Getting thrown out of a certain pub

The Snipe

constantg wrote: »

It's actually not.....ever wonder how photojournalists don't get arrested. perfectly legal to take someone's photograph even if they refuse...

Once again, it'd be in a public place, its not perving (People would consider what they were doing harrassment to the most part) and most the time they are concenting.


From experience they can take it if they refuse, only in a public space.

TONY DAY

savagecabbages wrote: »

And neither can a customer 'smack' a member of staff one, so it works both ways. Just consider someone raising a glass or bottle threatening to hit you with it. You dont take the chance and wait untill he/she swings at you with it and leaves you blind in one eye. When people see a young studenty type being removed from a place and make a snap judgement, they only see a small part of what was happening -the 10 seconds it takes to put someone out. The barstaff may have been dealing with said customer for 5 mins before security arrive, or the security themselves may have dealt with the customer 3 or 4 times previously.

Yes of course a customer can't hit a bouncer either. I've seen plenty of people taken away by the Gardai for that but i've yet to see a Bouncer taken away for it.

Look Bouncers are there to maintain order. They have no right to assault customers. If they do then they should be treated in the same manner as the clown who started the fight in the first place!!

And i have seen with my own eyes in numerous night clubs in Limerick down through the years Bouncers rushing across the dance floor and kicking lads (literally) out the door just for making a nuisance of themselves.

I said it already the majority of Bouncers i've seen on the doors of Pubs and Night clubs are Men with Violent temperments. I often wonder do they have friends in the Gardai with they way they carry on with their heavy handed approach. They know they will get away it!!

savagecabbages

They are subject to the same laws as the rest of us. Violence should not be tolerated. I'm sure if someone feels hard done by, they prosecute whoever it is for assault. Pubs an clubs are crawling with cctv everything is recorded!

However its unfair to make rash judgements based on seeing a very small part of the picture...

Liam Byrne

Icky Thump wrote: »

zuroph wrote: »

inside the pub isn't a public place, Its hassling staff.

really???

inside a Pub(lic house) isnt a public place??? i thought it falls under a public place according to law???

Well there's an offence for being "drunk in a public place", and given the state of most patrons in pubs & clubs, I'd guess that that definition doesn't apply?

TONY DAY

Savagecabbages sorry i'm not buying it. Look i think the Bouncers have a tough job and its certainly a job i wouldn't dream of doing myself.

But i'm only repeating what i've seen. Too many times i've seen unnecessary force being used by Bouncers.

I myself have reported Bouncers to the Gardai after witnessing assualts and of course the Gardai just say "we'll folow up on it"!!!

source

TONY DAY wrote: »

Savagecabbages sorry i'm not buying it. Look i think the Bouncers have a tough job and its certainly a job i wouldn't dream of doing myself.

But i'm only repeating what i've seen. Too many times i've seen unnecessary force being used by Bouncers.

I myself have reported Bouncers to the Gardai after witnessing assualts and of course the Gardai just say "we'll folow up on it"!!!

Tony the problem with you reporting an assault you've witnesses, is without an injured party Gardai cannot proceed with an assault case. So while you report it, unless the person assaulted reports it then there's nothing that can be done. The reason for this is assault isn't as black and white as people think.

There's varying levels of assault, and the most common form of assault, section 2, doesnt have a power of arrest. Say I was to punch you, no damage, just a bruise. A Garda cannot arrest me, he can take my details and invite me to make a cautioned statement to give my side of what happened. Then he summonses me to court if he believed what you've said over what I've said. If not, case is dropped and it goes no further.

If Gardai track down injured party, and he doesnt want to make a complaint the whole thing is dropped, the witness which is what you are, will not be informed of this.

It's easy to blame the Gardai for doing nothing when you don't know what the Gardai can and cannot do.

TONY DAY

Good points Source. I'm not on a crusade against Bouncers the last thing i want to be doing on a night out is heading up to Henry St to report Bouncers!!!

I think the Law regarding exactly what Bouncers can and can't do is very vague. It should be made more clear to the public. Maybe even go so far as have a sign up in Bars stating what force they are allowed use.

If this results in an overly aggressive Bouncer losing his job well then good!!

xsiborg

TONY DAY wrote: »

Good points Source. I'm not on a crusade against Bouncers the last thing i want to be doing on a night out is heading up to Henry St to report Bouncers!!!

I think the Law regarding exactly what Bouncers can and can't do is very vague. It should be made more clear to the public. Maybe even go so far as have a sign up in Bars stating what force they are allowed use.

If this results in an overly aggressive Bouncer losing his job well then good!!

this thread seems to have veered waaaay off topic from the original question in the OP.

the bar staff are also there to do a job, they obviously felt harassed and intimidated by a couple of douchebags whose behaviour was clearly unwelcome.

the security staff are there to protect the interests of not just the patrons but also the staff, and to deter any unwelcome or unsavoury behaviour.

i think they were correct on this occasion to eject these patrons on the grounds that their behaviour was intimidating staff. its that simple.

TONY DAY

Here is an extract from an Interesting article i found re What Doorstaff can and can't do legally
"There is a popular misconception that bouncers have (or reserve) the right to use physical force freely. However, in many countries bouncers have no legal authority to use physical force more freely than any other civilian—meaning they are restricted to reasonable levels of force used in self defense, to eject drunk or aggressive patrons refusing to leave a venue, or when restraining a patron who has committed an offence until police arrive.[32][36] Lawsuits are possible if injuries occur, even if the patron was drunk or using aggressive language.[32]

Insect Overlord

Mod note: Tony, lay off the crusade and stay on topic, please.

TONY DAY

Pont taken Insect Overlord.
Just wanted to make a few points. As regards the article yes i do believe that the people taking the photos of the barmaids should have been asked to leave. The girls are employed to serve customers only and people taking photos of them is invading their privacy.

Tomk1

Maybe the staff should of took pics of the lads taking pics of the barstaff, or get pics from cctv, and put them on the windows or behind the bar, untill the lads apologise. Maybe not facebook as that's publishing the photos.

um7y1h83ge06nx

constantg wrote: »

If its the bar beginning with N on Denmark Street, then there might be a smaller, older bouncer in there who wears a baseball cap..

I've always found him to be very ignorant and quite intimidating during the night and especially at closing time. Does anyone know can a bouncer physically push you/remove you from the premises? Or does that constitute assault?

That guy certainly wouldn't be my favourite bouncer in Limerick, for an older guy he seems to have quite a chip on his shoulder or something.

Had a slight run-in with him one night. There was a small group of us in the front bar when he comes barrelling through removing a lad from the premises. The guy wasn't resisting but anyway the bouncer knocks into us, spilling some of our drinks etc. I just shouldered/shoved them back to get them out of our way. A few minutes later he comes back, giving out hell to me. I just told him to chill out and stop acting like a thug. Surprisingly he backed down and nothing was done.

Just realised I was quoting you constantg! You weren't there that night btw.

TONY DAY

Ah the small man complex!! Enough said!!

RINO87

savagecabbages wrote: »

And neither can a customer 'smack' a member of staff one, so it works both ways. Just consider someone raising a glass or bottle threatening to hit you with it. You dont take the chance and wait untill he/she swings at you with it and leaves you blind in one eye. When people see a young studenty type being removed from a place and make a snap judgement, they only see a small part of what was happening -the 10 seconds it takes to put someone out. The barstaff may have been dealing with said customer for 5 mins before security arrive, or the security themselves may have dealt with the customer 3 or 4 times previously.

Not to mention the 8/10 other times that security may calmly walk someone out of the pub and nobody notices anything.
I'm not having a go at heavy handedness or power tripping, but just asking people not to jump to conclusions when they get a glimpse of the end of a situation that might have been going on for several minutes...

gotta agree with whats being said here. Having worked in bars for the last good few years, albeit not in limnerick for a while, I can only say that the amount of abuse bar staff get is staggering, and its been on a steep rise upwards for the last while. Being "drunk" does not give you the right to get away with anything, bouncers and bar staff have a tough enough job as it is, without being further criticised when people dont know the whole story. Yes, bouncers might be seen as heavy handed when they come bounding in, but as was stated before, they may have been notified of someones behaviour beforehand and just decided enough is enough.

If someone is purchasing soem tea bags, loo roll and buscuits in dunnes and decides to abuse the checkout operator would they not also be removed??

TONY DAY

Yes but they don't run the risk of being aggressively pushed out of the shop or even kicked or punched. Thats the whole point surely!

zuroph

Nobody got kicked or punched. FFS, some creeps hassled bar staff and were made leave, that's all you know.

zuroph

TONY DAY wrote: »

Here is an extract from an Interesting article i found re What Doorstaff can and can't do legally
"There is a popular misconception that bouncers have (or reserve) the right to use physical force freely. However, in many countries bouncers have no legal authority to use physical force more freely than any other civilian—meaning they are restricted to reasonable levels of force used in self defense, to eject drunk or aggressive patrons refusing to leave a venue, or when restraining a patron who has committed an offence until police arrive.[32][36] Lawsuits are possible if injuries occur, even if the patron was drunk or using aggressive language.[32]

This is a nonsense piece as it covers all bases, its not even relevent to Irish law. For example, "meaning they are restricted to reasonable levels of force used in self defense, to eject drunk or aggressive patrons refusing to leave a venue," means they can use reasonable levels of force to remove someone at closing, if they're refusing. Of course lawsuits are possible, it doesnt say whether they'd win or not, you dont need to be guilty of anything for someone to chance their arm at a lawsuit...

SupraSonic_26

Im a bouncer on denmark street not in any of the bars youve mentioned but if bar staff feel they are being hasseled we can eject those persons. I do agree some bouncers in certian places mentioned i know one or two who are heavey handed and its stupid.I myself would only ever do that if its a threat to myself as defending myself and other people around me if that person is very aggressive otherwise if there not i dont touch them i ask them to leave nicely and follow behind them. I find reasoning with the perosn before hand is alot better then all guns blazing and trying to rip them out the door its not right. those people who took those pics are sleezy shouldnt be allowed, bar staff have rights too.

constantg

friend of the missus when they were in NUIM got ejected from a pub/club in the town one night.

bouncer was a bit heavy handed and threw a few digs to 'let the student c*nt know who was boss.'

so the student c*nt went home, grabbed a brick, went round a broke one or two of the bouncer's windows. Now while I don't agree with him in this instance, you do have to admit that you tend to reap what you sow.



The pub beginning with N and ending in Y on Denmark Street tend to clear the place very early.....like IMMEDIATELY after the music stops, within seconds the small-angry bouncer there started screaming at both myself and Super Sonic and two of our friends who were just finishing off our pints.

And I mean screaming right into our faces and pushing us out the door of the bar out the back, into the courtyard......

teddyhead

Sounds like overkill by the bouncers , but whats new?
Given the prevalence of cameraphones , this policy could cause a lot of confusion and conflict. Regarding 'perving' by the public , I bet its not half as prevalent as 'perving' by bouncers as they check out all the talent around the place.

Gregor Samsa

source wrote: »

It is, here's the legal definition:

A public place is anyplace the public have access, whether by right or by permission, and whether subject to or free of charge

Where did you get that legal definition from? Doing a Google search of the quote gives only one result: This thread. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd assume that a legal definition like that would return more results.

IsaacWunder

phutyle wrote: »

Where did you get that legal definition from? Doing a Google search of the quote gives only one result: This thread. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd assume that a legal definition like that would return more results.

It's the wording from the 1994 Public order Act. It only applies in the context of that act.

the drifter

I think this thread has run its course. I should have closed it once a fap fap pic was posted to be honest. it has descended into a " tell your story about bouncers thread" and i feel it no longer has anything to contribute to the forum. As always feel free to PM me or another mod if you wish to discuss

D