How would you solve the problems in the Education system?

vamos!

I had promised myself that I wouldn't get involved in this thread but I am very afraid of the impression non-teachers are getting by reading it. Can I point out that spending on education (excluding the controversial wage issue) could have been higher during the boom. It wasn't and we can't change that. I have now worked in a number of schools. Most schools have at least some interactive whiteboards. They are great but are hardly revolutionary! Classrooms that do not have interactive boards usually have a data projector. Students are rarely expected to sit for 40 mins. I really do believe that every student needs to learn how to sit and work for 40 mins when required. It is training for the exams. Most teachers have heard of, and do implement differentiation, aspects of peer assessment and AFL. Again, most of micropig's suggestions are actually in practice in classrooms around the country. Ditto for computer literate teachers, school websites etc.

Any parents should be able to tell you that schools offer a very wide variety of extra curricular activities run on a voluntary basis. I don't believe that they should be made compulsory. The goodwill would dissipate and the activities may no longer be enjoyable.

SNAs are not equipment, nor are they general classroom assistants.

The curriculum needs to change in most subjects. We often have no choice but to teach to an outdated, demanding curriculum. A new curriculum could leave time for more active learning.

If pay needs to be cut, it should be cut across the board. Every member of staff needs to be targeted proportionately.

We do not need to introduce the English system of excessive paperwork.

Incompetent teachers should be more closely monitored and gotten rid of if they dont want to or cant improve. I'm also all for a new inspection system. It should inspect the teaching, rather than the reams of paperwork.

We have no more money and need to make do with what we have IT-wise. I would much prefer to see money spent on updating curricula.

seavill

vamos! wrote: »

I had promised myself that I wouldn't get involved in this thread but I am very afraid of the impression non-teachers are getting by reading it. Can I point out that spending on education (excluding the controversial wage issue) could have been higher during the boom. It wasn't and we can't change that. I have now worked in a number of schools. Most schools have at least some interactive whiteboards. They are great but are hardly revolutionary! Classrooms that do not have interactive boards usually have a data projector. Students are rarely expected to sit for 40 mins. I really do believe that every student needs to learn how to sit and work for 40 mins when required. It is training for the exams. Most teachers have heard of, and do implement differentiation, aspects of peer assessment and AFL. Again, most of micropig's suggestions are actually in practice in classrooms around the country. Ditto for computer literate teachers, school websites etc.

Any parents should be able to tell you that schools offer a very wide variety of extra curricular activities run on a voluntary basis. I don't believe that they should be made compulsory. The goodwill would dissipate and the activities may no longer be enjoyable.

SNAs are not equipment, nor are they general classroom assistants.

The curriculum needs to change in most subjects. We often have no choice but to teach to an outdated, demanding curriculum. A new curriculum could leave time for more active learning.

If pay needs to be cut, it should be cut across the board. Every member of staff needs to be targeted proportionately.

We do not need to introduce the English system of excessive paperwork.

Incompetent teachers should be more closely monitored and gotten rid of if they dont want to or cant improve. I'm also all for a new inspection system. It should inspect the teaching, rather than the reams of paperwork.

We have no more money and need to make do with what we have IT-wise. I would much prefer to see money spent on updating curricula.

The best post I have read anywhere on boards in a long long time. Your waiting to respond has obviously paid off

micropig

seavill wrote: »

Ok we will try it a different way as you suggest to take into account you are obviously not the type of learner I am currently aiming my questions at.

Knowing what you know now about the situation, how the information was not available to me for 9am in the morning as would have been ideal, however did not work in practice, and putting yourself in my shoes at that time how would you have done it differently.

And could you respond instead of ignoring my questions in relation to background and I would ask you not to repost the same answer that has been put out numerous times before "would my background make my points any less valid" or something along this line.

We are going around in circles with this-
Why was the information and lesson plans not available to you on the school system?

I'm am not suggesting at all you did not do your/best or a good job

Rough outline of my background:

1st class hounours degree in my chosen field (4years)
Pgce & master in education (18 months)
10 years at management level industry
2years teaching in Ireland
7 years teaching abroad

Anything else I missed? Does this have any bearing on the points I am making?

micropig

micropig wrote: »

my point earlier in the thread - teach the children to be independent researchers, train then where to find & validate relevant information is better than just giving them the information

No flim-flam, please, and no trying to hide in the classroom, with all due respect. You didn't answer the question right the first time around. Are you going to re-read it and have another go?

seavill

micropig wrote: »

We are going around in circles with this-
Why was the information and lesson plans not available to you on the school system?

I'm am not suggesting at all you did not do your/best or a good job

Rough outline of my background:

1st class hounours degree in my chosen field (4years)
Pgce & master in education (18 months)
10 years at management level industry
2years teaching in Ireland
7 years teaching abroad

Anything else I missed? Does this have any bearing on the points I am making?

To be clear you did call me unprepared unmotivated, someone who did not differentiate their lessons so you DID suggest I did not do a good job. No point in lying now about things. I can quote the posts if you so wish.

I asked you what you would have done seen as you have posted numerous times that my lesson was not differentiated enough despite the problems listed in the last post. You did not answer this question

Again I find myself repeating myself to you As I already explained the information and plans were there with the teacher at home where they were working on them as any good teacher would do however been taken to hospital generally you do not ask to stop off on the way to drop off things.

Yes it does have bearing as I now know you are a teacher and have experience in the field which does give weight to your arguments. I did point this out to you a long long time ago that that may be the outcome.

Seen as you asked "anything else I missed" I do have one further question apart from the one at the start of this post. Are you currently teaching in the Irish education system at primary or secondary level or in an education system in another country? Thanks

micropig

vamos! wrote: »

I had promised myself that I wouldn't get involved in this thread but I am very afraid of the impression non-teachers are getting by reading it. Can I point out that spending on education (excluding the controversial wage issue) could have been higher during the boom. It wasn't and we can't change that. I have now worked in a number of schools. Most schools have at least some interactive whiteboards. They are great but are hardly revolutionary! Classrooms that do not have interactive boards usually have a data projector. Students are rarely expected to sit for 40 mins. I really do believe that every student needs to learn how to sit and work for 40 mins when required. It is training for the exams. Most teachers have heard of, and do implement differentiation, aspects of peer assessment and AFL. Again, most of micropig's suggestions are actually in practice in classrooms around the country. Ditto for computer literate teachers, school websites etc.

Any parents should be able to tell you that schools offer a very wide variety of extra curricular activities run on a voluntary basis. I don't believe that they should be made compulsory. The goodwill would dissipate and the activities may no longer be enjoyable.

SNAs are not equipment, nor are they general classroom assistants.

The curriculum needs to change in most subjects. We often have no choice but to teach to an outdated, demanding curriculum. A new curriculum could leave time for more active learning.

If pay needs to be cut, it should be cut across the board. Every member of staff needs to be targeted proportionately.

We do not need to introduce the English system of excessive paperwork.

Incompetent teachers should be more closely monitored and gotten rid of if they dont want to or cant improve. I'm also all for a new inspection system. It should inspect the teaching, rather than the reams of paperwork.

We have no more money and need to make do with what we have IT-wise. I would much prefer to see money spent on updating curricula.

Why afraid ... because I am making valid points
Interactive white boards can be used in a lot of ways, the only limit is the teachers innovation
Spending on education was high enough during the boom-it was badly spent though
How long/ week do teachers spend correcting? Surely if peer/self assessment is in place and students using it properly are trained, this is minimal.

SNA's are vital to supporting students..hence I refered to them as basic equipment

Why across the board. Ineffective teachers need to be got rid of first
Not suggesting excessive paperwork but am beginning to wonder how much paperwork teachers currently do?

+1 update the curriculum, but if the students aren't engaging?? but definitely agree curriculum needs looking at

micropig

seavill wrote: »

To be clear you did call me unprepared unmotivated, someone who did not differentiate their lessons so you DID suggest I did not do a good job. No point in lying now about things. I can quote the posts if you so wish.

I asked you what you would have done seen as you have posted numerous times that my lesson was not differentiated enough despite the problems listed in the last post. You did not answer this question

Again I find myself repeating myself to you As I already explained the information and plans were there with the teacher at home where they were working on them as any good teacher would do however been taken to hospital generally you do not ask to stop off on the way to drop off things.

Yes it does have bearing as I now know you are a teacher and have experience in the field which does give weight to your arguments. I did point this out to you a long long time ago that that may be the outcome.

Seen as you asked "anything else I missed" I do have one further question apart from the one at the start of this post. Are you currently teaching in the Irish education system at primary or secondary level or in an education system in another country? Thanks

What I was really asking you is this:

Is it the students fault that they don't have the ability?
or
Is it the teachers fault they did not get have this information?

I know nothing about the rest of your teaching. I am just refering to this situation you presented

Not answering the last question, might get lynched tomorrow;)

Edit: just to clarify any situations I commented on where presented to me
What can you do if the students won't sit at their desk for 40 mins
What do you do if student can't read the question etc..

These kind of questions horrify me for many reasons

Most issues teachers have presented as behaviour issues so far, I don't think are behaviour issues but teacher issues

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Why afraid ... because I am making valid points
Interactive white boards can be used in a lot of ways, the only limit is the teachers innovation
Spending on education was high enough during the boom-it was badly spent though
How long/ week do teachers spend correcting? Surely if peer/self assessment is in place and students using it properly are trained, this is minimal.

SNA's are vital to supporting students..hence I refered to them as basic equipment

Why across the board. Ineffective teachers need to be got rid of first
Not suggesting excessive paperwork but am beginning to wonder how much paperwork teachers currently do?

+1 update the curriculum, but if the students aren't engaging?? but definitely agree curriculum needs looking at

You keep repeating the same things when people are not disagreeing with you, however you seem to think they are.

To respond to the question in bold:
I am the only teacher in the school teaching 4 subjects. I have completed 4 schemes of work for my subjects ranging from 42 - 49 pages each. This is aside from topic schemes of work for each one and then obviously your lesson plans as well. This is aside from any paperwork I must complete on any students, exam results, obviously we already spoke about correcting, plus as I am a practical teacher I also have paperwork to do with ordering materials, keeping machines up to date, serviced etc. There is probably more but that was just off the top of my head

seavill

micropig wrote: »

What I was really asking you is this:

Is it the students fault that they don't have the ability?
or
Is it the teachers fault they did not get have this information?

I know nothing about the rest of your teaching. I am just refering to this situation you presented

Not answering the last question, might get lynched tomorrow;)

You no nothing about my teaching at all yet have seen fit to criticise me numerous times. I have already said and will AGAIN due to extreme unforeseen circumstances that are really not run of the mill days things were not available. I take issue with you implying that I was blaming the student in some way. Obviously it was in no way the students fault this is a stupid thing to say.

I do not understand the last part I do not see how you might get lynched. I am a current teacher and have posted to you numerous times that I think pay should be cut and holidays shortened, surely this would get me lynched also.

Now you asked did I have any other question I asked one and you again did not answer I would appreciate an answer to be honest.

Thank you for your response

micropig

seavill wrote: »

You keep repeating the same things when people are not disagreeing with you, however you seem to think they are.

To respond to the question in bold:
I am the only teacher in the school teaching 4 subjects. I have completed 4 schemes of work for my subjects ranging from 42 - 49 pages each. This is aside from topic schemes of work for each one and then obviously your lesson plans as well. This is aside from any paperwork I must complete on any students, exam results, obviously we already spoke about correcting, plus as I am a practical teacher I also have paperwork to do with ordering materials, keeping machines up to date, serviced etc. There is probably more but that was just off the top of my head

what I want to know is how much of a teachers week is spet correcting subjects-a common complaint is that correcting takes large amounts of time, so it would be good to clarify how many hours.

Ok so if everyone agrees on the issues the big question is for teachers?
Would you be willing to take a pay cut to improve you conditions.

Our education system is bad and getting worse. Students are achieving less and costing us more to educate. If not suggest another solution & it can't be nothing can be done because there is no money.

You sound very busy and active in the school which is great. If you can prepare your lesson plans in advance, why can't other teachers do the same and leave all in the system so that if some one who doesn't normally teach the class, has to take the class for whatever reason, has access to this?

Do schools have virtual learning environments set up and in use?

Re: your other question It's not relevant. I am only dealing with situations presented to me in the threads? why does it matter where I work?

micropig

micropig wrote: »

Ok so if everyone agrees on the issues the big question is for teachers?
Would you be willing to take a pay cut to improve you conditions.

Any chance of addressing that F grade sometime?

seavill

micropig wrote: »

what I want to know is how much of a teachers week is spet correcting subjects-a common complaint is that correcting takes large amounts of time, so it would be good to clarify how many hours.

Ok so if everyone agrees on the issues the big question is for teachers?
Would you be willing to take a pay cut to improve you conditions.

Our education system is bad and getting worse. Students are achieving less and costing us more to educate. If not suggest another solution & it can't be nothing can be done because there is no money.

You sound very busy and active in the school which is great. If you can prepare your lesson plans in advance, why can't other teachers do the same and leave all in the system so that if some one who doesn't normally teach the class, has to take the class for whatever reason, has access to this?

Do schools have virtual learning environments set up and in use?

I would say time spent correcting depends on the subject I have never added up how long it takes to be honest

OK I'M PUTTING THIS IN BIG LETTERS BECUASE I AM GETTING FRUSTRATED I HAVE POSTED AT LESAT 4 TIMES THAT I BELIVE THERE SHOULD BE A PAY CUT ACROSS THE BOARD AND REDUCED HOLIDAYS. Apologies for the caps.

Personally I find preparing many lesson plans in advance is a waste of time due to school activities, things that interupt lessons etc. I find that one days lesson will lead to the next days lesson plan. The topic scheme will give a general idea on where things should be each day but preparing lesson plans IN MY PERSONAL OPINION well in advance is a waste of time.

Yes my school has virtual learning environments available for all teachers to use. I also use YouTube to produce my own videos for the students and to post other videos I find useful.

micropig

Deleted User wrote: »

Any chance of addressing that F grade sometime?

Already addressed the fish thing. It re-enforces the point I was making earlier.

Can you give me more feedback as to why I got the F?

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Re: your other question It's not relevant. I am only dealing with situations presented to me in the threads? why does it matter where I work?

I disagree that it is irrelevant for example if you teach in another country that is extremely well resources it does explain view points. I am not getting into our system and resources again please.

If you are out of teaching for a number of years it changes things also as a lot of your points may be theory rather than practice that you actually do.

I am not asking for your schools name I just asked do you currently teach in the Irish or education system abroad or are you currently out of the education system.

And can I point out that you got very annoyed when you felt people were not answering the questions you posed originally now you are doing the same

micropig

micropig wrote: »

Can you give me more feedback as to why I got the F?

How much more do you need?

You didn't read the question.

micropig

seavill wrote: »

Personally I find preparing many lesson plans in advance is a waste of time due to school activities, things that interupt lessons etc. I find that one days lesson will lead to the next days lesson plan. The topic scheme will give a general idea on where things should be each day but preparing lesson plans IN MY PERSONAL OPINION well in advance is a waste of time.

Sorry to keep referring to the uk but standard practice there in most schools is to plan at least a week in advance. Then the teacher just tweaks it depending on how the lessons progress. I think this is good. Long & short term planning gives structure & direction to lessons.

If it was standard practice here, you would not have been put in the position of having to stay up have the night planning lessons, without knowledge of the students you where going to teach......

micropig

Deleted User wrote: »

How much more do you need?

You didn't read the question.

Can you ask it again so?
I missed it first time around
Can you present it to me in another format?

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Sorry to keep referring to the uk but standard practice there in most schools is to plan at least a week in advance. Then the teacher just tweaks it depending on how the lessons progress. I think this is good. Long & short term planning gives structure & direction to lessons.

If it was standard practice here, you would not have been put in the position of having to stay up have the night planning lessons, without knowledge of the students you where going to teach......

In my last point I referred to "well in advance" I presumed you were talking about weeks of lesson plans. Obviously lesson plans are done in advance and tweaked as I said when the last lesson lends to tweaking of the next lesson.

Again the context of the situation is being ignored by you the teacher, as I explained, had plans at home but was taken into hospital. Their materials were not available to me from their house as the family had more pressing things to worry about.

seavill

seavill wrote: »

I disagree that it is irrelevant for example if you teach in another country that is extremely well resources it does explain view points. I am not getting into our system and resources again please.

If you are out of teaching for a number of years it changes things also as a lot of your points may be theory rather than practice that you actually do.

I am not asking for your schools name I just asked do you currently teach in the Irish or education system abroad or are you currently out of the education system.

And can I point out that you got very annoyed when you felt people were not answering the questions you posed originally now you are doing the same

can you respond to the above please

micropig

micropig wrote: »

I missed it first time around

But you gave an answer.

micropig

seavill wrote: »

I disagree that it is irrelevant for example if you teach in another country that is extremely well resources it does explain view points. I am not getting into our system and resources again please.

If you are out of teaching for a number of years it changes things also as a lot of your points may be theory rather than practice that you actually do.

I am not asking for your schools name I just asked do you currently teach in the Irish or education system abroad or are you currently out of the education system.

And can I point out that you got very annoyed when you felt people were not answering the questions you posed originally now you are doing the same

Irrelevant where I currently work. The situations I am responding to have been posed by Irish teachers, not issues posed by myself. Does it matter if it is now or 5 years ago I've seen technology used successfully to engage students. It makes the point no less relevant

Anyway, this is the last time I'm answering this nonsense question. IT IS NOT RELEVANT

Guarantee I practice all theory I preach

micropig

Deleted User wrote: »

But you gave an answer.

Yes but you said I still failed:(
I am asking you how I can improve.

micropig

seavill wrote: »

In my last point I referred to "well in advance" I presumed you were talking about weeks of lesson plans. Obviously lesson plans are done in advance and tweaked as I said when the last lesson lends to tweaking of the next lesson.

Again the context of the situation is being ignored by you the teacher, as I explained, had plans at home but was taken into hospital. Their materials were not available to me from their house as the family had more pressing things to worry about.

AGAIN. NO MATTER WHAT THE SITUATION WAS, THE LESSON PLANS & INFORMATION REGARDING STUDENTS ABILITIES SHOULD HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE TO YOU

People get sick, things happen all the time. Why should the student suffer because of it. The lesson plans and IEP's should have been on the system available to you & resources prepared for you in advance by the other teacher, before they took ill. Where they leaving all their preparation until the night before? How do you get resources sorted in time if it is left this late to plan? Their lack of preparation, increased your workload

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Irrelevant where I currently work. The situations I am responding to have been posed by Irish teachers, not issues posed by myself. Does it matter if it is now or 5 years ago I've seen technology used successfully to engage students. It makes the point no less relevant

Anyway, this is the last time I'm answering this nonsense question. IT IS NOT RELEVANT

Guarantee I practice all theory I preach

Ulysses1874 I like your style;)

IF I SAY IT IN CAPS DOES IT MAKE IT TRUE LIKE YOU SEEM TO THINK, I'LL TRY IT

IT IS RELEVANT

Now we shall have to agree to disagree on that one I think.

I think at this stage I will bow to your superior knowledge on all things educational.

And for someone who is trying to give the impression that you are currently teaching you have an awful lot of questions about how much correcting and planning etc that teachers do.
Maybe another way to post would be to say how much you do and then ask people are they in a similar position.

Just an idea but still I am obviously well below you as are all the teachers posting in this thread so I will just go along with whatever you say as gospel at this stage.

Kind regards,
Seavill

seavill

micropig wrote: »

AGAIN. NO MATTER WHAT THE SITUATION WAS, THE LESSON PLANS & INFORMATION REGARDING STUDENTS ABILITIES SHOULD HAVE BEEN AVAILABLE TO YOU

People get sick, things happen all the time. Why should the student suffer because of it. The lesson plans and IEP's should have been on the system available to you & resources prepared for you in advance by the other teacher, before they took ill. Where they leaving all their preparation until the night before? How do you get resources sorted in time if it is left this late to plan? Their lack of preparation, increased your workload

I shall respond to your questions to clear up your misconceptions

The lesson plans and IEP's should have been on the system available to you & resources prepared for you in advance by the other teacher, before they took ill
The lesson plans etc. were prepared by the teacher however they were working on them at home the night they had a heart attack. There is currently no "system" available to that teacher other than their own records and materials.

Edit, apologies for the sarcastic tone of my previous post, its late at night


Where they leaving all their preparation until the night before?
They were not. They were working on their plans like I would suggest, as I'm sure you would, that any good teacher would do before they would go in the next day. As we have discussed previously the "tweaking" that is needed needs to be done at some stage. this particular person was doing it when they were taken ill. This tweaking of lesson plans as we discussed cannot be done weeks in advance.

As discussed the heart attack I referred to is generally not something that people are preparing for when planning a week in school. The person you are insulting, again without knowing the ins and outs, had all their materials and plans done and was getting ready for the next day like any good teacher should. Some things are out of even your control Micropig. God forbid this would happen to you at any stage but again I'm sure you and your family would have more things to be worrying about than 9am class if this were the case

micropig

seavill wrote: »

Ulysses1874 I like your style;)

IF I SAY IT IN CAPS DOES IT MAKE IT TRUE LIKE YOU SEEM TO THINK, I'LL TRY IT

IT IS RELEVANT

Now we shall have to agree to disagree on that one I think.

I think at this stage I will bow to your superior knowledge on all things educational.

And for someone who is trying to give the impression that you are currently teaching you have an awful lot of questions about how much correcting and planning etc that teachers do.
Maybe another way to post would be to say how much you do and then ask people are they in a similar position.

Just an idea but still I am obviously well below you as are all the teachers posting in this thread so I will just go along with whatever you say as gospel at this stage.

Kind regards,
Seavill

Never once suggested that anyone was below me and if you read the first post carefully you will see I asked for all opinions and didn't just want to limit it to people working in education.

The reason I ask the questions is I want a teacher to clarify how much time exactly correcting takes up. I don't think this is too much to ask, as a lot of teachers complain it is a heavy load.

Just because I make suggestions on how teaching can be improved I think teachers are beneath me???????????????

You have not come up with the most basic solutions yourself and I believe it was you who asked about what to do it the child can't read the question?


& you insisted on knowing my background

micropig

seavill wrote: »

I shall respond to your questions to clear up your misconceptions

The lesson plans and IEP's should have been on the system available to you & resources prepared for you in advance by the other teacher, before they took ill
The lesson plans etc. were prepared by the teacher however they were working on them at home the night they had a heart attack. There is currently no "system" available to that teacher other than their own records and materials.


Where they leaving all their preparation until the night before?
They were not. They were working on their plans like I would suggest, as I'm sure you would, that any good teacher would do before they would go in the next day. As we have discussed previously the "tweaking" that is needed needs to be done at some stage. this particular person was doing it when they were taken ill. This tweaking of lesson plans as we discussed cannot be done weeks in advance.

As discussed the heart attack I referred to is generally not something that people are preparing for when planning a week in school. The person you are insulting, again without knowing the ins and outs, had all their materials and plans done and was getting ready for the next day like any good teacher should. Some things are out of even your control Micropig. God forbid this would happen to you at any stage but again I'm sure you and your family would have more things to be worrying about than 9am class if this were the case

Maybe its time so such a system was introduced?? So people like yourself don't get landed with a lot of unexpected work to do?

Lesson plans, usually have to be tweaked as the class proceeds


Somethings are out of our control and somethings are within our control. Why should 30x9 students miss out because 1 teacher is ill?

*Just seen the other thread where a teacher is wondering what the hell is going on in primary schools-interesting eh?

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Never once suggested that anyone was below me and if you read the first post carefully you will see I asked for all opinions and didn't just want to limit it to people working in education.

The reason I ask the questions is I want a teacher to clarify how much time exactly correcting takes up. I don't think this is too much to ask, as a lot of teachers complain it is a heavy load.

Just because I make suggestions on how teaching can be improved I think teachers are beneath me???????????????

You have not come up with the most basic solutions yourself and I believe it was you who asked about what to do it the child can't read the question?


& you insisted on knowing my background

OK you asked me I responded now I ask you how much time do you spend correcting for your classes??????

No your suggestions do not make you seem that you are above others your responses to peoples posts make this seem the case, particularly your insulting ones.

I posed a question based on your response to me. I did not say that I could not come up with the basic solution. I just did what you seem so keen on doing which was posed a question to you to get a varied response (without giving the answer in the first place, great teaching technique for all those not up on the current techniques like myself and Micropig)

micropig

seavill wrote: »

OK you asked me I responded now I ask you how much time do you spend correcting for your classes??????

No your suggestions do not make you seem that you are above others your responses to peoples posts make this seem the case, particularly your insulting ones.

I posed a question based on your response to me. I did not say that I could not come up with the basic solution. I just did what you seem so keen on doing which was posed a question to you to get a varied response (without giving the answer in the first place, great teaching technique for all those not up on the current techniques like myself and Micropig)

Sorry can you quote exactly where I am being insulting?

So time spent correcting is not an issue for teachers then?
I made my views perfectly clear in the other thread and wanted to get other people opinions and thoughts before I influenced them with my own

Edit: I spend about 2-3 hours a week correcting

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Maybe its time so such a system was introduced?? So people like yourself don't get landed with a lot of unexpected work to do?

Lesson plans, usually have to be tweaked as the class proceeds


Somethings are out of our control and somethings are within our control. Why should 30x9 students miss out because 1 teacher is ill?

*Just seen the other thread where a teacher is wondering what the hell is going on in primary schools-interesting eh?

A great suggestion to be honest maybe some system should be set up for that purpose. Only problem there is our fantastic internet systems in schools can cause issues there daily :P

Lesson plans do not get tweaked the lesson gets tweaked. Afterwards the plan gets reviewed and tweaked for future reference.

In all fairness you are being very harsh putting blame on a teacher who has a heart attack. These things happen it is called life. Obviously, and again, we are talking about an extreme here

micropig

seavill wrote: »

A great suggestion to be honest maybe some system should be set up for that purpose. Only problem there is our fantastic internet systems in schools can cause issues there daily :P

Lesson plans do not get tweaked the lesson gets tweaked. Afterwards the plan gets reviewed and tweaked for future reference.

In all fairness you are being very harsh putting blame on a teacher who has a heart attack. These things happen it is called life. Obviously, and again, we are talking about an extreme here

I'm sorry the teacher had a heart attack etc, but I am suggesting it is within our control to stop what happen to you happening again

micropig

micropig wrote: »

Yes but you said I still failed:(
I am asking you how I can improve.

And, WADR, I keep telling you; by reading the question and then addressing it.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse. It's just that so many people in life (not just students) make this mistake, whether in exams, or job interviews, or when asked questions at work. They give answers - sometimes brilliantly constructed, sometimes not so - to questions they weren't asked, and in so doing they fail to answer the question they were asked.

So it is worth labouring the point.


The question was:

Deleted User wrote: »

€500 million saved from the teacher pay bill. What would it be spent on?

[....]

If we, the guv'ment, lopped €500 million off teacher pay, what would the money be spent on?

The answer you gave was:

micropig wrote: »

1st)get rid of all prefabs. Schools with a high percentage of prefabs get bulldozed first and a state of the art, suitable for purpose building replaces it. Then work on the other schools.
2nd) Improve basic equipment in other schools to ensure all schools are of a high standard.

Once basic facilities have been improved, start improving other facilities. Bring computers & other technology in to the classroom & get the students using them

4th) keep improving

basic equipment includes sna's etc

Second time around, I've stripped out most of the words in my original post, to leave the core question there to be read without distraction.

Twice.

Given the opportunity to reflect and to answer again, what's your answer?

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Sorry can you quote exactly where I am being insulting?

So time spent correcting is not an issue for teachers then?
I made my views perfectly clear in the other thread and wanted to get other people opinions and thoughts before I influenced them with my own

Edit: I spend about 2-3 hours a week correcting

I will find the exact posts tomorrow (it is very late now to be going back over numerous pages) if you wish, in general I am referring to the ones where you called me unmotivated, lazy, and implied that i was not able to differentiate my lessons, I find this insulting, we have discussed this already.

When did I say that time spent correcting is not an issue for teachers? I don't remember saying this. all I did was ask you how long you spend correcting.
I suggested that this may be a way of posting instead of all questions as you have managed to get the back up of numerous teachers by the way you posted certain things so I was just putting a suggestion forward.

As I said I have never even thought of adding up the time I spend correcting. The week after the holidays I will do this and get back to you. it will be interesting, however I have never found it an overbearing workload, however this may be due to my subject combination, it may be for some people, and as you have pointed out they may not be doing it correctly like you and I:D

rainbowtrout

micropig wrote: »

Sorry to keep referring to the uk but standard practice there in most schools is to plan at least a week in advance. Then the teacher just tweaks it depending on how the lessons progress. I think this is good. Long & short term planning gives structure & direction to lessons.

If it was standard practice here, you would not have been put in the position of having to stay up have the night planning lessons, without knowledge of the students you where going to teach......

micropig, you're doing a seriously good job of trolling the T&L forum.

This is not the UK where from what you've posted about yourself is where you got your teaching qualification (PGCE you said) and spent the majority of your time teaching.

A few things about the Irish system:

We do not have to hand in lesson plans on a weekly basis. I don't write out lesson plans. I have in my diary the topics and material and practicals etc that I want to teach that week, month etc. You'll probably find there are many teachers who operate in a similar manner.
There is no 'system' in schools where all teachers upload their lesson plans - I'd say schools that have this are few and far between.
Technology is improving but has a long way to go yet, UK schools in comparison get truckloads of resources. My school has 1 IWB. I only discovered it when I was supervising in a classroom about 2 years ago. I asked the teacher who is mainly based there when it appeared. She told me she saw it in the principal's office, asked about it, and he said 'It's been there ages and no one has asked for it, so if you want it, it's yours' Or something to that effect. No one knew it even existed.

Information on students again on the 'system' varies hugely from school to school. Some provide loads of easily accessible information and some provide little or none. In the situation seavill has so clearly explained, if a teacher is rushed into hospital they are not going to say 'Hold the ambulance I need to send an email to the as yet unknown sub who will be taking my classes tomorrow with my lesson plans attached' If you are given classes at short notice you will do your best to organise work for the lesson, there's usually no time to get information on individual students. Often subs land into a school in the morning and the first time they find out what they should be teaching is when they walk into the classroom and ask the students what they did the previous day.

I'm not suggesting that any of this is perfect but if you're going to have a rant on the Irish education system at least make some comments about what exists rather than ranting on about bulldozing prefabs and IWBs for all. It's not going to happen.

micropig

Deleted User wrote: »

And, WADR, I keep telling you; by reading the question and then addressing it.

I'm not being deliberately obtuse. It's just that so many people in life (not just students) make this mistake, whether in exams, or job interviews, or when asked questions at work. They give answers - sometimes brilliantly constructed, sometimes not so - to questions they weren't asked, and in so doing they fail to answer the question they were asked.

So it is worth labouring the point.


The question was:




The answer you gave was:




Second time around, I've stripped out most of the words in my original post, to leave the core question there to be read without distraction.

Twice.

Given the opportunity to reflect and to answer again, what's your answer?

Ok if I add ideally spent on the following before my last answer?
I never suggested it be spent on anything other than the education system

Don't bring the banks etc in to this

Or do I still fail?
What do you suggest it be spent on?

micropig

rainbowtrout wrote: »

micropig, you're doing a seriously good job of trolling the T&L forum.

This is not the UK where from what you've posted about yourself is where you got your teaching qualification (PGCE you said) and spent the majority of your time teaching.

A few things about the Irish system:

We do not have to hand in lesson plans on a weekly basis. I don't write out lesson plans. I have in my diary the topics and material and practicals etc that I want to teach that week, month etc. You'll probably find there are many teachers who operate in a similar manner.
There is no 'system' in schools where all teachers upload their lesson plans - I'd say schools that have this are few and far between.
Technology is improving but has a long way to go yet, UK schools in comparison get truckloads of resources. My school has 1 IWB. I only discovered it when I was supervising in a classroom about 2 years ago. I asked the teacher who is mainly based there when it appeared. She told me she saw it in the principal's office, asked about it, and he said 'It's been there ages and no one has asked for it, so if you want it, it's yours' Or something to that effect. No one knew it even existed.

Information on students again on the 'system' varies hugely from school to school. Some provide loads of easily accessible information and some provide little or none. In the situation seavill has so clearly explained, if a teacher is rushed into hospital they are not going to say 'Hold the ambulance I need to send an email to the as yet unknown sub who will be taking my classes tomorrow with my lesson plans attached' If you are given classes at short notice you will do your best to organise work for the lesson, there's usually no time to get information on individual students. Often subs land into a school in the morning and the first time they find out what they should be teaching is when they walk into the classroom and ask the students what they did the previous day.

I'm not suggesting that any of this is perfect but if you're going to have a rant on the Irish education system at least make some comments about what exists rather than ranting on about bulldozing prefabs and IWBs for all. It's not going to happen.

Your post highlights why our education may be failing.
You only discovered the IBW:eek:
Why not try to improve the Irish system. Why call anyone who makes suggestions trolls?
Not hold the ambulance-never suggested this
What exists???????????read the title of the thread it says how would you improve

*I am beginning to wonder about teachers' reading & comprehension levels
EDIT: Who do you think the teacher has to hand in the lesson plans to?? They are for the teachers own benefit & should be on the system in case the teacher drops dead so their colleague isn't landed with an unexpected workload which needs to be done asap

seavill

Micropig, I think rainbowtrout's point was more to do with maybe the suggestions made should be as realistic as possible rather than just aspirational ones.

For example if I were the minister and got and extra 500 million like someone suggested (although I agree prefabs are a disaster) the most pressing issues are the withdrawal of resource hours, SNA's for students who desperately need one, cuts to traveler education, cuts to guidance hours (HUGE ISSUE IMO) If it were me these things are the major issues to be dealt with first before money is spent on other things.

not saying that schools don't need to be built or resources don't need to be provided, I think they do, but having too few teachers and resource hours and guidance hours but being in a lovely new building, does not really level up

micropig

micropig wrote: »

Ok if I add ideally spent on the following before my last answer?

You weren't asked to re-write the question, you were asked to answer the question.

But at least now you may have some inkling of why you got your F.

The pass answer is:

The money would be spent on nothing.

Learn that off by heart and you'll scrape by with a D. I'll do up a worksheet for the honours students tomorrow.

seavill

Deleted User wrote: »

Learn that off by heart and you'll scrape by with a D. I'll do up a worksheet for the honours students tomorrow.

Make sure you do several worksheets and that they are differentiated to take into account all your students or Micropig will be giving out again tomorrow night:p

rainbowtrout

micropig wrote: »

Your post highlights why our education may be failing.
You only discovered the IBW:eek:
Why not try to improve the Irish system. Why call anyone who makes suggestions trolls?
Not hold the ambulance-never suggested this
What exists???????????read the title of the thread it says how would you improve

*I am beginning to wonder about teachers' reading & comprehension levels

Yes, I discovered it. I have no business being in this classroom from one end of the year to the other so how was I supposed to know there was a IWB in it? Nobody else knew either.

I wouldn't mind but I teach IT (not just word, email, but programming, computer architecture) so I am well capable of using any technology I'm provided with. Half my hours are IT yet I had to beg for 2-3 years for a data projector for my computer room. It was one of the last rooms to be provided with one and I would probably use it more than most. Go figure.

There are plenty of teachers who are more than happy to integrate any resources they may be provided with, but they are not always made available to them and by the time some money becomes available for IT resources, computers need to be upgraded etc and the money is just swallowed up.

micropig

seavill wrote: »

Micropig, I think rainbowtrout's point was more to do with maybe the suggestions made should be as realistic as possible rather than just aspirational ones.

For example if I were the minister and got and extra 500 million like someone suggested (although I agree prefabs are a disaster) the most pressing issues are the withdrawal of resource hours, SNA's for students who desperately need one, cuts to traveler education, cuts to guidance hours (HUGE ISSUE IMO) If it were me these things are the major issues to be dealt with first before money is spent on other things.

not saying that schools don't need to be built or resources don't need to be provided, I think they do, but having too few teachers and resource hours and guidance hours but being in a lovely new building, does not really level up

I refereed to SNA's as basic equipment in the classroom-It should go without saying that these are vital. Ok put them number 1 on my list.

rainbowtrout

seavill wrote: »

Micropig, I think rainbowtrout's point was more to do with maybe the suggestions made should be as realistic as possible rather than just aspirational ones.

For example if I were the minister and got and extra 500 million like someone suggested (although I agree prefabs are a disaster) the most pressing issues are the withdrawal of resource hours, SNA's for students who desperately need one, cuts to traveler education, cuts to guidance hours (HUGE ISSUE IMO) If it were me these things are the major issues to be dealt with first before money is spent on other things.

not saying that schools don't need to be built or resources don't need to be provided, I think they do, but having too few teachers and resource hours and guidance hours but being in a lovely new building, does not really level up

That's exactly what I'm saying. We've survived in prefabs for a long time, a few more years won't make a difference. Obviously in some cases they do need to be urgently replaced but some schools would prefer to make do with the building they have so that they could keep resource hours or buy a few computer or whatever. As was mentioned early on in this thread, some schools find it difficult just to cover the heating bills.

micropig

Deleted User wrote: »

You weren't asked to re-write the question, you were asked to answer the question.

But at least now you may have some inkling of why you got your F.

The pass answer is:

The money would be spent on nothing.

Learn that off by heart and you'll scrape by with a D. I'll do up a worksheet for the honours students tomorrow.

So by your logic, nothing should be done. We should continue to watch standards fall and be happy with it?

Gbear

I think there are real problems with the education system that are rarely mentioned.
I'll leave the questions of sufficient salaries, pensions, class sizes and so on to economists and teachers themselves, who both have a better understanding of those issues.

At a more fundamental level, I think the entire education system, as I experienced it, was at best just about adequate but in large parts missing the point.

I have a huge problem with the curriculum which seems to focus too much on trivia and not enough on practical skills.

I like the concept of CSPE class, for example, but I think it's far more important than it's current role and it should be dramatically expanded to be a cornerstone of education.

Practical skills required by adults: Cooking, cleaning, budgeting, driving, sewing, basic first aid, finding a job - are real skills that are used all the time in the real world but are left by the wayside in the education system. It should be mandatory in some form from the day a child arrives in secondary school right through to leaving cert.
I don't think most trainee engineers will make much use of WB Yeats but they all would benefit from being able to drive, eat healthily or fix the button on their trousers without help from Mammy.

How many college students go away completely incapable of taking care of themselves? A better education about nutrition and actual affordable solutions to families with low income and poor diet could do a great deal of good to our impending health crisis.

Another fundamental skill that so many lack is critical thinking and it just isn't there in education. In fact it's the total opposite.
There seems to be so much in education based on received wisdom and tradition and in a supposedly enlightened age I think we need to have a more evidence based form of teaching and really shake the foundations of an institution that regardless of fancy gadgets or shiny sports facilities, is still fundamentally backwards IMO.

I think that more than just laying the groundwork for your future occupation, school, from Junior Infants to Leaving cert should be about creating a person who's self sufficient and useful to society and I think it's failing at that when there's really no need.

seavill

micropig wrote: »

So by your logic, nothing should be done. We should continue to watch standards fall and be happy with it?

:rolleyes::D:rolleyes::D:rolleyes::D:rolleyes:

micropig

Deleted User wrote: »

You weren't asked to re-write the question, you were asked to answer the question.

But at least now you may have some inkling of why you got your F.

The pass answer is:

The money would be spent on nothing.

Learn that off by heart and you'll scrape by with a D. I'll do up a worksheet for the honours students tomorrow.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's exactly what I'm saying. We've survived in prefabs for a long time, a few more years won't make a difference. Obviously in some cases they do need to be urgently replaced but some schools would prefer to make do with the building they have so that they could keep resource hours or buy a few computer or whatever. As was mentioned early on in this thread, some schools find it difficult just to cover the heating bills.

More money put in to resources & equipment - money comes from teachers salaries?

Schools have no heating/resources because most of the education budget is spent on teachers wages and not on resources

micropig

seavill wrote: »

:rolleyes::D:rolleyes::D:rolleyes::D:rolleyes:

Yes but not all the suggestions I made cost money if you have a read back;)

seavill

micropig wrote: »

More money put in to resources & equipment - money comes from teachers salaries?

Schools have no heating/resources because most of the education budget is spent on teachers wages and not on resources

How many times have you said this so far?? answers will be put on your worksheets in the next class or you can research the answer yourself as an individual learner in an active way:p

seavill

micropig wrote: »

Yes but not all the suggestions I made cost money if you have a read back;)

HAHAHA how can you come up with that answer to my smilies, just brilliant

micropig

seavill wrote: »

How many times have you said this so far?? answers will be put on your worksheets in the next class or you can research the answer yourself as an individual learner in an active way:p

Do you critise the suggestions and answers of your students in the same way?

From a teacher who wondered what to do if the child couldn't read:rolleyes:

My reply to your smiles include the post the smiles where about