Value of clear fell

Cavanjack

My parents have about 30 acres of Sitka spruce planted eight years. I know it's a long way from clear fell at the minute but does anyone know the value of an acre of clear fell now?

greenfingers89

Cavanjack wrote: »

My parents have about 30 acres of Sitka spruce planted eight years. I know it's a long way from clear fell at the minute but does anyone know the value of an acre of clear fell now?

i dont think its a very good idea asking a question like this here because you could get all sorts of answers and end up with notions that mightnt be anyway accurate for your own situation. but seen as you asked:rolleyes: clearfell can generally make between €3,000 and €8,000. if its managed well and the market is decent you could be looking at the 4/5 mark

richie123

greenfingers89 wrote: »

i dont think its a very good idea asking a question like this here because you could get all sorts of answers and end up with notions that mightnt be anyway accurate for your own situation. but seen as you asked:rolleyes: clearfell can generally make between €3,000 and €8,000. if its managed well and the market is decent you could be looking at the 4/5 mark

what woould you be talking whens costs of clearfell are factored in??

Wild Bill

Excluding roading costs (which may be grant aided if necessary) at clearfell you'd expect say an average tree size of 0.6m3 with perhaps 700m3 / ha (depending on the thinning history, stocking, growth rate etc etc etc).

Currently you can expect to pay around €15/m3 to harvest such a stand and the standing value is currently in the region of €60/m3.

Net roadside value of €45/m3 (at a minimum) means your crop should be worth about at least €32,000 per ha (if it were being sold today - these are conservative figures).

If you are being quoted anything less than this - consult Teagasc or put the timber up on a public auction site several major Irish Forestry Companies operate them.

(Being a Cavan man I'm sure you are not going to give it away )

fodda

Net roadside value of €45/m3 (at a minimum)

Is that all.......how much is firewood per cube?

Wild Bill

fodda wrote: »

Is that all.......how much is firewood per cube?

Depends on location; €25 -€30 for the very best locations/species.

Your roadside trees will have 10 - 15% material too small for a sawmill; only maybe 70% will be quality sawmill grade.

You may also get some stake material from the stand; depends on quality.

€45/m3 roadside is an average for the lot.

F.D

What sort of tax would you have to pay on the lump sum at clearfell ?

Wild Bill

F.D wrote: »

What sort of tax would you have to pay on the lump sum at clearfell ?

It's tax free.

richie123

Wild Bill wrote: »

It's tax free.

i think your mixing it up with the yearly pemium which is tax free?the sale of any product is taxable (only if its declared at that!:D)

Wild Bill

No - log sales from your own forest are tax free.

greenfingers89

Wild Bill wrote: »

Excluding roading costs (which may be grant aided if necessary) at clearfell you'd expect say an average tree size of 0.6m3 with perhaps 700m3 / ha (depending on the thinning history, stocking, growth rate etc etc etc).

Currently you can expect to pay around €15/m3 to harvest such a stand and the standing value is currently in the region of €60/m3.

Net roadside value of €45/m3 (at a minimum) means your crop should be worth about at least €32,000 per ha (if it were being sold today - these are conservative figures).

If you are being quoted anything less than this - consult Teagasc or put the timber up on a public auction site several major Irish Forestry Companies operate them.

(Being a Cavan man I'm sure you are not going to give it away )

not trying to cause rows but i really dont think these figures stack up. if you say the average tree size is 0.6m3 and you have 700m3 per hectare then that means a stocking of 1166 trees per hectare. that doesnt make sense to me. if its properly thinned theres no way you'd have that stocking, if yo did have that stocking due to serious underthinning then i dont believe your average tree size would be near 0.6m3

fits

Some people were making 25000 to 30000 profit per hectare in the last year.

And its tax free.

Its worthwhile managing your plantation for timber as opposed to premiums. Get informed about inspection paths, roading, thinning. You're going to need to start thinking about thinning at 12 years age which should provide a steady income stream from such a plantation size from first thinning on.

greenfingers89

fits wrote: »

Some people were making 25000 to 30000 profit per hectare in the last year.

You're going to need to start thinking about thinning at 12 years age which should provide a steady income stream from such a plantation size from first thinning on.

before everyone gets carried away there needs to be a healthy consideration given to Yield Class, tree quality and species mix. let alone access, total area, location and peaks and troughs in the market

Wild Bill

greenfingers89 wrote: »

not trying to cause rows but i really dont think these figures stack up. if you say the average tree size is 0.6m3 and you have 700m3 per hectare then that means a stocking of 1166 trees per hectare. that doesnt make sense to me. if its properly thinned theres no way you'd have that stocking, if yo did have that stocking due to serious underthinning then i dont believe your average tree size would be near 0.6m3

Very few stands are "properly thinned". In wet areas two-thin is much more common - and more commercially viable. After 0.6m3 there is no further premium for tree size.

Indeed the opposite; price/m3 for Sitka declines above about 0.7 - 0.8.

Modern harvesting machinery/sawmills geared to about a 0.6 optimum.

fits

greenfingers89 wrote: »

before everyone gets carried away there needs to be a healthy consideration given to Yield Class, tree quality and species mix. let alone access, total area, location and peaks and troughs in the market

Sorry I was interrupted before I could properly finish that post. But yes, absolutely agree.

greenfingers89

Wild Bill wrote: »

Very few stands are "properly thinned". In wet areas two-thin is much more common - and more commercially viable. After 0.6m3 there is no further premium for tree size.

Indeed the opposite; price/m3 for Sitka declines above about 0.7 - 0.8.

Modern harvesting machinery/sawmills geared to about a 0.6 optimum.

but surely in wet areas (as in wet enough not to thin a third time ....although i dont see why not if you can do it twice already) the harvester is putting more pulp underneath the machine to keep it up and therefore losing volume delivered to roadside

i know what you're saying about commercially viable but its increasingly becoming enticing to forest owners to produce more regular and earlier income from third or occasionally fourth thinning. it all depends on whether theres a critical mass i suppose to justify the machinery showing up

greenfingers89

Wild Bill wrote: »

Indeed the opposite; price/m3 for Sitka declines above about 0.7 - 0.8.

Modern harvesting machinery/sawmills geared to about a 0.6 optimum.

the figures dont seem to back this up going on these prices;

http://www.teagasc.ie/forestry/technical_info/timber_prices.asp#Timber_prices_supplied_by_Coillte

Wild Bill

They don't!

Last time I saw a list of prices they peaked at 0.7 (or thereabouts)

F.D

is all the advertisment and figures a bit misleading then, you are taking a long term gamble on something that 1 may not yield well in the time scale suggested for what ever reason, or pay well due to lack of demand or assosiated harvesting / replanting costs

Wild Bill

Some of the "forestry funds" advertising is misleading.

Irish forestry is a relatively safe, long term, moderate yield investment.

For short/medium term high yields - buy bank shares!