'A gentleman always pays for the first date'

nice_very

mrs crilly wrote: »

If I was a bloke and I knew that about you I wouldn't even take you out on the date!

We are in a recession, I would not feel comfortable with a bloke spending €80/100 on a dinner for us cos money is tight for everybody.

And I would never not ask a bloke out for fear of rejection, that's just silly! So what if they don't want to have dinner with you. I reckon it's cause you don't want to get hit with the bill :rolleyes:

wanna go out sometime? I have a 2 for 1 burger king voucher.... :cool: (we could be the next cill dara/kiera)

Jesus Wept

It's a mad country to be fair, well played all.

johnny_cash

I can't believe there's 27 pages in this thread :eek: I taught people never went on dates in ireland

DonQuay1

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairyprincess
But for the first date I think the man definitely should pay, although I would offer to split it. Especially if you knew there was going to be no second date

---

Ummm.... if there's going to be no second date - why split it?

"... if you knew there was going to be no second date" - why don't you pay for the whole meal?

Are you being cheap?

mrs crilly

mrs crilly wrote: »

If I was a bloke and I knew that about you I wouldn't even take you out on the date!

We are in a recession, I would not feel comfortable with a bloke spending €80/100 on a dinner for us cos money is tight for everybody.

And I would never not ask a bloke out for fear of rejection, that's just silly! So what if they don't want to have dinner with you. I reckon it's cause you don't want to get hit with the bill :rolleyes:

the person you were quoting said those were the highlights of the debate so far, not their personal opinions

Grayson

1) We do notice when girls wear makeup. Even if you're just wearing a little, we notice. We are not blind. You just like to think we don't notice and we're being polite when we compliment you.

2) A woman of any merit should pay half. Anything else is cheap. I also think women who think men should pay are self involved. It's like they believe a man should pay for their company.

Think of it like this. If I went out with a woman for dinner on a first date and expected her to pay, I'd be considered a bastard. I'd be considered cheap, selfish and rude. Yet simply by having different genitals a woman can sit there and expect a man to pay. And they are not subject to the same derision a man would be.

LimGal

Fook that!
We allowed ye have a vote so now ye can pay for your own meals!
Every action has a................

Fiona

nice_very wrote: »

wanna go out sometime? I have a 2 for 1 burger king voucher.... :cool: (we could be the next cill dara/kiera)

If i was in the dating game a spin out to Howth and a bag of chips would be good enough for me.

RacoonQueen

Can't be bothered reading 28 pages but I'd never expect a guy to pay for the first date. My first date with one guy a couple of years ago I was told that I was buying x and y since he'd paid for a and b. That pissed me off, don't tell me what I'm paying for you cheap sh*t.

Edit: I'd always expect it to be that way anyway. If he paid for cinema tickets like I'd get the grub, he pays for tickets for something I'd buy the drinks, he pays for dinner I'll pay for the drinks afterwards etc but when you order me that I'm paying it you can feck off, at least wait until you see whether I expect you to buy everything or not...

Feeona

I agree with Katgurl 100%. It's basic manners on a first date. She has pointed out that she wouldn't go on a second date with a guy who expected her to pay half. Most of the thread has been taken up with lambasting her for holding this opinion.

There was barely a murmur when some male posters opined that they would not go on another date with a girl if she didn't offer to pay half. This doesn't seem to be an issue at all.

Double standards imo.

how is it double standards to disagree with someone who doesn't want half, and to agree with someone who does want half?

Feeona

It's double standards for Katgurl to get hassle in this thread for her opinion on dating, while male posters who said they wouldn't date someone for personal reasons didn't get anywhere near the same amount of hassle.

Grayson

Feeona wrote: »

It's double standards for Katgurl to get hassle in this thread for her opinion on dating, while male posters who said they wouldn't date someone for personal reasons didn't get anywhere near the same amount of hassle.

It's double standards if it's ok for a woman to expect a man to pay for everything, but it's not ok for a man to expect a woman to pay for even half.

If you want a man to start paying for your affections then you should think about changing your profession to a very old one.

Paddy Cow

Feeona wrote: »

It's double standards for Katgurl to get hassle in this thread for her opinion on dating, while male posters who said they wouldn't date someone for personal reasons didn't get anywhere near the same amount of hassle.

Do you know what double standards means because it doesn't apply here. Her opinion is unpopular and she was challenged on it but it wasn't hassle. I still think her opinion sucks but fair play to her for standing by it in the face of adversity.

Precious flower

In my opinion, it's only fair for a girl to pay half. Why should I expect any guy to fork out money for the whole bill just because I'm a girl, especially now, when money is short for everyone.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Does equality only suit women in certain situations?

aaronjumper

I'm in the "whoever does the inviting pays" boat.

I would find it kind of cheeky for a woman to invite me out for a meal and then expect me to pay. If you're a relationship then take turns.

Katgurl

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Feeona wrote: »

It's double standards for Katgurl to get hassle in this thread for her opinion on dating, while male posters who said they wouldn't date someone for personal reasons didn't get anywhere near the same amount of hassle.

Do you know what double standards means because it doesn't apply here. Her opinion is unpopular and she was challenged on it but it wasn't hassle. I still think her opinion sucks but fair play to her for standing by it in the face of adversity.

Thank you for your support Paddy.

Sorry to redrag this old thread but it's been on my mind.

I have reconsidered my original stance as when I thought back over my many dating highs and lows I realised I didn't hystorically expect men to pay for the first date. The first date is pretty casual, usually drinks and that tends to be rounds. However I think it's nice for him to go to the bar and get the first round in. I've noticed most of my male friends do that anyway for their female friends, the drinks get bought back anyway, it's just a gesture. If it's cinema I think it's nice for him get tickets and I do food or viceversa. (I still don't think whip out the calculator 50:50 is sexy though.)

Where I do like to be treated however is when it has moved to the 'we are officially dating I'd like to take you out to dinner' stage. This is my abso favourite date, the first proper invited out to dinner date, it's pretty established you're into each other, it's an excuse to get super dressed up, lingerie, heels, the lot, flirt outrageously and end up in bed afterwards.

Now before everyone starts roaring at me again I accept that the man shouldn't be EXPECTED to pay for dinner. Likewise the woman shouldn't be expected to put out. But with me, usually this is around the time when it happens. And I find the whole old-fashioned dinner date, being treated, being dressed up etc very hot.

But I am ONLY speaking for myself and a particular stage of the seduction process that I like. So shoot me.

ibarelycare

So the night he pays for dinner is the night you have sex with him? Interesting!

kfallon

ibarelycare wrote: »

So the night he pays for dinner is the night you have sex with him? Interesting!

Will I get a handjob for a bag of chips???

That_Guy

kfallon wrote: »

Will I get a handjob for a bag of chips???

Just don't get any vinegar on it.

Katgurl

ibarelycare wrote: »

So the night he pays for dinner is the night you have sex with him? Interesting!

dinner is kind of formal so by the time it got to that stage you'd usually know if it's going that way or not... If not we wouldn't still be dating, if going that way then it's a good a time as any, if unsure then postpone and keep the dates to movies / walks / drinks for the forseeable

ibarelycare

Katgurl wrote: »

dinner is kind of formal so by the time it got to that stage you'd usually know if it's going that way or not... If not we wouldn't still be dating, if going that way then it's a good a time as any, if unsure then postpone and keep the dates to movies / walks / drinks for the forseeable

If he asked you to 50/50 for your "formal" dinner, would you still have sex with him?

kfallon

That_Guy wrote: »

Just don't get any vinegar on it.

And pray I don't end up with a battered sausage either

booboo88

I have yet to meet a guy who pays for the first date. Or any date for that matter

flanders1979

booboo88 wrote: »

I have yet to meet a guy who pays for the first date. Or any date for that matter

I find that strange. Even for something cheap like the cinema?

Katgurl

ibarelycare wrote: »

Katgurl wrote: »

dinner is kind of formal so by the time it got to that stage you'd usually know if it's going that way or not... If not we wouldn't still be dating, if going that way then it's a good a time as any, if unsure then postpone and keep the dates to movies / walks / drinks for the forseeable

If he asked you to 50/50 for your "formal" dinner, would you still have sex with him?

well yes I did last week so I guess I am a total hypocrite

he's a really generous bloke and cool and nice so I guess absolute rules can be destructive

But LUCKILY I have AH to re-educate me

ibarelycare

Katgurl wrote: »

well yes I did last week so I guess I am a total hypocrite

he's a really generous bloke and cool and nice so I guess absolute rules can be destructive

But LUCKILY I have AH to re-educate me

Ok, but I don't understand your "rules" (besides this guy that you slept with last week) because you seem to be contradicting yourself.

You said that by the time it gets to a dinner date you know you're going to have sex with him. You get dolled up, wear nice lingerie, etc. Yet, going by your (previous?) rules, if you set out on that date ready to have sex with him, and he didn't foot the entire bill, you wouldn't have sex with him?

Katgurl

ibarelycare wrote: »

Katgurl wrote: »

well yes I did last week so I guess I am a total hypocrite

he's a really generous bloke and cool and nice so I guess absolute rules can be destructive

But LUCKILY I have AH to re-educate me

Ok, but I don't understand your "rules" (besides this guy that you slept with last week) because you seem to be contradicting yourself.

You said that by the time it gets to a dinner date you know you're going to have sex with him. You get dolled up, wear nice lingerie, etc. Yet, going by your (previous?) rules, if you set out on that date ready to have sex with him, and he didn't foot the entire bill, you wouldn't have sex with him?

Correct


hence I called myself a hypocrite because it does contradict my previous posts. I was a teeny bit disappointed he didn't pick up the bill tbh plus he hadn't booked anywhere but I gave myself a talking to cop on in this situation because I know he's not tight and he's actually very gentlemanly and always walks me home / to taxi, plus he's usually thoughtful etc so in this case I thought my rules don't apply - he obv thought it was more casual arrangement ie. Let's get something to eat.

In short, there can be exceptions.

ibarelycare

Katgurl wrote: »

Correct


hence I called myself a hypocrite because it does contradict my previous posts. I was a teeny bit disappointed he didn't pick up the bill tbh plus he hadn't booked anywhere but I gave myself a talking to cop on in this situation because I know he's not tight and he's actually very gentlemanly and always walks me home / to taxi, plus he's usually thoughtful etc so in this case I thought my rules don't apply - he obv thought it was more casual arrangement ie. Let's get something to eat.

In short, there can be exceptions.

So your sex has to be bought?

pickarooney

ibarelycare wrote: »

Ok, but I don't understand your "rules" (besides this guy that you slept with last week) because you seem to be contradicting yourself.

You said that by the time it gets to a dinner date you know you're going to have sex with him. You get dolled up, wear nice lingerie, etc. Yet, going by your (previous?) rules, if you set out on that date ready to have sex with him, and he didn't foot the entire bill, you wouldn't have sex with him?

I'm sure there are many things that would prevent someone sleeping with a person they set out to bed (your date getting blind drunk, throwing up on you, telling racist jokes, having a cock...) so why is this fundamentally different?

ibarelycare

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm sure there are many things that would prevent someone sleeping with a person they set out to bed (your date getting blind drunk, throwing up on you, telling racist jokes, having a cock...) so why is this fundamentally different?

Those are completely different situations. Someone not paying for a date isn't a bad reflection on them. Katgurl is basically saying she withholds sex until someone pays for it.

booboo88

flanders1979 wrote: »

I find that strange. Even for something cheap like the cinema?

The guys Ive been with its always been dutch or like a fool, me paying

dark crystal

ibarelycare wrote: »

Those are completely different situations. Someone not paying for a date isn't a bad reflection on them. Katgurl is basically saying she withholds sex until someone pays for it.

For some women, the guy not offering to pay for the date is a bad reflection on them, though. Enough to put them off taking the relationship much further.

ibarelycare

dark crystal wrote: »

For some women, the guy not offering to pay for the date is a bad reflection on them, though. Enough to put them off taking the relationship much further.

Yeah this is what I don't understand though. Why is it a bad reflection on men if they don't pay? Why is it not a bad reflection on women if they don't pay?

dark crystal

ibarelycare wrote: »

Yeah this is what I don't understand though. Why is it a bad reflection on men if they don't pay? Why is it not a bad reflection on women if they don't pay?

Well it's been said by enough men on this thread that if a woman didn't cough up, they wouldn't be inclined to see her again either.

Katgurl

ibarelycare wrote: »

dark crystal wrote: »

For some women, the guy not offering to pay for the date is a bad reflection on them, though. Enough to put them off taking the relationship much further.

Yeah this is what I don't understand though. Why is it a bad reflection on men if they don't pay? Why is it not a bad reflection on women if they don't pay?

It could be. You could have an opinion "a lady always pays for first date" and lose interest in any woman who doesn't. Up to you.

Anyway I've kind of changed my mind. It is very nice to be treated and a great sign of good manners but doesn't necessarily mean he isn't a gentleman if he doesn't.

Katgurl

dark crystal wrote: »

ibarelycare wrote: »

Yeah this is what I don't understand though. Why is it a bad reflection on men if they don't pay? Why is it not a bad reflection on women if they don't pay?

Well it's been said by enough men on this thread that if a woman didn't cough up, they wouldn't be inclined to see her again either.

Well that's great, we can't all be compatible with everyone. You find the girls who like to go 50:50 all the time and I'll find the old-fashioned traditionalists and we will all get along fine.

ibarelycare

dark crystal wrote: »

Well it's been said by enough men on this thread that if a woman didn't cough up, they wouldn't be inclined to see her again either.

Yeah that's fair enough, but I'm directing my questions on this towards Katgurl because I'm struggling to see her point of view on the matter.

Katgurl

ibarelycare wrote: »

Katgurl wrote: »

Correct


hence I called myself a hypocrite because it does contradict my previous posts. I was a teeny bit disappointed he didn't pick up the bill tbh plus he hadn't booked anywhere but I gave myself a talking to cop on in this situation because I know he's not tight and he's actually very gentlemanly and always walks me home / to taxi, plus he's usually thoughtful etc so in this case I thought my rules don't apply - he obv thought it was more casual arrangement ie. Let's get something to eat.

In short, there can be exceptions.

So your sex has to be bought?

did you read my post?

pickarooney

ibarelycare wrote: »

Those are completely different situations. Someone not paying for a date isn't a bad reflection on them. Katgurl is basically saying she withholds sex until someone pays for it.

For you maybe. Others might see it as mean or lazy and a deal-breaker.

shopaholic01

I think it's sad that this is still an issue in 2012. I'm a woman and like most women (can imagine the comments here) I believe in equality, but unlike a lot of women I believe in equality in everything:D. On a date people should split regardless of who asked who out. A first date is a 'sampler', you may know after 10 mins that you won't see this person again so why should they pay for it all?

The tradition of men paying stems from a time when women weren't working or were earning very little. Today that has changed, in fact a lot of women are now earning more than men and more men are unemployed. Therefore should women not pay for the first date?

The idea that paying for a first date will 'get you the ride;)' is also outdated unless you're dating a lady/man of the night.

Split the bill, if you want sex go for it, if you don't don't.

I have friends and when we are out with in a group with males and females they never buy a round. They marvel the next day at how little money they've spent and how so and so (always male) was so generous they didn't have to put their hands in their pocket once. I would love to know what the poor guy thinks when he opens his decidely ligther wallet the next morning - and no they weren't looking for sex they are just nice guys, more interested in getting the next drink than who's paying for it.

So come on ladies just because L'oreal says you're worth it it isn't necessarily true! How would you feel if this 'rule' was reversed and you had to buy dinner, drinks all night and pay for a taxi every time you wanted to go on a 1st, 2nd or 3rd date:eek:?

ibarelycare

Katgurl wrote: »

did you read my post?

Ok, so your sex USED to have to be bought?

ibarelycare

pickarooney wrote: »

For you maybe. Others might see it as mean or lazy and a deal-breaker.

I think if people saw it like that then it only reflects badly on THEM, not the other person. If a woman is on a date with a man and he doesn't pay and that's the deal-breaker for her, then it's the woman who is the mean one!

Katgurl

ibarelycare wrote: »

dark crystal wrote: »

Well it's been said by enough men on this thread that if a woman didn't cough up, they wouldn't be inclined to see her again either.

Yeah that's fair enough, but I'm directing my questions on this towards Katgurl because I'm struggling to see her point of view on the matter.

I'm presuming you're male but if not please correct me. Have you ever gone on a date with someone when it's been leading up to sleeping together and you pick her up and take her to dinner and when she arrives she's clearly gone to loads and loads of trouble with her appearance and you've chosen the restaurant and booked it and planned where to go for a drink before - after? And then you discover she's gone to loads of trouble and effort with everything and it's kind of an occasion for you both?

Yes ok it shouldn't be expected that the guy should have to pay, i do see your point on that but under particular circumstances it's really really nice. And romantic. And it makes all the girls efforts feel appreciated.

And if he can't afford a restaurant go to a tapas bar or somewhere / anywhere he can afford.

Katgurl

ibarelycare wrote: »

Katgurl wrote: »

did you read my post?

Ok, so your sex USED to have to be bought?

it's more the effort and the old-fashioned charm.

I'm surprised at the outrage though because I never experience it in the real world and most guys / girls I know would be the same.

shopaholic01

Katgurl wrote: »

I'm presuming you're male but if not please correct me. Have you ever gone on a date with someone when it's been leading up to sleeping together and you pick her up and take her to dinner and when she arrives she's clearly gone to loads and loads of trouble with her appearance and you've chosen the restaurant and booked it and planned where to go for a drink before - after? And then you discover she's gone to loads of trouble and effort with everything and it's kind of an occasion for you both?

Yes ok it shouldn't be expected that the guy should have to pay, i do see your point on that but under particular circumstances it's really really nice. And romantic. And it makes all the girls efforts feel appreciated.

And if he can't afford a restaurant go to a tapas bar or somewhere / anywhere he can afford.

He has probably put a lot of effort into his appearance too so wouldn't it be nice if you paid especially because in your scenario he has done all the leg work and planning while you washed your hair and put on make up and nice clothes?

strobe

ibarelycare wrote: »

Those are completely different situations. Someone not paying for a date isn't a bad reflection on them. Katgurl is basically saying she withholds sex until someone pays for it.

Ahh c'mon now IBC, that's a little unfair. I jumped on the first post she made too but she seems to have clarified a little. She's not saying her sex has to be bought. I think she's just saying that the guy offering to buy the dinner for her would be something she'd find endearing or whatever and if she was already into him it'd clinch the deal, so to speak.

Lot's of people find different things a turn on and if the guy buying the dinner makes her feel desirable or appreciated or what have you, well I can understand that.

Of course I think she seems to do some odd extrapolations from that and views a guy not buying the dinner to indicate he doesn't desire or appreciate her as much as she would like (which most women would find a bit of a turn off, let's be honest.)

Forgive the amateur pop psychology and no offense meant by this at all Katgurl, but it sounds like that might stem from some self esteem issues on your part, maybe, whereby you need the re-assurance of the act of the guy buying the meal to help convince you he does desire/appreciate you enough and perhaps take the lack of that gesture overly personal. So maybe look at that, if I'm in the right ball park.

All IMO etc.

ibarelycare

Katgurl wrote: »

I'm presuming you're male but if not please correct me. Have you ever gone on a date with someone when it's been leading up to sleeping together and you pick her up and take her to dinner and when she arrives she's clearly gone to loads and loads of trouble with her appearance and you've chosen the restaurant and booked it and planned where to go for a drink before - after? And then you discover she's gone to loads of trouble and effort with everything and it's kind of an occasion for you both?

Yes ok it shouldn't be expected that the guy should have to pay, i do see your point on that but under particular circumstances it's really really nice. And romantic. And it makes all the girls efforts feel appreciated.

And if he can't afford a restaurant go to a tapas bar or somewhere / anywhere he can afford.

I'm a girl actually.


You're saying it's a nice occasion for you BOTH. What if he's gone to loads of trouble with his appearance too?

Regarding your (previous) rule about only having sex with him if he pays for dinner, I just want to break it down:

He does something nice for you by paying for dinner.

So you do something nice for him by having sex with him, right?

Do you not see what's wrong with that? Sex isn't a "reward" or something that is only nice for one person. Sex is something that should be mutually gratifying.


And what about making the guy feel appreciated? Just because a woman has a vagina why does that make her more deserving of being romanced?

stupidusername

I know where you're coming from IBC but I don't think you're going to get anywhere here.

Since I gave my original answer i've gained a boyfriend,and while I split everything to begin with,i'm rapidly becoming broke,because of how much we do stuff,and he has a good bit of money,as well as thinking very little of spending it on things he wants,so it's moved on to being uneven. I still pay a chunk,but if he wants to go to dinner and I can't afford it,he might say he'll pay. I don't expect it,i'm used to living within my means,and would be fine with staying in.so if he quite wants to go out and i'm sure he doesn't mind paying,we'll go.

It's the first time i've not been with a student,and I have to say it's nice not to have to worry about money so much.