What role did Ireland play in the Rwandan Genocide?

Broads.ie

I've been reading all night about the genocide in Rwanda and how it was ignored by the UN.

I can't find any info on Ireland's position regarding the genocide. Did we do anything? Did we try to help the poor feckers as "Ireland" or even realize the gravity of the situation?

Btw I was 8 when it happened so don't ask me what I did to help them.

J. Marston

We started it sure.

Jesus Wept

Mary Robinson turned up afterwards.

TEMPLAR KNIGHT

Does it matter? We can barely look after ourselves. We should stop being so concerned with giving aid aswell, we could put the money towards helping the Irish, our economy and reducing debt.

Broads.ie

Alright maybe the word "role" is a bit too strong. Afterall, if all Cork people started slashing Dubliners with machetes, would we really expect Rwanda to step in? Me hole.

But during the Rwandan genocide, did Ireland do fucking ANYTHING to help?

seantorious

Mary Robinson sent a strongly worded yet non threatening letter expressing her sadness at events on behalf of the Irish people.

Sindri

As far as I know, we sent them a goat, a football and a copy of a self help book called Don't Panic, it only makes things worse.












We asked for the goat back...



And that is why Séamus Heaney won a Nobel Prize.

Jesus Wept

seantorious wrote: »

Mary Robinson sent a strongly worded yet non threatening letter expressing her sadness at events on behalf of the Irish people.

And the diaspora.

Chuck Stone

A drum roll.

zuzuzu

Left corner back

Cookie_Monster

We probably gave them money for a few fighter jets

syklops

It was all over by the time RTE got to hear about it.

efb

Mary Robinson gave an understanding and sympathetic nod in their general direction

galwayrush

We imported a token few from each divide as asylum seekers and put them into the same building in Galway where they promptly attacked each other....

minidazzler

We told the hiti's that the Tutsis said they were ugly, just to see what happen you know, start a little scrap for a laugh, boy were we embarrassed when things went overboard.

stevenmu

I'm pretty sure Bono had a good moan about how none of use were stopping it.

Sindri

stevenmu wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Bono had a good moan about how none of use were stopping it.

I'm pretty sure some of us had a good moan at Bono having a good moan about how none of us were stopping it.


The man is a living saint. And a genius.

davet82

i dont think anyone gave a shyte about what happened there, no oil so no help

SafeSurfer

I did hear a lot of Tutsis and Hutus on Liveline at the time. Not sure if Joe was able to sort it out for them.

biko

You should probably ask in History OP.

Afaik Ireland started it by depriving one side of Guinness while giving the other side extra pints. This ignited a longstanding conflict between the pygmees and the oompa loopas.

http://worldnews.about.com/od/africa/f/tutsihutu.htm

Pacifist Pigeon

Ireland? Role? What?

We caused a genocide? When? Where? How? What time is it?

Sprouts

We sent them cheese, didn't we?

mikemac1

Watched that Di Caprio film Blood Diamond

The Africans are fond of their Guinness for sure, all the bars had it. Though they drink it straight out of small bottles

So OP, it's our fault for getting them drunk and violent

Riddle101

We went into Rawanda and started kicking some ass that's what we did OP. Good oul Irish aid.

shanered

Answer to your question:


NONE!

I Heart Internet

TEMPLAR KNIGHT wrote: »

Does it matter? We can barely look after ourselves. We should stop being so concerned with giving aid aswell, we could put the money towards helping the Irish, our economy and reducing debt.

What does aid have to do with genocide in Rwanda?

It matters because they're human and a whole load of them were getting slaughtered. I'm no bob fuppin geldof but human's getting killed should matter

thomasj

We donated generously we did but the sad fact was beyond that we didnt check to see what was being done with it!

Nothingbetter2d

africa should be burned :P just kidding but they really need to learn to stand on their own two feet and stop following dictators that ruin their economies.

mikemac1

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

they really need to learn to stand on their own two feet and stop following dictators that ruin their economies.

Wise advice there, wise advice

We shouldn't leave political parties in power for thirteen years either.

I Heart Internet

OP If you can find the rest of this (it used to be on youtube in full) then it's worth a watch and gives a very intersting (maybe completely wrong) insight into the Rwandan genocide. (Kind of all the Belgian's fault according to him). Very cool 3 part documentary series for BBC - All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGHl5dKrnHk

Nothingbetter2d

mikemac1 wrote: »

Wise advice there, wise advice

We shouldn't leave political parties in power for thirteen years either.

we has any of the aid sent out to africa over the last 30 years actually improved things out there? its still a ****hole ruined by corrupt dictators and extreme poverty for their people.

until the old guard is removed sending out aid is a pointless effort.

I Heart Internet

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

we has any of the aid sent out to africa over the last 30 years actually improved things out there? its still a ****hole ruined by corrupt dictators and extreme poverty for their people.

until the old guard is removed sending out aid is a pointless effort.

Some Aid does work - and has worked. But it's just one part of the solution that also includes trade, security and better laws and regional "peer pressure".

The Paul Collier school of thinking
http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_collier_shares_4_ways_to_help_the_bottom_billion.html

mikemac1

Maybe Niall Mellon who robbed Irish citizens with overpriced and shoddy new builds and robbed taxpayers by entering NAMA can ease his conscience by building some houses out there
Charity begins abroad for Niall
He even brings over his own volunteers instead of paying and employing locals.

Nothingbetter2d

mikemac1 wrote: »

Maybe Niall Mellon who robbed Irish citizens with overpriced and shoddy new builds and robbed taxpayers by entering NAMA can ease his conscience by building some houses out there
Charity begins abroad for Niall
He even brings over his own volunteers instead of paying and employing locals.

highlighted that bit... the volunteers are not paid. A friend went over to do that for a month. he enjoyed the experience but said none of them got paid for it... they got food and shelter but the rest came out of their own pocket.

Nothingbetter2d

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

highlighted that bit... the volunteers are not paid. A friend went over to do that for a month. he enjoyed the experience but said none of them got paid for it... they got food and shelter but the rest came out of their own pocket.

Volunteers aren't paid :eek:

sheesh

what does the op think Ireland could have done about it?

flanders1979

I watched Hotel Rwanda last night. It was crap. All the african accents sounded like the Tommy Tiernan African priest pisstake.

CrazyRabbit

We donated plenty of aid which went towards feeding/arming the warring factions.

later12

I don't know how historically accurate Hotel Rwanda was, but it is an amazing and perturbing film. For some reason, hearing the news about Syria always reminds me of it.

Specifically, there was an image in the paper the other day of a person holding up a sign saying something like "if you don't act, we will die". It isn't quite comparable, but the point is that there are many conflicts which we here in Europe completely ignore or to which we pay very little attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYwuXvA589A

buck65

Actually Blur vs Oasis was the most covered conflict in these parts for ages, not forgetting Keano v Micko

Seren_

I haven't seen Hotel Rwanda, but I know that the hotel siege did actually happen. Wikipedia link.

I studied the Rwandan genocide in a module last year in college, it's hugely interesting. I don't know was there much that Ireland could do at the time, seeing as the UN and media sources pretty much blacklisted anything about what was happening. Roméo Dallaire's book Shake Hands With The Devil is brilliant. He was the head of the UN mission in Rwanda during the genocide and details the mistakes that were made by the UN and international agencies, Fergal Keane has a good book about it too.

token101

The UN is a f*****g sham of an organisation. They stood back and did nothing in all of this! They left whe it got slightly out of hand. They did the same in Srebrenica when they handed the keys of the town to Mladic. The Dutch generals were drinking whiskey with him before he butched 5,000 people. They'd do the same in Syria given half a chance. NATO will usually only intervene when it suits them or when there is oil involved, but at least they do something when they do get involved (Libya, Kosovo). The UN is the most useless organisation that ever existed. Have they ever stepped in somewhere and helped in meaningful way?

later12

token101 wrote: »

Have they ever stepped in somewhere and helped in meaningful way?

Oh yes, certainly. The East Timor conflict of 1999 could well have erupted into a genocide if it wasn't for the UN. I'm sure there are lots of examples, but that's just one that comes foremost to mind.

token101

later10 wrote: »

Oh yes, certainly. The East Timor conflict of 1999 could well have erupted into a genocide if it wasn't for the UN. I'm sure there are lots of examples, but that's just one that comes foremost to mind.

Was that not the Aussies commanding a regional force backing by USA?? I don't think that was the UN. They gave a resolution (what good is a f***ing resolution to anyone when civilians are being slaughtered???), but the Aussies stepped in and took over then afaik. There was nobody in blue helmets doing anything.

later12

token101 wrote: »

Was that not the Aussies commanding a regional force backing by USA?? I don't think that was the UN. They gave a resolution (what good is a f***ing resolution to anyone when civilians are being slaughtered???), but the Aussies stepped in and took over then afaik. There was nobody in blue helmets doing anything.

Well the UN organised the referendum that brought about East Timor's independence, I checked wikipedia which says that it mandated InterfET (which as you say was largely made up of Australians) which presumably means the intervention was very much one executed by the UN... I'm not sure what else it could have done.

I agree that the UN are often slow to intervene, and that the UN is generally an ineffective organisation; but they certainly have done some useful work and I think East Timor is an example of that.

Seren_

Just been thinking some more about this. I don't necessarily think the genocide could have been stopped, regardless of earlier UN intervention or not. The hatred between the Hutus and Tutsis had been bred into them from the time of Rwanda as a Belgian colony (I'm not going to go into the whole background here as it would take forever, but there's a lot about it on the internet in general), and it really was a ticking time bomb. The huge levels of propaganda, both in print form and especially radio was a huge factor as well, and that had been going on for years beforehand. It was just the death of Habyarimana that set it off. People knew about the hatred for decades, but nothing was done.

Also, Shake Hands With The Devil was made into a film too. Just after discovering that now. If anyone has access to the Human Rights Watch investigation (it should be in college libraries anyway, not sure about regular ones) it is well worth a read. It brings to light how much the genocide was ignored internationally.

John Doe1

I vaguely remember daniel o donnell atop a white horse curing the dying children with his magical gayness

The Waltzing Consumer

token101 wrote: »

The UN is a f*****g sham of an organisation. They stood back and did nothing in all of this! They left whe it got slightly out of hand. They did the same in Srebrenica when they handed the keys of the town to Mladic. The Dutch generals were drinking whiskey with him before he butched 5,000 people. They'd do the same in Syria given half a chance. NATO will usually only intervene when it suits them or when there is oil involved, but at least they do something when they do get involved (Libya, Kosovo). The UN is the most useless organisation that ever existed. Have they ever stepped in somewhere and helped in meaningful way?

Well you can ask that to the 60 families of Irish soldiers who have died in peacekeeping roles in the UN since 1960. :rolleyes:

No offense, but do you not think you are a bit of a muppet for writing such naive things?

Unavailable for Comment

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

Well you can ask that to the 60 families of Irish soldiers who have died in peacekeeping roles in the UN since 1960. :rolleyes:

No offense, but do you not think you are a bit of a muppet for writing such naive things?

Ask them whether they believe the UN squandered their relatives lives?

No offense but it's naive for you to believe they'd have an unbiased view of the events that occurred or indeed the reasoning behind them.

The Waltzing Consumer

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

Ask them whether they believe the UN squandered their relatives lives?

No offense but it's naive for you to believe they'd have an unbiased view of the events that occurred or indeed the reasoning behind them.

Of course they are not unbiased but then again neither is the posters question where he asked if they stepped in in a meaningful way, that is not an objective way of examining the Irish role in the UN or the UN in general.

What is meaningful? Saving one life? Saving five lives but losing a few thousand?

As for squandering, we have a small army and an honorable tradition in peacekeeping which I believe is meaningful, as for what the families think, they can think whatever they wish about the UN.

token101

later10 wrote: »

Well the UN organised the referendum that brought about East Timor's independence, I checked wikipedia which says that it mandated InterfET (which as you say was largely made up of Australians) which presumably means the intervention was very much one executed by the UN... I'm not sure what else it could have done.

I agree that the UN are often slow to intervene, and that the UN is generally an ineffective organisation; but they certainly have done some useful work and I think East Timor is an example of that.

It's a meaningless organisation boycotted at will by anyone with enough power. Just look at Iraq. It showed the Security Council up as a farce. Syria is clearly a case where they should intervene immediately to stop a slaughter but they can't even agree that a tyrant should step aside. It's a joke. Saying something is 'ineffective' as people die in droves is a bit of a euphemism really.