How would you solve the problems in the Education system?

micropig

seavill wrote: »

As i said I had a fantastic resource for the topic I was covering (it was not photosynthesis by the way that was just an example for you to answer how I use photos in a question, which you did not answer by the way)

I was not aware of it as I had to take over 9 single periods from a teacher who unexpectedly ended up in hospital. I was called in at less than a days notice and there is only so much info that can be given in the timeframe that was available

This particular students needs huge resource hours and there are fantastic teachers in the school to give it to him, however the hours are not available due to cuts,

The reality is that schools or any thing that is not a big multi national will not be able to keep up with technological advancements as they happen so talking about Ipads etc is not practical in terms of reality, of a whole country issue, and something that does not require a radical overhaul of the entire educational system.

Ok I will ask this for probably the 5th time and I know someone else already asked. What is your background in education or is there a reason you are refusing to answer the question?

You are making more of an issue out of it by not answering. Remember back to my first post I was actually on your side, not slating you like others.

And just to help the other poster she did not say that they would sit for 9 classes a day, she clearly gave you an example of doing a class test where it is required. Obviously as I and they have discussed we are the ones talking about using all these great ideas AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE

Why use only one fantastic resource to teach a topic, why not use a few?

But surely every child with needs identified has a file, so no matter what teacher is teaching them, they could be aware of the situation. The teacher who was teaching the class a least had this flagged?


resource hours for students like these are a disgrace, but again unions did not fight for this over the years, to set up a proper system of proving support for struggling students?

What is your educational background? Have you worked in industry? Have you worked in schools abroad?

seavill wrote: »

You want to equip every classroom in the country with 30 laptops/PCs to be used by every teacher in every lesson for research/videos/presentations/quizes?

Reality?

Background?

In this day an age technology is not going anywhere, it is here to stay. When students leave school, they will be required to use technology, no matter what area they end up working in. Why are we not using these resources more?

Could start with sets of laptops schools could use. Teachers book them for whatever class requires them. Why would every teacher in every lesson be using the laptops? Again why do you only see it as the only teaching technique I am suggesting be used? Don't see any reason why it shouldn't be extended to all pupils over time.

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Why use only one fantastic resource to teach a topic, why not use a few?

But surely every child with needs identified has a file, so no matter what teacher is teaching them, they could be aware of the situation. The teacher who was teaching the class a least had this flagged?


resource hours for students like these are a disgrace, but again unions did not fight for this over the years, to set up a proper system of proving support for struggling students?

What is your educational background? Have you worked in industry? Have you worked in schools abroad?




In this day an age technology is not going anywhere, it is here to stay. When students leave school, they will be required to use technology, no matter what area they end up working in. Why are we not using these resources more?

Could start with sets of laptops schools could use. Teachers book them for whatever class requires them. Why would every teacher in every lesson be using the laptops? Again why do you only see it as the only teaching technique I am suggesting be used? Don't see any reason why it shouldn't be extended to all pupils over time.

I am only responding to the suggestions you discuss I.e. laptops for watching videos individually, research things you have mentioned book them fine but what about the times when you can't have them.

You are arguing the point about active lessons with 2 people who clearly use them and have given examples. I have given one example of 20 mins of one lesson and you are trying your best to pick holes in it where ever you can.

I worked in industry for 2 years as there was a lack of jobs at the time I then taught in England for a year before luckily finding jobs here. Teaching here 6 years. That's my background.

I am clearly agreeing with you and have done since I first posted. Every time I pointed out an obvious flaw in you arguments you drop it and move to something else. I have agreed and shown how I use active lessons and you still want to criticise me.

At this stage I am going to take it that you are one of those teachers you keep referring to that has failed and has given u because you could not control a class and now want to do the only thing you can do and attack teachers on an anonymous forum.
You are like one of those education lecturers in college who has never stepped foot in a classroom.

Reminder I had been agreeing with you all along until you won't answer the question and do nothing but try slag off those who are obviously interested due to our obvious interest in this forum

spurious

micropig wrote: »

remove students from class

This gave me a laugh, thanks.

Benicetomonty

micropig wrote: »

seavill wrote: »

This was my first time teaching this particular group and I was not aware of the situation.

However going back to the original point, I have given an example of a situation where I used technology in the classroom and as you can see we can still come up with 20 more problems that can occur even with the best intention in the world to make the classes as active as possible. You came back to me with using another video clip. The point I am making is technology is not the answer to behavioural issues as you were making it out to be.

SNA's have enough to be doing looking after their student(s) rather than extending their workload. In general they already help out as much as they can and do tell lads to be quiet if it is needed.

Can I ask you again what your educational background is, as I do believe it gives extra weight to your arguments.

Why weren't you aware of the situation? Teachers should have this information, even so every lesson should be differentiated so all abilities can participate

Through song is just another example of how this pupil could learn about photosynthesis, (maybe he has an interest in music and would engage quicker with a song) they're are many other ways. Hand a child a book and hand a child an ipod, which do you think they would enjoy more? Again, more engaged students = less behavioral issues

*not suggesting students only use computer but they can be used to support other teaching strategies

It great SNA's help out as much they can, obviously their focus on the child they are supporting, but if the child they are supporting is able to manage with the task, no harm on SNA giving help to another student who is struggling

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Are you actually joking me? I spent an hour this evening correcting 2 essays-there's your example! Outside of professional sports, I doubt there's a job in existence that does not require the worker to spend at least 40 minutes at some stage during the week in one position or another, even if it's just answering the phone or completing some paperwork!

And I believe I said I didn't think it was too much to ask if a student was to sit reasonably still for 40 minutes every once in a while, like if they were doing an in-class exam or writing a research essay (an activity you suggested in the same thread, one that's very difficult to do standing up and role-playing).
If the 5 words in bold above weren't obviously implied (even though they were), then apologies Pedantic much?

So we are sending our children to school to learn how to sit for 40 mins

Teachers complain students won't sit for 40 minutes quietly. If they know they will not do this, why are they planning classes that require the student to do so? This is only looking for trouble

(Remember student probably came from sitting 40 minutes in another class)


Edit: Just on the reseach an essay comment - Wouldn't it be better , if the teacher guided the student where to find the information
Some of the sources which could be used: Books, Internet in class

Current sources: Books, internet but not in class

Once again you cannot admit when youre wrong, like so many children that get themselves in trouble at school. Ive had enough. Whatever brief flirtation youve enjoyed/are enjoying with an education system has left you with lots of ideals and no experience whatsover.

micropig

seavill wrote: »

I am only responding to the suggestions you discuss I.e. laptops for watching videos individually, research things you have mentioned book them fine but what about the times when you can't have them.

You are arguing the point about active lessons with 2 people who clearly use them and have given examples. I have given one example of 20 mins of one lesson and you are trying your best to pick holes in it where ever you can.

I worked in industry for 2 years as there was a lack of jobs at the time I then taught in England for a year before luckily finding jobs here. Teaching here 6 years. That's my background.

I am clearly agreeing with you and have done since I first posted. Every time I pointed out an obvious flaw in you arguments you drop it and move to something else. I have agreed and shown how I use active lessons and you still want to criticise me.

At this stage I am going to take it that you are one of those teachers you keep referring to that has failed and has given u because you could not control a class and now want to do the only thing you can do and attack teachers on an anonymous forum.
You are like one of those education lecturers in college who has never stepped foot in a classroom.

Reminder I had been agreeing with you all along until you won't answer the question and do nothing but try slag off those who are obviously interested due to our obvious interest in this forum

I'm only suggesting solutions to the problems offered (none so far are the students fault, but all have to do with lack of motivation by the teacher to find out the level the students in the class are working at and presenting them with activities they may actually enjoy learning through.

Benicetomonty wrote: »

Once again you cannot admit when youre wrong, like so many children that get themselves in trouble at school. Ive had enough. Whatever brief flirtation youve enjoyed/are enjoying with an education system has left you with lots of ideals and no experience whatsover.

Will me being wrong fix the problems outlined in the OP?

The lack of solutions by teachers to their own problems again is astonishing, or are you suggesting the problems outlined don't exist?

what would you do to fix things?

Should teachers who haven't bothered to improve their skills and learn how to use technology in their class earn the same as those who have?

micropig

spurious wrote: »

This gave me a laugh, thanks.

Why are teachers/unions not shouting about the lack of support they are been given to effectively manage behaviour problems?

byhookorbycrook

micropig wrote: »

Why are teachers/unions not shouting about the lack of support they are been given to effectively manage behaviour problems?

Because we have and people like you brand it as "teachers whining again."

As to protesting against special needs cuts, we did that too- on Saturdays and withg parents and children ,once more taken as whining teachers.

I am amused by your idea that laptops for everyone will eradicate behavioural issues.

micropig

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Because we have and people like you brand it as "teachers whining again."

As to protesting against special needs cuts, we did that too- on Saturdays and withg parents and children ,once more taken as whining teachers.

I am amused by your idea that laptops for everyone will eradicate behavioural issues.

In what language does reduce mean eradicate?

Technology = more that just laptops

What is you solution?

*Unions should have sorted out a proper solution to support underachieving children when they had all the money, instead teachers striked because their pension where being cut. I'm sure the issue didn't just suddenly appear this year. It up to the unions to pick their battles and it's not the public's fault they choose to focus on pay and not conditions

lestat21

I followed the previous discussion in after hours forum because I taut it was an important issue for teachers to be aware of but that thread just turned into teacher bashing and then bashing the bashers. I taut this thread would be different but micropig you dont have one positive thing to say to the suggestions of people who are your peers and colleagues. Its even worse as we now having teachers bashing other teachers.

As someone who implies they are a teacher, I'm sure you understand the importance of constructive criticism in keeping students on your side.

micropig

lestat21 wrote: »

I followed the previous discussion in after hours forum because I taut it was an important issue for teachers to be aware of but that thread just turned into teacher bashing and then bashing the bashers. I taut this thread would be different but micropig you dont have one positive thing to say to the suggestions of people who are your peers and colleagues. Its even worse as we now having teachers bashing other teachers.

As someone who implies they are a teacher, I'm sure you understand the importance of constructive criticism in keeping students on your side.

So your solution is just keep pretending that there are no issues and nothing wrong with the way we are educating children?

Maybe a teacher can see what is wrong, and is it a bad thing to question what we are doing? Is it wrong to look at ways to improve education?

Once you become a teacher, you are supposed to blindly stick up for a system with obvious flaws?

It's interesting to see how many teachers take offence when the education system is criticised.

And yet nobody has offered other solutions so far...............................

* I have said many positive things about other peoples suggestions
Is what you are saying constructive critism?

lestat21

I know there are many problems in the education system, as I'm a secondary school teacher myself and my mother used to be an SNA, but this is not how you discuss it... You're very negative, aggressive and condescending in your tone.

I will not be following this thread any further. Although if micropig ever discloses his/her current position in the education system, I'd appreciate it if someone on here could pm me? The suspense is killing me!!!

micropig

lestat21 wrote: »

I know there are many problems in the education system, as I'm a secondary school teacher myself and my mother used to be an SNA, but this is not how you discuss it... You're very negative, aggressive and condescending in your tone.

I will not be following this thread any further. Although if micropig ever discloses his/her current position in the education system, I'd appreciate it if someone on here could pm me? The suspense is killing me!!!

I have asked people to provide solutions......
Nobody has offered their own solutions, rather critise my solution
I'm sorry if my solutions offends you

This indicates to me teachers don't have any solutions to their own problems?

Why is my position in the education system important to you? What are you going to do if you find out who I am?????? What difference does it make to the discussion here?

#15

micropig wrote: »

This indicates to me teachers don't have any solutions to their own problems?

Have you considered the possibility that you have misdiagnosed the problems?

micropig

#15 wrote: »

Have you considered the possibility that you have misdiagnosed the problems?

What are the problems then?

What is your opinion of:
A teacher who gives a student a worksheet they can not read?
Teachers who do not find out if any of their class need extra support?
A teacher who plans classes were the students are in their seats for 40 minutes, knowing full well that students won't sit there for 40 mins?
Teachers who fail students because they give feedback that the class is boring?


***Any one who previously replied saying technology is not the way forward, get your placards out because government have announced they are rolling out a plan to provide high speed broadband to schools

#15

micropig wrote: »

In my opinion the ratio of the education budget spent on teachers salaries should be reduced and the amount spent on facilities increased.

Same amount of money in the pot, just spent differently

(I'm only sorry that during the Celtic tiger that schools & equipment were not invested in. We had enough money in the country at the time to provide state of the art facilities for the children but invested most of the education budget in teachers salaries.)

During the Celtic Tiger, Irish education was underfunded compared to other countries.
Why not just wish that we funded education to the same levels as the OECD average?
No need for messing around with ratios then.

Also, 70% to 80% of expenditure going towards salaries is normal for nearly all OECD countries.
Furthermore, that figure includes all staff in the DES, not just teachers, so it is not accurate to claim that teaching staff account for all of the salary expenditure. This may not be your fault, as our media is pretty poor at paying attention to detail. As are a few ideologues and agenda posters on boards. As well as that, the DES estimate figures for 2011 have pay and pensions taking up 66% of the education budget.

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

What is your opinion of:
A teacher who gives a student a worksheet they can not read?
Teachers who do not find out if any of their class need extra support?
A teacher who plans classes were the students are in their seats for 40 minutes, knowing full well that students won't sit there for 40 mins?
Teachers who fail students because they give feedback that the class is boring?

Seavill answered your first question, yet now you want other teachers to give an opinion on his/her teaching skills. Divisive much?

Have you examples of teachers who haven't found out if someone in their class needs extra support?

As for your third question, have you ever had to give a talk to a group of people who were up walking around the room?

It would be great if you would answer these questions in a non confrontational manner. Shucks, it'd be great if you answered them at all!

micropig

#15 wrote: »

During the Celtic Tiger, Irish education was underfunded compared to other countries.
Why not just wish that we funded education to the same levels as the OECD average?
No need for messing around with ratios then.

Also, 70% to 80% of expenditure going towards salaries is normal for nearly all OECD countries.
Furthermore, that figure includes all staff in the DES, not just teachers, so it is not accurate to claim that teaching staff account for all of the salary expenditure. This may not be your fault, as our media is pretty poor at paying attention to detail. As are a few ideologues and agenda posters on boards. As well as that, the DES estimate figures for 2011 have pay and pensions taking up 66% of the education budget.

Well in 2009 we had a record education budget and didn't manage to spend it all by December of that year -even though it was evident that many schools need upgrading.

Where are our student attainment levels in relation to other OCED countries?
Please provide links

How much does it cost us to educate our students in relation to other OCED countries?
Please provide links


& I have no agenda only to improve conditions for both pupils and teachers.

#15

micropig wrote: »

What are the problems then?

What is your opinion of:
A teacher who gives a student a worksheet they can not read?
Teachers who do not find out if any of their class need extra support?
A teacher who plans classes were the students are in their seats for 40 minutes, knowing full well that students won't sit there for 40 mins?
Teachers who fail students because they give feedback that the class is boring?

I would say that is mostly poor practice, at the instruction and planning levels. Isn't that obvious?

There are other problems though. I'll address the first and third points you raised:
- Why can the student not read adequately? What system allows someone to slip through the cracks for so long? Why was that student not given intensive tuition at an early stage to help him/her catch up?
- What causes teachers to plan a 40 min lesson where everyone must remain seated? Lack of confidence? Poor classroom management skills? An exam system that incentivises and rewards this style of instruction? Unruly students, who cannot behave when given the freedom to complete project-based work?

micropig

Feeona wrote: »

Seavill answered your first question, yet now you want other teachers to give an opinion on his/her teaching skills. Divisive much?

Have you examples of teachers who haven't found out if someone in their class needs extra support?

As for your third question, have you ever had to give a talk to a group of people who were up walking around the room?

It would be great if you would answer these questions in a non confrontational manner. Shucks, it'd be great if you answered them at all!

Well I have been told my opinion of it is wrong, so yes I think it is necessary to ask others what their opinion of it is

examples of teachers who haven't found out if someone in their class needs extra support-Read the thread

Why are you talking to them when they are up walking around the room, surely you know they are not listening to you? I never suggested that teachers talk to them while they are walking around the room. In fact I think I suggested that teachers should talk less and give the students the opportunity to learn more through independent learning and research

micropig

#15 wrote: »

I would say that is mostly poor practice, at the instruction and planning levels. Isn't that obvious?

There are other problems though. I'll address the first and third points you raised:
- Why can the student not read adequately? What system allows someone to slip through the cracks for so long? Why was that student not given intensive tuition at an early stage to help him/her catch up?
- What causes teachers to plan a 40 min lesson where everyone must remain seated? Lack of confidence? Poor classroom management skills? An exam system that incentivises and rewards this style of instruction? Unruly students, who cannot behave when given the freedom to complete project-based work?

It seemed obvious to me, but others didn't see it the same way!

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

Well I have been told my opinion of it is wrong, so yes I think it is necessary to ask others what their opinion of it is

examples of teachers who haven't found out if someone in their class needs extra support-Read the thread

Why are you talking to them when they are up walking around the room, surely you know they are not listening to you? I never suggested that teachers talk to them while they are walking around the room. In fact I think I suggested that teachers should talk less and give the students the opportunity to learn more through independent learning and research

Well in this thread many posters have mentioned you being confrontational. That might have something to do with the fact that people aren't weighing in with your opinion.

I found the example you mentioned, but the teacher explained the dynamics of the situation, a situation beyond his/her control. So do you have any examples of teachers who haven't realised that a child needed support in his/her class?

I asked you the question 'Have you ever given a talk to people when they're walking around the room?' and you still haven't answered it. All you've done is ask an inflammatory question about my teaching style. So could you answer my question please?

#15

micropig wrote: »

Well in 2009 we had a record education budget and didn't manage to spend it all by December of that year -even though it was evident that many schools need upgrading.

What is your point here?

That the money isn't needed?

Do you know why the money wasn't spent? (I do, so think carefully before you answer)

Where are our student attainment levels in relation to other OCED countries?
Please provide links

Reading - average
Maths - below average
Science - above average

That's accordiing to the OECD PISA 2009 results, which is an assessment of a sample of 15 year olds.

You can look for the link yourself, I own a copy of the report and I'm not going to scan it in for you.:)

micropig

Feeona wrote: »

Well in this thread many posters have mentioned you being confrontational. That might have something to do with the fact that people aren't weighing in with your opinion.

I found the example you mentioned, but the teacher explained the dynamics of the situation, a situation beyond his/her control. So do you have any examples of teachers who haven't realised that a child needed support in his/her class?

I asked you the question 'Have you ever given a talk to people when they're walking around the room?' and you still haven't answered it. All you've done is ask an inflammatory question about my teaching style. So could you answer my question please?

Why do you see this as an exceptional circumstance? Surely every child who needs additional education support has an IEP (Individual education plan). If this has not been provided formally, surely the previous teacher of the class had it flagged that a child has reached this level and can't read? So no matter what teacher happens to be taking this class can reference this information?




No I have never talked while they are walking around the room. I direct the students what to do, where to find the information, what type of information they should be looking for, teach them how to check its valid & reliable information, give them the resources and let them get on with it. I then have time to circulate there classroom and monitor that each student is on task, tackling any disruptive behaviour and helping students who are stuck

micropig

#15 wrote: »

What is your point here?

That the money isn't needed?

Do you know why the money wasn't spent? (I do, so think carefully before you answer)



Reading - average
Maths - below average
Science - above average

That's accordiing to the OECD PISA 2009 results, which is an assessment of a sample of 15 year olds.

You can look for the link yourself, I own a copy of the report and I'm not going to scan it in for you.:)

Money is needed. Money was provided, money was not spent, children are still in substandard facilities??? No grumble from the union

LINKS ?? Do teachers not have to provide links to back up their point. I have links with suggest another opinion.

Edit: Is it good enough that our 15year olds are average and below average in Maths & Reading?

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

Why do you see this as an exceptional circumstance? Surely every child who needs additional education support has an IEP (Individual education plan). If this has not been provided formally, surely the previous teacher of the class had it flagged that a child has reached this level and can't read? So no matter what teacher happens to be taking this class can reference this information?




No I have never talked while they are walking around the room. I direct the students what to do, where to find the information, what type of information they should be looking for, teach them how to check its valid & reliable information, give them the resources and let them get on with it. I then have time to circulate there classroom and monitor that each student is on task, tackling any disruptive behaviour and helping students who are stuck

I will ask the question for the third time : Have you any examples of teachers who weren't aware of special needs within their class?

Thank you for the answer to the other question. Sounds like a normal lesson to me.

micropig

Feeona wrote: »

I will ask the question for the third time : Have you any examples of teachers who weren't aware of special needs within their class?

Thank you for the answer to the other question. Sounds like a normal lesson to me.

Ok you couldn't pick it up by reading the thread so here it is.

seavill wrote: »

If he cannot read the question in the first place how is this possible?

My question: why is the teacher giving the student a worksheet with questions on it the student is unable to read? Why isn't the teacher aware the student has low reading levels and plan accordingly?

Then why are you asking if I ever tried to talk over students who were walking around? Bit of a mad question if in a normal lesson you don't do this anyway?

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

Ok you couldn't pick it up by reading the thread so here it is.




My question: why is the teacher giving the student a worksheet with questions on it the student is unable to read? Why isn't the teacher aware the student has low reading levels and plan accordingly?

The teacher in question explained the dynamics of the situation, and I referred to this in my other posts (you obviously didn't pick it up by just reading my posts).

Fourth time : Have you any examples of teachers (not in situations beyond their control, just to make it very clear) not being aware of children in their class with special needs?

micropig

Feeona wrote: »

The teacher in question explained the dynamics of the situation, and I referred to this in my other posts (you obviously didn't pick it up by just reading my posts).

Fourth time : Have you any examples of teachers (not in situations beyond their control, just to make it very clear) not being aware of children in their class with special needs?

How is the situation beyond the teachers control? Again surely, extra needs are identified on the pupils file and if a teacher is taking the class, it is up to the teacher to find this out?

Another question: Why aren't all lessons differentiated by task so that a student of any level can participate?

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

How is the situation beyond the teachers control? Again surely, extra needs are identified on the pupils file and if a teacher is taking the class, it is up to the teacher to find this out?

So you don't have any examples of teachers being unaware of special needs children in his/her class? Please answer the question yes or no.

micropig

Feeona wrote: »

So you don't have any examples of teachers being unaware of special needs children in his/her class? Please answer the question yes or no.

*sigh, yes the teacher in this thread was not aware a pupil in their class had a particularly low level of reading

Any answer to my second question?

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

*sigh, yes the teacher in this thread was not aware a pupil in their class had a particularly low level of reading

So you don't have any examples of teachers (not in situations beyond their control) being unaware of children with special needs in the classroom?

You highlighted this as a problem yet you have no examples of it happening!

byhookorbycrook

IEPs are not legally required as EPSEN has never been enacted.

I am getting out of this thread now, as Micro-Pig doesn't seem to have a clue of the day to day running of schools and seems to my mind to be trolling.

micropig

Feeona wrote: »

So you don't have any examples of teachers (not in situations beyond their control) being unaware of children with special needs in the classroom?

Again, why is the situation beyond the teachers control? Why is this information not available to the teacher. Teachers get sick all the time and other teachers have to take the class - surely this information is available to them? What if the teacher died tomorrow- would nobody know which students had high/low levels?

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

Again, why is the situation beyond the teachers control? Why is this information not available to the teacher. Teachers get sick all the time and other teachers have to take the class - surely this information is available to them? What if the teacher died tomorrow- would nobody know which students had high/low levels?

Still no examples I see. A pity because it would be a good debate if you did have valid examples.

micropig

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

IEPs are not legally required as EPSEN has never been enacted.

I am getting out of this thread now, as Micro-Pig doesn't seem to have a clue of the day to day running of schools and seems to my mind to be trolling.

Ok so why not introduce IEP's surely it makes sense to know what particular needs children in the school have?


Teachers seem to think that I am only looking at their wages, I'm not I'm looking at the system and the standard of education

micropig

Feeona wrote: »

Still no examples I see. A pity because it would be a good debate if you did have valid examples.

Perfect example provided & I see you don't answer the other questions I posed to you


Edit: Are you saying this is not an issue? No problems in schools regarding students not being able to engage in the work?

#15

micropig wrote: »

Money is needed. Money was provided, money was not spent, children are still in substandard facilities??? No grumble from the union

LINKS ?? Do teachers not have to provide links to back up their point. I have links with suggest another opinion.

Edit: Is it good enough that our 15year olds are average and below average in Maths & Reading?

Firstly, the link is OECD.ORG, download the report yourself. Don't rely on someone else's interpretation or opinion, particularly that of the average education 'reporter' in the national media. Never mind crying about someone not directly linking it.
Secondly, I'm not a teacher.
Thirdly, the DES is in charge of expenditure. Your gripe is with them, not teacher unions. Btw, unions have been banging on about facilities and resources for years. The unspent money was designated for building projects that ended up costing less than the estimates (thanks to the recession). The taxpayer saved money on construction work and you're still complaining? Come off it mate.
You want those savings reinvested in education? Join the queue, everyone does.

Wrt PISA, why are you asking such basic questions? Who in their right mind would tell you that it's fine to be below average? It's not ok. The argument is over what to do about it. We won't be able to address that as long as people keep making side issues the focus of debate (e.g. underspend on construction projects).
All that is still based on the layman's assumption that PISA is the be all and end all of educational assessment.

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

Perfect example provided & I see you don't answer the other questions I posed to you

It's not a perfect example because of circumstances outside the teacher's control. I'm still waiting by the way.

Seeing as it took seven or eight attempts for you to answer my questions, sure I might leave it another while to answer yours.

GaryIrv93

to get students interested in learning, the should be allowed to choose more of their own subjects, and also that schools should have a lot more subjects in the cirriculum rather than be forced to learn those which don't appeal to them. if they could choose their own subjects, they would actually learn them and take interest in them, rather than just sit at the back of the class not paying attention. student's oppinions are the only valid ones to them, not the teachers or anyones else's. personalities need to be taken more into account - accept that a student may not like to learn irish, or not want to learn it - so don't force them to do it - instead allow them to choose another subject which might actually appeal to them, and which THEY think are relevant to them. it's one of the reasons why school is resented by so many young people - you're forced to learn useless facts and formulas that you won't need in life and that wjich don't appeal to you.

In school ''learning'' is all about memorizing what's in the textbook, and then spit it back out in the exam - how can that be called learning, or education?? school is mostly rote memorization of useless facts, disguised by the words ''education'' and ''learning'', so the whole cirriculum should be rethought - introduce more useful subjects in school, such as driving skills and also more sports facilities. give students more freedom in ther own learning.

another idea is to scrap exams and standardised testing - it only stresses students out and it harms their self-esteem and confidence if they fail. instead, base grades on continuous assessement, behavior, attendance, reliability, punctuality, homework quality, and classwork. personalities don't matter in school -anyone can just memorize ****e in a textbook and write it back on the exam , exams seem to test your memory quality instead of actaul knowledge.

micropig

#15 wrote: »

Firstly, the link is OECD.ORG, download the report yourself. Don't rely on someone else's interpretation or opinion, particularly the average journalist. Never mind crying about someone not directly linking it.
Secondly, I'm not a teacher.
Thirdly, the DES is in charge of expenditure. Your gripe is with them, not teacher unions. Btw, unions have been banging on about facilities and resources for years. The unspent money was designated for building projects that ended up costing less than the estimates (thanks to the recession). The taxpayer saved money on construction work and you're still complaining? Come off it mate.
You want those savings reinvested in education? Join the queue, everyone does.

Wrt PISA, why are you asking such basic questions? Who in their right mind would tell you that it's fine to be below average? It's not ok. The argument is over what to do about it. We won't be able to address that as long as people keep making side issues the focus of debate (e.g. underspend on construction projects).
All that is still based on the layman's assumption that PISA is the be all and end all of educational assessment.

I have links to show, that our students cost us more and attain less than a lot of other countries (167th on the list IIRC)

I'm still complaining because students are still going to schools in prefabs & have antiquated equipment.

What do you think are the issues we should be focusing on?

Feeona wrote: »

It's not a perfect example because of circumstances outside the teacher's control. I'm still waiting by the way.

Seeing as it took seven or eight attempts for you to answer my questions, sure I might leave it another while to answer yours.

Ok so it's not an issue then

Edit: Why are the circumstances beyond the teachers control, I'm suggesting they're not, so can you explain how they are?

*Is everyone who is not a teacher a layperson and their opinion on the education system invalid? Because I don't think so

**OOOh tune in to tv3 students talking about the new broad band, more exciting, better than books.....:eek:

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

Ok so it's not an issue then

Edit: Why are the circumstances beyond the teachers control, I'm suggesting they're not, so can you explain how they are?

Thank you for your answer.

Seavill explained the situation perfectly well.

micropig

Feeona wrote: »

Thank you for your answer.

Seavill explained the situation perfectly well.

Ok Then surely they knew before the lesson that the student had low reading levels.

Even if they didn't, surely the lesson was planned to include material to allow all abilities to participate?

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

Ok Then surely they knew before the lesson that the student had low reading lessons.

Even if they didn't, surely the lesson was planned to include material to allow all abilities to participate?

The teacher you were referring to in your 'example' already explained the dynamics of the situation. If you have further questions, I think it would be better if you directed them at him/her.

micropig

Is it the students fault they don't have the ability? or
Is it the teachers fault they did not find this information out?

The Black Oil

Firstly, I'm not a teacher or a parent. I would push the school year into July, but I think that's only worthwhile if it adds value to the curriculum, or takes pressure off of other parts of it or if it had some other benefit. I'll plead ignorance as to the current state of the curriculum, though and then it would put pressure on August...so, I don't know. I'd also look at the CPD aspect, if this is not done enough as it is, I don't know. Courses should not just be something you do to then take a few days off later in the year, not to say that everyone does, I'm sure most do courses for genuine reasons. A friend of mine is a teacher and after our course (2 year Dip (not teaching) he was quite determined to not teach the same way again, such was some of our lecturing experiences. If you're not doing any further qualifications or any CPD (not always practical, I'll grant you), I think questions need to be asked about why you are not upskilling. I'm happy to be corrected on this.

I'd agree with the poster who mentioned meetings at the start of the year for new entrants, it is done in some cases, but maybe not enough. Also agree with religion after school, but that's not going to happen. Re NEWB, do they have any substantial powers? I know of two instances of kids missing more than usual amount of days - their teachers told me 'nothing will happen' despite there being some assigned to work with the family.

Technology and facilities. Hah! Is there much common sense applying here, at all? There was little to no technology in school when I was young, VHS tapes, maybe. Now IWBs and computers are all the rage, grand. Some of that is coming from parents, but I think unless you live with a board or technology in your classroom each day you don't really know what it's like. It's a tool or a resource, but that is all it is. A good teacher will have childrens' ears because of communication skills from the get go, they can vary the day and keep it interesting, not because of a fancy screen.

Computer rooms shouldn't be knocked, either, they are useful. Plenty of schools only have bits of technology because they have to collect Tesco vouchers or fundraise even during the Celtic Tiger, yes. It's all well and good to be dishing out grants for this and that, but a) most schools do not (in my experience) have staff who know enough to the necessary maintenance and they can hardly afford to pay someone X per hour to come in a fix it and b) it's no good giving IT grants unless basic, up to date infrastructure is already in place. Also, this stuff changes so fast, I'm aware of one school whose laptops, of which there are a few, are now sitting in a cupboard because of the introduction of IWBs. Schools also have to fix leaks in the roof, toilets, etc, that should come before technology, imo and you can't have a one size fits all strategy, everyone has different needs. It's useful to roll out broadband and it's great to be technically literate, yes, but let's not go overboard. Websites? These are a modern necessity and somewhat demanded, but again, who really has the time to sit down and update them regularly, in a busy school, no one.

Seniority - needs to be kicked to the kerb re promotions, etc.

I'd like to see kids cooking, though again this isn't always practical.

Prefabs, good jaysus.

micropig

Black Oil wrote: »

I would push the school year into July, but I think that's only worthwhile if it adds value to the curriculum, or takes pressure off of other parts of it or if it had some other benefit.

My issue with re extending the year with the ways things are at the moment. Will having an ineffective teacher for a month longer each year help?

(Although I think extending the school year with effective teachers is a great idea)

Black Oil wrote: »

I'll plead ignorance as to the current state of the curriculum, though and then it would put pressure on August...so, I don't know. I'd also look at the CPD aspect, if this is not done enough as it is, I don't know. Courses should not just be something you do to then take a few days off later in the year, not to say that everyone does, I'm sure most do courses for genuine reasons. A friend of mine is a teacher and after our course (2 year Dip (not teaching) he was quite determined to not teach the same way again, such was some of our lecturing experiences. If you're not doing any further qualifications or any CPD (not always practical, I'll grant you), I think questions need to be asked about why you are not upskilling. I'm happy to be corrected on this.

Agree looking at CPD & Upskilling (Teachers who have not up-skilled should be removed from the profession and teachers with relevant skills given these places)

Black Oil wrote: »

I'd agree with the poster who mentioned meetings at the start of the year for new entrants, it is done in some cases, but maybe not enough. Also agree with religion after school, but that's not going to happen. Re NEWB, do they have any substantial powers? I know of two instances of kids missing more than usual amount of days - their teachers told me 'nothing will happen' despite there being some assigned to work with the family.

+1

Black Oil wrote: »

Technology and facilities. Hah! Is there much common sense applying here, at all? There was little to no technology in school when I was young, VHS tapes, maybe. Now IWBs and computers are all the rage, grand. Some of that is coming from parents, but I think unless you live with a board or technology in your classroom each day you don't really know what it's like. It's a tool or a resource, but that is all it is. A good teacher will have childrens' ears because of communication skills from the get go, they can vary the day and keep it interesting, not because of a fancy screen.

Not sure I agree with this. Different children learn by different techniques and the teacher talking isn't always the best one. Some learn through listening to the teacher, some engage quicker with music, some with pictures, most through doing & correcting, from their peers, some through independent research-All these techniques should be used to support each other

Asking children to research on computers gives them more skills that just having the information. How do students in university research? Should we not be teaching these skills to school children?

Black Oil wrote: »

Computer rooms shouldn't be knocked, either, they are useful. Plenty of schools only have bits of technology because they have to collect Tesco vouchers or fundraise even during the Celtic Tiger, yes. It's all well and good to be dishing out grants for this and that, but a) most schools do not (in my experience) have staff who know enough to the necessary maintenance and they can hardly afford to pay someone X per hour to come in a fix it and b) it's no good giving IT grants unless basic, up to date infrastructure is already in place. Also, this stuff changes so fast, I'm aware of one school whose laptops, of which there are a few, are now sitting in a cupboard because of the introduction of IWBs. Schools also have to fix leaks in the roof, toilets, etc, that should come before technology, imo and you can't have a one size fits all strategy, everyone has different needs. It's useful to roll out broadband and it's great to be technically literate, yes, but let's not go overboard. Websites? These are a modern necessity and somewhat demanded, but again, who really has the time to sit down and update them regularly, in a busy school, no one.

Not knocking computer rooms-Are they equipped with the last computers/facilities?
Why aren't we getting IT professionals to teach IT?
Scientists to teach science etc?
Why didn't we use some of the money to build brand new state of the art facilities?

Because too much of the education budget was being spent on teachers salaries

Black Oil wrote: »

Seniority - needs to be kicked to the kerb re promotions, etc.

I'd like to see kids cooking, though again this isn't always practical.

Prefabs, good jaysus.

Headteacher need to take more responsibility for the standard of teaching in the school

Good jaysus is right!!!

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

Good jaysus is right!!!

Yeah prefabs really do need updating. Too hot on sunny days, too cold in the winter. There's usually a health and safety issue with them too, with nails and what not sticking up out of the floor.

micropig

Feeona wrote: »

Yeah prefabs really do need updating. Too hot on sunny days, too cold in the winter. There's usually a health and safety issue with them too, with nails and what not sticking up out of the floor.

+1

& they're prefabs!!!!:D

Feeona

micropig wrote: »

+1

& they're prefabs!!!!:D

Yeah definitely no getting away from that! :rolleyes::pac:

micropig

Feeona wrote: »

Yeah prefabs really do need updating. Too hot on sunny days, too cold in the winter. There's usually a health and safety issue with them too, with nails and what not sticking up out of the floor.

Do conditions like these give the children the impression that education is important and worth investing in?


I doubt anyone would like working in these conditions