases as outlined in the Cloyne Report.

Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Government-under-pressure-to-re-open-Vatican-Embassy-ahead-of-Eucharistic-Congress-137878478.html#ixzz1m5XyBht8

Did the constituencies want a Papal Visit ?

Nodin

CDfm wrote: »

@Godge


I am not arguing a point here...................

Don't you think it a little bit strange that in the links that I posted and especially the photo's the lenghts these politicians are going to to be perceived as devout catholic by their supporters.

Lots of them seem to be boosting their catholic credentials.

Its mad that all these religious references are surfacing.

Why is it happening ?

The two biggest partners seem to be eyeing up for an election. Their PR is how they connect with voters.

Maybe Labour needs some fresh protest campaign's , how 'bout

"Keep your Sacrament from our President" or "Keep your Rosary away from our Embassy"

The above look like very pointed points to me.

Manach

goose2005 wrote: »

But aren't you falsely equating the Holy See with the Catholic Church? And equating atheism with Communism? And exactly what form does this 'soft power' take?

1 - So it seems are most people on this thread.
2 - That is a common historical phase and atheism was not mentioned, but if you wish to argue that atheism is associated with the worst dicatorship of the 20thC, go right ahead.
3 - See the remainder of the original quoted post.

I presume you are going to offer an opinion or mount an argument yourself?

CDfm

Nodin wrote: »

The above look like very pointed points to me.

It isn't intended to be.

Its just something I've observed. The coalition has 110/166 Dail Seats by the two largest parties.

Supporter disquiet is an issue for FG backbenchers and an election in the next four years is inevitable. Local elections in 2014 -2 years away.

So local developments are big news.

CDfm

Manach wrote: »

1 - So it seems are most people on this thread.
2 - That is a common historical phase and atheism was not mentioned, but if you wish to argue that atheism is associated with the worst dicatorship of the 20thC, go right ahead.
3 - See the remainder of the original quoted post.

I presume you are going to offer an opinion or mount an argument yourself?

That's a bit off the other direction to what I was thinking.

I was thinking of how responsive FG is to its supporters and constituencies at a localized level .

Solair

All I'm saying is that glorious state visits by anyone are something we cannot really afford.

The Queen of England's visit was actually historic and important in terms of bringing closure to some very deep wounds. I think her bowing to the graves at the Garden of Remembrance was incredibly significant and underlines that there is a new sense of understanding between the UK and Republic of Ireland.

That being said, it was astronomically expensive!

Obama's visit while it's very important as the US is our largest source of foreign direct investment, it was still basically a PR stunt to ensure the Irish-American swing-vote was on side.

It was also astronomically expensive.

I'm just not sure what the Pope visiting would achieve though. He's not exactly going to bring us any fantastic PR opportunities, he's highly unlikely to do anything significant marking a new era that would see the whole abuse scandal dealt with properly, and he's really just going to be providing a day out for those who are into that sort of thing.

The cost would be again, absolutely astronomical.

I would personally rather see the money spent on something useful rather than state visits.

As for the embassy being closed. I really don't think that the vast majority of people in Ireland give a damn. There's an embassy in Rome (now moved to the Villa that housed the old Vatican embassy). If the Pope has any urgent messages, I'm sure he can give that embassy a call.

We could do with reviewing the whole embassy network and placing resources where they are economically useful. There's a big question mark over having embassies all over Europe. We don't need half of them.

We could do with more representation in Asia and the fast growing economies of South America. We could also probably bolster our representation in the USA too, but having perhaps a more significant presence in Silicon Valley.

Perhaps more resources could go into the Permanent Representative Office in Brussels too, rather than wasting resources scattered around Europe in places we already have good relationships with!

CDfm

Solair wrote: »

Obama's visit while it's very important as the US is our largest source of foreign direct investment, it was still basically a PR stunt to ensure the Irish-American swing-vote was on side.

It was also astronomically expensive.

I'm just not sure what the Pope visiting would achieve though. He's not exactly going to bring us any fantastic PR opportunities, he's highly unlikely to do anything significant marking a new era that would see the whole abuse scandal dealt with properly, and he's really just going to be providing a day out for those who are into that sort of thing.



As for the embassy being closed. I really don't think that the vast majority of people in Ireland give a damn. There's an embassy in Rome (now moved to the Villa that housed the old Vatican embassy). If the Pope has any urgent messages, I'm sure he can give that embassy a call.

I normally post in History where we take an event and source etc and discuss.

Often, we discuss others opinions and it does seem that the Eucharistic Congress and Embassy & Papal Visit might be important to Fine Gael supporters.

So I have highlighted two issues in your post above -what is it that FG supporters think if their TD's are highlighting it.

Any FG supporters out there or any newspaper or blog or other articles that might give us a clue.

Solair

CDfm wrote: »

I normally post in History where we take an event and source etc and discuss.

Often, we discuss others opinions and it does seem that the Eucharistic Congress and Embassy & Papal Visit might be important to Fine Gael supporters.

So I have highlighted two issues in your post above -what is it that FG supporters think if their TD's are highlighting it.

Any FG supporters out there or any newspaper or blog or other articles that might give us a clue.

It's more likely that there is a campaign of phone calls and letter writing going on targeting some FG backbenchers.

In reality, the government has a more than comfortable majority and I can't see any backbencher leaving over this!
They're also years away from a general election and there are going to be much tougher issues further down the road.

The Troica will also get nervous if they see the government backing down on relatively minor cost cutting exercises when they may yet have to cut really serious things in the next budget!!

The state will absolutely not budge on the embassy. I can't see a papal visit not being facilitated though if the Popes up for it. That being said, I don't agree with any more money being spent on pompous state visits by ANYONE!

CDfm

As the tories might say , what do they think in the shires.

David Quinn: Pope should come here but visit the North first



Friday February 10 2012

The issue of our embassy to the Holy See won't go away. Foreign Minister Eamon Gilmore now finds himself attacked as "an anti-Catholic bigot" and it has sparked a mini-rebellion among the Fine Gael backbenchers.


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/david-quinn-pope-should-come-here-but-visit-the-north-first-3015943.html

Views may get entrenched yet.

marienbad

Manach wrote: »

1- The status of the Vatican according the text, "Handbook of International Law" - it is that of a state.
2- Besides domestic considerations, we Catholics make up a fair number of adherents. To tap into that worldwide community via the Vatican might be considered a good investment.

In these difficult fiscal times for us why can not the Vatican help us out by simply making an exception in the case of Ireland and allow us to house two Ambassadors in the one building ? Problem solved .

Why are all the campaigners for re-opening the embassy not campaigning to the Vatican on this option ? Why all the pressure on Ireland ?

We are so broke people are dying on trolleys in this country , surely hundreds of years unswerving loyalty to the church has earned us this much ?

Or are we just a pawn in the Vatican's diplomatic strategy also ?

CDfm

marienbad wrote: »

In these difficult fiscal times for us why can not the Vatican help us out by simply making an exception in the case of Ireland and allow us to house two Ambassadors in the one building ? Problem solved .

Why are all the campaigners for re-opening the embassy not campaigning to the Vatican on this option ? Why all the pressure on Ireland ?

I don't think what the Vatican does or does not do is an issue.

Senator Jim Walsh of FF posts on FF website.

FG/Lab Senators Reject Motion Calling on Govt to Invite Pope Benedict to Ireland – Walsh

Posted on 09/02/12 by Jim Walsh Fianna Fáil Seanad Spokesperson on Foreign Affairs, Senator Jim Walsh, has expressed his disappointment at the decision of Fine Gael and Labour Senators to vote down a motion calling on the Government to extend an official invitation to the Vatican for Pope Benedict XVI to visit Ireland.
Senator Walsh said: “I raised today the need for the Government to take a proactive approach with the Vatican in relation to a possible State visit of the Pope to Ireland. Fianna Fáil secured support for a motion before the Seanad from Independent members and Sinn Féin to urge the Government to convey to the Holy See that it would welcome the opportunity of extending an official invitation to Pope Benedict XVI. I believe this would be extremely important for the relationship between Ireland and Vatican.



http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/7913/

marienbad

CDfm wrote: »

I don't think what the Vatican does or does not do is an issue.

Senator Jim Walsh of FF posts on FF website.

It is an issue if the catholics of Ireland make it so , post after post is telling us how important a part of the catholic family we are and how we are held in high regard by the Vatican. Now is their chance to prove it- give us a little help in our hour of need , after all we have given so much .

So lets campaign for the Vatican to allow catholic Ireland house two ambassadors in the one building instead of the one post code- is that too much to ask over what is really a piece of red tape ?

CDfm

marienbad wrote: »

It is an issue if the catholics of Ireland make it so , post after post is telling us how important a part of the catholic family we are and how we are held in high regard by the Vatican. Now is their chance to prove it- give us a little help in our hour of need , after all we have given so much .

So lets campaign for the Vatican to allow catholic Ireland house two ambassadors in the one building instead of the one post code- is that too much to ask over what is really a piece of red tape ?

I can see where you are coming from but it seems to have very little to do with being a Catholic in Fine Gael unless you are proposing FG adopt that as a policy.

My point being that FG isn't having such discussions.

Lapin

Under no circumstances should The Pope ever be welcomed to this country.

CDfm

Lapin wrote: »

Under no circumstances should The Pope ever be welcomed to this country.

Going back to December Eamonn Gilmore appeared before an Oireachtas Commitee.

Pope welcome to visit Ireland, says Gilmore

By Paul O’Brien, Political Editor
Thursday, December 15, 2011
THE Government will "respond positively" if Pope Benedict expresses an interest in visiting Ireland, Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore has said.
Last month, Mr Gilmore, as Foreign Affairs Minister, announced that the Government was closing Ireland’s embassy to the Vatican.

But he insisted that the decision was being taken on cost grounds rather than because of the fallout from the Cloyne Report into clerical child sexual abuse.

Appearing before an Oireachtas committee yesterday, Mr Gilmore reiterated that the closure of the embassy — as well as the shuttering of the embassy to Iran and the representative office in Timor Leste — had to be seen in the context of the "diminishing resources" available to his department.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfqlqlmhauid/rss2/#ixzz1m9c0ZL99

It would be very interesting to see if there are dissenting voices within Fine Gael and how this gets reported.

Min

This is what it said in the papers on Radio 1 this morning.

A review of all embassies took place within the department of foreign affairs, the report said two embassies should be shut, the embassy to the Holy See was not one of them.

It was added on, then Eamon Gilmore just lies and lies about why it was closed.
This man is incapable of telling the truth, like the wikileaks where he was telling the public one thing about the Lisbon treaty after it had been rejected, and the opposite thing to the Americans.

CDfm

Min wrote: »

This is what it said in the papers on Radio 1 this morning.

A review of all embassies took place within the department of foreign affairs, the report said two embassies should be shut, the embassy to the Holy See was not one of them.

Do you have a link for this.

The Indo was the FG paper

30 FG TD's is a big backbench revolt.

John Drennan: Gilmore failing to impose order over Vatican embassy


By JOHN DRENNAN

Sunday February 12 2012

The belated attempt by Labour leader Eamon Gilmore to impose some order on his "fractious" and "despairing" TDs and senators at a special meeting to be held next Thursday is already beginning to fall apart.

Labour Oireachtas members are growing more alarmed at what they describe as the party's "secularisation by stealth agenda" in the wake of a decision to close the Irish embassy to the Vatican.

They are also vowing to fiercely resist the leadership's "centralising tendencies".

The Tanaiste's move comes against a background of increasing discontent over Mr Gilmore's stance on the closure of the Vatican embassy, which some Labour figures believe is "going to become as messy and divisive as the rod licence dispute was in the Eighties".

In what was described by his own TDs as a "pre-emptive strike" the party chief whip issued a statement last Friday claiming that Labour's back-benchers "firmly backed" Mr Gilmore on the issue.

This stance, however, came as news to a large number of Labour TDs. One source told the Sunday Independent, on condition of anonymity, that the statement was "not true".

One source said that in Labour, "the issue has now gone past the closure of the Vatican. Instead there is an impression that the Labour Party is anti-church''

.

This belief is already having serious repercussions on the ground, where last week, at a series of church gate collections for the party, Labour TDs were "getting it in the neck not only from churchgoers but also non-churchgoers who believe the moves are vindictive and unfair".

The position of the leadership has also sparked a severe deterioration of relations between the coalition parties in the wake of virtual unanimity in Fine Gael over re-opening the Vatican embassy. At a meeting recently more than 30 TDs called for a reversal of the decision.

Outside of his own performance, the Labour leader will also have to deal with the scathing views of a growing number of TDs about the capabilities of the Labour wing of the Cabinet. One source noted: "The feeling is that key ministers are being self-indulgent, detached, aloof and inaccessible and Fine Gael is walking all over them."

A growing number of TDs also now believe that: "There has been a takeover by stealth by Gilmore, Ivana Bacik, Ruairi Quinn and Aodhan O'Riordan. They are the ones consistently grabbing the headlines -- the ordinary card-carrying member is horrified."

The under-pressure Labour leader has begun a series of meetings with the party grassroots but, speaking of a recent meeting, one high-profile figure said scathingly, "he simply didn't connect with them".

A large number of younger Labour TDs were also appalled by the "McCarthyite" nature of the language being used about Catholicism.

Speaking privately, one Labour representative contrasted the spectacle of "a Tanaiste slamming the persecution of Coptic Christians in Iran" while elements of his own party appeared to be advocating some sort of "final solution" in Ireland.

Among those who were believed to be particularly infuriated were Colm Keaveney, Ann Phelan, Robert Dowds and Senator John Kelly.

- JOHN DRENNAN

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/john-drennan/john-drennan-gilmore-failing-to-impose-order-over-vatican-embassy-3017119.html

Labour's church gate collections .:D:D:D

That's gotta hurt.

Min

CDfm wrote: »

Do you have a link for this.

Sorry, no.

Just heard it on the radio and missed which paper it was on. We will probably hear more about it later.

CDfm

Min wrote: »

Sorry, no.

Just heard it on the radio and missed which paper it was on. We will probably hear more about it later.

The thread is topical anyway and its about what was being reported. Grassroots stuff.

Labour isn't traditionally anti-catholic and in some links I posted on President Higgins he has been at mass with supporters and also gave a speach to a catholic youth organisation following his election.

You will often see coverage in local papers etc highlight an event with photo's and personal participation. That was why I posted the photo's.

Sierra Oscar

Min wrote: »

Sorry, no.

Just heard it on the radio and missed which paper it was on. We will probably hear more about it later.

It is in the Sunday Business Post. The paper has gotten its hand on a report created by the Department of Foreign Affairs in relation to the departments submission to the Comprehensive Spending Review. The report highlighted that only two embassies could be closed for cost cutting reasons, and the Vatican was not one of them.

The paper goes on to report that the Vatican embassy was included after political interference - which means Gilmore was plain outright lying when he stated that it was closed for financial reasons.

CDfm

That is news so from Fine Gael

More than 30 TDs and ministers spoke in favour of a motion by Sligo-North Leitrim TD Tony McLoughlin to review the closure and there were no dissenters.

Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/irish-pm-enda-kenny-to-review-closure-of-vatican-embassy-16112321.html#ixzz1mB4eMZzM

And from Labour

A large number of younger Labour TDs were also appalled by the "McCarthyite" nature of the language being used about Catholicism.


Among those who were believed to be particularly infuriated were Colm Keaveney, Ann Phelan, Robert Dowds and Senator John Kelly.

Now add this to the motion supporting the government in the Seanad above and it looks like the whips have been working overtime laying down the law for the leaders.

Thats not very fair on the voters ,is it ? I wonder should I tune into Democracy Now :rolleyes:

CDfm

Just taking a look at some of the points

TD apologises for vetting scheme on church 'deference'


PAUL CULLEN, Political Staff
A LABOUR backbencher has apologised for his apparent support of a proposal that senior public servants be screened to ensure they do not show “inappropriate deference” to the Catholic Church.
It was reported this week that Aodhán Ó Riordáin, TD or Dublin North Central, supported the proposal made by party activists in his constituency. He was reported to favour bringing a motion on the issue to April’s Labour Party conference.


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0204/1224311250941.html

The Irish Catholic is not something I read but here is a piece.

Alarm bells for education


Date:
19 Jan 2012


The comments of Labour's Aodhán Ó Ríordáin in this newspaper insisting that religious ethos has no place in education should sound alarm bells in the minds of anyone who values diversity and pluralism.
His comments appear to be in stark contrast to those of his party colleague and Education Minister Ruairí Quinn who has consistently said that while he would like to see fewer faith-based schools, he believes these schools still have a valuable role to play.
While some outlets of opinion for middle-Ireland like to portray Catholic concerns over Labour's policies and intentions in the religious sphere as 'reds under the bed' thinking, this kind of polemic and 'hear no evil' type of position in relation to left-wing politics belies the evidence and experience on the ground. Catholic groups are demonstrably correct in forecasting an increasing chill in the Irish politic especially from Labour quarters for a pluralistic view and approach with regard to Catholic views and concerns over a range of issues, but most especially education.
The right of parents to choose a faith-based education for their children is enshrined in Bunreacht na hÉireann. It is a right not only cherished by Catholic parents but also parents of the minority religious communities in Ireland who have often struggled to have their voice heard. The right for parents to choose a faith-based education is also something that is taken for granted in both the North of Ireland and Britain. Educational officials in Britain, for example, have acknowledged that diversity in patronage is a strength rather than something to be restricted.
It is, of course, right and proper that the State should provide alternatives for parents who do not wish to have their children educated in a faith-based environment. It is the failure of successive governments to provide for such much-needed diversity in educational provisional that has left parents with very little real choice.
Mr Ó Ríordáin's views certainly give some considerable weight to the fear articulated by many Catholics that the Labour Party -- and by extension the Government -- is hostile towards people of faith and the values and principles that are important to religious believers.
Added to that is the so called 'Clontarf document' which Catholic sources clearly see as an attempt by the Labour Party to intimidate Catholic schools.
These issues must also provide food for thought for the main coalition partner Fine Gael. There has been a consistent pattern since coalition government became the norm in Ireland for the junior partner to exert undue influence over Government policy.
Fine Gael will do well to remember that such radical policies that would exclude religion from schools will play very badly with its grassroots members and supporters. Taoiseach Enda Kenny won widespread public support for his speech on the Vatican in the wake of the Cloyne Report but there was considerable unease from Fine Gael backbenchers to the decision to close the Embassy to the Holy See.
It would be a mistake for Mr Kenny to interpret the earlier support as public backing for a wider campaign against such basic rights as the option for parents to choose a faith-based education for their children.
The Labour Party too cannot speak out of both sides of its mouth. Ruairí Quinn must be clear on whether it is he or Mr Ó Ríordáin who is articulating party policy on education.
There is little to be gained by trying to bully the Catholic Church on education as it is more likely to strengthen the resolve of those involved and encourage them to dig in their heels in the face of aggressive positioning.


http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/content/alarm-bells-education

Solair

I think we should put the secular education in schools thing to a simple referendum and insert the result into the constitution.

It's a very fundamental and important question and I don't think it's best decided by a bunch of fickle, populist back benchers and head-strong Labour ministers fighting it out.

There's a lot of confusion in Ireland between secular (state and church kept separate) and atheism (non-belief in god/deities). The two are totally different things and are conveniently confused by a lot of people.

I find in all of those articles secularism is spoken about as if it's atheism when it's anything but. A secular society allows for total pluralism by simply ensuring that the state does not have any cross-over with the church/religion and that citizens are free to practice their faith should they wish without any interference from the state.

I cannot see how in a society which claims to be an open, multicultural, modern, enlightened, republic that we even have a major debate about secular education.

Secularism in state services is what allows a pluralist society to function.

I think there's also a very negative issue with "Atheist Ireland" being the voice of secularism. The two are not the same and it's causing immense confusion. One can be a devout Catholic, a Muslim, a Jew, Hindu, or an absolute atheist and be in favour of secularism. Religious belief, and a desire for a properly secular state are not mutually exclusive positions.

CDfm

Ah Solair, this thread is not about your or mine opinions but the reported opinions of the supporters of political parties.

Any interest group or politician or newspaper -national or local or website or blog will do.

I can get the other debate any old time

CDfm

Civil Servants say Holy See Embassy not in original cost cutting report.

Vatican's embassy closure not in original draft of cuts


By Fionnan Sheahan Political Editor

Monday February 13 2012

FINE Gael TDs were angered last night by revelations that the closure of the Vatican embassy was not originally proposed in a review of spending in Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore's Department of Foreign Affairs.
The Holy See embassy controversy has developed into a major faultline between the coalition partners, with Fine Gael backbenchers opposed to the move by the Labour Party leader.
A Labour backbencher yesterday described the decision as a "pretty trivial matter", but a Fine Gael TD said the latest developments showed "weakness" by his party's ministers.
The shutting down of two other embassies was proposed in a spending report last summer which concluded the number of embassies was "modest, by comparable international standards" and "reflects the interests and needs of the State".
No mention was made of the Vatican embassy in Mr Gilmore's department's study of all spending under the Comprehensive Review of Expenditure.
Unknown
The recommendation to close the embassies in Iran and East Timor was made in this report in order to save €500,000 a year and was subsequently implemented.
The Vatican embassy only popped up in a subsequent, previously unknown, review, which was also ordered by Mr Gilmore and carried out in November, shortly before the minister announced the decision to close three embassies.
The department last night confirmed the Vatican embassy's closure was not included in the original review. But it subsequently arose because of the "need to bring about greater savings" when a second specific review on the department's representations abroad was done. It is not known how much the Vatican embassy closure will save each year.
Fine Gael TDs were privately annoyed the explanation behind the decision had changed.
"That would certainly put it in a different light. That's not the pup we were sold. I'm sure there will be a lot of fallout. We were told it was part of the rationalisation that was recommended. That will definitely throw a drop of petrol on it," a party backbencher said.
Mr Gilmore was accused of engaging in "populist rubbish for somebody struggling to make an impression" by another Fine Gael TD.
"It does show a certain weakness in the Fine Gael members at Cabinet, who let a decision be taken which would cause distress among most decent people. They need a bit more balls.
"It shows a major lack of political judgment on Gilmore's part and a lack of conviction and political antennae from the Fine Gael ministers," the deputy told the Irish Independent.


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/vaticans-embassy-closure-not-in-original-draft-of-cuts-3017472.html

And Enda Kenny never laid into the Pope in the Dail or on TV. If ever there was a mea culpa moment to say well after Enda's speech in the Dail its what I thought they wanted - this is it .






This bit on the priority of constituency clinics caught my eye

FG and Labour TDs vote with their feet by ignoring extra Dail sessions


By Fiach Kelly Political Correspondent

Friday February 03 2012

A RAFT of Government TDs -- including Tanaiste Eamon Gilmore -- are ignoring new Friday Dail sittings introduced by the Coalition as part of its trumpeted package of political reforms.
The Irish Independent has learned that a fifth of Coalition TDs, including some ministers, intend to hold constituency clinics or do local work today, instead of attending Leinster House for the only Friday sitting this month.


Mr Gilmore will open a constituency office for one of his Labour TDs, Derek Nolan, in Galway at 9.30am. The Dail will sit for three hours between 10.30am and 1.30pm.
Three junior ministers are scheduled to hold clinics this morning, with Labour's Alan Kelly and Kathleen Lynch and Fine Gael's Fergus O'Dowd all seeing constituents in their offices in Tipperary, Cork and Louth respectively.
Oireachtas officials say sitting days cost €90,000 and the once-a-month Dail Friday sitting was introduced by the Fine Gael-Labour Government in July. But it has been described as a "sham" by the Opposition, with no questions to the Taoiseach or ministers -- or even any Dail votes.


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fg-and-labour-tds-vote-with-their-feet-by-ignoring-extra-dail-sessions-3009222.html

Well well.

Annasopra

Is this thread just about media reports?

CDfm

mango salsa wrote: »

Is this thread just about media reports?

Hey there.Its been a while

In a way yes, but a bit more linked up.

I was trying to use the media reports to get a snapshot of what was happening between TD's & their constituencies & then up to the Cabinet.

The Irish Government & Parliament run on a whip system and there is not a free vote by TD's . Party leaders decide policy and the whips enforce voting discipline.

The Coalition Senate Vote could not be unanimous if by the FG meeting 40% are not in favour.

So I was trying to profile what was going on rather than my opinion.

A bit of topic , but this for example,

A growing number of TDs also now believe that: "There has been a takeover by stealth by Gilmore, Ivana Bacik, Ruairi Quinn and Aodhan O'Riordan. They are the ones consistently grabbing the headlines -- the ordinary card-carrying member is horrified."

and this

Among those who were believed to be particularly infuriated were Colm Keaveney, Ann Phelan, Robert Dowds and Senator John Kelly.

Identify 2 separate camps in Labour.

I don't know if it works .

Sand

CDfm wrote: »

This belief is already having serious repercussions on the ground, where last week, at a series of church gate collections for the party, Labour TDs were "getting it in the neck not only from churchgoers but also non-churchgoers who believe the moves are vindictive and unfair".

Eh - wouldnt non-churchgoers at a church gate collection be churchgoers by definition. Doesnt really do much for the credibility of the article if its reliant on it is fiction and wishful thinking.

The vast majority of Irish people simply do not care about the Vatican closure though from what Ive seen and heard if people were forced to come up with a view theyd probably view it positively given the malign influence of the church on our country - practically right back to the 12th century when they plotted to grant Ireland lock, stock and barrel to the Kings of England as a papal fief.

Thanks lads!