dangers of timber from containers

JMSE

Hi, hope I dont mislead anyone with the title because I dont know of any dangers related to timbers that are used to pack loads in 40' containers which come from all over the globe to this country.

But, in my place of work, we bring in hundreds of containers every year. They come from Spain, Italy, UK, US, India, Africa, China and others. Generalising, the timber used in Western countries is fresh and clean softwood, but the stuff that comes from India and Africa is ..... heavy, hard - very hard, often very mouldy and stained, woodwormed, smelly, sometimes yellow with sawdust as yellow as lemon peel.

The question is, does anyone here know of any dangers i.e. beetles, worms, spiders?, strange growths on this kind of stuff. Maybe containers are fumigated and so all life is terminated inside before shipping??? I dont know.

The reason I ask is, I bring this stuff home to burn it.

Victor

There are risks and customs have been know to seize or refuse such timber.

If you are burning this in an open fire, there is an added risk from burning any fumigants.

JMSE

Sorry for not replying till now, been away, not burning in an open fire though, we're using a stove.

pegasus1

There would still be a risk as the smoke may settle once it leaves the chimney.

So it may be harmful to you or your neighbors....ie. do you, when outside your house and your stove is lighting smell smoke in the air?

Btw I thought the breaking up and burning of pallets is illegal.

Merch

breaking up pallets to burn is illegal? to be reused?

paddy147

pegasus1 wrote: »

There would still be a risk as the smoke may settle once it leaves the chimney.

So it may be harmful to you or your neighbors....ie. do you, when outside your house and your stove is lighting smell smoke in the air?

Btw I thought the breaking up and burning of pallets is illegal.

The pallets I use from time to time,to burn in my stove,are all made from rough sawn red deal and pine.

I dont use or burn the blue or red coloured pallets,as they have a chemical dye sprayed into them.

pegasus1

Merch wrote: »

breaking up pallets to burn is illegal? to be reused?

You can get hard cash for good pallets from certain pallet yards can't remember where...yes for reuse...

Merch

Any ideas how much? is the chemical dye harmful? I assume its a preservative
I've a few pallets, was thinking of giving them away to someone to burn.
Some are the blue ones, others are plain.

JMSE

I've been doin a good bit of research about this since I posted up originally. On the issue of timbers used in internationally shipped containers: these get treated in order to prevent transfer of pests from country to country. There are two ways to treat the timber, heat or fumigation.

Heat treatment involves raising the temperature of the timbers over 56degrees celcius for a period of time and its the only method used now in the EU.

Fumigation involves gas, Methyl Bromide, usually injected into the container thru the doorseals. Its still widely used around the world.

These pallets/timbers will have a clear stamp on them to identify which method of pest control they have undergone, HT or MB.

So next time you are about to chop up a pallet or any length of timber you have ex-freight shipping, have a quick look, if it has a pest control stamp (HT or MB) then you will be in the place I am now. I have lots of both and am now learning that its not advised to burn the Mehtyl Bromide gassed stuff.

Also if its painted blue or red then I wouldnt burn it either as its covered in all sorts of nasty stuff to preserve it. I'd even guess (very unscientificly) that these pallets pose a higher risk than the MB stuff as the bad stuff is painted on, as opposed to gassing.

I'm not giving up just yet though on my MB gassed timbers. Theres very little official advice on what to do with these, just forum type advice where most have said its not advisable and some who say it qualifies as industrial waste and should be treated as so (tech speak for 'it belongs in a skip' which is where us wood-scavengers get our raw material ). Maybe a few months out in the wet Irish weather would leave it perfectly 'washed' for burning.

I'll post up a pic with the different stamps and you might recognise them...





more info I found this evening from Oregon State University...

Environmental Fate:

Breakdown in soil and groundwater: Methyl bromide quickly evaporates at temperatures ordinarily encountered in fumigating, but some may be entrapped in soil micropores following application [11]. Methyl bromide is moderately persistent in the soil environment, with a field half-life of between 30 and 60 days; a representative half-life is estimated to be about 55 days [11]. Transformation of methyl bromide into bromide increases as the amount of organic matter in the soil increases. It is soluble in water and very poorly sorbed by soils. Some leaching may occur if bromomethane is entrapped in soil micropores following fumigation; the rate of degradation for retained bromomethane in fumigated soil is 6 to 14% per day at 20 C [11].
Breakdown in water: Methyl bromide quickly evaporates at temperatures ordinarily encountered in fumigating; therefore run-off from fields into surface waters is very rare. If it does contact surface waters, the average half-life for methyl bromide under field conditions has been calculated to be 6.6 hours at 11 C [8]. Another study showed the half-life in water to be 20 days at 25 C in a neutral solution [8].
Breakdown in vegetation: The amount of bromide ion (the metabolite of methyl bromide) taken up from the soil, is proportional to the protein content of the crop. Higher levels of the bromide ion will most likely be found in high-protein plants [8].

It does read as if this stuff doesnt hang around forever, so after a few months, there may be no trace of it?



More from 'Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service AQIS':
Methyl bromide will, in general, only penetrate 100 mm from the surface into timber within the fumigation exposure period.

That last fact is a shocker to be honest, it can penetrate 4inches into timber!!!!! That said though, the same site describes how the temperature of fresh fruit must be ascertained prior to fumigation so as to calculate the dosage, and that is done by sticking a probe into say an apple, so if its ok for someone then to eat that apple.....

pegasus1

Good research there Jmse...

JMSE

I realise the discussion here is over but I'm posting all I can find here as there is more info in my thread here than I've found on any other forum ANYWHERE. Also I'm hoping someone with a real scientific background might read this and give me the answer I want.

So anyway, more info and its a great find for me, as its a clip from the 'firewood dealer application form' for the Dept of Agriculture, Wisconsin, where all firewood apparently needs to be rid of pests before sale and the dealer needs to tick one of the methods.....

Section 4 – Treatment Methods     Please check the appropriate box(es).
I hereby declare that all firewood is treated in at least one of the following methods prior to sale or distribution in Wisconsin:

Each piece of firewood is heat treated to a temperature of at least 160 º F. (71.1 º C) at the center of each piece, and is maintained at
that temperature for at least 75 minutes.

All bark, and additional wood, to a depth of at least 1/2 inch beneath the bark, is removed from each piece of firewood.

The firewood is stored on the firewood dealer's premises for at least 2 years before it is sold or distributed in this state.

The firewood is fumigated with a registered fumigant pesticide (methyl bromide), according to the pesticide label, to kill all pests that
may inhabit the firewood.

The firewood is treated in a manner approved, in writing, by the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection,
to kill all pests that may inhabit the firewood.
$50.00 annual certification blahdy blah blah

slowburner

JMSE wrote: »

Section 4 – Treatment Methods Please check the appropriate box(es).
I hereby declare that all firewood is treated in at least one of the following methods prior to sale or distribution in Wisconsin:

Each piece of firewood is heat treated to a temperature of at least 160 º F. (71.1 º C) at the center of each piece, and is maintained at
that temperature for at least 75 minutes.

All bark, and additional wood, to a depth of at least 1/2 inch beneath the bark, is removed from each piece of firewood.

The firewood is stored on the firewood dealer's premises for at least 2 years before it is sold or distributed in this state.

The firewood is fumigated with a registered fumigant pesticide (methyl bromide), according to the pesticide label, to kill all pests that
may inhabit the firewood.

The firewood is treated in a manner approved, in writing, by the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection,
to kill all pests that may inhabit the firewood.
$50.00 annual certification blahdy blah blah

:eek: Kinda makes a joke of the sustainability of firewood as a fuel source - how much energy needs to be used to de-bark and heat the wood to 71ºC for 75 minutes?