Would you sack Kidney, yay, or nay ?

Almaviva

D Confucius Kidney's thought for the day :
"Time has shown that if you don't deal with what's in front of you, you won't have a good day."


And if that isnt too much for you to take in in one go, you can also have his insightful view on the revised 6N schedule :
"If you start looking at it as four in a row, you're looking at the whole picture"

Genius really.

Full gospel available here:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2012/0215/kidneyd_ireland_france.html

dtpc191991

Almaviva wrote: »

D Confucius Kidney's thought for the day :
"Time has shown that if you don't deal with what's in front of you, you won't have a good day."


And if that isnt too much for you to take in in one go, you can also have his insightful view on the revised 6N schedule :
"If you start looking at it as four in a row, you're looking at the whole picture"

Genius really.

Full gospel available here:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/sixnations/2012/0215/kidneyd_ireland_france.html

There's some classics in the audio clip on irishrugby.ie. For example:

"The players and management I've worked with have taught me to look at part of the glass that's full".

"If this was to happen in 12 months, [thankfully] we have underfloor heating at the Aviva. So we're not such a bad country after all".

And Old time favourite, "That's the nature of sport".

wonton

I love this parody of him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNzpBJzCOGI

It's mad though, I think at the start kidney had like 14 games unbeaten.

Benny Cake

wonton wrote: »

I love this parody of him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNzpBJzCOGI

It's mad though, I think at the start kidney had like 14 games unbeaten.

Good one, must be 6 minutes since it was last posted :rolleyes:

danthefan

We were beaten by NZ in Nov 2008 just after Kidney took over. We were unbeated in all of 2009 but remember it was a Lions year so there was no summer tour.

It all went horribly wrong in 2010.

jacothelad

danthefan wrote: »

We were beaten by NZ in Nov 2008 just after Kidney took over. We were unbeated in all of 2009 but remember it was a Lions year so there was no summer tour.

It all went horribly wrong in 2010.

"It all went horribly wrong in 2010."...and has continued to plummet downhill at a rate of knots in 2011 and 2012 and has to be our worst run since the 1990s. When you see what they can do e.g. v England, Oz and Italy, why the feck are the guys playing like pensioners with arthritis?

irishbucsfan

danthefan wrote: »

We were beaten by NZ in Nov 2008 just after Kidney took over.

Michael Bradley was in charge of that tour was he not? Kidney didn't take over until after the tour.

We were unbeated in all of 2009 but remember it was a Lions year so there was no summer tour.

It all went horribly wrong in 2010.

It was a shame we didn't play the all blacks because our style was very succesful at the time. South Africa were destroying everything in the tri nations that year and we beat them.

CatFromHue

Bradley was in charge of that tour to NZ as Kidney was with Munster for their HEC final at the time.

rugbyman2015

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Michael Bradley was in charge of that tour was he not? Kidney didn't take over until after the tour.

Yes Bradley took the tour in June but then Kidney took over at the start of 2008-2009 season. We played the AB's in Croke Park in November and lost 22-3.

irishbucsfan

Wow I have no recollection of that match! Just shows how awful my memory is!

LostinBlanch

OK I've just read through the whole thread so apologies for quotes from ages ago

JonnyF wrote: »

Think they should also look at bringing in a Sports Psychologist for some of the guys who clearly are playing well within themselves

This is something I have thought of for a couple of years. Especially since I heard an interview from the sports psychologist for the Irish Boxing Team at the Beijing Olympics. Everything he said made sense. But he paid minute attention to detail - even down to finding out how far it was from the dressing rooms to the boxing ring in the arena, so he could concentrate on having different boxers pre fight routines timed to come to a peak when they entered the ring. Look how well they did. They're the most successful Irish Olympic sport at the moment AFAIK. So why not find out what they're doing well and adapt it to the Irish team? You can be sure other teams are doing similar things - looking what works elsewhere and seeing can they adapt it to suit themselves. I remember reading something about South African team looking for a GAA coach to help them with high catches under pressure.

It all comes back to innovation instead of the same ole conservatism that we get with Kidney. I mean if he had had his way TOC would have been 1st choice scrumhalf for the WC. Anyone want to bet that we'd have beaten the Aussies with him playing? I didn't think so. BTW I have nothing against the guy personally, but he isn't a scrumhalf. So why he is in the pool for 6N while genuine emerging talent like Marshall for Ulster isn't is beyond me.

Earls at 13? Does anyone really see that ever happening? He's a winger, and a good one at that so let's keep him there to fight it out with Fitzgerald, Trimble, Bowe for his place. Whoever's on form should have it.

One other thing that I heard Matt Williams say in an interview is that we need to be looking at developing young coaches in the same way as young players. So if you have SH coaches for any provincial (and national) sides you write it into their contracts that they have to bring through at least one young Irish coach, so that we can have a choice of coaches in the future. Exactly like Kidney is being accused of having no Plan B, neither do the IRFU seem to have one. It's all about reactions and short termism instead of thinking ahead and adding something like this into current coaches contracts.

Anyway rant over, come on Ireland; and let's hope the next coach brings the best out of the team.

funky penguin

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Wow I have no recollection of that match! Just shows how awful my memory is!

Wish I was as lucky as you....I can still see Tommy Bowe slapping the ball away from McCaw and the penalty try just before half-time. >_<

BOD's half century as captain as well.

jm08

LostinBlanch wrote: »

OK I've just read through the whole thread so apologies for quotes from ages ago

This is something I have thought of for a couple of years. Especially since I heard an interview from the sports psychologist for the Irish Boxing Team at the Beijing Olympics. Everything he said made sense. But he paid minute attention to detail - even down to finding out how far it was from the dressing rooms to the boxing ring in the arena, so he could concentrate on having different boxers pre fight routines timed to come to a peak when they entered the ring. Look how well they did. They're the most successful Irish Olympic sport at the moment AFAIK. So why not find out what they're doing well and adapt it to the Irish team? You can be sure other teams are doing similar things - looking what works elsewhere and seeing can they adapt it to suit themselves. I remember reading something about South African team looking for a GAA coach to help them with high catches under pressure.

It all comes back to innovation instead of the same ole conservatism that we get with Kidney. I mean if he had had his way TOC would have been 1st choice scrumhalf for the WC. Anyone want to bet that we'd have beaten the Aussies with him playing? I didn't think so. BTW I have nothing against the guy personally, but he isn't a scrumhalf. So why he is in the pool for 6N while genuine emerging talent like Marshall for Ulster isn't is beyond me.

rugby isn't amateur like the boxing , so you wouldn't have a team psychologist as most the players probably have their own one they go to - think a few of them like brian o'driscoll uses enda mcnulty the gaelic footballer. kidney has a masters in psychology anyway , so he is probably more qualified than a lot of them around plying that particular trade. Read brian o'driscoll saying that he had come across a fair few cowboys in his day before he started using enda mcnulty.

irishbucsfan

funky penguin wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Wow I have no recollection of that match! Just shows how awful my memory is!

Wish I was as lucky as you....I can still see Tommy Bowe slapping the ball away from McCaw and the penalty try just before half-time. >_<

BOD's half century as captain as well.

Ah yes...

LostinBlanch

jm08 wrote: »

rugby isn't amateur like the boxing, so you wouldn't have a team psychologist as most the players probably have their own one they go to - think a few of them like brian o'driscoll uses enda mcnulty the gaelic footballer. kidney has a masters in psychology anyway , so he is probably more qualified than a lot of them around plying that particular trade. Read brian o'driscoll saying that he had come across a fair few cowboys in his day before he started using enda mcnulty.

I didn't know the players had their own ones. At least that's something. But I can't see any evidence of Kidney the master psychologist!

Can we please stop with the whole provinces are doing well so ireland should be winning everything argument.
1.international rugby is far harder
2. were basically picking from 3 clubs france and england are picking from far more so they could have far better players than us but spread out more

WeeBushy

Egypt Many Pushcart wrote: »

Can we please stop with the whole provinces are doing well so ireland should be winning everything argument.
1.international rugby is far harder
2. were basically picking from 3 clubs france and england are picking from far more so they could have far better players than us but spread out more

But they don't. Look at their line ups and they are dominated by a few clubs, England especially.

Hagz

Egypt Many Pushcart wrote: »

Can we please stop with the whole provinces are doing well so ireland should be winning everything argument.
1.international rugby is far harder
2. were basically picking from 3 clubs france and england are picking from far more so they could have far better players than us but spread out more

Most Likely to win the Grand Slam - Wales

Wales have just as many clubs as us.

Podge_irl

Egypt Many Pushcart wrote: »

Can we please stop with the whole provinces are doing well so ireland should be winning everything argument.
1.international rugby is far harder
2. were basically picking from 3 clubs france and england are picking from far more so they could have far better players than us but spread out more

People aren't getting frustrated because we're losing to France though, they're getting frustrated cause we're losing to Wales. Who have the same number of clubs as us and you could legitimately claim we have two 2, if not 3, clubs better then any of theirs.

It's also not the change in results from provincial to international that grates. It's the complete regression in tactics and style that irritate me.

Hagz

Hagz wrote: »

Most Likely to win the Grand Slam - Wales

Wales have just as many clubs as us.

and there clubs are very average that prove that successful clubs does not mean successful country or vica versa

flutered

kidney is going down the same road as o sullivan went, late subs, same game plan, methinks whoever coaches ireland have their hands tied, look see, everything that they have both done on match day is identical.

CatFromHue

Hagz wrote: »

Most Likely to win the Grand Slam - Wales

This just reinforces Egypt Many Pushcart's point. Wales have one team in the top 4 of the Pro12 whereas we've 2 and Wales have only 1 team in the QF of the HEC whereas we've 3.

Podge_irl

flutered wrote: »

kidney is going down the same road as o sullivan went, late subs, same game plan, methinks whoever coaches ireland have their hands tied, look see, everything that they have both done on match day is identical.

I could have told you before Kidney was appointed that that would happen (in fact, I'm reasonably sure I did). He hasn't suddenly become a conservative coach when given the Ireland job, he has always been like that. He massively contributed to the stagnation in Munster and their current problems with his selections. No matter how well the younger players played while the senior ones were off with Ireland, they would be dropped like a stone when the internationals came back. Munster played an exceptionally limited game when he was coach as well - an exceptionally successful limited game, but having the best pack in Europe helped there.

This just reinforces Egypt Many Pushcart's point.

Or it reinforces the point that Gatland is simply a much better coach then Kidney.

phog

Podge_irl wrote: »

Or it reinforces the point that Gatland is simply a much better coach then Kidney.

or it reinforces that Ireland have played Wales twice now and played with our heads up our backsides. Best backrow in europe were shown up.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

Or it reinforces the point that Gatland is simply a much better coach then Kidney.

gatland was ireland coach we didnt win anything under him

Hagz

Egypt Many Pushcart wrote: »

and there clubs are very average that prove that successful clubs does not mean successful country or vica versa

Don't cop out. Your point was that England and France have more pockets to reach into and that that makes them more successful. That's why I pointed out that Wales have the same no. as us but they are as good if not better than France/England.

If you wanna make a point about club success translating to international level, then don't use the no. of English and French clubs as a point.

Hagz

CatFromHue wrote: »

This just reinforces Egypt Many Pushcart's point. Wales have one team in the top 4 of the Pro12 whereas we've 2 and Wales have only 1 team in the QF of the HEC whereas we've 3.

No, it doesn't...

phog

phog wrote: »

or it reinforces that Ireland have played Wales twice now and played with our heads up our backsides. Best backrow in europe were shown up.

not the best backrow in europe we dont have a number 7

Hagz

Hagz wrote: »

Don't cop out. Your point was that England and France have more pockets to reach into and that that makes them more successful. That's why I pointed out that Wales have the same no. as us but they are as good if not better than France/England.

If you wanna make a point about club success translating to international level, then don't use the no. of English and French clubs as a point.

no if u read my post my point was that club rugby cant be taken into account

Tox56

Egypt Many Pushcart wrote: »

not the best backrow in europe we dont have a number 7

Someone's been watching too much Hook.