A 250kg deadlift is nothing anymore

d'Oracle

There is a kid in my Gym.
At the weekend he pulled in the single lifts.

His PR I think is 230.
He pulled 220 and missed 225.
The record in his weight class (T3 83kg I think) is 225, I think.

When I mentioned the Deadlift championships next month his eyes lit up.
I think he might want to have a go at the record.
I can see no problem with that. Sure maybe the IPF Teen (he is over age for that) is 330. The Junior is 355.
The GPC is like 232.5 or something.

This dude entered the IDFPA because he wanted to see how he'd do and stack up.
If he does do the deadlift champs and pulls a record, for however long it lasts, he will be the guy who pulled the biggest deadlift at T3 and <83kg in the IDFPA.

He isn't competing with Benni, he isn't competing with "World Standard" he isn't competing with D. Kovacs.
He was competing drug free Raw and with other teenagers.

Maybe I don't have a right to say, but I really don't like this attitude that says you should only compete against yourself. Why like? If you are happy with that, cool, go for it.
Enter whatever competition comes your way for what ever reason and tell yourself that your medals or records mean nothing if that's how you feel.

I just don't see a difference between that and just showing up in the Gym one day and spending all day warming up and preparing for 3 attempts at each of the lifts. Maybe the buzz, sure. I wouldn't understand, the only buzz I have ever had from competing involved actual competition as in trying to better other competitors.

Just because some folks play the feds for medals and records doesn't mean all do.
If someone says "I'm second best deadlift in the world at 75kg" and you know they aren't because they wouldn't stand to smoke in another fed, that is not a symptom of a rot in powerlifting rather its a symptom of them either being unrealistic in their opinions or a bit of a douche.

But if someone sets a WR in one fed they have the WR in that fed. Its up to other people to break it. If someone holds the record they are entitled to be proud of that, IMO.

Formal competition is about who is the guy or team who finish on top on the day, not the guy who finished on top in a different competition on a different day.

If you really have a problem with calling something less than the biggest lift ever the world record, maybe stop supporting other feds and support the IPF. Cos at least then we have 1 fed in charge, like IWF in Weightlifting.

Hanley

squod wrote: »

From my perspective, I find it interesting. It shows the sport is still in some kind of 'growing up' state.

The way it is now the average athlete has lots of opportunity and therefore drive to try beat what ever fed's world record there is. I'm sure everyone knows to check in with powerlifting watch.com to see how they compare like for like.

If in ten years time the sport is unified I guarantee some of the magic will be lost.

Typed this last night but didn't get a chance to post, so here it is;

The sport will never be unified. It'll only fracture more. It gets worse each year - more Feds and more records!!

I don't know if the people claiming WRs without even being in spitting distance of the legit ones actually think they're truly world class or not. I really hope that isn't the case.

It's funny tho. If you track the all time raw records, they haven't moved much in the past couple of decades. That's suggest to me the sport has matured and like most sports records will only be beaten infrequently by tiny increments from now on - and that seems to hold thru.

Single ply-wise (ipf) the records continue to grow year on year, that's as much to do with advances in gear tech as it is learning how to train optimally for more carryover. But the top guys year on year tend to remain that way.

So at an absolute level, the limits of human performance are being touched. The accelerated gains and records falling are in shallower talent pools and newer federations. But they all effectively subscribe to the same rules of performance as the big boys. So why are they claiming world records?! If I set up the IAAF or IWF mk2 Feds tomorrow and started holding comps for the 100m or snatch "world record' I'd be laughed at. But that's exactly what's happening in PL.

g'em

I got two World Records at my very first Polwerlifting competition. Did I tell the world and its mother about them? Damn right I did, and why not!! Sure it was an achievement, albeit short-lived. Sure it didn't take long for them to be broken, and they're now considered fairly run of the mill numbers for advanced-elite level female lifters. I don't think I ever seriously considered myself "world-class" or any of that nonsense. I did consider myself pretty damn good though. But fcuk it, they were an achievement to me and I'll always be proud of it, I'm not going to martyr myself by saying "ah but it was only a small Fed *grumble grumble*" when to the average Joe Soap the fact that I'm a girl who lifted twice their bodyweight is abnormal. Now they mean nothing of course, not a jot, and I'd argue with anyone who tries telling me otherwise.

There is a case for arguing that WR in various Feds mean nothing but i honestly only think it means something to the people within that sport. I'd feel like a right prick telling someone with a record in any sport (especially a minority sport/ gender) that their achievements meant shag all in the grand scheme of things.

daveyc21

Powerlifting couldnt even be considered one sport. There is the entirely drug free, the grey areas (ipf etc.), non tested. Then you have raw, single ply, multi ply etc. There is even amateur and professional sections like boxing. The rules differ between each and it can be argued that each has its own merits. So why not have separate records.

Nobody would claim that rugby union and rugby league are any more or less relevant sports than each other even though they are essentially playing the same game. I wouldn't go up to a Olympic gold medal boxer and say well your achievement doesn't mean much because you would be owned over 12 rounds by a pro. A world record is a world record because that is the best that have been achieved by anyone under the conditions and rules presented. I could break the world 100m record from the early 20th century but put me back there on a cinder track in heavy leather shoes with no modern training etc. and it becomes a different story.

Basically a world record is a world record because its the best performance put up period. Everything else is just subjective what if's and conjecture.

Nervous Wreck

We still talkin records? Someone help me lift 250 pls.

marathonic

For this year, my target bodyweight is 182lbs (with <10% bodyfat). I'm currently at 175lbs (with 14% bodyfat).

This means I'm hoping to gain about 14lbs of muscle and lose 7lbs of fat - may take some of next year as well but that's a different topic.

For a bodyweight of 182lbs, I've read that ideal deadlifts for men are:

Untrained: 70kg
Novice: 125kg
Intermediate: 145kg
Advanced: 200kg
Elite: 250kg


Training periods for these levels are:

Novice: 3 - 9 months
Intermediate: < 2 years
Advanced: > 2 years
Elite: The top 1% of the training population

My max last year was the Intermediate level (145kg) and I would hope to hit Advanced level at some point next year. I don't intend to even attempt hitting 250kg.


Would I be correct in assumming that the above figures are still reasonably valid?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm one of those people that don't want to become 'too' big. When threads say that, it's usually from people that haven't lifted weights before and don't realise how difficult it is to become 'too' big. However, would it be reasonable to say that "I don't want to go beyond a 200kg deadlift because I don't want to get too big?". (the voice of inexperience here ).

NOTE: The above is regarding deadlift only but assume a squat, bench and o/h press in a reasonable enough proportion to the 200kg deadlift.

d'Oracle

The guy I was referring to in my post above is lighter than you and has been training for a year. He has pulled 230 in the gym. And he is FAR from too big.

And I'm not being pedantic here, they are not ideal figures, they are a set of expected standards.
Basically they are what Lon Kilgore and Mark Rippetoe expect to see from athletes at various stages of development along their own accepted model of strength development.

This is exactly why I hate those standards.
People look at them, not having any clue why they are there and use them as some sort of reference point.

Just train.
Like even the idea that you need to define strength standards for someone who is untrained is ludicrous.

Molly

Rippetoe has removed those standards from starting strength now.

ray jay

Yeah well he left out the most important lift anyway.

Mellor

Molly wrote: »

Rippetoe has removed those standards from starting strength now.

Why?
No longer accurate, or doesn't see the need to label novice, advanced etc

d'Oracle

I got the impression he was sick of people coming on his Q&A forum asking about them and people generally missing the point of them.
If you read any of the stuff himself and Kilgore put out, you will realise that those standards have nothing to do with how they define novice, intermediate and advanced.

marathonic

You make some good points d'Oracle and, looking back on my post, I realise how stupid it was. I mean, why say "I don't want to go beyond a 200kg deadlift because I don't want to get too big"? It makes no sense.

Better to say "I don't want to go beyond Xkg because I don't want to get too big".

If I were to consider 85kg to be the goal, why limit myself to a 200kg deadlift if, through additional training, I can achieve a 250kg+ deadlift at that weight - likewise for the other lifts.

d'Oracle

marathonic wrote: »

If I were to consider 85kg to be the goal, why limit myself to a 200kg deadlift if, through additional training, I can achieve a 250kg+ deadlift at that weight - likewise for the other lifts.

Exactly.
Chances are, (and I'm assuming a bit here) that what you consider to be "too big" takes a long time and a lot of concentrated effort to get to. It won't happen by accident.

I know a couple of lads who have either pulled or can pull 3xBW or near enough and I reckon that unless you consider David Beckham to be big, you won't consider them to be too big.

Mellor

d'Oracle wrote: »

.
If you read any of the stuff himself and Kilgore put out, you will realise that those standards have nothing to do with how they define novice, intermediate and advanced.

that was my point. He didn't want to liable a novice by what he can lift, but rather what a novice actually is.