Derrypatrick herd

Farmer Pudsey

stocking rates are deceptive and always have being there is no comparision between a an Angus cow and a charlois or a BBxHO cow but both are 1LU and there is no comparison between a suckler and a dairy cow or betwen a 1400 gallon JEXHoO and a 1000 gallon BF however all are 1LU on paper

A suckler stocked at 1.1 LU/HA in Mayo or Kerry might have 25 acres of fairy good lowland and 200 acres of mountain that may be unenomical to fence. He might also have a 150 day winter and have to take 3 cuts of silage off his 25 acres of lowland and hope and pray he hasn't a wet year.

Stop geting defencive about teagasc maybe you work for them for all we know I am just critical of this project this is the second year that they [EMAIL="F@@ked"]F@@ked[/EMAIL] up. They seem to have gone bald headed for it and thaught that a lot of very good sucklers farmers in the west of Ireland knew nothing

And yes if you have good land and are stocked at 1.1 LU/Acre you are wasting your time just like if you visit the mart in the fall and see a bunch of Fresian bulls 280-300 kgs and the bunch of sucklers bulls after them are 240 kgs you wonder why the lad kept a cow?

49801

bluenun83 wrote: »

During this stage (pre-weaning), the LW gain of the calf is directly linked to the performance of the cow. This is when she is making money for you, or when she is costing you the least, depending on what way you want to look at it. That increased weaning weight holds right through until slaughter. Using it as an indicator as cow perfomance is perfectly fine.

Bulls that have a high pre-weaning LW gain will in-turn have a higher LW gain at grass the following season. The extra weight in heifers is maintained right through the season. Saying that it is deceptive is completely untrue. You will have different levels of performance through the life of a bull and heifer, but the extra weight at weaning through a "milkier" cow, whatever the breed, is still there at the end.

I see your point that weaning weight is useful for measuring cow performance. I just know of someone who is using the LW figures for his calves while they are on the cow. These figures are quite impressive like 1.5-1.6. However if you quanitfy the LW several months later after the animal has been weaned and gone through the winter housing period the LW gain over their lifetime is more like 1.1-1.2. So that is what I was trying to get at. Of course the higher the LW gain while still on the cow is still the cheapist you will get.

The data out of derry patrick to date does indicate that the continental types do make up lost ground in yr2.

I would argrue that indicates that more milk needs to be breed into the continentals. but that is just my opinion

bluenun83

49801 wrote: »

bluenun83 wrote: »

During this stage (pre-weaning), the LW gain of the calf is directly linked to the performance of the cow. This is when she is making money for you, or when she is costing you the least, depending on what way you want to look at it. That increased weaning weight holds right through until slaughter. Using it as an indicator as cow perfomance is perfectly fine.

Bulls that have a high pre-weaning LW gain will in-turn have a higher LW gain at grass the following season. The extra weight in heifers is maintained right through the season. Saying that it is deceptive is completely untrue. You will have different levels of performance through the life of a bull and heifer, but the extra weight at weaning through a "milkier" cow, whatever the breed, is still there at the end.

I see your point that weaning weight is useful for measuring cow performance. I just know of someone who is using the LW figures for his calves while they are on the cow. These figures are quite impressive like 1.5-1.6. However if you quanitfy the LW several months later after the animal has been weaned and gone through the winter housing period the LW gain over their lifetime is more like 1.1-1.2. So that is what I was trying to get at. Of course the higher the LW gain while still on the cow is still the cheapist you will get.

The data out of derry patrick to date does indicate that the continental types do make up lost ground in yr2.

I would argrue that indicates that more milk needs to be breed into the continentals. but that is just my opinion

That's exactly it. if we increase the maternal line in our 3/4 breds then we are home and dry for our farm system be it wealing sellers or whatever!!! if the cow is right, the key to the overall success of our systems complete.

Muckit

pakalasa wrote: »

DEZ, the Charolais bull, by Texan-Gie
http://www.icbf.com/taurus/bull_search/index.php?search_type=num&search=dez [/QUOTE]

Gas, he's only €87 SBV

bluenun83

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

stocking rates are deceptive and always have being there is no comparision between a an Angus cow and a charlois or a BBxHO cow but both are 1LU and there is no comparison between a suckler and a dairy cow or betwen a 1400 gallon JEXHoO and a 1000 gallon BF however all are 1LU on paper ?

.

This example you have just listed (Angus vs the chx) suggests that the Derrypatrick unit is stocked higher still with the heavier cows in the make up, while you admitted earlier, that you thought they weren't stocked that highly.

DId you not get my pint about the dairy industry having moved away from the 700kg animal. The north american Holstein fresians used to be near enough equivalent weight to a suckler. The breeding changed and hey presto the cow changed.

This is something that we in sucklers will most likely have to do. The cows out in industry are too big and unproductive.

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Stop geting defencive about teagasc maybe you work for them for all we know I am just critical of this project this is the second year that they F@@ked up. They seem to have gone bald headed for it and thaught that a lot of very good sucklers farmers in the west of Ireland knew nothing

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Look pudsey, i have followed this thing from start to finish, and know it pretty much inside out. I go to the open days the farm walks, and actively take an interest in things like this. It really bothers me when people start ranting on about whatever their opinions are about whatever is going on. Opinions are fine when they are based around facts. I am not defending teagasc, nor do i work for them. I simply deal with the facts and not let opinions or self beliefs take over the truth based primarily around science.
We can all rant on here about this that and the other, but can we please stick to the facts and deal with them. Every point you have raised i have openly discussed or dealt with. I probably did go against you a bit harder than anyone else, but that is mainly because i thought you comments were flawed or inaccurate or old news.

That is the main reason i reacted. Apologies.

1chippy

derrypatrick, regardless whether you agree or disagree is another source of information for us. how many opportunities do we get to see another farmers set up. just for curiousities sake what are your losses in a percentage basis. ours at home are at 10% and could easily go up in the next week or two.

just do it

1chippy wrote: »

derrypatrick, regardless whether you agree or disagree is another source of information for us. how many opportunities do we get to see another farmers set up. just for curiousities sake what are your losses in a percentage basis. ours at home are at 10% and could easily go up in the next week or two.

I fully agree chippy, it is after all a "research" project that is supposed to be a learning experience for the industry. It's up to each of us to take what we like from it and leave the rest of it. I appreciate Teagasc for their honesty and showing the herd warts and all. If it went swimmingly from the very start there would have been no learning experience in that! Maybe in year 3 they find the sweet spot and at the end of it there will valuable lessons from it.

As you say, I'd hate to have my herd under the spot light!

Arrow in the Knee

Sorry for bringing up a Zombie thread but sure there's no point doing a new thread.

How is the Derrypatrick Herd doing now?