The "I Quit SWTOR Thread"

Inquitus

Kirby wrote: »

It's way bigger than 5%. Leveling is quick....some of the quickest I've seen in an MMO and its been out for 6 or 7 weeks at this stage. You only have to visit the fleet at peak time to notice it.

Aye depending how much you dally its 5-7 days played to get to cap. So if you averaged 4 hours a day since launch you'd be there or thereabouts.

Shiminay

Yea, I'd say you're right tbh, I've seen plenty of 50s floating around the fleet on my server (Trask Ulgo), but wasn't sure if that was representative of the greater population.

TheDoc

Anyone wrote: »

Cant remember where I read it or how long ago, but purely from a money/profit pov, wasnt it shown that hardcore(ie ensidia types) players reprsented such a small % of the gaming community that it didnt affect profits at all?

I mean....WoW is based primarily on keeping the casual player happy now.

While the actual percentage of " hardcore endgame raiders" is small, it has a massive spiralling effect.

The field has changed a bit in terms of the worlds finest guilds, there has been a few new additions and some have gone away. But they have a massive impact downstream.

The tactics that they use, filters down to be used by everyone else.
The mods and addons they use, filter down to be used by everyone else
The spec that you go read on mmo and elitist jerks, comes from these guys
The classes that are flavour of the month, come from these guys busting meters with them

And there is a host more.

Now with the advent of streams and social media, they have a massive following and a massive influence. It's also noticably in lets say Towliees stream. He is argueably the biggest mmo streamer with between 2-3k viewers for up to 10 hours, and he streams every single day.

As he ahs voiced his issues with Swtor and how he feels a little aggreviaed by the game, how he wont roll an alt till they fix it, and he just logs on for raids...you can notice a large portion of his chat and viewers are moving away from Swtor and back to WoW. He does chat vote for what he does on some days and more often then not wow is winning out.

The bottom line

While the worlds best pve players are a tiny fractional percentage, the impact they have affects the game for anyone who steps foot in a dungeon or raid, and also on the nerfs, buffs and design changes that come into the game from Blizz.

Anyone

I'm not discounting what the hard core % do for mmo's. I played and raided in WoW since launch, and prior to that I played EQ. I never classed myself as a hard core player,but I did raid 3 nights a week and I did use their guides/tactics etc.

My point is, and I guess this is primarily aimed at WoW since thats the game all others are judged by, that the games are being dumbed down to facilitate the casual player. More people happy=more subs, more subs=more profit.

This is something I disagree with by the way, for me personally it removes the sense of acheivement from mmo's and especially raids.


I'm taking my time with SWTOR, I have 2 classes I'm levelling right now, a Sorc and a Merc. And I have to say, I'm enjoying it, the levelling experience is a breath of fresh air, but that may because I was so used to and burnt out from WoW that the new style(storyline/cutscene) has so far proved to be an enjoyable experience.

witless1

I think you are giving the hardcore end game raiders (derived primarily from WoW) waaaaaay too much credit Doc. Sure they are effectively the beta testers of end game content and they help designers fix bugs and things like that. If they stopped playing in the morning another tier of players / guilds would step in and replace them. The hardcore element might be a small circle but they have a wider ranging impact then most but they are replaceable. Tactics would still filter down, class discussion and spec theorycrafting would similarly filter down. Forums, blogs, youtube and any other social medium you care to name opens that avenue up to everyone.

I can theorycraft a WoL log better then most people but I am not an elitist or in the hardcore bracket. Nothing stopping me blogging about it or posting the info within my guild. The impact percentage might be very very low but WoW and other MMOs by extension are a community game with various degrees of circles. Any guild that I have been in has adapted tactics based on Point of View reports, general boss strategies and personal experience. It's at that level that it genuinely matters, the impact circle in that case is very significant as it drives the game on for a group of players. I don't think I have ever played a spec (or game) based on "the hardcore" persons opinion, it is a factor but not a game breaking one for the majority of players. I certainly have encountered enough players with game knowledge that a hardcore player would be envious of and their impact on me, and their small guild community, is far greater then Ensidia or Elitist Jerks. That's not an isolated scenario and it is something that every guild has an aspect of. So remove the top level go to guys for info and it won't have the game shattering impact that most believe it will have. SWTOR will do just fine without them, sure it will hamper it initially and it is a cause and effect of the design decisions made by BioWare.

The reason the hardcore feel alienated in SWTOR has to do with the list you made out. They cannot work on mods, the end game content is buggy so their tactics aren't transferable and they cannot derive spec / rotation observations because the tools aren't present.

Massive oversight from BioWare? Yes it is and it has been talked to death both here and in every major gaming discussion forum in the world.

Reason to get stroppy and move back to WoW? Sure it's a reason for them because they thrive on being the elite of the elite. For the vast majority of people their decisions won't impact at all. The few thousand people that watch someones stream might be influenced by his decision but how many will vote with their feet and abandon the game?

The arguments put forward for the problems and issues with SWTOR are way too numerous to refute for any sane person. I see the flaws, probably more personally then others seems I genuinely cannot level because of a crippling client bug. Overlooking the flaws I do see potential for the game. The class styles feel fresh, some class mechanics are not present in WoW and there is enough of a feel to the game that I would like to explore end game. The people who have left might not truly have gotten over WoW and are using it rightly or wrongly as the yardstick to measure up against. From a personal point of view, I class you and probably the majority of the lads in Drammatic in that bracket seems I know the majority of ye. The ironic thing is most of the people in that guild were the same people that bitched and moaned about WoW gone to ****, having nothing to do and having nothing innovative in a long time. The thing with WoW is its a "safe" MMO from years of iterations, mistakes and subscriber feedback so its nice to fall back on. It's easier to gear with raids now even easier then ever before, PVP gearing is similarly easy and leveling alts is a breeze (direct contrast in all respects to SWTOR). The majority in this forum who love SWTOR or bash SWTOR will probably still buy MoP purely for that safe factor, play it for a few months and then go into a strop again about WoW gone to ****. Only this time Titan is the new saviour.

God MMO releases are a viscous cycle

KoKane

I played SWTOR for a bit.

Got to level 45 a couple of days before the patch there that everyone unsubbed over.




I liked the dialogue stuff in this game, but honestly, its just another Fast Food MMO to be digested by the masses.

There is nothing actually new in the game that cant be found in other MMO's, other than the "skin" or "texture pack".



I'm not really knocking these cash cows, because I know I'll be flamed for it, but once you've played Darkfall Online and can see its potential and experience its best features, its very hard to play any other MMO that doesnt have similar features.

Shame about Darkfalls current population and how it got there. A new update is in the works for a while now. Guess we'll just wait and see.

I'll be continuing to play LoL and maybe treat myself to a shiny new Fast Food MMO to chew on for a few weeks/months before quitting it.

Kirby

KoKane wrote: »

I like the dialogue stuff in this game

KoKane wrote: »

There is nothing actually new in the game that cant be found in other MMO's, other than the "skin" or "texture pack".

Hmm. Because every MMO has story and cutscenes and voice acting for every quest and an individual storyline for each of the eight classes.

You are right. Nothing new.

Nody

Kirby wrote: »

Hmm. Because every MMO has story and cutscenes and voice acting for every quest and an individual storyline for each of the eight classes.

You are right. Nothing new.

Only thing new there is the cut scenes honestly and that's with out even looking around and even that's hardpressed to be called new after the scripted events of WoW...

Kiith

Nody wrote: »

Only thing new there is the cut scenes honestly and that's with out even looking around and even that's hardpressed to be called new after the scripted events of WoW...

To be fair, there are a half dozen scripted events in Warcraft (maybe a few more now). TOR is fully voice acted, for every single NPC. That's a pretty massive feature, and i find it tough to go back to pages and pages of text in other MMO's.

Venom

Kiith wrote: »

To be fair, there are a half dozen scripted events in Warcraft (maybe a few more now). TOR is fully voice acted, for every single NPC. That's a pretty massive feature, and i find it tough to go back to pages and pages of text in other MMO's.

Having full voice work is cool when its in addition to lots of other great content and features but when its the only good thing about a game as is the case with SWTOR, the end product is going to have major problems.

Graphics, combat controls, UI, social activities, tiered end game and group content, character customization and PvP are not only done poorly in SWTOR but are so basic when compared to games released almost a decade ago it becomes almost insulting being expected to pay a monthly sub for it.

KoKane

Kirby wrote: »

Hmm. Because every MMO has story and cutscenes and voice acting for every quest and an individual storyline for each of the eight classes.

You are right. Nothing new.

Ok you didnt understand my post mate.


I liked the dialogue I said, all that voice acting and cutscenes. Its the only thing I liked really.

Its the same with every MMO that comes out. Each one has one little/big feature that it brings to the MMO world, that we can add on to the list of "imagine an MMO with all of these games features combined"


So much development time must have gone into the Dialogues that the rest of the game suffered. Most "zones" (that word goes against the very essence of what an MMO should be, by todays meaning of the word) were literally... literally! walled off.
The "capital cities" were identical for **** sake.
Some of the zones were really nice and some were absolutely dire (thats the case in a lot of games so np)



I mean, people these days still believe they get through a game faster once they get their mount.... Never actually realizing the maps increase in size and the amount of travelling around you do stays roughly the same. Its all calculated.

Anyway, I dont hate the game. I had a couple of things I like but its still a crime against MMO's since it recycles the whole "instanced areas" idea and most of the other generic ingredients we see today.


The thing is, whos to blame for the "It'll do" attitude that develops in the game industry now? The developers for doing it or the people for paying the money when asked.

KoKane

Kiith wrote: »

To be fair, there are a half dozen scripted events in Warcraft (maybe a few more now). TOR is fully voice acted, for every single NPC. That's a pretty massive feature, and i find it tough to go back to pages and pages of text in other MMO's.

In the old days.. there werent any quests. Nothing like today anyway.


I think the MMO industry will split into two type of categorys in the future.


One on side you will have the games like SWTOR, WOW, AION etc.
They will try to take players on a guided tour through a beautiful world for you to experience.
They are kind of the same in many ways (but have their distinct differences ofcourse). They are basically Multiplayer Co-Op games that players join forces to combat A.I. and socialize casually in the safety of their instances.
Steady populations. Probably the larger subscriber numbers than the below category.

On the other side you will have games like Darkfall, UO, EvE etc.
These are the ones that will place players in a world for them to construct or destroy.
They are mostly similar in how they demand a players attention but will offer many different styles of play within the world.
More likely to contain harsh communities and thus have a far more different social feeling than the other MMO's.
Fluctuating populations, more harsh enviroments.
Probably less subscribers in total compared to the other category.

Anyone

KoKane wrote: »

In the old days.. there werent any quests. Nothing like today anyway.

I still remember the days of forming your group, camp checks, dodging trains, and grinding out levels. When the group wasnt available it was quadkiting nightstalkers. Lol.....as much as I look at it now very fondly, theres now way I could do that again

Eoin247

It's a great single player game, but that'sit unfortunately. Compared to wow it doesn't feel much like an mmo probably because of the cutscenes? (i do like the cutscenes for the mostpart though)

Gummy Panda

I've got bored of it so cancelled my sub yesterday. I still have some performance issues and bugs. Voss was really **** and feels like everything after Act 1 was thrown together.

I stopped logging in so thought it was time to quit.

witless1

Still having my client issues and it took an amazing 10 days for them to reply to my last email. The level of tech support offered is actually depressing, I was basically told the issue is with my RAM because a certain memory prefix appeared within a number of my crash reports so they put 1 and 1 together. It took me literally 10 seconds to open a new tab, type in the memory prefix + swtor and find a half dozen links. Even going to the official forums and searching for it pulled up more topics. I'm not holding my breath on them arriving at a fix but the issue I have, hundreds of others have it. My average session without a crash is 10 mins, 15 mins max. I'm in a situation where I won't be looking to renew beyond my 60 day time card (a gift thankfully) not because I don't like the game, simply because I cannot play the game.

/frustrated

Eoin247

witless1 wrote: »

Still having my client issues and it took an amazing 10 days for them to reply to my last email. The level of tech support offered is actually depressing, I was basically told the issue is with my RAM because a certain memory prefix appeared within a number of my crash reports so they put 1 and 1 together. It took me literally 10 seconds to open a new tab, type in the memory prefix + swtor and find a half dozen links. Even going to the official forums and searching for it pulled up more topics. I'm not holding my breath on them arriving at a fix but the issue I have, hundreds of others have it. My average session without a crash is 10 mins, 15 mins max. I'm in a situation where I won't be looking to renew beyond my 60 day time card (a gift thankfully) not because I don't like the game, simply because I cannot play the game.

/frustrated

If you cannot play due to technical difficulties then they probably will extend your game time.

witless1

Eoin247 wrote: »

If you cannot play due to technical difficulties then they probably will extend your game time.

My initial ticket is open 43 days and counting with this, lost the first free month effectively. Certainly lost the first 2 weeks playing with queues on disconnect! While getting free time would be nice I'd just be happy to play the game uninterrupted.

aN.Droid

Just to update my previous post, I got a refund the other day for the cost of the game from origin. This was almost two months after buying the game and playing daily for the first 3 weeks.

If anyone else is very disappointed with the game I advise they do as I have done and get a refund.

Dustaz

Doc, you're almost right but you're actually wrong.

The hardcore elements of wow, the ensdias and the paragons merely represent the wider community. The reason these guys get the airtime they get on forums and on newsites is becuase there is such a large community that has the tools to emulate them and keep up with them. People dont get swayed by them as much as they do the idea of them. They are figureheads for the idea of end game raiding.

There is no such equavalent in swtor for a couple of reasons, first and foremost is that its not as good a game so less people care. secondly, there is precisely zero community due to biowares decision to not allow stuff like addons and the atrocious mess they made of the server forums.

witless1 wrote: »

The people who have left might not truly have gotten over WoW and are using it rightly or wrongly as the yardstick to measure up against. From a personal point of view, I class you and probably the majority of the lads in Drammatic in that bracket seems I know the majority of ye. The ironic thing is most of the people in that guild were the same people that bitched and moaned about WoW gone to ****, having nothing to do and having nothing innovative in a long time. The thing with WoW is its a "safe" MMO from years of iterations, mistakes and subscriber feedback so its nice to fall back on.

We bitched and moaned about wow because we were bored with it. Like it or not SWTOR is wow in space. Its basically the same game, the only difference being the levelling experience. Once thats over, its just not as good as wow. not even close. If people are bored with wow, they arent going to stay in something thats not as good.

Everyone will be back to wow for mop probably and quit soon after. Your right, titan is the only thing that can save us!

bombs away

Dustaz wrote: »

titan is the only thing that can save us!

I'm putting my money on Guild Wars 2

ShadowHearth

well just cancelled my sub. :rolleyes:

i got up to level 32 on my imperial agent, sort of sad to see it go now, but i cant justify a 12eu per month sub on a game i play once a week.


its a good game, but i guess i just burned out of all mmorpgs. I would kill for that feeling that i had when i played WoW for the first time. when i was going for quest, i was going for advanture and exploration. Now its: "yup, just shut up and point me at what 10 or who 10 to kill".

i dont think its SWTOR problem, its just magic of mmorpgs is gone.

Nody

ShadowHearth wrote: »

well just cancelled my sub. :rolleyes:

i got up to level 32 on my imperial agent, sort of sad to see it go now, but i cant justify a 12eu per month sub on a game i play once a week.


its a good game, but i guess i just burned out of all mmorpgs. I would kill for that feeling that i had when i played WoW for the first time. when i was going for quest, i was going for advanture and exploration. Now its: "yup, just shut up and point me at what 10 or who 10 to kill".

i dont think its SWTOR problem, its just magic of mmorpgs is gone.

That's the first MMO experience talking m8; most MMOers go through it. The first one is always special; the rest are just another game and you become cynical and bitter like the rest of us :P

Kirby

Nody wrote: »

That's the first MMO experience talking m8; most MMOers go through it. The first one is always special; the rest are just another game and you become cynical and bitter like the rest of us :P

It's why alot of people always compare or go back to wow. It's not that vanilla was stellar, it wasn't......but it was alot of peoples first MMO. The magic just doesn't replicate.

It's why so many call for something different. A new style MMO. People are pinning alot of hopes of guild wars 2 because just reading about it lets you know this won't be a clone.

ShadowHearth

Kirby wrote: »

It's why alot of people always compare or go back to wow. It's not that vanilla was stellar, it wasn't......but it was alot of peoples first MMO. The magic just doesn't replicate.

It's why so many call for something different. A new style MMO. People are pinning alot of hopes of guild wars 2 because just reading about it lets you know this won't be a clone.

Just for **** and giggles. Played wow today too. I could play only for 4 mins before I just quited. And went off playing bf3.

I am still looking forward to tera online, but after swtor I will look at it from the side first.

Swtor is great game, but it is just not for me anymore. I feel bad playing mmorpgs now, as i can't give as much time as I used to and I want to play other games instead. And we know that for sure lads: if you play mmorpg, then other games just go in to " newer played " shelf.

shootermacg

well if anyone who's leaving wants to give me their login details so I don't have to go to the bother of paying for the game, that'd be sweet ^ ^.

Maximilian

Just cancelled my subscription, since I haven't played it in about 3 weeks.

Enjoyed getting to 50 but after that what's the point? Playing the same flashpoints over and over to try and get better gear, to play other flashpoints over and over to get even better gear. Yawn.

Won't play another mmo until one comes along that does something different.

Jimbob 83

Got level 50 inside 2 weeks, had alot of fun with the storyline even though the game was eating my poor laptop alive

Once i got level 50 i did the dailies for 1-2 days 2 of the Ilum ones were bugged and found this extremely boring, then decided maybe to make an alt then realised that the content besides the class parts would be 100% the same so i just stopped logging in.

To be honest i play mmo's for pvp mainly so the lack of pvp content was always going to be an issue, it was either 3 in my opinion warfronts, crap pvp on Ilum or ganking people trying to XP, now for me in a game which has had over 100,000,000 spent on it that is really really dissapointing even if it's just something added as an afterthought.

Also even though the game is limited by it's storyline i feel that 2 realm mmo's are a bad idea as balance will always tilt heavily one way or the other in pvp situations 3+ factions provides automatic balancing, 1 side gets too strong the other 2 gang up on them etc.

There was wayyyyy too much time spent zoning also and not being able to upgrade your ship was dissapointing ><

So went back to dark age of camelot for now while i wait for tera and gw2 and even tried my hand at making my 1st pvp video arr

bombs away

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Got level 50 inside 2 weeks, had alot of fun with the storyline even though the game was eating my poor laptop alive

Once i got level 50 i did the dailies for 1-2 days 2 of the Ilum ones were bugged and found this extremely boring, then decided maybe to make an alt then realised that the content besides the class parts would be 100% the same so i just stopped logging in.

To be honest i play mmo's for pvp mainly so the lack of pvp content was always going to be an issue, it was either 3 in my opinion warfronts, crap pvp on Ilum or ganking people trying to XP, now for me in a game which has had over 100,000,000 spent on it that is really really dissapointing even if it's just something added as an afterthought.

Also even though the game is limited by it's storyline i feel that 2 realm mmo's are a bad idea as balance will always tilt heavily one way or the other in pvp situations 3+ factions provides automatic balancing, 1 side gets too strong the other 2 gang up on them etc.

There was wayyyyy too much time spent zoning also and not being able to upgrade your ship was dissapointing ><

So went back to dark age of camelot for now while i wait for tera and gw2 and even tried my hand at making my 1st pvp video arr

What's the music at the start of that vid?

Jimbob 83

She -Colaris