The Bishops invite to the Pope.Being Catholic in Fine Gael.What's the story.??

southsiderosie

OP, I think the thread is getting a bit confusing, because you are bringing in links from all over the place and touching on a lot of issues.

CDfm wrote: »

I started this thread as I was trying to get a handle on what FG supporters think their party is.

So I tried to kick in media material to verify the Labour is this or FG is that.

I haven't seen any FG or Labour supporters come out and say this is my parties policy, so I was trying to synthesize it . Thought it would get them participating.

It shouldn't be too much a jump to discuss Eamon Gilmore is anti-catholic as some of his party colleagues seem to think that.

So is the main point of this thread, what are the parties' relationships with the Catholic Church? Is it about secularism in educational policy? Because I'm sorry to say, I think you've lost a lot of us along the way here, and I'm not sure how to turn this around.

SSR

BluntGuy

marty1985 wrote: »

I think I have seen some anti-Catholicism though, we all have. I think the attitude has become so ingrained as to be invisible. Anti-Catholicism is just different from other prejudices because it is targeted at an institution, and it's legitimate to target an institution right? Except, it's disingenuous to pretend that the institution is not fundamental to the Catholic Church. If the pope is a living symbol of the faith of Catholics and not just the head of an institution, and if we are to label him evil and wicked, what then are we to make of the people who follow him as a spiritual leader? Anti-church sentiment leads directly to contempt for practicing Catholics, those "flesh eaters".

But of course, a lot of criticism leveled at them is fair. But an awareness of anti-Catholicism is important, as well as a need to recognise that the charge of anti-Catholicism is as open to misuse as any other accusation of bigotry.

What is anti-Catholicism in your opinion? Is it prejudice against Catholics based solely on their membership of the Catholic church or is it criticism of the detestable actions and views of the church, and those who support such actions/views? Your post does not make this clear.

Tomk1

CDfm wrote: »

As the tories might say , what do they think in the shires.



Views may get entrenched yet.

Quoting David Quinn, really, really doesn't help whatever your quest is.

CDfm

The point of the thread was to ask about FG's & its membership/ catholic support.

FG is the main party in government and the Pope invite thing was a bit catalyst on various politicians of all parties taking out the rosary beads.

I really only meant to use the thread to look at the faith ethos of FG & its supporters and how it might influence the embassy closure and potential papal invite.

I had no idea of all the stuff in Labour and its catholic debate internally or the anti-catholic stuff which was all new to me.

The embassy pronouncement by Enda headed off that debate in the Labour Party.

I agree that something like the secularization of schools and Labour policy is a big and separate issue and a huge issue and deserves its own thread.

Things like Clare Daly's abortion Bill is due up next week and we really have little info on where the parties in coalition stand on anything like that

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0217/breaking44.html

As marienbad points out that other than the church there are a shed load of interest groups.

I am still clueless as to to the Fine Gael and catholicism.

CDfm

Tomk1 wrote: »

Quoting David Quinn, really, really doesn't help whatever your quest is.

I didn't call Eamon Gilmore an anti-catholic bigot as I do not know whether he is or not - I quoted David Quinn who did just to illustrate that some catholic members of Fine Gael ( & Labour) might feel that.

I just don't know what their policies and ethos are.

K-9

CDfm wrote: »

The point of the thread was to ask about FG's & its membership/ catholic support.

FG is the main party in government and the Pope invite thing was a bit catalyst on various politicians of all parties taking out the rosary beads.

I really only meant to use the thread to look at the faith ethos of FG & its supporters and how it might influence the embassy closure and potential papal invite.

I had no idea of all the stuff in Labour and its catholic debate internally or the anti-catholic stuff which was all new to me.

The embassy pronouncement by Enda headed off that debate in the Labour Party.

I agree that something like the secularization of schools and Labour policy is a big and separate issue and a huge issue and deserves its own thread.

Things like Clare Daly's abortion Bill is due up next week and we really have little info on where the parties in coalition stand on anything like that

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0217/breaking44.html

As marienbad points out that other than the church there are a shed load of interest groups.

I am still clueless as to to the Fine Gael and catholicism.

FG has a large Catholic Conservative vote that it is mindful of, and some Councilors and TD's are dependent on it. FG would also have a pretty liberal wing though that seems to me to have dwindled in influence since the days of Garret.

I think the confusion is, what actually are you asking? Does FG have a strong Conservative Catholic base to look after? Yes Do some supporters feel the Enda speech and closing of the Embassy was wrong? Yes.

As for the various positions on Abortion, I assume the parties will stick to their manifestos, which will involve compromise between the two coalition parties. If they ever decide to tackle it, expect the obligatory discussion paper.

[Mod]I'm kind of wondering where this thread is going and what purpose it is serving? Might be better to gather your ideas and start a new thread. [/Mod]

CDfm

K-9 wrote: »

[Mod]I'm kind of wondering where this thread is going and what purpose it is serving? Might be better to gather your ideas and start a new thread. [/Mod]

Thanks, I kind of have the central idea that no-one really knows and the leadership imposes its will on the TD's as opposed to policy originating being approved by TD's .

I can't see an ideology.

They could be in coalition with the anti-christ and the TD's /constituency parties would still be in the same powerless mode.

I really do wonder what I could put in a thread without the thread being pointless.

K-9

CDfm wrote: »

Thanks, I kind of have the central idea that no-one really knows and the leadership imposes its will on the TD's as opposed to policy originating being approved by TD's .

I can't see an ideology.

While the Kenny speech was good and some politician had to say it, what seems to have been Labour pressure to close the Embassy didn't go down well with FG grass roots.

They could be in coalition with the anti-christ and the TD's /constituency parties would still be in the same powerless mode.

All Government parties have this problem, with the whip system and centralisation of policy making. I'd wonder how much input the TD's have on economic policy as well.

I really do wonder what I could put in a thread without the thread being pointless.

With that I think I'll close it. Thread started with a particular point and seems to have gone way off-topic.